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Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
I wasn't talking about Obama. When you create links, that's the summary that shows up automatically. The incident I was pointing to from that article is when Bernie revealed that he incorrectly believed most people who sell drugs are Black. Furthermore, he said this to Ferguson activists as an explanation/defense for why Black people are disproportionately incarcerated for drug offenses. And when they tried to correct his misapprehension, he was resistant.

I can understand why that would sound problematic for a number of reasons but i want to give my best argument so please indulge me for a moment if you would.

Going back to why Sanders people in particular are defensive of this kind of thing for a moment(not going to dispute the claims of him not fully thinking about his phrasing before speaking),the claim in question from the reporting is that Sanders believes and claimed that drug incarceration rates are disproportionate because "most people who sell drugs are black", when that is the exact opposite of what he has historically believed for the past 30+ years




Its clearly something that he doesnt think, so the narrative that the guy is a closet racist or bigot is clearly unfounded. Yes he could phrase his wording better, but its clearly being taken out of context to create a narrative that doesnt exist. Does Sanders 'understand' what normal black people go through or other people of color? Not in the least. But then, none of the people in this race or most of Washington understood us or what we go through, even the black politicians, so its a low bar to clear. He's better on it by far than pretty much anyone else, and that's what matters to me.

Its especially terrible coming from many of the same people who try to push the "joe will be joe" narrative when he actually has a HUGE detrimental record with black people and other minorities and an actual history of doubling down on these statements and actions he's done. Or Warren who tries to claim Native American DNA when she has not a care to spare for the actual rights of the people of standing rock even when they are having their rights infringed. Same goes for Mayor Pete, Kamala Harris, and the other candidates.

The narrative is, Sanders is "uniquely bad on race", and that's just wrong.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,274
I'll try to present an objective account of this meeting, and you can form a conclusion based on this

According to Sam (who was at the meeting), Bernie did not say specifically that, but pretty much said that.



Bernie said he misspoke, but also learned a lot from the meeting. He concluded that the US has a racist criminal justice system, though I feel that he's always had that view based on his history. Since I've known activists in the past, a common sentiment that I remember hearing is that they stated the CIA planted many drugs in black communities, which further destroyed those same communities. I'm more inclined to believe that, that was Bernie's intention given his history on the subject. I'm of the belief that Bernie was corrected on the subject that despite that, there are an equal amount of White drug dealers, but instead get less focus because of the racists policing in the US.

To give further context, Bernie also said this during Clinton's Crime Bill time. To make clear, Bernie also voted for the Crime Bill despite vocally expressing his negative attitude towards it (in stark contrast to Biden, and Hillary who said it was a well thought out bill while referring to POC as super predators). Many people rightfully call him out on that vote. He said he voted for the bill because the domestic violence against women act was added to it, and didn't want to oppose that politically.



From what I gather, Sam supports both Bernie and Warren this election cycle, though it seems he was a Clinton supporter as evidenced by his defense of Hillary, while correctly calling out Bernie's own words on the policing problem the US has. Looks like he is also of the opinion that people should instead focus their efforts on taking down Biden, and more importantly the Ukraine situation.

According to Brittany Packnett Cunningham (who was also there):



If there's one thing Bernie is, it's that he's blunt, so I can believe this. I can also believe that there was no real malice, just a lack of sensitivity (and some ignorance). As far as his crime bill vote goes... yes he has expressed dismay over voting for it, however he later went on to support various other legislation that helped to further empower preventive policing, and police militarization. He also referenced those various votes during his senate reelection campaign. Bernie is a politician after all and contradiction sometimes comes with that.
 
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neon/drifter

Shit Shoe Wasp Smasher
Member
Apr 3, 2018
4,062
Are y'all progressives still arguing about this? Eyes on the prize people, this is small beans compared to THE REST OF OUR FUCKING LIVES.

Ahem. I mean like, the supreme court, the gop majority, etc...

Bernie or Warren. We gotta get one of em through. We're still buddies. We got this.
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,990
I'd be fine with her statement that it was a private conversation which she doesn't want to discuss further, except the campaign subsequently sent out fundraising emails like this:

EOV4zw_X4AExOgD


And tweets like this:



Which are clearly attempts to benefit off of the narrative that the story has created. The campaign wants to have it both ways: not face a damaging direct fight with Sanders over what was said, but do fundraising off of the implications.


almost seems planned.
 

KidAAlbum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,177
According to Brittany Packnett Cunningham (who was also there):


If there's one thing Bernie is, it's that he's blunt, so I can believe this. I can also believe that there was no real malice, just a lack of sensitivity (and some ignorance). As far as his crime bill vote goes... yes he has expressed dismay over voting for it, however he later went on to support various other legislation that helped to further empower preventive policing, and police militarization. He also referenced those various votes during his senate reelection campaign. Bernie is a politician after all and contradiction sometimes comes with that.
She is pretty much saying the same as Sam, who is part of Campaign Zero and was in the room.
 

Odrion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,148
Are y'all progressives still arguing about this? Eyes on the prize people, this is small beans compared to THE REST OF OUR FUCKING LIVES.

Ahem. I mean like, the supreme court, the gop majority, etc...

Bernie or Warren. We gotta get one of em through. We're still buddies. We got this.
That's not where their values lie.
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,942
Are y'all progressives still arguing about this? Eyes on the prize people, this is small beans compared to THE REST OF OUR FUCKING LIVES.

Ahem. I mean like, the supreme court, the gop majority, etc...

Bernie or Warren. We gotta get one of em through. We're still buddies. We got this.

I get the impression that a lot of people aren't Progressives as much as they're Bernie Sanders fans. That's the only way I can personally explain a lot of things at least.
 
Are y'all progressives still arguing about this? Eyes on the prize people, this is small beans compared to THE REST OF OUR FUCKING LIVES.

Ahem. I mean like, the supreme court, the gop majority, etc...

Bernie or Warren. We gotta get one of em through. We're still buddies. We got this.
I can't take anybody who is legitimately angry about this seriously. This all feels like another silly work is happening and it's baffling that anybody could not notice how transparent it all is.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,019
I get the impression that a lot of people aren't Progressives as much as they're Bernie Sanders fans. That's the only way I can personally explain a lot of things at least.
or they have been against bernie for roughly 5 years and are all to eager to jump on him at every opportunity.
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,942
or they have been against bernie for roughly 5 years and are all to eager to jump on him at every opportunity.

You're misinterpreting my comment. I'm saying that I get the impression that some people are more so Bernie fans first, and adhere to Progressive policies by proxy, than they are Progressives who've merely latched onto Bernie as their champion to views they already hold.
 
Dec 6, 2018
574
Do people outside of Era and Twitter care about this? I know the debate was yesterday and all but the news cycle just keeps going and the past 24 hours has already provided much more noteworthy stories.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,019
You're misinterpreting my comment. I'm saying that I get the impression that some people are more so Bernie fans first, and adhere to Progressive policies by proxy, than they are Progressives who've latched onto Bernie due to his policies overlapping with their own.
Yes I could have written that better but what I mean is, while there are Bernie fans like you describe here. There are also quite a few people on this board who have since we were all on the other board, despised Bernie.
Do people outside of Era and Twitter care about this? I know the debate was yesterday and all but the news cycle just keeps going and the past 24 hours has already provided much more noteworthy stories.
People outside of Era seem to be talking more about the latest Epstein revelations now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,106
this is the most benign, nothing burger scandal I've ever bore witness to

There's literal mafia business being carried out in the White house, and people are turning blue on 30 pages of this shit and falling for Russian signal boosting.
 

papermoon

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,907
I can understand why that would sound problematic for a number of reasons but i want to give my best argument so please indulge me for a moment if you would.

Going back to why Sanders people in particular are defensive of this kind of thing for a moment(not going to dispute the claims of him not fully thinking about his phrasing before speaking),the claim in question from the reporting is that Sanders believes and claimed that drug incarceration rates are disproportionate because "most people who sell drugs are black", when that is the exact opposite of what he has historically believed for the past 30+ years




Its clearly something that he doesnt think, so the narrative that the guy is a closet racist or bigot is clearly unfounded. Yes he could phrase his wording better, but its clearly being taken out of context to create a narrative that doesnt exist. Does Sanders 'understand' what normal black people go through or other people of color? Not in the least. But then, none of the people in this race or most of Washington understood us or what we go through, even the black politicians, so its a low bar to clear. He's better on it by far than pretty much anyone else, and that's what matters to me.

Its especially terrible coming from many of the same people who try to push the "joe will be joe" narrative when he actually has a HUGE detrimental record with black people and other minorities and an actual history of doubling down on these statements and actions he's done. Or Warren who tries to claim Native American DNA when she has not a care to spare for the actual rights of the people of standing rock even when they are having their rights infringed. Same goes for Mayor Pete, Kamala Harris, and the other candidates.

The narrative is, Sanders is "uniquely bad on race", and that's just wrong.

I appreciate you making your case. I'm not calling Bernie a "closet racist or bigot." Like pretty much everybody - even those with the best intentions - his world view is informed by society's biases and there are gaps in his knowledge, empathy, life experience, etc. That's not to damn him. Like I said before, I believe he's a good person.

I posted this Bernie quote, because there's so much outraged disbelief that Bernie would ever say something like a woman can't win in 2020. That it's the impossibility of all impossibilities. Well actually, it's possible, especially under the stressful, emotional conditions of trying to convince a friend not to run for president in 2020. Bernie says some wild shit once in while. "A woman can't win" in 2020 is relatively mild. From a human perspective, it's understandable he'd be trying to throw whatever he could into trying to dissuade Warren from running. Yes, he wanted Liz to run in the 2016 presidential race, but 2020 is a different election. By 2018, Bernie had a plausibility and viability as a candidate that he didn't have in 2014 or 2015 as a relatively unknown Senator from Vermont. All credit to him for the work he put into building his campaign and movement in 2016. But he didn't want the competition in 2020. And I understand.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Yes I could have written that better but what I mean is, while there are Bernie fans like you describe here. There are also quite a few people on this board who have since we were all on the other board, despised Bernie.

Bernie's not entitled to be liked, and many have given good reasons why they support Warren while maintaining that Bernie didn't have to be ell incarnate for this to occur. There's nuance here you're ignoring when it comes to him. It's not like Bernie is immune from saying something problematic and poorly phrased every so often.

"You know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American."
 

Gyro Zeppeli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,289
I'd like to think that Bernie has in mind for AOC to someday become president because she makes no compromises and has a bold agenda.
 

Figgles

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,568
Bernie came planned too, his campaign said as much.

He came prepared to defend himself from the bullshit pouring out of the Warren camp. She came prepared to distance herself from the "anonymous" sources, give a non-answer, then make a couple of remarks to pump her and Klobuchar in an attempt to paint Bernie as sexist on the sly.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,019
Bernie's not entitled to be liked, and many have given good reasons why they support Warren while maintaining that Bernie didn't have to be ell incarnate for this to occur. There's nuance here you're ignoring when it comes to him.
Didn't say he was.I support Warren and Bernie. Just like his policies a touch more.
I can't believe that after the debate Warren told Sanders the truth about Epstein
And I can't believe how many people on twitter treat Epstein as a victim like
"EptEiN diDn't KilL hImSelF
33f947a98111946ca172a1da38bc20b1.jpg
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
"I think you called me a liar on national TV," Warren can be heard saying.

"What?" Sanders responded.

"I think you called me a liar on national TV," she repeated.

"You know, let's not do it right now. If you want to have that discussion, we'll have that discussion," Sanders said, to which Warren replied, "Anytime."

"You called me a liar," Sanders continued. "You told me -- all right, let's not do it now."

 
CNN published audio of the exchange
OP
OP
chadskin

chadskin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,013




But sound of the moment was caught by CNN's microphones and found Wednesday.

"I think you called me a liar on national TV," Warren can be heard saying.

"What?" Sanders responded.

"I think you called me a liar on national TV," she repeated.

"You know, let's not do it right now. If you want to have that discussion, we'll have that discussion," Sanders said, to which Warren replied, "Anytime."

"You called me a liar," Sanders continued. "You told me -- all right, let's not do it now."
 
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