Was Horizon Zero Dawn ever bested on a visual level?

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,403
Barcelona Spain
What a shitty thread full of hyperbole, there is no choice all the game use PS4/XB1 as base console.

RDR2 is THE game with the biggest production value and by far because more than 3000 peoples in the credit.

For example discreet LOD we use currently is mostly production value.


This is not a technical system like continuous LOD.

After every games has strong point and weakness depending if what they try to do. HZD and Sony tends to have tons of polygon details at short and mid range but not always the better on shader side. HZD has great VFX too. RDR2 shading is globally better than HZD too.

RDR2 has great unified volumetric system and great lighting better than HZD but lighting is improve in Death Stranding out the photorealistic style.

After it is more a matter of art direction.
 
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Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,159
My problem with RDR2 is that if I want to look at real life I’d look out the window.

Horizon on a giant 4K HDR screen is like an out of body experience. It’s more than real life.
"If I want to look at real life id look at the window" is such an agressively stupid thing to say. The world as presented by Red Dead doesn't exist not just because of the time period but also because it looks like a film. Real life does not look like a film. From the constant picture perfect lighting, color correction and other pp, to the look of skin, , hair, clothing, guns, vehicles, etc.
 

Serious Sam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,806








Yep.. this game is still the king of open world games this gen.. RDR2 is close second but this game is insane and 1.5 years older than RDR2.
Hmm you are comparing highly stylized, over-saturated fantastical world to RDR2's gritty realistic world. I think it mostly comes down to personal preference, but purely from technical achievement in graphics nothing comes close to RDR2 right now.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,403
Barcelona Spain
"If I want to look at real life id look at the window" is such an agressively stupid thing to say. The world as presented by Red Dead doesn't exist not just because of the time period but also because it looks like a film. Real life does not look like a film. From the constant picture perfect lighting, color correction and other pp, to the look of skin, , hair, clothing, guns, vehicles, etc.
People underestimates the input of artist and tech artists in the quality of visual.
 

Rion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,348
What a shitty thread full of hyperbole, there is no choice all the game use PS4/XB1 as base console.

RDR2 is THE game with the biggest production value and by far because more than 3000 peoples in the credit.

For example discreet LOD we use currently is mostly production value.


This is not a technical system like continuous LOD.

After every games has strong point and weakness depending if what they try to do. HZD and Sony tends to have tons of polygon details at short and mid range but not always the better on shader side. HZD has great VFX too. RDR2 shading is globally better than HZD too.

RDR2 has great unified volumetric system and great lighting better than HZD but lighting is improve in Death Stranding out the photorealistic style.

After it is more a matter of art direction.
Will LOD issues completely disappear next gen due to the massive increase in CPU compute and storage speeds?
 

Rei Toei

Member
Nov 8, 2017
582
Horizon Zero Dawn is pretty amazing for base PS4. It's pretty interesting reading how they got it to look "unnaturally" good at all times.




Although for me, playing RDR2 on PC with a 2080 Ti at high resolution & framerates takes the cake. It just looks fucking insane. The IQ is crisp as fuck and it looks amazing. Same as Forza Horizon 4 on PC which is stunning too, especially for an open-world racing game.
I love how they implemented this. At times TW3 and DG achieve the same in certain areas/moments, but HZD consistently gives you that larger then life experience.

If someone ever does a LOTR open world game, I hope they look at Guerilla's approach for inspiration.
 

GrigioLupus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3
What exactly makes these games clearly better on a technical level? I think people tend to forget that Horizon features massive creatures battling each other with lots of special effects on screen and rather fast gameplay. Neither RDR2 or Death Stranding offer something on that scale.
RDR 2 has a living, breathing world full of interactable NPCs and wildlife meanwhile outside of the creatures you've mentioned, HZD feels pretty lifeless and very "gamey"
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
379
- Death Stranding
- Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy
- The Order 1886
- God of War
- RDR 2
- And I prefer Dark Souls 3 or Sekiro's art.

Horizon is a little rough in my opinion.
 
Oct 24, 2019
1,413
Kind of a weird question since it never beat The Order 1886 or Uncharted 4 to begin with.

But yes, Death Stranding, God of War, and Red Dead Redemption 2 all subsequently beat it
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,081
Horizon has a very pretty world, but the character models look so consistently awful that it falls behind something like Red Dead 2 pretty much immediately. Seriously, the dialogue scenes and character animations are embarrassing.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,607
Let’s wait until it’s actually out to make that claim - which you’re basing of a single gif??!!

Horse behavior and control in Red Dead 2 is leagues beyond anything I’ve ever seen. They’re not just cars you hop on and drive.
People say the darndest things sometimes.











I can say with confidence and complete certainty that the depiction of horses in Ghost of Tsushima isn't going to be even remotely close to RDR2's. Because why would it be. Only game that is ever going to best RDR2 in this department is going to be RDR3.
 

zma1013

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,877
RDR2 beats it out and I'd argue God of War does as well. Horizon has some visual blemishes that hold it back, such as stiff robotic animations for human characters and below average water that simply does not hold up to the rest of the great visuals in the game. Like seriously, the water is so static and the cubemap on the lake just doesn't cut it. It clashes with everything else, like it's out of a different game or something.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,022
But all the other parts in those games are on par, or better than, Horizon, so yes. Yes it does.
No they're not and no it doesn't.

The fact The Order is a linear game in cramped environments and needs two black bars to make the screen smaller to achieve what it does disqualifies it more than the facial animations in Horizon. If it's on par and needs those things to be on par, it's not as good.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,081
One single aspect of the game doesn't get rid of all the other parts though, as much as you want it to.
Normally this would be true but the faces and facial animations are so uniquely bad that they DO kind of act as a blemish that drags the entire game down, especially when its chief visual competitors don't suffer from the same kinds of issues expressing their characters.
 
Oct 24, 2019
1,413
No they're not and no it doesn't.

The fact The Order is a linear game in cramped environments and needs two black bars to make the screen smaller to achieve what it does disqualifies it more than the facial animations in Horizon. If it's on par and needs those things to be on par, it's not as good.
I don't understand that point at all. Horizon has objectively rocky facial animations in comparison to its direct counterparts.

The things you're criticizing are stylistic choices, not technical limitations.

Not the same thing at all, and I think you know that
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,022
I don't understand that point at all. Horizon has objectively rocky facial animations in comparison to its direct counterparts.

The things you're criticizing are stylistic choices, not technical limitations.

Not the same thing at all, and I think you know that
If you think those things are "stylistic choices" then there's no point even having this discussion... lol.
 
Oct 24, 2019
1,413
Normally this would be true but the faces and facial animations are so uniquely bad that they DO kind of act as a blemish that drags the entire game down, especially when its chief visual competitors don't suffer from the same kinds of issues expressing their characters.
Exactly. Horizon's rubbery robo-faces were pretty jarring when compared to how beautiful the rest of the game was. The other games I listed have superb facial animations, do I don't understand how you can even put them all in the same category
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,022
Normally this would be true but the faces and facial animations are so uniquely bad that they DO kind of act as a blemish that drags the entire game down, especially when its chief visual competitors don't suffer from the same kinds of issues expressing their characters.
It's true now, if the facial animations disqualify it then the black bars and closed environments disqualify The Order.

It's good that neither things do, and just become negative marks when we make the overall comparisons..
 
Oct 24, 2019
1,413
If you think those things are "stylistic choices" then there's no point even having this discussion... lol.
Rather than just trying to get the last word and slink away, I'd prefer you to actually explain in what way being a linear game is a technical limitation.

Guerilla didn't *choose* to have rubbery human faces with jilted animation because they thought it would look cool. That's just straight up a flaw in their work.

Making a game linear is just a matter of how you want the game to play and the pacing of the story.
 
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DvdGzz

Member
Mar 21, 2018
1,626
If we're talking art style, Dark Souls 3 is the best looking game I've seen. I just love the vistas, so much.
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,553
The Vastness in RDR 2 and Death Stranding is way better than in HZD. However, HZD has better vegetation imo. Forests are extremely dense with all kind of plants, insects and animals and they aren't simple 2d textures like in many other games. Each tree looks like it's its own eco system like you learn in text books.
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
379
No they're not and no it doesn't.

The fact The Order is a linear game in cramped environments and needs two black bars to make the screen smaller to achieve what it does disqualifies it more than the facial animations in Horizon. If it's on par and needs those things to be on par, it's not as good.
So if we are talking about all the features included in a game, RDR 2 is twice the champion.

But seriously, Death Stranding, Uncharted 4 and God of Wars are way better in animation, technical graphics and design.
Horizon is a little rough but with some cool light effects. I didn't finish it, but from what I played the world's layout seemed very artificial, almost like a linear game made to look like an open world. Maybe it gets better, but I have confidence it won't be as natural as Death Stranding or RDR2's worlds.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,403
Barcelona Spain
Horizon has a very pretty world, but the character models look so consistently awful that it falls behind something like Red Dead 2 pretty much immediately. Seriously, the dialogue scenes and character animations are embarrassing.
Cutscene facial animation is unequal, some main story scene looks ok. After it progresses a lot in Frozen Wild and it was something not well done in the engine. Kojima productions helped a lot to improve it and the other part is HZD will probably have a bigger animation budget than HZD, it is a successful franchise.

But the character models are great.



This NPC is not someone in a quest but a random NPC



The Vastness in RDR 2 and Death Stranding is way better than in HZD. However, HZD has better vegetation imo. Forests are extremely dense with all kind of plants, insects and animals and they aren't simple 2d textures like in many other games. Each tree looks like it's its own eco system like you learn in text books.

GDC presentation about the vegetation system. It is great, very funny they wanted to have a fully polygonal vegetation with full interaction with Aloy system before the release of PS4, they created the system but when they tried it on PS4 it took the full-frame performance and it was impossible to do something else.



EDIT: Asset quality is very good most of the time

 
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hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,808
Jordan
Why do people act like pc don't exist? Many games look better than it on a high end pc with better shadows, post processing effects, aa, draw distance, etc.

On consoles though, it is top 5 for sure.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,022
Rather than just trying to get the last word and slink away, I'd prefer you to actually explain in what way being a linear game is a technical limitation.

Guerilla didn't *choose* to have rubbery human faces with jilted animation because they thought it would look cool. That's just straight up a flaw in their work.

Making a game linear is just a matter of how you want the game to play and the pacing of the story.
I don't know why this needs to be explained, a linear game is easier to hit higher fidelity than open world. So when an open world game is mostly on par it is a bigger feat. This isn't really that surprising given that ZD is a later game.

And nice glossing over the black bars.

So if we are talking about all the features included in a game, RDR 2 is twice the champion.

But seriously, Death Stranding, Uncharted 4 and God of Wars are way better in animation, technical graphics and design.
Horizon is a little rough but with some cool light effects. I didn't finish it, but from what I played the world's layout seemed very artificial, almost like a linear game made to look like an open world. Maybe it gets better, but I have confidence it won't be as natural as Death Stranding or RDR2's worlds.
I agree with you. Horizon is not the best, it's just better than The Order.
 

Onikage

Member
Feb 21, 2018
379
Why do people act like pc don't exist? Many games look better than it on a high end pc with better shadows, post processing effects, aa, draw distance, etc.

On consoles though, it is top 5 for sure.
I'm always shocked with those PC videos of RDR 2 in 4k with ray tracing.
It is truly next gen, best thing I ever saw so far.
 
Oct 24, 2019
1,413
I don't know why this needs to be explained, a linear game is easier to hit higher fidelity than open world. So when an open world game is mostly on par it is a bigger feat. This isn't really that surprising given that ZD is a later game.

And nice glossing over the black bars.
We've primarily been talking about facial animations during zoomed in dialogue and cutscenes. I'm not sure how the scope of the game world is pertinent there. What is there to gloss over? They were aiming for a cinematic look and feel for their game, both in terms of resolution and presentation, the black bars helped them achieve that. They could have settled for a very pretty, less cinematic looking game without black bars, but they opted for a jaw-dropping, more cinematic looking gaming with black bars. It was a stylistic choice.

I agree with you. Horizon is not the best, it's just better than The Order.
In your first reply to me, you said Horizon beats Uncharted 4. Which (imo) is a laughable assertion
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,022
We've primarily been talking about facial animations during zoomed in dialogue and cutscenes. I'm not sure how the scope of the game world is pertinent there. What is there to gloss over? They were aiming for a cinematic look and feel for their game, both in terms of resolution and presentation, the black bars helped them achieve that. They could have settled for a very pretty, less cinematic looking game without black bars, but they opted for a jaw-dropping, more cinematic looking gaming with black bars. It was a stylistic choice.
If you think the black bars are a "stylistic choice" then you bought the PR spin... I mean you even say it yourself: they needed to use them to achieve the visuals they were aiming for. That itself IS a black mark against the overall presentation.

In your first reply to me, you said Horizon beats Uncharted 4. Which (imo) is a laughable assertion
I think you need to read my original post again then... I said it was debatable.

"Laughable assertion", do you speak like this IRL?
 
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Micerider

Member
Nov 11, 2017
45
I can easily say that I have seen things even more impressive either at a macro level (RDR2) or micro level (The Order 1886, Uncharted 4 + Lost Legacy). But there is a cohesion to Horizon that makes it special, the technical aspect is clean and ambitious, but there is also a strong sense of diversity and vistas in the art-style. There are so many moments I was just in awe while wandering in the desert during the golden hours, or seeing the moon shine through the lush foliage at night or those mecha-dinos towering in all their glory. RDR2 is sublime, but it being more "grounded" left less space for bewilderment in my eyes.

I would say that this is the game that left me the strongest visual mark this generation, even though I easily admit that it has competition surpassing it in many respects otherwise.

Still, a stand-out game, I would find it dubious if anyone would take it out of this gen's graphical top 10.
 
Oct 24, 2019
1,413
If you think the black bars are a "stylistic choice" then you bought the PR spin... I mean you even say it yourself: they needed to use them to achieve the visuals they were aiming for. That itself IS a black mark against the overall presentation.


I think you need to read my original post again then... I said it was debatable.
No, because as The Evil Within 1 demonstrates, you can use black bars and still run like shit. The Evil Within clearly used them more for aesthetic purposes to make it feel more like an actual horror movie rather than as a raw power booster. RaD just happened to use the black bars as both a power booster AND a means to lend their game more cinematic flair.

So first you say Horizon beats Uncharted 4. Then in the next sentence you say it's debatable. Then a couple minutes later you concede to someone else that Horizon does not beat Uncharted 4. Glad we're finally on the same page there at least.

"Laughable assertion", do you speak like this IRL?
Intelligently and with good word choice? Yes, yes I do
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,022
No, because as The Evil Within 1 demonstrates, you can use black bars and still run like shit. The Evil Within clearly used them more for aesthetic purposes to make it feel more like an actual horror movie rather than as a raw power booster. RaD just happened to use the black bars as both a power booster AND a means to lend their game more cinematic flair.

So first you say Horizon beats Uncharted 4. Then in the next sentence you say it's debatable. Then a couple minutes later you concede to someone else that Horizon does not beat Uncharted 4. Glad we're finally on the same page there at least.
What another game does is beside the point, The Order used black bars because it had to. They spun it as "stylistic" to sell it.

And I didn't say what you think I did to the other person....

Horizon > The Order, definitely.
Horizon > other games? Debatable.

Intelligently and with good word choice? Yes, yes I do
Lol...
 

Kamaros

Member
Aug 29, 2018
1,198
Uncharted 4's incredible wind physics still does it for me ... Gorgeous looking game.

https://imgur.com/a/RW0os
this is just mind boggling.

I thought RDR2 might be the winner, but then Death Stranding went and flipped the whole game around. Only games I’m looking at now for this gen are FFVIIR and The Last of Us Part 2 where I think a lot of people are underestimating Naughty Dog in this aspect.
FF7 is really shaping up to be a benchmark in all aspects and TLOU2 is ND, i love when people underestimate ND, every new game is this hehe.