Watched Dragonball GT. Why does everyone suck

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,117
I can't say that my expectations were high, but my thinking was that GT would probably be most like the Z movies. Overly derivative, maybe a bit more generic and formula, but still having a lot of cool action sequences. Instead, the thing that struck me most is just how dedicated the show seemed to be to making sure every character that isn't Kid Goku fails to impress.




Pan is introduced fighting crime, then spends three quarters of the series crying. It's like they took Videl, but instead of just benching her, they drag her out into the open so you're constantly reminded of how useless she's become.

The "why does everyone suck" question doesn't even really apply here because the producer said outright that Pan's role is for Goku to save her.




Trunks is really just aggressively mediocre. He's set up as the smart guy and does some smart guy stuff, but then he becomes one of Baby's victims and the show kind of forgets about him. I can barely remember anything he did by the end.




General Rilldo is probably the character that gets the best moments in the series just because of his fight as Meta-Rilldo. He's got an interesting power set as a Dragonball villain. But it's like the show just gets bored of him, so it just skips the conclusion of the fight with him and moves on. Everyone goes to see Baby's introduction even though Rilldo's still farting around outside. Then he gets blown away in two seconds while they're going on to the next planet.




This man doesn't even get himself involved in the main plotline and he still dies. He spends all his time getting nagged by his wife and kid, and then he gets killed by his brother-in-law.




As the reincarnation of Dragonball Z's ultimate villain and seemingly possessing his power, it seems like a fair assumption that Uub would be one of the most powerful members of the group. He trains with Goku at the beginning, but only gets his first real fight in the Baby saga... where he's immediately defeated and has to fuse because he's already irrelevant. Then he ends up getting his attack reversed and turned into candy, but it's okay because he told us he meant to do that afterward.




Honestly, I kind of like the SSJ4 design, so I was a little hyped to see it. I think this form did well against Baby Vegeta? I barely even remember. But then then Baby Vegeta turns into a Great Ape and it becomes a big dragged out stalemate, and SSJ4 Goku gets beaten so badly that he needs his friends to give him a Saiya Power infusion. That in itself wouldn't be too bad, but the form goes on to lose against just about every other villain, including a member of the jobber squad (Rage Shenron).




Super 17's brief period of success seems to be entirely based on the fact that SSJ4 Goku is too stupid to stop using ki attacks on him even after he's realized that they don't work. He ends up getting killed by one punch-kamehameha combo from base form Kid Goku when Android 16 distracts him for a minute. If I haven't miscounted, he only survives for four episodes.




One things I knew going in was that Vegeta gets a new signature move. I can dig it; in the manga Vegeta never calls the same move twice, so I think this is one area where GT is an outright better successor series than Super. Except the show can't resist its urge to make everything suck, so after being sidelined or possessed for half the show, Vegeta shows off a new move and it doesn't even work. He comes back the next arc after his wife builds him a machine so he can gameshark his way to the latest Super Saiyan form, except he has to suggest fusion right away because his new form's already irrelevant.




He gets wrecked early on in his fight, which doesn't help, but most of it is okay. The way he's finally totally defeated deserves special mention though. A battle-weary Kid Goku charges up a Spirit Bomb and throws it at him. Okay, the Spirit Bomb is a powerful move and it's defeated villains before, that much isn't unusual. But it also has a huge glaringly obvious weakness in that Goku needs to hold himself in a position where he's completely defenseless for a while in order to use it. Omega Shenron somehow can't overcome this problem. He isn't being distracted by anyone else, he isn't too worn out to fight, his attacks just inexplicably don't work. He's attacking a defenseless, injured child and can't pull it off.




shit sandwich
 
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TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
3,940
Everybody says z is the goku show, despite that being factually not true

Gt has a chance for great aide characters and villains, but as you say makes them all useless just to show how cool goku is
 
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L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,117
Everybody says z is the goku show, despite that being factually not true

Gt has a chance for great aide characters and villains, but as you say makes them all useless just to show how cool goku is
Z is probably the least Goku show of all of them. He gets beaten partway through the fight with Vegeta and his friends/son have to finish the job, he only appears in the Namek saga at the end, he's out of commission for big parts of the Cell saga and then steps down..

I think GT might be the worst in that regard. Super might be Goku and Vegeta, but at least that's two people.
 

Ariashadow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,631
I think they didn't plan to make it the Goku show and actually wanted to use the other characters, but Toei was like nah. Some stuff the wanted to do was SSJ Pan and a dramatic entrance for Gohans return as a fighter, or at least i remember reading that a while ago
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,741
Probably because everything about GT sucks. The story, the fights, the animation and the lack of discernible logic in the way things progress. The worst part is that the animation is mostly bland and forgettable outside the Rildo fights.

When Super does better animation better than you in its BOG arc you know there's a problem.
 

PSqueak

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,403
What happened is GT tried to go back to the more whimsical adventures seen on the OG dragonball, but people who jumped into the show on Z were absolutely confused about it.

Take in account that Toriyama was basically roped into doing this when he had wanted to end the franchise like 3 arcs earlier and you get something no one is truly satisfied with.
 

Mewn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,956
UK
GT is utter tripe. It has no real direction, sidelines everyone not called Goku, and it doesn't even have good fights.

SSJ4 is pretty cool though.
 

brinstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
It's so bland lol. I saw this show as it was airing in Japan as a kid and wondered wtf was going on. They managed to underdeliver on almost every possible aspect.

Pan deserved better
 

MysticGon

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,841
What they did to Uub was unforgivable. I like how Toriyama keeps trying to pass the torch but Toei is like "fuck you, the show is actually called Goku and all the rest"
 

Kegels

Member
Jan 24, 2019
1,967
Baby scared the hell out of me when I was young. Never saw Gt, went to a random episode and this blob goes into Trunks, takes over him, then rants about Saiyan power. Couldn’t do it
 

PSqueak

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,403
It's so bland lol. I saw this show as it was airing in Japan as a kid and wondered wtf was going on. They managed to underdeliver on almost every possible aspect.

Pan deserved better
Ironically enough, Super's Pan already is showing to be much better, she's just a baby and already shows much more power!
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,170
Maaaaan this show did Uub so fucking dirty

I would probably say that the magnitude of how badly Uub and then Majuub flopped was worse than Gohan’s disrespect over the years
 

Sketch

Member
Nov 12, 2017
900
GT is my favorite mess.

The bad:
It emphasizes all the things that I hated about the Buu arc but even more so. To your point, every character that isn't Goku is immediately irrelevant. They could have done something really cool with Trunks and Pan but as soon as the series makes the switch from Dragon Ball-style goofy adventures to full-on DBZ fighting arcs, Trunks and Pan are kicked to curb. Hell, even Gohan and Goten are completely disregarded (that's not to say that Dragon Ball Super is doing that much better with those two).

The Baby (Bebi?) arc had an interesting back story but it turned into another "creature takes over Vegeta" storyline. 18 coming back and being a villain again looked awesome to me when I saw clips of it, but it went absolutely nowhere. Characters like Krillin are killed off once again, Piccolo was done dirty by being sent to hell, Uub had a couple of really cool moments but then he gets brushed aside and we never see him again...don't get me started on Vegeta's awful haircut.

But I also loved a couple of aspects of GT.

The good:
Super Saiyan 4 Goku has a pretty cool design and made me excited to see what he was capable of. I also love that his personality changes when in that form. He takes fights more seriously, he doesn't fall for cheap tricks, he's quicker to try and kill. I don't know why they decided to make the transformation effect his personality but I like it. I also have to say that I enjoyed the Black Star Dragon Ball arc. It was a really cool premise to have the characters face comeuppance for overusing and abusing Shenron every time something went wrong and I really liked how the different dragons had unique personalities. I especially love Nuova Shenron (the fire dude), who is faithful to his other shenrons but also adheres to a code and eventually helps Goku and Vegeta.

The great:
Finally, there are the three things that a lot of people who hate or like GT seems to be ok with:
1. The artstyle and animation
2. The beautiful ending (if you didn't cry, you're dead inside)
3. The incredible intro



I'm so mixed on Dragon Ball GT that when people say "I fucking hated it", I get it. But when people say "I didn't hate it, I kind of liked some parts of it", I get that too.

I'm really happy that we got Super but I secretly hope that it takes a couple of ideas from GT later on and does them the right way.
 

RochHoch

Member
May 22, 2018
4,614
It's crazy to me that there are people out there who actually stan for GT. Everything about it godawful, even the garbage ending that so many people have tried to tell me is good.

Super is FAR from perfect, but it's so much better than GT it's not even funny.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,711
Super > GT

GT is just so bland and the most inspired idea the series has (an enemy born from misuse of the Dragon Balls) is utterly wasted. Honestly I don't like the color pallet of the show either, everything looks muted compared to Dragon Ball and DBZ. I'm not a fan of the SSJ4 design, but I think it's mostly due to the color scheme used for the form. If SSJ4 stuck with the gold color scheme of the previous three forms (and the Gold Oozaru design), it would have looked way better

 
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L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,117
Baby scared the hell out of me when I was young. Never saw Gt, went to a random episode and this blob goes into Trunks, takes over him, then rants about Saiyan power. Couldn’t do it
I do think Baby is pretty creepy; I like the scenario. Baby himself still kind of sucks though. After he starts losing he gets whiny. He's even scared of Bulma using the blutz wave generator on him for some reason.

Also, Baby looks awful. Like, his later form doesn't even look like Vegeta anymore even though it's in Vegeta's body.

Actually, that reminds me. When Bulma talks with Vegeta about using the blutz wave generator to achieve Super Saiyan 4, they figure that since you become Super Saiyan 4 by retaining your reason when becoming a Great Ape and Vegeta never loses it to begin with as seen back in Z, he should be able to achieve it instantly. Then when they actually use it in the next episode, Vegeta loses his reason anyway even though he's not supposed to do that in the first place.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,668
The best thing about GT is that Trunks design, it's better than the original.
 
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L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,117
I also love that his personality changes when in that form. He takes fights more seriously, he doesn't fall for cheap tricks, he's quicker to try and kill. I don't know why they decided to make the transformation effect his personality but I like it.
Isn't that just a holdover from the original Super Saiyan? In Japanese, Goku's dialect even becomes more standard when he turns Super Saiyan (switching from "ora" to "ore").
 

Tirisfal

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
939
London
And yet I still love GT. DB is great for what it is, same with Z and GT. I dont want them all to be exactly like each other. GT is always a fun watch.
 

Sketch

Member
Nov 12, 2017
900
Isn't that just a holdover from the original Super Saiyan? In Japanese, Goku's dialect even becomes more standard when he turns Super Saiyan (switching from "ora" to "ore").
Oh that's interesting, I didn't know that. At the time of watching GT, I only had seen the Ocean and Funi dubs of DBZ. I guess they made the difference in personality seem that much more extreme in the Funi GT dub.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,243
When it first aired, I thought it was a neat premise, but when it went back to fighting I expected far more out of the other Z-fighters especially the other saiyans.

As far as power ups being deemed largely irrelevant almost immediately... I mean that happened all the time in Z. All the time.
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,578
GT is a continuation of what went wrong with the Buu Saga, imho, trying to turn everyone into goofy people again like in the first Dragon Ball series, despite having already established certain character arcs, lores, etc. that made these characters' wackiness feel absolutely off. They tried so hard to juggle between DB and DBZ without really being able to have the excellence of either, so it's not surprising the best parts of 'em both are the ones that are practically plagiarized from there (Baby being a new Buu of sorts, Vegeta turning evil again, etc.). The fan service attempts fell on their head real hard, see Super C17. I don't think it was as bad as most people claim, but there were glaring issues for sure.
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,298
What happened is GT tried to go back to the more whimsical adventures seen on the OG dragonball, but people who jumped into the show on Z were absolutely confused about it.
This is a BS claim when the series only really tried to capture the OG DB feel for the first 16 of it's 64 episode run, and especially when said episodes were cut from the US airing. Most people only really know this series for the shitty Z clone that it was for the majority of it's run rather than the shitty DB clone it was at the start.

Take in account that Toriyama was basically roped into doing this when he had wanted to end the franchise like 3 arcs earlier and you get something no one is truly satisfied with.
Toriyama was completely uninvolved with GT besides the initial character designs. Also, the whole "Toriyama wanted the series to end with Frieza, but was forced to continue" stuff, is complete BS.
 

Nemesis-T Type

Alt account
Banned
Jan 19, 2019
253
At least the animation and drawing is good. Better then that clean shiny undetailed look Super has

And it has blood which Super lacks.
 

Fj0823

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,525
Costa Rica
It's so bland lol. I saw this show as it was airing in Japan as a kid and wondered wtf was going on. They managed to underdeliver on almost every possible aspect.

Pan deserved better
To this day I'm still amazed that when asked why Pan never becomes SS the writers said they always envisioned Pan as a damsel to make Goku more heroic.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,785
I watched like 90% of this, and I remember absolutely nothing in all honesty.
All I remember is they did Piccolo super dirty, and I stopped watching during the Omega Shenron fight because I couldn't deal with it anymore.
 

Gloam

Member
Oct 29, 2017
627
When I was 10 or so we went to Spain on a family holiday. Dragon Ball was very popular over there. I bought a couple of video cassettes on that trip. One was Fusion Revival and the other was a three episodes of GT. Fusion Revival got a lot more play from me. Though GT does have nice artstyle. It's a pity the plots are snoozers
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,953
GT almost killed dragonball for me. What an abomination. They need to pass the torch from Goku to someone else already. It is time. Goku has actually peaked and is nearing being unstoppable. It's not interesting anymore to see him get stronger past UI.

I mean, who can actually beat Jiren/gokui and also make a good villian?

*Runs out of thread*
 

RestEerie

Member
Aug 20, 2018
6,943
isn't that what Super turned into though......

i was expecting great things from the 'non-gokus' in the tournament of power arc.......

and then most of them got 1hit KO'ed.
 

Moara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,051
where's Tien and Krillin's moment?
Krillin got an ok moment. Definitely think he needed more after all his buildup though. Tien sucks.

Outside of the obvious examples, a few characters you'd never expect to do as well as they did like Roshi and 17 were there. Even outside of the main cast, characters like Caulifla and Kale had a lot of moments.
 

RestEerie

Member
Aug 20, 2018
6,943
Krillin got an ok moment. Definitely think he needed more after all his buildup though. Tien sucks.

Outside of the obvious examples, a few characters you'd never expect to do as well as they did like Roshi and 17 were there. Even outside of the main cast, characters like Caulifla and Kale had a lot of moments.
c'mon now...califla and kale were already teased to become the 'female broly' before hand so it's kinda expected. Roshi greatest contribution is only to inspire Goku to attain ultra instinct. 17's kinda pointless.

I'm still mad they opted out Buu for a ridiculous reason.
 

Ash735

Member
Sep 4, 2018
780
c'mon now...califla and kale were already teased to become the 'female broly' before hand so it's kinda expected. Roshi greatest contribution is only to inspire Goku to attain ultra instinct. 17's kinda pointless.

I'm still mad they opted out Buu for a ridiculous reason.
Look at it this way, the entire cast as a whole got more wins in TOP than they ever did in all of GT.
 
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L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,117
GT almost killed dragonball for me. What an abomination. They need to pass the torch from Goku to someone else already. It is time. Goku has actually peaked and is nearing being unstoppable. It's not interesting anymore to see him get stronger past UI.

I mean, who can actually beat Jiren/gokui and also make a good villian?

*Runs out of thread*
Goku being invincible is absolutely not the problem. Think about Goku's actual track record. It gets worse over time, not better.

He beat every single opponent in Dragonball that wasn't in a tournament, even defeating the final boss of one arc without any effort (Staff Officer Black). Then in Z, he generally can't defeat opponents on his own and needs assistance. In Super he only has assists or losses aside from Golden Freeza.

As for his track record in GT, it's just weird in that he beats everybody, but generally as base Kid Goku even after attaining SSJ4.
 
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L Thammy

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,117
Sounds like Dragonball Z/Super period outside of Gohan for like 10 episodes.
I swear, the idea that Dragonball is better about using supporting characters than Z is the most bizarre myth to me.

What about Piccolo killing Raditz?
Krillin, Gohan, and even Yajirobe finishing off Vegeta?
Vegeta defeating Cui?
Vegeta defeating Dodoria?
Vegeta defeating Zarbon?
Vegeta defeating Guldo?
Piccolo overpowering Freeza's second form?
Trunks killing Freeza and King Cold?
Vegeta defeating Android 19?
Piccolo fighting evenly with Android 17?
Vegeta overpowering Semi-Perfect Cell?

Characters like Roshi, Krillin, and Tien were just more in the spotlight in Dragonball because they were newly introduced. They slip back into the standard Dragonball supporting roles afterward. Roshi's the only really weird one, where he's introduced and then gets to be the main opponent in an arc later.
 
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PSqueak

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,403
This is a BS claim when the series only really tried to capture the OG DB feel for the first 16 of it's 64 episode run, and especially when said episodes were cut from the US airing. Most people only really know this series for the shitty Z clone that it was for the majority of it's run rather than the shitty DB clone it was at the start.
There is a world outside the USA you know, im from mexico, we got all the episodes.
 

Zelas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,263
I swear, the idea that Dragonball is better about using supporting characters than Z is the most bizarre myth to me.

What about Piccolo killing Raditz?
Krillin, Gohan, and even Yajirobe finishing off Vegeta?
Vegeta defeating Cui?
Vegeta defeating Dodoria?
Vegeta defeating Zarbon?
Vegeta defeating Guldo?
Piccolo overpowering Freeza's second form?
Trunks killing Freeza and King Cold?
Vegeta defeating Android 19?
Piccolo fighting evenly with Android 17?
Vegeta overpowering Semi-Perfect Cell?

Characters like Roshi, Krillin, and Tien were just more in the spotlight in Dragonball because they were newly introduced. They slip back into the standard Dragonball supporting roles afterward. Roshi's the only really weird one, where he's introduced and then gets to be the main opponent in an arc later.
I didnt say anything about DB because I’ve seen like 3 full eps. If that series also builds up people just to feed them to the legend of Goku then that series is equally as terrible.