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Watchmen |OT| HBO Lost Moore's Leftovers

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,081
Regina King's fake "ooh" was incredible.
I as the fucking viewer felt ethered

I understand that Laurie deeply longs for her past as a vigilante, but didn't she hated the sex with Dr. Manhattan because he was acting distant?
Well there's a lot to unpack here, between the duality of Laurie's public life in the present and private life in the past.

She was with a god in the past, and she was a superhero. Both are angles of pure power.

In the present she is getting older and supposed to care for a man who is imprisoned and was sexually impotent.

The juxtaposition could not be any more clear. Dr. Manhattan - free of human affairs with his raw sexual power, vs Nite Owl - caged and limp.
 
Aug 13, 2018
2,541
I don't like this show.

It is slow, it all over the place, the action is Arrow level. It tries to merge multiple heroes, both past and present across America into one narrative and it is not working for me. It is also juggling multiple themes about racism, police, family, sci-fi, vigilantes... 3 episodes in and we have the fake mysteries: Manhattan, Wheelchair oldman, Englishman hero, Police Chief past.

The production quality is high, but I just don't see a cohesive show. Clearly I am not into Watchmen comics, but the movie, which was itself a little boated, was much more focused and enjoyable.
Yeah this show isn’t for you. Time to bail.
 

Burt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,890
We're all so fixated on the Giant Blue Dildo that we haven't even gotten around to acknowledging that it's a Chekov's Giant Blue Dildo

50% chance she beats someone surprising to death with it, 50% chance the mystery to the entire series is locked inside
50% chance Angela stumbles onto it and gives her a
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,081
I don't like this show.

It is slow, it all over the place, the action is Arrow level. It tries to merge multiple heroes, both past and present across America into one narrative and it is not working for me. It is also juggling multiple themes about racism, police, family, sci-fi, vigilantes... 3 episodes in and we have the fake mysteries: Manhattan, Wheelchair oldman, Englishman hero, Police Chief past.

The production quality is high, but I just don't see a cohesive show. Clearly I am not into Watchmen comics, but the movie, which was itself a little boated, was much more focused and enjoyable.
Why are they fake mysteries?
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,859
This was posted earlier in the thread.

But here's the motion comic for anyone wants to catch up.
What’s this like for anyone that’s watched it and read the book? I’ve read the book (and I still have it and intend to read it again soon) but I’m interested in watching this too.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,323
Why are they fake mysteries?
Take Englishman for example, you clearly follow his character in that area. However, instead of the explanation behind his experiments, deaths and the future plans, you get this almost UK sitcom scenes... it just creates more questions than answers.

Similar, for the wheelchair guy, you get this cliche "I am trying to tell you but you aren't listening", and no, neither the character nor the viewers understand his point. It is a mystery because he withholds information...

I guess the police chief isn't a fake one, although I don't like it being about his past. I would much rather it was something related to the present.
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,510
What’s this like for anyone that’s watched it and read the book? I’ve read the book (and I still have it and intend to read it again soon) but I’m interested in watching this too.
I haven't read the book (only seen the movie) And wanted to watch this to make up for that, but not gotten around to it yet. So i can't help you on that front. Sorry.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,421
Take Englishman for example, you clearly follow his character in that area. However, instead of the explanation behind his experiments, deaths and the future plans, you get this almost UK sitcom scenes... it just creates more questions than answers.

Similar, for the wheelchair guy, you get this cliche "I am trying to tell you but you aren't listening", and no, neither the character nor the viewers understand his point. It is a mystery because he withholds information...

I guess the police chief isn't a fake one, although I don't like it being about his past. I would much rather it was something related to the present.
Are all unanswered questions in every single TV show "fake mysteries" then? Do you roll your eyes each time a show's narrative doesn't automatically tell you what's going on?
 

ForgeForsaken

Member
Oct 27, 2017
969
Why are they fake mysteries?
I do kind agree that some of it is. Often we as the viewer/reader have the same amount or more information than the characters we are following, and while there is the mystery to the characters and us (the murder), the stuff with Veidt is only a mystery to us as Veidt clearly knows what is going on, so it's an instance of a character we are directly following being more informed than we are. We are also in general less informed with regards to the state of the world and some of that feels more mystery box than world building.
 

litebrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,718
Take Englishman for example, you clearly follow his character in that area. However, instead of the explanation behind his experiments, deaths and the future plans, you get this almost UK sitcom scenes... it just creates more questions than answers.

Similar, for the wheelchair guy, you get this cliche "I am trying to tell you but you aren't listening", and no, neither the character nor the viewers understand his point. It is a mystery because he withholds information...

I guess the police chief isn't a fake one, although I don't like it being about his past. I would much rather it was something related to the present.
The police chief is dead in the present. The present exists because of the past.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,323
Are all unanswered questions in every single TV show "fake mysteries" then? Do you roll your eyes each time a show's narrative doesn't automatically tell you what's going on?
No, Jesus, please.

If you watch the episode following certain characters, yet their actions or motivations are completely unclear, there is a disconnect.

I like mystery, but I don't like when the mystery is generated by the characters (which the show follows) withholding the information from the viewer. The show can throw curveballs and mysteries at the main characters, but the main characters shouldn't be an enigma to the viewer.
 

litebrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,718
No, Jesus, please.

If you watch the episode following certain characters, yet their actions or motivations are completely unclear, there is a disconnect.

I like mystery, but I don't like when the mystery is generated by the characters (which the show follows) withholding the information from the viewer. The show can throw curveballs and mysteries at the main characters, but the main characters shouldn't be an enigma to the viewer.
Such a weird complaint when the series is still introducing new characters and expanding it's world.
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,081
Take Englishman for example, you clearly follow his character in that area. However, instead of the explanation behind his experiments, deaths and the future plans, you get this almost UK sitcom scenes... it just creates more questions than answers.

Similar, for the wheelchair guy, you get this cliche "I am trying to tell you but you aren't listening", and no, neither the character nor the viewers understand his point. It is a mystery because he withholds information...

I guess the police chief isn't a fake one, although I don't like it being about his past. I would much rather it was something related to the present.
I do kind agree that some of it is. Often we as the viewer/reader have the same amount or more information than the characters we are following, and while there is the mystery to the characters and us (the murder), the stuff with Veidt is only a mystery to us as Veidt clearly knows what is going on, so it's an instance of a character we are directly following being more informed than we are. We are also in general less informed with regards to the state of the world and some of that feels more mystery box than world building.
Ok, so the question kind of becomes, how much attention is expected of the audience? For example if you weren't paying any attention, you don't know that Jeremy Irons is Veidt for the first two episodes. But most fans figured that out pretty quickly. More dedicated fans have also already figured out Veidt's situation more or less. So its a mystery that is completely solvable. The clues are there, they're just not spoonfeeding them to you. If that's what makes a fake mystery... I guess I like fake mysteries?

The wheelchair situation is kind of "fake" but also not. I see where he is coming from. If he tells her everything now, she's not in a mental state where she will accept what he says to be true. Her reaction to "this is my grandfather" is "I'm locking you up." So that was the right call by him. He's biding his time.
 

mattiewheels

Member
Oct 27, 2017
923
Knowing what a ridiculous cornball Lindeloff is in his script descriptions of a scene, I kinda want to see the secrion of the script where she pulls out the mega dildo. It’s probably very entertaining.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,500
Three episodes in and this show is just amazing. It truly hits the right notes for a fan of the comic such as myself. I love what the creators have done with the old characters and their legacies. It’s bold af.

I wonder if there are people here who aren’t familiar with the source material or the movie, how are you liking this?
I only watched the move tonight after watching the first three. Enjoyed them all. The movie...explains a bit lol. I thought Succession would be my favourite season of this year but if they keep this quality going who knows
 

Whiterose

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,635
New York
No, Jesus, please.

If you watch the episode following certain characters, yet their actions or motivations are completely unclear, there is a disconnect.

I like mystery, but I don't like when the mystery is generated by the characters (which the show follows) withholding the information from the viewer. The show can throw curveballs and mysteries at the main characters, but the main characters shouldn't be an enigma to the viewer.
Watchmen is a saga of dystopian murder mystery of uncertainty and fear-mongering, told as a comic book, creating tension and tangled web, until we are at Doomsday. They're building replayability, so you go back knowing the answers and picking on all hints and teases they gave.

We will have all answers in 4 episodes, and the consequences of those actions in the last ones, until then enjoy the ride.
 

andrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,138
I'm gong to say again:

If you have not read Watchen then stop confusing the shit out of yourself and read it in the week before the next episode. This is not a show that will spoon feed you or you can read a summary or watch a recap video and keep up. It's not and you won't get it.
I haven’t read it, I’ve seen the movie once and know the basic plot details. Having zero trouble following this relative to everyone else. I didn’t remember Silk Spectre’s real name for example but the show makes it thoroughly clear Laurie is her, that Nite Owl is jailed somewhere, that Keene Jr is the son of the man who wrote the first anti-mask act, so on. I think the show is comprehensible for those new to Watchmen, and the creative team has said they endeavored to make it that way.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
She hated Dr. Manhattan growing distanceness from her, not necessarily having sex, in and of itself, with him.
More accurate to say she hated his detachment from humanity over the years. In her joke about the heroes she really drives that point home. The Dr. Manhattan she fell in love with was completely different from the one she left for Nite Owl. If you recall the movie she enjoyed sex with him but hated that he wasn’t focused on her during it—he had split himself into several copies some of which continued to work while they were intimate.
 

litebrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,718
More accurate to say she hated his detachment from humanity over the years. In her joke about the heroes she really drives that point home. The Dr. Manhattan she fell in love with was completely different from the one she left for Nite Owl. If you recall the movie she enjoyed sex with him but hated that he wasn’t focused on her during it—he had split himself into several copies some of which continued to work while they were intimate.
Yes, but it was her personal experience of the detachment that she hated.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
Keene definitely engineered that attack on himself right? Just like Veidt?
I suspect so. He conveniently had just coordinated having the most ruthless anti-vigilante FBI agent assigned to the job so he was about as safe as he could be. Laurie hints at him having Presidential aspirations, and surviving an assassination attempt would likely be a boon for someone with such goals.

Yes, but it was her personal experience of the detachment that she hated.
True, but I don’t think there’s any evidence she disliked the sex she had with Dr. Manhattan.
 

litebrite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,718
True, but I don’t think there’s any evidence she disliked the sex she had with Dr. Manhattan.
Did I say that? I literally said it was his growing distanceness from her, not necessarily having sex, in and of itself, with him. And you then reference the scene I was referring to.
 
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Coyote Zamora

Member
Jul 19, 2019
695
I haven’t read it, I’ve seen the movie once and know the basic plot details. Having zero trouble following this relative to everyone else. I didn’t remember Silk Spectre’s real name for example but the show makes it thoroughly clear Laurie is her, that Nite Owl is jailed somewhere, that Keene Jr is the son of the man who wrote the first anti-mask act, so on. I think the show is comprehensible for those new to Watchmen, and the creative team has said they endeavored to make it that way.
I didn't say that you couldn't follow it, I said that you won't get it and judging by most of the questions in this thread; most of those that haven't read the source material don't.
 

DanGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,841
Keene definitely engineered that attack on himself right?
Almost certainly. Keene is clearly sketchy.

I wonder how relevant to modern times Lindelof is going with Keene. The way Keene sidestepped that Russia question makes me think he's some combination of useful idiot, willing pawn, and/or compromised puppet. Sowing racial discord while pushing authoritarian policing measures... hmm.
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,170
I think at this point it'd be a plot twist if Keene doesn't end up being sketchy. Which I think might be very likely since that character archetype is pretty old hat by now.
I think the twist is that he's sketchy and he engineered the attack but he had a good reason for doing it. Or at least, a morally complicated reason.
 

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,806
Is this for sure a one and done show? Or is there a chance for more seasons?
It's self contained as far as Lindelof goes. He himself doesn't want to do another season but is OK if HBO hires someone with an incredibly different vision to do another season. For example, he said "imagine a Ryan Coogler Watchmen".
 

Talal

Unbreakable
Member
Oct 25, 2017
691
This show is so good. Gets better each episode . Love all the easter eggs too.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,091
It's self contained as far as Lindelof goes. He himself doesn't want to do another season but is OK if HBO hires someone with an incredibly different vision to do another season. For example, he said "imagine a Ryan Coogler Watchmen".
I'd be down for that. Like a director anthology for Watchmen.
 

andrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,138
Obviously we’ll have to see how this season winds up, but if acts 2 and 3 make good on the opening act I would like to see what other ideas Lindelof has for Watchmen. If he’s dead set against it though the anthology concept is a great one.
I didn't say that you couldn't follow it, I said that you won't get it and judging by most of the questions in this thread; most of those that haven't read the source material don't.
And I’m saying that seems even more gatekeeper-y and peculiarly pretentious to say. What do you mean by “get it?” That the themes and ideas the show is exploring are totally out of the grasp of everyone who hasn’t read all 12 issues? Because that’s plainly ridiculous. Also that’s not how semicolons work.
 

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,806
This just ruined my No Nut November.
Same tbh

Obviously we’ll have to see how this season winds up, but if acts 2 and 3 make good on the opening act I would like to see what other ideas Lindelof has for Watchmen. If he’s dead set against it though the anthology concept is a great one.
The thing is he doesn't want to do anymore seasons because he's stated he's put ALL of his ideas for Watchmen in this one season, which is why this series is so dense so far. He's leaving essentially nothing on the cutting room floor to be used in future seasons.