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Watchmen |OT| This is the Moment

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,829
Wow how did I glance over all these posts. Of course that was NiN in the end credits. How the fuck do they keep getting more dope each year?
 

gitrektali

Member
Feb 22, 2018
960
what about Rorschach's mask? there is something supernatural about that.
"Rorschach's Mask (which Rorschach refers to as his "face") consisted of a specialized fabric, one that was actually two layers of fabric with viscous black and white fluids trapped between them. The fluids remained in constant motion, being affected by heat and pressure, however the black and white colors never combined to form gray. The patterns formed by the fluids also maintained a constant symmetrical pattern down the mid line of whatever shape the fabric had been formed into.

Walter Kovacs' first discovered the fabric when he worked for a dressmaker. The fabric was originally made into a woman's dress and the marketing of such a product would be linked to Dr. Manhattan. The product's first customer was a woman named Kitty Genovese, who was unhappy with the dress, calling it ugly and refused to buy it. Kovacs' thought differently however, and took possession of the fabric for himself, saying it was "very beautiful." At home he used heated instruments to shape the fabric into a full head covering, a face he "could look at in the mirror
."
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,247
Interesting pilot although it felt very scattershot at times. Hopefully the mystery involving the kid from Tulsa ends up with a good payoff.
 

Opto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,925
It didn't come up much, but there was at least one known actual psychic in Watchmen, and Veidt spoke of there being many 'sensitives' that would still be reeling from the psychic pulse of the squid years after
 

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,944
Does the guy with the silver mirror mask have a superpower or is he just really good at reading people’s faces.
 

plexxrock

Banned
Feb 19, 2019
446
User warned: hostility
listen, it's sunday so i'll play nice here. i'll give you one chance to sit the fuck down, and stop embarassing yourself. next post, i'll just line up the countless quotes that can be found THROUGHOUT the entire novel of how the world around him sees him and the very apparent mental problems he suffers from.

you decide how you want to play this. he's litterally begging jon to kill him, try pondering why the fuck that is donk.

“It just became obvious; we realized that this was a character if ever there was a character that had a king-sized death wish. He was in pain, psychological pain, every moment of his life, and he wanted out of it, but with honor — in whatever his own twisted standards of honor might have been.”

you are clearly to dumb to be in a discussion about anything more advanced than a harlequin novel.
 

plexxrock

Banned
Feb 19, 2019
446
it just becomes embarassing when you try and make it about ''politics'' with watchmen. when that wasn't moore's core intent at all. and considering they gave most if not all of the characters extremely apparent flaws to highlight the point moore intended with his story, you can actually pinpoint the multitude of traits each character have.

veidt for instance is a textbook narcissist (which is also a personality disorder)
 

CoolestSpot

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,751
it just becomes embarassing when you try and make it about ''politics'' with watchmen. when that wasn't moore's core intent at all. and considering they gave most if not all of the characters extremely apparent flaws to highlight the point moore intended with his story, you can actually pinpoint the multitude of traits each character have.

veidt for instance is a textbook narcissist (which is also a personality disorder)
...Watchman is political as much as Superman loves tights, what the fuck
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,102
it just becomes embarassing when you try and make it about ''politics'' with watchmen. when that wasn't moore's core intent at all. and considering they gave most if not all of the characters extremely apparent flaws to highlight the point moore intended with his story, you can actually pinpoint the multitude of traits each character have.

veidt for instance is a textbook narcissist (which is also a personality disorder)
Why do you quote people and remove their entire post?

Also, Watchmen is political as hell.
 

plexxrock

Banned
Feb 19, 2019
446
it has a political narrative yes, but the point of the story isn't that. the point of the story is what would it be like if you put the concept of a ''superhero'' in our world. it's one big fuck you to the whole idea of ''superheroes''

Man goes to doctor. Says he’s depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says “Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up.” Man bursts into tears. Says “But, doctor…I am Pagliacci.” Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains. Fade to black.

the fucking undertitle is litterally ''who watches the watchmen?''
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,360
Some of the original characters are purely political. Dr Manhattan is a perfect allegory for the continued usage of nuclear weapons after World War II, with the US 'nuking' Vietnam and the consequences of that.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
4,428
what about Rorschach's mask? there is something supernatural about that.
In the official lore, his mask is made out of a fancy material he took from a dressmaker he worked for. It’s two layers of fabric with white and black fluid in between that react to heat.

Kind of extra contrived, but it is what it is.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,360
Moore by the way has said the book has a political message, he just didn't want to put it on Reagan so that is why he goes for a fourth term Nixon.

I also wanted to write about power politics. Ronald Reagan was president. But I worried readers might switch off if they thought I was attacking someone they admired. So we set Watchmen in a world where Nixon was in his fourth term — because you’re not going to get much argument that Nixon was scum! For me, the ’80s were worrying. “Mutually assured destruction.” “Voodoo economics.” A culture of complacency… I was writing about times I lived
 

Tranq

Member
Oct 21, 2018
209
I was honestly pretty bored by most of the pilot. Couldn't really bring myself to care about any of the characters beside the little boy from the riots. Then a bunch of little things, like characters wearing masks inconsistently, a cop wearing a dirty panda head for no reason. A shootout with cows that just made me feel bad for the cows. Like...I'm not seeing anything special here. Hopefully the next episodes are as good as the reviews say cause this is just extremely mediocre with a big budget.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,467
it just becomes embarassing when you try and make it about ''politics'' with watchmen. when that wasn't moore's core intent at all. and considering they gave most if not all of the characters extremely apparent flaws to highlight the point moore intended with his story, you can actually pinpoint the multitude of traits each character have.

veidt for instance is a textbook narcissist (which is also a personality disorder)
You dead-ass trying to claim Watchmen of all things wasn't political?
How in the ever loving hell...
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,247
I was honestly pretty bored by most of the pilot. Couldn't really bring myself to care about any of the characters beside the little boy from the riots. Then a bunch of little things, like characters wearing masks inconsistently, a cop wearing a dirty panda head for no reason. A shootout with cows that just made me feel bad for the cows. Like...I'm not seeing anything special here. Hopefully the next episodes are as good as the reviews say cause this is just extremely mediocre with a big budget.
What do you mean by inconsistent masks?
 

Tranq

Member
Oct 21, 2018
209
What do you mean by inconsistent masks?
You see characters wearing masks in places where they shouldn't have to, like in the police station or when they're taking down the plane in the spaceship. Some characters don't wear masks. Some characters where the same mask, others use custom ones. One guy uses a dirty panda head for some reason.

It just kinda bothers me, like are the masks optional or what?
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,862
UK
Ballsy to mostly forego exposition and just throw the viewer into the world. Did the Leftovers also do this?

Not surprised Nazis are in their feelings about this. Then the apolitical trolls who think Watchmen isn't political or that this is suddenly now ess jay double yoo. They know nothing about the source material or what was Moore's intentions about Rorschach and his criticism of Steve Ditko Randian superheroes.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,360
You see characters wearing masks in places where they shouldn't have to, like in the police station or when they're taking down the plane in the spaceship. Some characters don't wear masks. Some characters where the same mask, others use custom ones. One guy uses a dirty panda head for some reason.

It just kinda bothers me, like are the masks optional or what?
Normal grunts use the same yellow masks, the high ranked officers use custom ones to be recognizable.
Police station, you expect crooks to be there in cells, or witnesses, or whoever random.
 

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,516
USA
Ballsy to mostly forego exposition and just throw the viewer into the world. Did the Leftovers also do this?

Not surprised Nazis are in their feelings about this. Then the apolitical trolls who think Watchmen isn't political or that this is suddenly now ess jay double yoo. They know nothing about the source material or what was Moore's intentions about Rorschach and his criticism of Steve Ditko Randian superheroes.
the leftovers did it on a much smaller scale.
 

plexxrock

Banned
Feb 19, 2019
446
are purely political. Dr Manhattan
yeah, just no.

because what moore wanted to do, that sparked the whole idea of watchmen was to show how pathetic and childish the notion of ''superheroes'' were. the idea of these super do good individuals, who all look like shiny supermodels, parading and whom almost never got tempted by evil, eventhough one of them alone could rule the world if they decided it to be so.

literally EVERY single character got a multitude of traits written into them, that you can identify both through action and by things they say throughout the entire story that put them all on different spectrums that you can find in icd and dsm manuals. that's the point with watchmen, there is no such thing as superheroes and if they did exist and behaved like they do in the comics, with masking themselves and running around with secret identities something would have to be seriously fucking wrong in their head to cause such behavior in the first place.
 

Tranq

Member
Oct 21, 2018
209
Normal grunts use the same yellow masks, the high ranked officers use custom ones to be recognizable.
Police station, you expect crooks to be there in cells, or witnesses, or whoever random.
It's pretty funny that they would want to be recognizable when the whole point is to hide their identity.
 

hellorain

Member
Apr 21, 2019
83
Brighton
yeah, just no.



because what moore wanted to do, that sparked the whole idea of watchmen was to show how pathetic and childish the notion of ''superheroes'' were. the idea of these super do good individuals, who all look like shiny supermodels, parading and whom almost never got tempted by evil, eventhough one of them alone could rule the world if they decided it to be so.

literally EVERY single character got a multitude of traits written into them, that you can identify both through action and by things they say throughout the entire story that put them all on different spectrums that you can find in icd and dsm manuals. that's the point with watchmen, there is no such thing as superheroes and if they did exist and behaved like they do in the comics, with masking themselves and running around with secret identities something would have to be seriously fucking wrong in their head to cause such behavior in the first place.
Is barely quoting the comments you choose to reply to a strategy to make this discussion deliberately difficult to follow?

Because it just makes you look like you're arguing in bad faith tbh. You should probably stop doing that.
 

PogChamp

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,247
You see characters wearing masks in places where they shouldn't have to, like in the police station or when they're taking down the plane in the spaceship. Some characters don't wear masks. Some characters where the same mask, others use custom ones. One guy uses a dirty panda head for some reason.

It just kinda bothers me, like are the masks optional or what?
My understanding is that the cops in this universe are like a militia operation. Everyone except the chief wears a mask because they need to protect their identities, not only from outsiders but from each other. Those wearing special masks are unique characters, like the guy with the reflective mask uses it for interrogation.

Panda is wearing a panda mask because it seems like he is the unique "watchman" who determines if everyone else is acting in accordance with the law.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,102
yeah, just no.



because what moore wanted to do, that sparked the whole idea of watchmen was to show how pathetic and childish the notion of ''superheroes'' were. the idea of these super do good individuals, who all look like shiny supermodels, parading and whom almost never got tempted by evil, eventhough one of them alone could rule the world if they decided it to be so.

literally EVERY single character got a multitude of traits written into them, that you can identify both through action and by things they say throughout the entire story that put them all on different spectrums that you can find in icd and dsm manuals. that's the point with watchmen, there is no such thing as superheroes and if they did exist and behaved like they do in the comics, with masking themselves and running around with secret identities something would have to be seriously fucking wrong in their head to cause such behavior in the first place.
I think I’ll go with Moore literally talking about the politics on this one.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,360
And Panda as well, is probably not the only dude like that in the police. The cop that got shot, was complaining about Panda being on service. So maybe there is also Bear or Wolf who is more trigger happy.
 

plexxrock

Banned
Feb 19, 2019
446
no, i'm saying that the intent was to play around with the concept of ''superheroes'' and that the notion these could exist in a realistic context (the way the are in comics) is pathetic. and that every single one of the main characters counciously got written in ways where they show severe mental deficiencies throughout the story, both trough action and speech.

meaning, the thing that drives them and cause them to act and behave the way they do, has fuck all to do with their political views, and is rooted in all of them suffering from mental problems. (including jon, litterally emotionally dead but somehow purely political? i lol'd)
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,102
no, i'm saying that the intent was to play around with the concept of ''superheroes'' and that the notion these could exist in a realistic context (the way the are in comics) is pathetic. and that every single one of the main characters counciously got written in ways where they show severe mental deficiencies throughout the story, both trough action and speech.

meaning, the thing that drives them and cause them to act and behave the way they do, has fuck all to do with their political views, and is rooted in all of them suffering from mental problems. (including jon, litterally emotionally dead but somehow purely political? i lol'd)
None of that makes the comic not be political. You even said the narrative is political, which makes the comic political. The narrative is part of the comic.

What is even going on?
 

Tranq

Member
Oct 21, 2018
209
So Batman is a chump for having a recognizable mask?
As far as I know Batman didn't start wearing a mask specifically because he was afraid of white nationalist terrorists killing him. Unless I'm getting something wrong about why the police wear masks in this show. If I was a terrorist that managed to scare the police so bad they had to where masks even behind closed doors it wouldn't particularly scare me to know some of them wear red ones, or panda heads.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,360
Moore is saying something else.

If I was a terrorist that managed to scare the police so bad they had to where masks even behind closed doors it wouldn't particularly scare me to know some of them wear red ones, or panda heads.
Wouldn't it scare you if you heard about a guy with a silver mask that can get anything out of you? Or of a Sister Night who will gladly beat you to a pulp? And then see them walk in... That is the difference between the yellow masks and the 'specific' masks.
 

hellorain

Member
Apr 21, 2019
83
Brighton
no, i'm saying that the intent was to play around with the concept of ''superheroes'' and that the notion these could exist in a realistic context (the way the are in comics) is pathetic. and that every single one of the main characters counciously got written in ways where they show severe mental deficiencies throughout the story, both trough action and speech.

meaning, the thing that drives them and cause them to act and behave the way they do, has fuck all to do with their political views, and is rooted in all of them suffering from mental problems. (including jon, litterally emotionally dead but somehow purely political? i lol'd)
my dude, are you Zack Snyder?

because you are interpreting Watchmen in the most one-dimensional way possible.
 

plexxrock

Banned
Feb 19, 2019
446
''adult fans of superheroes are "emotionally subnormal" and that costumed crusaders are "abominations."


Readers of superhero comics are "an audience largely of 30-, 40-, 50-, 60-year old men," Moore says. "Someone came up with the term graphic novel. These readers latched on to it; they were simply interested in a way that could validate their continued love of Green Lantern or Spider-Man without appearing in some way emotionally subnormal."


He continues: "I don’t think the superhero stands for anything good. I think it’s a rather alarming sign if we’ve got audiences of adults going to see the Avengers movie and delighting in concepts and characters meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of the 1950s."
 

plexxrock

Banned
Feb 19, 2019
446
interpreting Watchmen in the most one-dimensional
no, i'm counciously lookin at it through the lens of why it made the times top 100. instead of de-railing into a extremely boring discussion about ''leftist'' vs ''alt-right'' bullshit. making watchmen's characters about their political views and to assert that this is what causes them to behave the way they do? now that would be a class a example of looking at it in the simplest way imaginable.

and to do the work moore did writing the characters an enormous disservice.