Watchmen |OT| This is the Moment

ShutterMunster

Art Lead @ Activision
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,187
What a weird, patronizing response. 5 seconds of Google will tell you that Mr. Robot is considered (critically / dramatically) on top of the TV world right now. I'm still behind (fell off in the 2nd season due to other obligations) and even I know that it's been firing on all cylinders for at least 2 seasons. Which is one more than Watchmen even if you disregarded everything else.

Or maybe you take a step back and appreciate that there are 2+ great shows out there instead of trying to crown yours the king. Who knows?
Enough with the histrionics. I'm well aware that y'all love Mr. Robot.

Esmail's squad does good work.

Histrionics? I made clear I haven't even seen the last 2.5 seasons, I have no love beyond meaning to watch it later. I just see you being weirdly aggressive in your posts.
Alright, enough of you.

BACK ON TOPIC
I'm with a few of y'all on the Manhattan reveal. It does seem strange for him to come back and mingle with the peasants again but I'm hoping they've got a good solve for that. They don't have a ton of time to flesh out his character.
 
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Calles

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,349
The more I think about it the less I like the Manhattan reveal, he had become so detached from humanity there was almost nothing left of the original man he was. He was quite literally a God. Why he would go back to Earth and find love again. I'm having quite the problem believing he was capable of it or would care about any of them. How they might appeal to such a being was a question I wanted to see happen, and now we find out love solves all. It comes off hollow to me.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,891
The more I think about it the less I like the Manhattan reveal, he had become so detached from humanity there was almost nothing left of the original man he was. He was quite literally a God. Why he would go back to Earth and find love again. I'm having quite the problem believing he was capable of it or would care about any of them. How they might appeal to such a being was a question I wanted to see happen, and now we find out love solves all. It comes off hollow to me.
i dont know if its love or his idea of what love is. its dr. manhattan, so i dont doubt there's some level of detachment from everything we know as the concept of love and probably veers onto a curiosity that he enjoys viewing and the Kal personality with the "amnesia" was a way for him to be able to experience on what he can call a "human" level.
 
Jul 2, 2019
752
The more I think about it the less I like the Manhattan reveal, he had become so detached from humanity there was almost nothing left of the original man he was. He was quite literally a God. Why he would go back to Earth and find love again. I'm having quite the problem believing he was capable of it or would care about any of them. How they might appeal to such a being was a question I wanted to see happen, and now we find out love solves all. It comes off hollow to me.
He wasn't totally detached by the end of the book though. Laurie convinced him humanity was worth saving and he came to view life as a miracle.
 

Calles

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,349
i dont know if its love or his idea of what love is. its dr. manhattan, so i dont doubt there's some level of detachment from everything we know as the concept of love and probably veers onto a curiosity that he enjoys viewing and the Kal personality with the "amnesia" was a way for him to be able to experience on what he can call a "human" level.
The only way I can believe he'd do it is if it was part of an experiment for him.

He wasn't totally detached by the end of the book though. Laurie convinced him humanity was worth saving and he came to view life as a miracle.
He almost didn't and unlikely any other could have convinced him. At the end he was pretty much finished with people and the things they do.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,891
The only way I can believe he'd do it is if it was part of an experiment for him.



He almost didn't and unlikely any other could have convinced him. At the end he was pretty much finished with people and the things they do.
i fully expect we'll get the John answer next week. His intervention in the Vietnam war will also play a part in it too. Whether it's guilt or whatever he views as being his kind of guilt that brought him back to Vietnam to experience what he had wrought on that country and he just so happens to meet Angela and see's beyond her present and future, but glimpses into a past he finds fascinating. everything John does is with a degree of detachment that viewer/reader will find uncomfortable and unsatisfying, but that's the kind of character he is.
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,487
BACK ON TOPIC
I'm with a few of y'all on the Manhattan reveal. It does seem strange for him to come back and mingle with the peasants again but I'm hoping they've got a good solve for that. They don't have a ton of time to flesh out his character.
Agreed. I know it's based on the comic though, which was a bit different.
 

Calles

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,349
i fully expect we'll get the John answer next week. His intervention in the Vietnam war will also play a part in it too. Whether it's guilt or whatever he views as being his kind of guilt that brought him back to Vietnam to experience what he had wrought on that country and he just so happens to meet Angela and see's beyond her present and future, but glimpses into a past he finds fascinating. everything John does is with a degree of detachment that viewer/reader will find uncomfortable and unsatisfying, but that's the kind of character he is.
Maybe. I suppose we'll see depending on the reason they give for this.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,002
I'm with a few of y'all on the Manhattan reveal. It does seem strange for him to come back and mingle with the peasants again but I'm hoping they've got a good solve for that. They don't have a ton of time to flesh out his character.
It doesn't seem strange to me even without specifics. I've never read Manhattan as nearly as aloof and detached as he likes to portray or as others portray him as. He's godlike, but he's also still human. He gets his omniscience and starts chasing around a younger woman. He was fine with going and winning a war for America. Sure when shit hits the fan he fucks off to Mars, but that's kind of human too. Scurrying back seems within his character to me.

He's also still kind of fascinated with life in any case, and with the miracle of people after generations and generations making someone specific. I could see him wanting to live as an actual human again.
 
Jul 2, 2019
752
The only way I can believe he'd do it is if it was part of an experiment for him.



He almost didn't and unlikely any other could have convinced him. At the end he was pretty much finished with people and the things they do.
That's not true at all. His last exchange in the book is him saying he has regained interest in life and will probably go and create some. His arc in the book is about him regaining his connection to life despite being 'above' it, not abandoning it.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,002
That's not true at all. His last exchange in the book is him saying he has regained interest in life and will probably go and create some. His arc in the book is about him regaining his connection to life despite being 'above' it, not abandoning it.
Yeah I think people forget this. He's super detached during the middle part, but his ending isn't that. I mean, he still goes away, but there's more interest in life behind that.
 

Chuck Noblet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,967
HBO got bought by a company that has the Watchmen license. That's the reason.
Didn't hbo get bought by or merge with time Warner/Warner bros (which own DC) in the 80s? I'm pretty sure they could have done a watchmen show anytime, but lindelof had a good idea for a sequel/remix in recent years.

This show doesn't really strike me as a crass exploitation of an ip license. I suppose it's possible Dr Manhattan's inclusion was just shoehorned into the show cause they own the character and can, but idk. I don't think so.
 

ShutterMunster

Art Lead @ Activision
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,187
Yeah I think people forget this. He's super detached during the middle part, but his ending isn't that. I mean, he still goes away, but there's more interest in life behind that.

Totally forgot about that. I got to give the GN another read. I lost my physical in a move, so I'll grab the digital edition.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,567
One weird thing: The splicing during Angela's parents' death of the Vietnamese men and the white men in Tulsa was weird. Were they implying a similarity there?
 

Kard8p3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,299
There were so many small things at the end in their house that set it off (though by the time it was mentioned Jon was in Tulsa I figured it out). The book Cal was holding while he slept, the fucking planet poster in their kitchen. Damn this show is great
 

Duane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,011
Comixology Unlimited has it available for free, FYI. (Well, not free because CU costs $6 a month, but still, that's a pretty cheap way to read Watchmen.)
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,487
There were so many small things at the end in their house that set it off (though by the time it was mentioned Jon was in Tulsa I figured it out). The book Cal was holding while he slept, the fucking planet poster in their kitchen. Damn this show is great
hard to think much about those in a world that was changed so much by Manhattan. All of the public would be into that stuff.

also, it seemed like she knew nothing about anything but then all of a sudden she did and went back to hammer Cal.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,078
One weird thing: The splicing during Angela's parents' death of the Vietnamese men and the white men in Tulsa was weird. Were they implying a similarity there?
I think it was just paralleling the defining, traumatic experiences of both Angela and Will's lives. And there is at least some similarity, as both involved violent, radical extremists.
 

Robobadlad

Member
Jun 12, 2018
30
I really like that they've managed to turn one of the white characters in the original comic in to black man pretending to be white, and one of the black characters in the show in to a white man pretending to be black. (Even though I totally understand the concerns about white saviour - we'll see how it pans out). I feel like someone smarter than me will draw parallels between this and Rorschach's whole gimmick of seeing things in black and white rather than shades of grey, but I can't quite put it together myself.
 

Pusherman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
375
One weird thing: The splicing during Angela's parents' death of the Vietnamese men and the white men in Tulsa was weird. Were they implying a similarity there?
The split started when she was watching the puppet player have Manhattan kill the Vietnamese soldiers. I thought it suggested a link between the imperial violence of the Vietnam war with the white supremacist violence against the black people of Tulsa. Lady Trieu's character makes me think the writers are well aware of the suffering of the Vietnamese at the hands of America.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,819
Oh holy fucking shit. Someone mentioned this blacksploitation movie on reddit. Fucking incredible.

Good thing I only view these threads they day after each episode airs. This and the excalibur hint would've spoiled it for me.


Dr Manhattan is bad at explaining things to his girlfriends as usual. He's not dying. The way he was created ensures this is impossible now. But that doesn't mean 7th Cal can't succeed in making their own super nazi. If they do I'll be surprised because this show feels like a mid budget project. Everything has been lean on special effects and honestly even if they had the budget it would be very weird if this show started leaning more toward CGI action. I am very curious how they will handle this if they do have the balls to make a super nazi.*



*We all should know that overtime the super nazi will still become disinterested but that's a long ways off after some damage would be done.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,712
I really like that they've managed to turn one of the white characters in the original comic in to black man pretending to be white, and one of the black characters in the show in to a white man pretending to be black. (Even though I totally understand the concerns about white saviour - we'll see how it pans out). I feel like someone smarter than me will draw parallels between this and Rorschach's whole gimmick of seeing things in black and white rather than shades of grey, but I can't quite put it together myself.
I think it might be something along the lines of Angela being unwilling to let go of her memories and hurt, unable to accept Trieu’s mind-wiping plan for the greater good. Because it will be Manhattan who’ll be sacrificed to achieve it. Although maybe it’ll be Laurie or even Looking Glass who has that Rorschach role.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,299
I'm expecting Keene to just fucking explode into viscera in a hilarious failure, tbh. Bonus points if it looks like it succeeds for all of 10 seconds.
 

Lord Fagan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,732
I really like that they've managed to turn one of the white characters in the original comic in to black man pretending to be white, and one of the black characters in the show in to a white man pretending to be black. (Even though I totally understand the concerns about white saviour - we'll see how it pans out). I feel like someone smarter than me will draw parallels between this and Rorschach's whole gimmick of seeing things in black and white rather than shades of grey, but I can't quite put it together myself.
The best part is the 7K's whole master plan...and how oblivious they are to who they're trying to become.
 

Farmboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
354
this fucking show. Another amazing episode.

So what do you guys think: is Veidt Trieu’s dad and is he the thing that fell out of the sky on the farmland she bought? Did Looking Glass swipen that one missing Rorschach mask and is he now undercover in 7K?
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,078
this fucking show. Another amazing episode.

So what do you guys think: is Veidt Trieu’s dad and is he the thing that fell out of the sky on the farmland she bought? Did Looking Glass swipen that one missing Rorschach mask and is he now undercover in 7K?
I think both are likely (although I'm uncertain how literally she is Veidt's "daughter"), but I'm not sure what LG's ultimate goal is at this point.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,299
this fucking show. Another amazing episode.

So what do you guys think: is Veidt Trieu’s dad and is he the thing that fell out of the sky on the farmland she bought? Did Looking Glass swipen that one missing Rorschach mask and is he now undercover in 7K?
Not by blood, perhaps, but I could see Trieu consider Veidt as her father.

and yeah, I think wouldn't be surprised if LG evolved into a modern day *real* Rorschach. Not what the fuckin racists turned his mask into.
 

BeeDog

Member
Oct 26, 2017
979
Hmm, not sure I actually enjoyed this episode. Feels like it became way too weird all of a sudden; sure, the previous episodes were on the weirder side too but now it's going a bit too far for my tastes. Especially the fart scene, I mean come on.
 
Oct 30, 2017
669
Hmm, not sure I actually enjoyed this episode. Feels like it became way too weird all of a sudden; sure, the previous episodes were on the weirder side too but now it's going a bit too far for my tastes. Especially the fart scene, I mean come on.
I'm half expecting some sort of parody for the Viedt stuff.

Also, almost forgot till I saw your post.

https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata/series/watchmen/peteypedia/07/memo-sister-night.pdf
https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata/series/watchmen/peteypedia/07/calvin-medical-chart.pdf
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,654
I'm honestly confused. Could a Manhattan even be racist? I thought the burden of being a superman is that you lose all your humanity and all these human matters just seem petty. Like I'm sure the 7ths Manhattan could do some damage but wouldn't he also eventually get bored?
Jon didn't have any like particular goals in mind because he became Doctor Manhattan and besides that he lost his connection with his with humanity slowly over time that's why he began to wear progressively less clothing
 

Rosé Fighter

Member
Aug 23, 2019
291
When I heard the line from Keene, "Its hard to be a white man these days", I got a fucking huge grin because you know there are motherfuckers who think that. Man the balls to make your villain practically an alt-right incel.