Wayforward joining the development team for Bloodstained

[Instro]

I think people are misunderstanding what is happening. At least at face value, they are being brought in as a support studio, and as far as I am aware that is fairly normal as part of development. Perhaps it looks weird because they are a known "name" studio, but they are also one the few professional independent studios qualified to help on something like this(i.e. a sidescrolling)

Maybe I'm completely off base though. I'm sure someone else has a better idea about games development, and can provide some insight here.

It's a shame because in my books Inti is the top 2d action dev right now.

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Yeah as a purely 2D developer they are great. They don't seem to possess any technical skills to when it comes to 3D engines though.

 

[Mochi]

That's great to hear. I love WayForward.

 

[Dodongo]

Great news. They are pros at this

 

[thepenguin55]

Huh? This late in the game? Honestly this comes off as strange and even troubling to me.

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Yeah, if this came shortly after the project was announced that would be one thing but for this to be happening now paints a picture of this game being in serious trouble.

 

[jwhit28]

Yeah, if this came shortly after the project was announced that would be one thing but for this to be happening now paints a picture of this game being in serious trouble.

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Even if the base game is releasing soon, a lot of the content is planned to be released over a long period of time similar to Shovel Knight according to the development team. This game could be in active development for another 2 or 3 years.

 

[Bob Beat]

I forgot about blood stained having two games. I was wondering what I just bought on sale.

I'm old.

 

[denpanosekai]

Jake Kaufman was already part of the team (as per kickstarter stretch goals anyhow) so this makes sense!

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Jake Kaufman was already part of the team (as per kickstarter stretch goals anyhow) so this makes sense!

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Jake Kaufman doesn't work for Wayforward as an employee anymore. He's freelance now (though does still usually work with Wayforward on their projects).

 

[Symphony]

Shame they weren't put in charge of development from the start so that it could look as good as Half Genie Hero.

 

[Strings]

Bah, I loved the demo, and it feels like they may be overcorrecting based on some of the criticism.

Inti Creates must have fucked up big if they need help this late in development. MN9 makes me think they aren't good for 3D development at all.
Glad I didn't back this.

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Inti Creates hasn't been on this for over 2 years. http://www.siliconera.com/2017/07/25/inti-creates-no-longer-involved-main-development-bloodstained/

 

[Slaythe]

Way forward is a fantastic studio.

Bloodstained demo was a piece of crap.

I hope they save the game.

 

[Sevyne]

If this news was 2 years ago I'd be excited. I love Way forward, but this game should be nearly complete by now.

I don't think the game is in any trouble, but it's an odd move to make this late in development.

 

[Deleted member 5148]

so who had previoulsy worked with iga from the wayforward team and what was his job back than?

 

[StarCreator]

I hadn't realized there was another thread for this. This was posted to the Update thread:

Info from 505's Angel-Corlux in the Discord:

WayForward has been working with us for a while now
we're just now announcing it for various behind the scenes reasons
without going into specifics
they are the major result of our listening to all the feedback from everyone here and beyond from the BBD
lots and lots of additional work, resources and time are being poured into the game because of the feedback
so basically this is the moment where you all know that our delay announcement wasn't just lip service
currently we don't have plans for WayForward IP character crossovers
and as for what they're working on, as the update mentions, they are most heavily involved in polishing/raising fidelity quality bar, helping with bugs, and a few other large endeavors that we can't talk about

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Sounds like 505 brought WayForward in based on the beta backer demo feedback, so presumably they've been on the project for a few months at this point.

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[MegaMix]

Wayforward did great things with Contra, hopefully they can do great things with Castlevania too.

 

[HyGogg]

While I'm sure Way forward will only make this better, it's worrying that they're bringing on another device this late in the dev cycle. It says to me that it's apparent that the current devs can't finish this on their own.

 

[ekurisona]

Angel-Corlux Score hidden · 35 minutes ago · Stickied comment · edited 31 minutes ago

Hey everyone, we've noticed that some may be misunderstanding this announcement or letting their concerns get the better of them unnecessarily. Let me try and help by repeating and clarifying where possible:

- Bloodstained is coming out in 2019, an exact release date is coming soon, we know what that date is, and will release it according to our marketing plan.

- We received a lot of feedback from the Beta Backer Demo(BBD) overwhelmingly asking for improvement on certain areas like graphical fidelity.

- Our goal is also to have no further delays to the one we already announced, moving the launch to 2019.

- Wanting to deliver as many improvements as we can while also maintaining our launch schedule, 505 Games and ArtPlay have partnered with WayForward, an absolutely amazing studio with a proven track record of excellence especially in the 2D / platformer genre.

- Wayforward has been working with us well before this announcement was made. The announcement comes now because of boring procedural / legal stuff that had to be sorted out first.

- Iga / ArtPlay are still very much in charge of the project, WayForward have simply joined the team to add value to various areas, some of which I've mentioned, while other (very exciting) things we have yet to announce and discuss.

If there's still any confusion behind this news, this should be seen as the proof that we're not just saying "we hear your feedback" from the Beta Backer Demo and moving on, we're actually doing something about it. The delay we announced recently and the additional resources we're investing to work with WayForward (and additional internal resources) are a testament to 505 Games and ArtPlay's commitment to make Bloodstained the best game it can be.

Finally, I would advise a word of caution in getting swept up by anyone making negative claims about the state of the game. I've seen people say that this news means the game will be delayed for a second time or that the game has no content completed, among other claims. Please keep in mind that unless it's messaging from myself (Brand Manager, managing the launch and commercial aspects of the game) or Question (Sr. Community Manager) then it's not official information, and where needed, I will be commenting to point out if something is incorrect.

Thank you everyone for all your support and as always, hit us up if you have questions or feedback! :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bloodstain...ter_update_75_a_hunter_joins_the_fray/ear162f

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Count me as another one who finds this worrysome. Hopefully all is well. I feel like this game is dying for a good trailer.

 

[Booga]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iga/bloodstained-ritual-of-the-night/posts/2356781

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This is actually the best news I've heard all week. Wayforward is so good at platformers, and Bloodstained has lots of potential, but looks so stiff and lifeless (the animation not the Art). It needs the kind of bespoke love and care that Wayforward brings to their projects.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Told you guys that they've been working on it for some time now. Why do you think Wayforward have been so quiet for so long?

 

[Caz]

Much as I love Wayforward...this doesn't fill me with confidence in Bloodstained given how late they're joining it. It would be one thing if they were collaborating from the start but they've only been brought in recently to, presumably, fix up a project with a troubled development.

 

[Braaier]

Nice! This is still a ways off, huh?

 

[mindsale]

Ugh, Mighty Number 10? I hope not, I'm a backer of this.

 

[GeekyDad]

Wow, what a weird and unexpected and completely interesting turn.

 

[Deleted member 42686]

Kinda late. But sounds alright, as long the game ends up being a good thing. Already got enought of the last vania clone dissapointment.

 

[Instro]

Angel-Corlux Score hidden · 35 minutes ago · Stickied comment · edited 31 minutes ago

Hey everyone, we've noticed that some may be misunderstanding this announcement or letting their concerns get the better of them unnecessarily. Let me try and help by repeating and clarifying where possible:

- Bloodstained is coming out in 2019, an exact release date is coming soon, we know what that date is, and will release it according to our marketing plan.

- We received a lot of feedback from the Beta Backer Demo(BBD) overwhelmingly asking for improvement on certain areas like graphical fidelity.

- Our goal is also to have no further delays to the one we already announced, moving the launch to 2019.

- Wanting to deliver as many improvements as we can while also maintaining our launch schedule, 505 Games and ArtPlay have partnered with WayForward, an absolutely amazing studio with a proven track record of excellence especially in the 2D / platformer genre.

- Wayforward has been working with us well before this announcement was made. The announcement comes now because of boring procedural / legal stuff that had to be sorted out first.

- Iga / ArtPlay are still very much in charge of the project, WayForward have simply joined the team to add value to various areas, some of which I've mentioned, while other (very exciting) things we have yet to announce and discuss.

If there's still any confusion behind this news, this should be seen as the proof that we're not just saying "we hear your feedback" from the Beta Backer Demo and moving on, we're actually doing something about it. The delay we announced recently and the additional resources we're investing to work with WayForward (and additional internal resources) are a testament to 505 Games and ArtPlay's commitment to make Bloodstained the best game it can be.

Finally, I would advise a word of caution in getting swept up by anyone making negative claims about the state of the game. I've seen people say that this news means the game will be delayed for a second time or that the game has no content completed, among other claims. Please keep in mind that unless it's messaging from myself (Brand Manager, managing the launch and commercial aspects of the game) or Question (Sr. Community Manager) then it's not official information, and where needed, I will be commenting to point out if something is incorrect.

Thank you everyone for all your support and as always, hit us up if you have questions or feedback! :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bloodstain...ter_update_75_a_hunter_joins_the_fray/ear162f

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Should be added to the OP.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Ugh, Mighty Number 10? I hope not, I'm a backer of this.

Click to shrink...

If Wayforward helped Inafune, it would have turned out a lot better.

 

[Nathan.exe]

Time to update this I guess

 

[Ultimadrago]

Angel-Corlux Score hidden · 35 minutes ago · Stickied comment · edited 31 minutes ago

Hey everyone, we've noticed that some may be misunderstanding this announcement or letting their concerns get the better of them unnecessarily. Let me try and help by repeating and clarifying where possible:

- Bloodstained is coming out in 2019, an exact release date is coming soon, we know what that date is, and will release it according to our marketing plan.

- We received a lot of feedback from the Beta Backer Demo(BBD) overwhelmingly asking for improvement on certain areas like graphical fidelity.

- Our goal is also to have no further delays to the one we already announced, moving the launch to 2019.

- Wanting to deliver as many improvements as we can while also maintaining our launch schedule, 505 Games and ArtPlay have partnered with WayForward, an absolutely amazing studio with a proven track record of excellence especially in the 2D / platformer genre.

- Wayforward has been working with us well before this announcement was made. The announcement comes now because of boring procedural / legal stuff that had to be sorted out first.

- Iga / ArtPlay are still very much in charge of the project, WayForward have simply joined the team to add value to various areas, some of which I've mentioned, while other (very exciting) things we have yet to announce and discuss.

If there's still any confusion behind this news, this should be seen as the proof that we're not just saying "we hear your feedback" from the Beta Backer Demo and moving on, we're actually doing something about it. The delay we announced recently and the additional resources we're investing to work with WayForward (and additional internal resources) are a testament to 505 Games and ArtPlay's commitment to make Bloodstained the best game it can be.

Finally, I would advise a word of caution in getting swept up by anyone making negative claims about the state of the game. I've seen people say that this news means the game will be delayed for a second time or that the game has no content completed, among other claims. Please keep in mind that unless it's messaging from myself (Brand Manager, managing the launch and commercial aspects of the game) or Question (Sr. Community Manager) then it's not official information, and where needed, I will be commenting to point out if something is incorrect.

Thank you everyone for all your support and as always, hit us up if you have questions or feedback! :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bloodstain...ter_update_75_a_hunter_joins_the_fray/ear162f

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I hadn't realized there was another thread for this. This was posted to the Update thread:

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Well, that makes me feel a bit better assuming I can take it at face value. I'm ready to see more again when they're prepared to show it.

 

[boris_]

so in other words the release will be delayed even further

 

[Foffy]

On one hand, I think the fact this game has now had four separate developers involved - IntiCreates, ArtPlay, DICO, and now WayFoward - shows me a sign of trouble, that they can't keep things focused on one team. For example, DICO is there for asset creation, but is WayForward now being used to polish..those same assets?

On the other hand, the "main" team per IGA is about 20 people, so they very clearly need more hands than that for a game of this size.

 

[steviestar3]

I find this worrying TBH. One because they needed to bring in a new dev team so close to release, and two because Wayforward is terrible at metroidvania design. Hopefully they're just being brought in as muscle to polish the game up for release...

 

[Redcrayon]

I'm glad to hear Wayforward have been helping out, I've enjoyed loads of their 2D games (particularly Contra 4 and Aliens: Infestation on DS). The Mummy Remastered was pretty good too.

 

[StarCreator]

For example, DICO is there for asset creation, but is WayForward now being used to polish..those same assets?

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I'm pretty sure DICO is the main dev. Inti was dropped early in the dev cycle; their only lasting contribution is Curse of the Moon.

I find this worrying TBH. One because they needed to bring in a new dev team so close to release, and two because Wayforward is terrible at metroidvania design. Hopefully they're just being brought in as muscle to polish the game up for release...

Click to shrink...

That is exactly the case.

 

[Frozenprince]

This is common practice in software development for large projects. There's nothing "RED FLAG" about it really. Inti offered a contract to help with backend and polishing support for the tail end of active development.

 

[Foffy]

I find this worrying TBH. One because they needed to bring in a new dev team so close to release, and two because Wayforward is terrible at metroidvania design. Hopefully they're just being brought in as muscle to polish the game up for release...

Click to shrink...

I would imagine it's for polish. Enough of the game was uncovered by datamining to give the impression that the game is quite a ways along. The script and voice acting was done a long while ago too.

If WayForward is here because Koji Igarashi and most of his team never really worked on HD games before, that's a pretty good reason for them to be involved in the polishing front. I mean, think about it; the last major game IGA helmed over was Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia on the DS.

 

[Phendrana]

Huh? This late in the game? Honestly this comes off as strange and even troubling to me.

Click to shrink...

.

 

[Why would you do that?]

I always liked the way Bloodstained looked. I felt it captured Iga's Castlevania games perfectly in 3D, even if it did look a little weird. Plus it looked snappy and fun.

My guess is that WayForward was brought in after Inti Creates left a while back. I love both companies for similar reasons, except WayForward already proved themselves in the 3D space as well as the 2D one (Shantae: 1/2 Genie Hero looks fantastic), so I can only say positive things about this.

Also, this is also hardly a Mighty No. 9 situation. Iga is doing everything he can to make the game better by contracting the right outside developers, and at the same time he's not even asking for more backer money.

So I'm not worried about the game at all. I believe they showed off a great game that can only get better now.

 

[Panda Andino]

Time to update this I guess

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I love both inti and Way!

 

[Snkfanatic]

Can we get the Wayforward Pixel Art Team to redo the entire art style too? A dream I know...but that would be amazing. Not the biggest fan of the art so far.

 

[Deleted member 35204]

red flag in my opinion

 

[kubev]

Huh? This late in the game? Honestly this comes off as strange and even troubling to me.

Click to shrink...

I agree to a point. Regardless of the game's current state, however, bringing WayForward in ensures that the end product will at least be better than it is now. I've seen WayForward's logo on a lot of incredible games I've played recently. While WayForward's involvement could mean that the game's development has run into some problems, the decision to bring WayForward in at least signals an acknowledgement that things are beyond the existing team and that Iga wants to ensure that the end product meets the level of quality that he wants it to.

 

[ZeroX]

I thought Pirate's Curse kinda sucked and everything I've seen from the game so far has been lackluster, but I mean, the more hands the better and maybe they'll make up for each other's flaws?

 

[Cymbal Head]

This is...interesting. WayForward doesn't seem like the kind of studio you bring in just for polish and visual fidelity.

 

[JCG]

I don't see any particular downside to this, assuming they have enough money to pay them. While the last backer demo looked promising, it still indicated that the final game was nowhere near complete, much less polished. If receiving additional support from another developer is necessary in order to meet the expectations of fans, rather than disappoint them with a rough release, I am completely fine with their decision to ask for help.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Loved the backer demo, but it's nice to see they took feedback in mind and brought in some more help.

 

[AdolRed]

Nice, a massive last-minute shift in development resources can only mean good things for the finished product.

 

[justiceiro]

Probably a port job.

 

[Dreamwriter]

People who are saying this is too late, realize that the game is due out in "2019", that's possibly an entire year, but even if it's only 6 months, that's plenty of time for adding new people to the project (they aren't replacing anyone, they are adding more people to the project). Every game project I've been on has had people added to the project towards the end of development to help finish it up; usually from within the company but sometimes bringing in people from outside (in fact I was hired once as one of the people to help finish up a game).

 

[StarCreator]

Probably a port job.

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Armature was contracted to handle the Wii U and Vita ports (neither of which exist anymore). I would think if they needed a port job, they'd just have Armature do it as previously agreed.