By Patrick Klepek: https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...mmit-to-gender-fluidity-in-cyberpunk-2077-yet
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Waypoint: CDPR Won't Commit to Gender Fluidity in ‘Cyberpunk 2077’ (Yet)
- Thread starter vinnykappa
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you know this would actually be a pretty good fit for a cyberpunk game that has already deals heavily with identity and body modification
just rip off Saints Row's gender slider
just rip off Saints Row's gender slider
Make all aspects a slider, choose pronouns at character creation screen.
In such a far-flung future, how would this not be a thing?
Saints Row used to have a gender slider.
Sounds like in my opinion they will end up implementing it but they aren't exactly sure how yet? Hopefully they end up figuring it out.
A gender slider a la Saints Row and, I believe, Demon's Souls.
If devs were to cater to every single human characteristic in RPGs they'll never stop working, ever.
Is it worth it to add months of work and millions of euros for a preference of 0.05% of the world's population, let alone the VG market? Probably not.
It's time to accept there are compromises to be made.
Is it worth it to add months of work and millions of euros for a preference of 0.05% of the world's population, let alone the VG market? Probably not.
It's time to accept there are compromises to be made.
What do you expect from Polish developers? Whole country is deeply religious, so this sort of thing I would really not expect. Besides this would have to be somewhat implemented to the story, to make it worthwhile and still it seems like....does any game ever done it, even?
At least they provide a "fluid answer"....
At least they provide a "fluid answer"....
I really don't get the article to be honest. You can create a character however you want, in terms of looks. An Cyberpunk isn't about gender fluidity to my knowledge.
Gender /fluidity/ in a game like Cyberpunk which is gigantic in how the world reacts to you is probably a logistical nightmare.
Until the game comes out we don't know how or if your gender affects character interaction at all. If it doesn't, this would effectively be just a visual option for the character. That's not that much of a nightmare.
Perhaps pronouns would be harder depending on the script. Although just having a "they" neutral option would be sufficient.
Couldn't you just go into a menu and change your pronouns on the fly and keeping character customisation open throughout the game?
"He's a talented hacker" one day, go to bed "she's the best we got", the next, go to bed "they're getting away!"
TBH if you've got a basic character generation capability I don't see broader gender support being that hard. I mean realistically how many options are there in terms of basic physical characteristics?
Well if they can implement that more power to them, but it's disgusting how people are already calling them religious zealots for not doing it (see posts above).
If you have to ask this question, you're not thinking Cyberpunk enough.
How to? Gender is a slider. Reactions to characters are based on the slider. All this means is that if the range is male or female enough, the character gets a male/female response, and if it's more middling the character gets a third response (usually most likely neutral, sometimes, negative, sometimes unsure, sometimes curious, and something comradry-based). It's really not tough to do.
A good cyberpunk game should have this for a lot of things. Gender, race, augmentation level, VISIBLE augmentation level, all dependent on the characters outlook on these things.
I am actually really sad that we are STILL at a point where it is still considered odd to have NPCs do different reactions based on context. We're finetuning combat to the point of offering detailed killcams on the specific part of the brain the bullet hit, but dialogue's still treated like it was 1993, no development whatsoever required, it's a logistical nightmare onoes!
And yet in reality, such stuff is easier to implement than most combat options. By far. It's just more dialogue lines.
TBH, the main disgusting thing here is how disingenuous you are in your postings.
A gender slider (and many other sliders a CYBERPUNK(!) game should be having!) isn't hard. it's not a "logistical nightmare", and your handwringing over "portraying every aspect of humanity" is really absurd.
Cyberpunk is about what it means to be human, a person, how technology and politics and society shape you - literally, in the case of cyberware. A couple sliders here aren't much, they should be the minimum for the genre. Shadowrun Returns is looking to have more varied reactions to your PC than this game, and that's a shame :(
I am getting more and more the impression that CDPR, while not being religious zealots, are not actually into Cyberpunk for anything other than aesthetics. (See the woman-in-bathtub comments) Makes me second guess my interest in the game quite a bit.
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I take it representation doesn't matter to you whatsoever and the majority groups are all that need to be seen i.e. keep the status quo.
Even though representation and inclusiveness makes good business sense as you increase your customer reach. Hollywood is starting to figure this out, as well as certain publishers in the videogame industry.
This would actually be a perfect game for the themes of gender fluidity. It's a world where cybernetic enhancement changes what it means to be human, let alone male or female. Plus, I've got people on my Facebook wall into the queer punk scene, so that fits right in with the "punk" half of cyberpunk.
Yeah I'd be cool if they do it, but if they don't it's ok too.
I have no idea how this would even be implemented.
I thought Gender fluidity was a way that an individual identifies themselves, completely separate from biological sex, which is what the character creator specifies. Am I wrong in this?
Perhaps a "preferred pronoun" setting? But then how would a character who didn't know the protagonist know how to reference them? I hope I'm not coming across as ignorant, but I've no idea how it could possibly work.
I thought Gender fluidity was a way that an individual identifies themselves, completely separate from biological sex, which is what the character creator specifies. Am I wrong in this?
Perhaps a "preferred pronoun" setting? But then how would a character who didn't know the protagonist know how to reference them? I hope I'm not coming across as ignorant, but I've no idea how it could possibly work.
One fucking poster lol, and they throw no aspersions and make no false statements. Poland is a deeply conservative country.
You sound so reactionary to this. I wonder why...
You think Patrick or any other journalist cares? Nobody thinks about the process of developing the game, they just want to see what they want to see.
It's funny how people are saying "just add more voicelines so NPC are saying 'they' instead of 'he' and 'she'". Yeah it's not like you need to record much more voicelines and test the game for a much longer period of time.
I feel like this would be easier in a Bethesda style game. Given how huge Cyberpunk seems to be, implementing this might not be feasible at this time.
I could see this being a post launch update though.
I could see this being a post launch update though.
How would people in the game react to you if you are gender fluid?
If they refer to you as "they" then it just feels artificial because how would a random NPC know your gender.
If you pick gender fluid and people still call you by he/she pronouns then people might get offended.
Seems like too much work for something that so few people would actually use. I doubt it's something they would implement but maybe they'll surprise us.
If they refer to you as "they" then it just feels artificial because how would a random NPC know your gender.
If you pick gender fluid and people still call you by he/she pronouns then people might get offended.
Seems like too much work for something that so few people would actually use. I doubt it's something they would implement but maybe they'll surprise us.
User permanently banned: dismissing gender fluid people, long history of prior infractions.
I'll tell you why. Because CDPR is the only still pure high profile developer and gamers have become so damn entitled that they're ready to witch Hunt even them for not doing an insignificant thing that won't deermined whether the game is good or not and is probably much more hard to do than it's worth.
Like, you say it's just about switching pronouns automatically. That... Doesn't happen in real life. People WILL react to you changing your genre as you go along. And such, for the fluidity not being window dressing they'll have to implement literal thousands of different reactions to recurrent characters. And calling people "they" is not a thing.
As I said, if they do that, awesome, but if they decide it's not worth the hassle in a game that already offers a never before seen scope, it's totally acceptable and not a reason to call them "regressists" or whatever.
Nice bait tho. Happy pride month, fellow queer.
This is a pretty good point, I'm not sure how that would be easy to solve in a big open world rpg game with lots of variables.
Would be a strange post launch update, since it would be apart of the character creator. Seems like something you'd want handled at the beginning.
In progressive western cultures, it is the school of thought that allows for people to freely choose where they stand on a perceived spectrum of gender. For instance, a woman who may identify with some masculine traits may call herself a non-binary individual.
Saints Row 2 had a gender slider. If putting in a slider takes months of dev time....
Another *social analysis* article asking one of the biggest games in the industry to make provisions for a fraction of the global audience. And I don't day that to make it seem like those people don't matter, but this is like the equivalent of asking for a gender fluid superhero in the next Avengers movie. This is the wrong place to start. How about building a community of games at a far smaller level where games don't have to be as many things to as many people.
Asking every AAA dev to put stuff in, or criticizing every popular game that doesn't serve everyone's needs is not how I think it should be done. Everyone is trying to be the next Anita, and it's clear her campaign effected change in the industry but I don't think her approach is going to work in every situation.
These things will become normalized when the artists want to create games reflecting these social issues not when they are disparaged and told to.
Asking every AAA dev to put stuff in, or criticizing every popular game that doesn't serve everyone's needs is not how I think it should be done. Everyone is trying to be the next Anita, and it's clear her campaign effected change in the industry but I don't think her approach is going to work in every situation.
These things will become normalized when the artists want to create games reflecting these social issues not when they are disparaged and told to.
They are completely different games that would treat the genre thing in different ways. Unless you'd just want this fluidity thing to be inconsequential window dressing in which case well that's fine.
You just see what you want to see. It's funny, apparently the finest details of gun combat must be realistically coded, but god forbid a *slider* for reactions is implemented. Because that's totally soooo hard, lol.
Your kind of thinking is what is holding the genre as a whole back. And I don't even mean that on a social level - your bias doesn't even come into it. What I mean is on a gameplay level. The mere fact that you think *sliders* are too much is the very reason why companies don't bother ever putting any effort into dialogue, and why roleplaying games feel so stale, with so little actual reaction to who you play in them.
We're still dealing with dialogue like we did in 1990 CRPGs. No innovation, no effort. And gamers think *sliders* are too complicated. It's a joke.
With that kind of thinking, FPS games would play like Maze War to this day.
Why not? Why can't people ask for what they want in games? It's weird, I don't see you do this for other things gamers keep demanding, such as, say, 60 FPS (which affects me way less than more character variety would). Seems this kind of response only happens with very specific topics.
Wonder why.
What do you mean by 'pure'?
In a world where everyone is interconnected and know about each other's profile instantly, it can be that simple. Nobody is asking them to write thousands of new dialogue lines for reactions to shifting pronouns.
Nobody is saying that. It's thematically appropriate, it's good for the game, the company, and the players that more representative RPGs are out in the mainstream. You're building up a strawman to knock down without engaging what Klepek is saying.
Everything in saints row was a slider. We're they being inclusive or making it so your dude would look funnier in makeup or your chick could have a hilarious beard?
I meant it more in the way that I'm sure the team is already feeling an incredible amount of crunch at the moment. The game has deadlines to meet and I'm not sure on how realistically the incorporation of gender fluidity can be done.
Post-launch would allow them to meet their deadlines while still listening to the community. It's win-win.
I'm sorry but this is reaching hard. That scene has more then just the female harvest indiduval in view, it his many other bodies both genders in plainview. Plus both genders will be present as openly as possible. Don't understand how, that ONE mission translates into "them using cyberpunk as an aesthetic". When it's apart of the 2020 world system.
I mean, the article's not being paticularly disparaging towards them, just requesting the feature if possible. Making it clear there is a demand for increased representation is an importnat first step towards artists choosing to make games regarding it.
I think it would be pretty easy, actually. Provide a few different body types, some overtly masculine or feminine, some more androgynous. Allow a "male" or "female" (and maybe even "neutral") dialogue option. Flexibility in cosmetic outfits. And... yeah, you're pretty much done.
If you're implementing gender choice, there's really not much practical reason not to include it.
If you're implementing gender choice, there's really not much practical reason not to include it.
wait
considering how many people are in this world with a different ethnicity than "caucasian",it's definitely a market worth the effort...but the return for catering to the probably small percentage of people tha consider themselves gender fluid it's nowhere near as big.
there's a limit to how much business sense it makes though..and said limit is how many people do you cater to by changing vs how many people you lose by changing.
considering how many people are in this world with a different ethnicity than "caucasian",it's definitely a market worth the effort...but the return for catering to the probably small percentage of people tha consider themselves gender fluid it's nowhere near as big.
basically, gender is not decided by your genitals but by how you see yourself..with the extreme fluctuating between the two genders at will
If you want a slider to work like a gender option works in Far Cry 5, where nobody cares about who you chose, you never see your character, and NPC almost never pronounce "he" and "she" because recording different voicelines costs too much in a big game, then okay. But I highly doubt that CDPR are doing it like this, otherwise they would've create a character like Geralt.
CDPR are not as rich as EA for example, they can't afford a game with gigantic budget. If you want an option like this Anthem is a much better choice than this.
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