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Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
The piece exists because the alternative she's looking for doesn't really exist, so the comparisons thrown around in this paragraph don't make much sense.



And yet you still decided to use it as a comparison regardless. Nice rhetoric.

That aside, RE2 is not an "example", it's why the piece exists in the first place. If she was writing about a different game, her thoughts would be different. These two elements are intrinsically linked, you can't separate one from the other. If she hadn't played RE2, these thought wouldn't have materialized in the form they have. Cause-effect, get it?


They aren't wild or controversial, you just keep going on irrelevant tangents about the function the piece serves of its framing instead of engaging with what's being said in it.

What is your opinion from the piece that was written is exactly the style of game she is looking for? Because even that to me is jumbled up. It almost implies Life is Strange, but then discusses a zombie game where you can heal people?

To me one minute it sounds like oh well, maybe TWD series by Telltale is the style of game then next I am thinking is it just Resident Evil 2, without a police station and the ability to heal NPCs with herbs?

I know that sounds a little flippant, while the TWD suggestion is more grounded, but that's the problem with the piece. It goes from one angle to another and then finishes on an anecdote about healing real people with a medkit. It's really unfocused and I can't quite draw it together in my head how all of that truly related to RE2 or even the specific game the author apparently wants to be playing?

But as someone called me dense above, maybe I'm just dense and I don't "get it".
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,543
One, thanks for all the kind comments, and even some of the criticisms. It's appreciated. "Waypoint" as an idea isn't going anywhere.

But I also want to address this, after jumping around this thread a bit:



Let's reveal this for what it is: a weaponized alt-right/GamerGate meme. Its origins are me cracking a joke at the game throwing some half-naked women at me, nothing more. What it's been used for, and what its passive mention here makes clear, is a blatant, bad faith attempt to undermine my credibility. Maybe it's possible you don't know that, and I'll try to grant the benefit of the doubt. But based on past history, this usually only comes up from specific people, for specific reasons.

You guys are doing great work and it's a real fucking shame you still have to deal with this nonsense. Thanks for standing up for others and important issues in the industry despite the constant harassement it brings with it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,969
I always laugh when people bring up those old posts of Patrick's as if they're at all reflective of who he is now. It's almost like people say stupid shit when they're young and change over time. Wow, what a wild concept.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I mean isn't the gist of your argument people shouldn't be allowed to write about things the want to so maybe?

Nothing I have said suggest people shouldn't do anything. Write anything you want. Just because an individual finds an opinion on something to be a bit out there does not imply the said person doesn't have a right/ability to write it.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
Nothing I have said suggest people shouldn't do anything. Write anything you want. Just because an individual finds an opinion on something to be a bit out there does not imply the said person doesn't have a right/ability to write it.
The argument is framed as "this doesn't belong in a game review," not "I don't agree with this thing in this particular game review."
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,155
Nothing I have said suggest people shouldn't do anything. Write anything you want. Just because an individual finds an opinion on something to be a bit out there does not imply the said person doesn't have a right/ability to write it.
Dunno why gaming seems to struggle with the concept of people delivering critical readings from a specific lens on any particular work in the medium.
This is stuff that has happened for movies and books for literally decades now. Doesn't feel that weird to me.
 

SoH

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,736
The funny thing about whenever those images are brought out is there are better examples that I think you should speak to at some point from your Giant Bomb days, Patrick, but because a lot of that isn't text searchable it demonstrates they don't care about actually getting to the bottom of a person's "character" and just want to trot out the lowest effort ammo they can.

And I'm not going to drag it out, not here, and not now anyway. I'm not doing their fucking work for them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
Dunno why gaming seems to struggle with the concept of people delivering critical readings from a specific lens on any particular work in the medium.
This is stuff that has happened for movies and books for literally decades now. Doesn't feel that weird to me.
Because games are mature, art, deep, big and important, but only when I say so and only so much
 

AtmaPhoenix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,001
The Internet
Like someone lit the Bat Signal.

Or, perhaps, the Pat-Signal.

In all seriousness, the podcast that Patrick and Rob did after the initial smear campaign was one of the best examples of reflecting on past mistakes, owning up to them, and demonstrating maturity and how people change over time. It's one of the reasons I love the Waypoint crew and, to loop this back around to the topic at hand, I hope they are able to spread their message and keep their content around for years to come under their new banner.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
The argument is framed as "this doesn't belong in a game review," not "I don't agree with this thing in this particular game review."

I wouldn't say doesn't belong, I would say as I've said now countless times it seems to miss the mark in this one instance. One instance.

So whats your point then.

What is your point? No one should speak about something unless they agree with it? This is a forum, last time I checked you'll find a whole range of points here.

Dunno why gaming seems to struggle with the concept of people delivering critical readings from a specific lens on any particular work in the medium.
This is stuff that has happened for movies and books for literally decades now. Doesn't feel that weird to me.

So everything ever written by anyone critiquing movies has been universally accepted and never questioned? I think you'll find if you go into the superhero review topics on this forum you'll find a heck of a lot of debating over movie critics opinion pieces.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,141
I'm into their shit whether they always hit the mark or not. I hope they keep offering up something a bit different than the current gaming media landscape which I often find sleep inducing. Like people in this thread talking about the style of a traditional game review vs. that RE2 article....put a gun to my head I don't care if it fits in a meta critic box or not. Give it to me out of left field. Idk why review obsessed people have go to be so negative about everything except landscaping and pruning the hype of their preferred games.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,155
So everything ever written by anyone critiquing movies has been universally accepted and never questioned? I think you'll find if you go into the superhero review topics on this forum you'll find a heck of a lot of debating over movie critics opinion pieces.
Dude I would love it if you actually questioned the piece and engaged with its points. But all you had to offer so far is "man that's weird man".
Wow so insightful pad yourself on the back. Your reaction feels more like a "this doesn't need to exist" than an actual questioning.

Doesn't help when I look at this thread earlier someone's only take about the monster hunter piece being "Maybe you should consider that the fact that it has never been considered before is most probably because the idea itself is a complete hogwash." Is that really questioning? So introspective.
Sorry but that just feels like gatekeeping critical examination out of games.


Like would people whining about waypoint leverage all the same shallow drivel at this video piece? I just don't get this whole attitude and I feel it also connects back to the garbage tribalism that makes critiquing even just games based on their gameplay alone insufferable on these boards.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Dude I would love it if you actually questioned the piece and engaged with its points. But all you had to offer so far is "man that's weird man".
Wow so insightful pad yourself on the back. Your reaction feels more like a "this doesn't need to exist" than an actual questioning.

Doesn't help when I look at this thread earlier someone's only take about the monster hunter piece being "Maybe you should consider that the fact that it has never been considered before is most probably because the idea itself is a complete hogwash." Is that really questioning? So introspective.
Sorry but that just feels like gatekeeping critical examination out of games.

Like would people whining about waypoint leverage all the same shallow drivel at this video piece?


As a Resident Evil fan, I bloody well did? I've gone from discussing how the expectations of the game being a remake of the original constrained the vision to what it was when it came out. That is a reality of the project. It does stop this one game being something massively different from what it could be.

I spoke about how I know the Resident Evil series has tried different things, the lightgun games being a pretty big change to the formula. Then also how some of the games are more "grounded survival horror", whereas with the newer shit Capcom went a bit nuts with Wesker and other nonsense.

Then I went onto stating how with videogames there is often a lot of suspending belief to enable the player to do things like self-heal, where the NPCs around you turn to zombies after one bite. Or in movies/tv shows that try to mimic reality, main characters die as expected. Even in TWD if someone is bit, they turn. They don't get to use herbs. They don't get to spray themselves and go back to full health like the player.

Then I went on to say how linking an unrelated series of games, but those with some sort of crossover can make sense (Burnout -> Carmageddon).

I mean, what the hell? Unlike some who just call that piece silly I HAVE tried to give my thoughts on why it doesn't click with me.

If you disagree with everything I just said, that's fine, but yourself and others can stop with the "You haven't actually tried to say anything" nonsense.
 

citrusred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,964
What is your point? No one should speak about something unless they agree with it? This is a forum, last time I checked you'll find a whole range of points here.
.

I mean if your writing your opinion you should make some effort to try and get it across yeah. I assume you wouldn't bother replying to so many poeple unless you had a point you were trying to get across.
 

ThatsMyTrunks

Mokuzai Studio
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,622
San Antonio, TX
I'm sure it's been noted in one of the other 13 pages, but both of the OP's posts are articles written by Vice Tech, just shared on the Vice Gaming Twitter. I think we'll still see the journalistic integrity and lack of fear that we've come to expect from and that I love from Waypoint, but I do think we'll get some schlock here and there from the parent company.
 

Foxtastical

Member
Oct 27, 2017
412
Your own postings do enough to undermine your credibility, memes aren't needed to assist.
[mod edit: off-topic content removed]
Feel free to brush these under the rug with some edgelord "just a joke" excuse. It's pretty obvious they show the kind of person you really are.
Are most of the people that are against places like Waypoint just super jealous people that want these jobs?
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
what are you even talking about here

Tendency for humans in a group to want to dominate each other; and the group itself to dominate other groups. Also the push for conformity which leads to in/out dynamics and scape goating. End result is limiting of inquiry and...... it is a tangent and is endemic to all groups, so no point in discussing it here. Sorry.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
I'm impressed by the speed.

It amazes me how someone could be threatened by Patrick to the level of creating multiple accounts to castigate him on here. He's always struck me as unassuming and sincere, regardless of whether I agreed with him on a particular subject or not. (Where is Tokyo Jungle 2 goddammit)
 
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
Tendency for humans in a group to want to dominate each other; and the group itself to dominate other groups. Also the push for conformity which leads to in/out dynamics and scape goating. End result is limiting of inquiry and...... it is a tangent and is endemic to all groups, so no point in discussing it here. Sorry.

jerry.jpg
 

airbagged_

Member
Jan 21, 2019
5,644
Charleston, SC
The RE2 article was a perfect example of what waypoint is/was, an excercise in allowing over qualified academics to work writing flowery, vapid editorial loosely related to whatever videogame was hot that given week. "I wish RE2 let me play as a medic instead of a soldier" is not an interesting critique or perspective, it is a random thought while playing a game stretched out into multiple paragraphs, it doesn't hold any value and it's not entertaining to read.

Waypoint's idea for interesting and original games coverage from multiple perspectives is great, I just don't think they ever got close to achieving it.

As someone who joked about the article when it came out and even felt it didn't resonate with me IN THIS VERY THREAD, to say that it doesn't hold any value/isn't entertaining is ridiculous considering that it's an opinion piece (which I mistakenly thought was a review until it was pointed out to me).
 

ninjabreadman

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
260
One, thanks for all the kind comments, and even some of the criticisms. It's appreciated. "Waypoint" as an idea isn't going anywhere.

But I also want to address this, after jumping around this thread a bit:



Let's reveal this for what it is: a weaponized alt-right/GamerGate meme. Its origins are me cracking a joke at the game throwing some half-naked women at me, nothing more. What it's been used for, and what its passive mention here makes clear, is a blatant, bad faith attempt to undermine my credibility. Maybe it's possible you don't know that, and I'll try to grant the benefit of the doubt. But based on past history, this usually only comes up from specific people, for specific reasons.

Relax, I don't visit the site - that's literally the only "thing" that my brain relates with Waypoint which is why I mentioned it, it doesn't make me a 'specific person' or whatever it is you are implying. Some folks already told me after that it was in the context of a joke, no need to start getting personal.
 

airbagged_

Member
Jan 21, 2019
5,644
Charleston, SC
One, thanks for all the kind comments, and even some of the criticisms. It's appreciated. "Waypoint" as an idea isn't going anywhere.

But I also want to address this, after jumping around this thread a bit:



Let's reveal this for what it is: a weaponized alt-right/GamerGate meme. Its origins are me cracking a joke at the game throwing some half-naked women at me, nothing more. What it's been used for, and what its passive mention here makes clear, is a blatant, bad faith attempt to undermine my credibility. Maybe it's possible you don't know that, and I'll try to grant the benefit of the doubt. But based on past history, this usually only comes up from specific people, for specific reasons.

I watched the video in question and it seemed completely harmless and tongue in cheek. Then I saw the dislikes/comments being disabled... and then realized yup, this reeks of Gamergate BS where they're going to take something like that and present it in extremely bad faith to make Waypoint look like they're overly PC police who can't handle "REAL GAMES!!!!!!!"
 

stump sock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
735
Let's reveal this for what it is: a weaponized alt-right/GamerGate meme.

This is pretty disappointing Patrick. When you and your own website use that image as a thumbnail and joke about it then people are going to pick up on it. It seems really shitty to dismiss people who have picked up on something you guys highlighted as funny as gamergaters or alt-righters or whatever.

If you're tired of it as a meme, I get it, but don't just imply everybody who thought it was funny is a damn nazi.
 

airbagged_

Member
Jan 21, 2019
5,644
Charleston, SC
This is pretty disappointing Patrick. When you and your own website use that image as a thumbnail and joke about it then people are going to pick up on it. It seems really shitty to dismiss people who have picked up on something you guys highlighted as funny as gamergaters or alt-righters or whatever.

If you're tired of it as a meme, I get it, but don't just imply everybody who thought it was funny is a damn nazi.

Maybe his wording was strong but just from the fact that the video was disliked to hell/comments disabled he has a point.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
This is pretty disappointing Patrick. When you and your own website use that image as a thumbnail and joke about it then people are going to pick up on it. It seems really shitty to dismiss people who have picked up on something you guys highlighted as funny as gamergaters or alt-righters or whatever.

If you're tired of it as a meme, I get it, but don't just imply everybody who thought it was funny is a damn nazi.
It's an entirely innocuous joke moment in a stream. The criticism of that moment seems purely outsized.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,543
This is pretty disappointing Patrick. When you and your own website use that image as a thumbnail and joke about it then people are going to pick up on it. It seems really shitty to dismiss people who have picked up on something you guys highlighted as funny as gamergaters or alt-righters or whatever.

If you're tired of it as a meme, I get it, but don't just imply everybody who thought it was funny is a damn nazi.

That's...not what he is saying? He is saying that people weaponized a joke and used it as an argument that this is why he is unable to provide valid and good journalism. Laughing at it as part of the group is a completely different thing from posting it as proof that, actually, Klepek is a hack fraud who is afraid of girls. Which is what happened here and what has happened a lot, if you dare looking at the comments. The mere fact that someone posted the clip here to argue for why he "couldn't take waypoint seriously" is the perfect example of how well this weaponzing of memes works.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,460
Sweden
I had no idea Waypoint was this divisive before this thread.
people who skew towards being a bit more aligned towards gamergate (not necessarily as in being gamergaters, though some certainly are, but as in agreeing, to a certain extent, that social criticism and "politics" should be kept out of games and game criticism) tend to dislike waypoint because the poeple at waypoint take into account politics and social issues in their reviews and thinkpieces.

while, thankfully, directly and explicitly expressing support for gamergate and gamergate views on games and games criticism is not allowed here, shitting on waypoint and deliberately strawmanning and misinterpreting their work, is a way that people can use to dogwhistle their political stance, without stating it outright, which would get them banned
 
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Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
This is pretty disappointing Patrick. When you and your own website use that image as a thumbnail and joke about it then people are going to pick up on it. It seems really shitty to dismiss people who have picked up on something you guys highlighted as funny as gamergaters or alt-righters or whatever.

If you're tired of it as a meme, I get it, but don't just imply everybody who thought it was funny is a damn nazi.
Maybe you should read past what you quoted there. The problem isn't that the video is referenced at all, but rather why. Bad actors tend to bring it up out of the context of it being a joke to try to make him look less credible.