Waypoint |OT| video games...are good

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,687
I get the sense (from the "five-star runtime" stuff) that a lot of Waypoint's do-or-die fans feel differently about this than I do, so maybe I'm just not in the demo, but when they talk happily about their podcasts being like four hours long I'm reminded of that cliche that's like..."it is hard to write a good long novel, and harder to write a good short novel." That's not it at all, the actual phrasing is way more pithy (help?), but the gist being that length is not itself a virtue

that said I know that recording for four hours is not the same as the podcast itself being four hours. I would just really love a more spartan version of a lot of their stuff, because I think they have interesting ideas and viewpoints, but I just don't find enough in there to keep me in it for the entire length. that said, I totally get that the excess and indulgence is a choice and a move, and one that's rare in the age of five-articles-a-day game sites, dozens of podcasts from gaming verticals that cover the exact same daily news items, yadda yadda, so I also think it's cool (even though it prevents me from really ever listening to Waypoint stuff). maybe it's just a divergence of aesthetics!
 

mnz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,921
I'm with you, but people seem to love these ridiculously long podcasts, so I wouldn't want to be a downer. There is some irony in them being on the "respect the player's time" train when it comes to games, though.
 

Avengers23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,522
I'm a fan of longer podcasts that actually feel meaty (which I originally typed "feet meaty," so I guess I'm in the Waypoint thread after all), such as Hardcore History, ThROH the Years, Talking Simpsons, and Faculty of Horror. These episodes feel like they're not wasting time; the conversation last episode about how Austin initially looked up to Kaji and realized upon rewatch that he's a fucking creep was worth the time they spent on it. Knowing the density of these episodes, I'm not surprised that it takes a while to get through them; going episode by episode, Sync Ratios needed about an hour for episodes 14 (the clip show episode), 15, and 16. Considering the number of episodes they're covering each podcast, going long doesn't really surprise me. And I'd rather that they go as deeply as they do because I also hold Evangelion in a special part of my brain and heart.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,688
Chesire, UK
Y'all know you don't have to listen to it all at once?

Especially something less-zeitgeisty like this, where to be truly in-the-moment you're about 20 years too late, just treat it like an audiobook.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
I listen to it in the background and often in sessions. Just saying cause I thought that is more the normal way to listen? Not too sure if every die hard waypoint listener actually manages to just straightup listen to stuff in a single session and doesn't pause.

The pauses the crew takes during the podcast are natural places to take one yourself as well.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,687
Y'all know you don't have to listen to it all at once?

Especially something less-zeitgeisty like this, where to be truly in-the-moment you're about 20 years too late, just treat it like an audiobook.
yeah, I did actually know that I don't have to listen to it all at once! I still think that the length affects the content significantly
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,852
I think I just accept them as deep dives and it all works from there. I mean I'm basically consciously picking up a big anime essay book, as opposed to, say, Panning the Stream's breezy magazine feature.
 
Oct 27, 2017
638
North Carolina
I used to roll my eyes at podcast length but I got an office job recently and now I look at that almost 5 hour runtime and I'm like yes please. Waypoint is the only reason I'm watching Eva.
 

Brakke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,095
Yeah. Five star runtimes is whack. It’s sort of ok for this kind of rewatch show where you could just backlog it to listen to over a month (or come back to it a year later on a road trip or whatever).

But the episodes often feel bloaty. They seem to not be entirely sure who their audience is? Like as far as what they expect audience general knowledge to be. Austin has a habit of regularly digressing from an ongoing conversation to explain some term (like explaining contracts when talking NBA the other day). But I’ve almost never found those helpful or necessary.

All Systems Goku is the only anime podcast in the world.

I know that recording for four hours is not the same as the podcast itself being four hours
If they edit at all, it’s not much.
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,852
that contract explanation stuff was gold dude i had nfi what they were going on about until he did that.

it also made me think about like some kind of Mercenary Company game but where you also had to deal with Seasons and Contract Renewals and the politics/management side of it as well. Like it kinda sounds like three kingdoms as well??!?!?!
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,852
i dunno why but i always think about final fantasy tactics advanced when it comes to mercenary management stuff even though it's really light in that game (and you only want the story characters mostly in that game anyway)
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,064
Makes me think of Battle Brothers.

...But I haven't actually played it so I'm not sure how deep the simulation goes.
 

Actinium

Member
Oct 27, 2017
527
California
I still end every pod satisfied no matter how long so clearly we need more run time, not less.

It's time to go even further beyond.

SIX STAR RUN TIMES
 

SilentMike03

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,990
I don't mind longer episodes if the crew can keep it interesting. Like on a recent pod that was over three hours, there was like a 20 minute stretch of Rob telling an anecdote about how Lu Bu wrecked his army up real bad in some game he was playing. I always enjoy Rob's stories so I didn't mind, but I could see some people not caring for it. And reading the synopsis of EVA ep19, I can see how they would have some things to say.
 

Brakke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,095
Ogre Battle does better roster management than FFTA. Person of Lordly Caliber is good for assembling a huge roster into coherent squads. Knight of Lodis is good for developing stories out of generic soldiers at the individual level.

Pyre should probably be my favorite game, but I’ve tried to get into like 3 times and it never clicked.

that contract explanation stuff was gold dude i had nfi what they were going on about until he did that.
Yeah so... why was it even a topic in the first place? They wouldn’t have five star runtimes if they were better at picking their battles.
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,852
because they want to talk about sport for some reason

i blame rob. rob can make any story weighty with portent and dread
 

deepFlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,377
I haven’t finished the one with the contract thing, but wasn’t that the one they literally introduced with “we were so tired and feverish that you may want to skip this” and “we started with sports”?

you knew what you were getting into
 

spiritfox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,462
I don't mind the length if they're talking in depth about things like the Eva casts, but I rather they tried to limit their runtimes as someone who cannot handle podcasts that run too long. The Bomb/Beastcasts are already testing my limit and I don't need 2 more weekly podcasts that run multiple hours.
 

GlassEmpires

Member
Dec 10, 2018
304
i'm weeks, and therefore days, behind castle superbeast. a decidedly aimless and overlong weekly podcast about two canadiens and the videogames they play
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,852
i've given up entirely on castle superbeast though i still have some old super best friends in rotation when i just need to have some background noise.

honestly if you want to talk about running your runtime into the ground, jes-us.
 

Brakke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,095
Honestly, maybe Auto Chess is Ogre Battle 64-2 though. Think about it. You put your characters on a grid. They fight without direct input. There’s wizards and wyverns and all kind of shit.

One of these days I’m gunna install one of those and then you’ll never see me again.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,064
Austin is missing out on Final Fantasy XIV. I'm just before the intro to Stormblood (2nd xpac) and it's already wrestled some great existential questions about heroism, the nature of Good, and that old chestnut, action & consequences.

I mean... ok, it took 140 hours to reach this point, but dang if it isn't the most enthralling MMO ever. And tbh, the immense scale of time (both in-game and real-world) only adds to the weight of what it does. It is a one of a kind thing. Like, FFXIV is not a game interested in heroes, but in the life of heroes, and that's absolutely fascinating.
Honestly, maybe Auto Chess is Ogre Battle 64-2 though. Think about it. You put your characters on a grid. They fight without direct input. There’s wizards and wyverns and all kind of shit.

One of these days I’m gunna install one of those and then you’ll never see me again.
Perish the thought. None but Ogre Battle can match Ogre Battle. Except Tatics Ogre, curse you words.

You have been corrupted by the Autochess bug. I am excommunicating you from gaming.
 

Brakke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,095
Massive Chalice is a cool roster management game, too.

I bet Brad Muir played Ogre Battle. If he’s on an Auto Chess clone now, maybe he’ll push it toward what I crave.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,714
I much prefer the longer podcasts. Gives them time to talk about the games indepth for a bit. If i'm really not interested in a particular game i can skip.

Most 1 hour or less games podcasts i've listened to barely go into news or what they play or it feels super stiff and formal.

I have a commute and listen to podcasts during sports though. It's not like i have to make time to fit in a podcast.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
I would mind the long podcasts less if there were timestamps (though I understand that it's not an easy thing to do). When I see a 2 hour podcast and read the description and say "well, I don't care about half of these topics", i tend to just delete it, because i can only mash the "skip 2 minutes" buttons so many times.
 

Sulik2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,158
I would mind the long podcasts less if there were timestamps (though I understand that it's not an easy thing to do). When I see a 2 hour podcast and read the description and say "well, I don't care about half of these topics", i tend to just delete it, because i can only mash the "skip 2 minutes" buttons so many times.
I've learned to listen to podcasts at 1.6 speed. It helps greatly, I keep it this way for everything but fictional podcasts where pacing is important.
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,658
Random question, but has Waypoint ever delved into why the Epic Game Store situation sucks and people are unhappy with it? I've yet to hear any journalists talk about this in a way that doesn't feel handwavy at best. And if anyone were to do it justice it'd probably be Waypoint?
 

Sabas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,536
Austin is missing out on Final Fantasy XIV. I'm just before the intro to Stormblood (2nd xpac) and it's already wrestled some great existential questions about heroism, the nature of Good, and that old chestnut, action & consequences.

I mean... ok, it took 140 hours to reach this point, but dang if it isn't the most enthralling MMO ever. And tbh, the immense scale of time (both in-game and real-world) only adds to the weight of what it does. It is a one of a kind thing. Like, FFXIV is not a game interested in heroes, but in the life of heroes, and that's absolutely fascinating.
It is such a tough sell to get people to commit that many hours. Doesn't help the ARR camapign is so uneven. I've only just now finished the in-between stuff from ARR up to Heavensward. I know Austin's also mentioned wanting to get into the Trails/Kiseki games but that's also such a commitment time-wise. And there's not really a solution if you have other commitments in your life, honestly.
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,021
I get the sense (from the "five-star runtime" stuff) that a lot of Waypoint's do-or-die fans feel differently about this than I do, so maybe I'm just not in the demo, but when they talk happily about their podcasts being like four hours long I'm reminded of that cliche that's like..."it is hard to write a good long novel, and harder to write a good short novel." That's not it at all, the actual phrasing is way more pithy (help?), but the gist being that length is not itself a virtue

that said I know that recording for four hours is not the same as the podcast itself being four hours. I would just really love a more spartan version of a lot of their stuff, because I think they have interesting ideas and viewpoints, but I just don't find enough in there to keep me in it for the entire length. that said, I totally get that the excess and indulgence is a choice and a move, and one that's rare in the age of five-articles-a-day game sites, dozens of podcasts from gaming verticals that cover the exact same daily news items, yadda yadda, so I also think it's cool (even though it prevents me from really ever listening to Waypoint stuff). maybe it's just a divergence of aesthetics!
Yeah, I almost wish in their podcast sthey did a quick 30 minute summation of their podcasts, take a break and then go into long in depth conversations about stuff.
 

PBalfredo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,393
Random question, but has Waypoint ever delved into why the Epic Game Store situation sucks and people are unhappy with it? I've yet to hear any journalists talk about this in a way that doesn't feel handwavy at best. And if anyone were to do it justice it'd probably be Waypoint?
It came up on a podcast about a couple of weeks ago and it was super handwavy. For whatever reason, Austin wasn't having it.
 

mnz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,921
Random question, but has Waypoint ever delved into why the Epic Game Store situation sucks and people are unhappy with it? I've yet to hear any journalists talk about this in a way that doesn't feel handwavy at best. And if anyone were to do it justice it'd probably be Waypoint?
They reacted exactly like that from what I remember lol
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,687
I really wish FFXIV had clicked more for me—a lot of people in my orbit are having a great time with it and it’s been fun to hear about it. also very fun to follow Jack de Quidt getting into it. unfortunately i’m just, like, congenitally uninterested in watching any cutscenes at all in an MMO, and the actual systems design didn’t really get its hooks in me. real good character customization, though
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,687
Not really relevant though? It's not like the whole Epic situation is an Epic vs Valve one as much as Epic wants to try and trick people into thinking it is.
For a lot of devs and publishers, the decision to publish something on the EGS is fundamentally contrasted to having a similar rollout on Steam. not sure what your argument here is, or what you think the “trick” is