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Waypoint+ |OT| "Fuck Capitalism, Go Home"
- Thread starter Mezentine
- Start date
Patrick's Fire Emblem article is very good, and an enjoyable read, but he's always such a strange writer for me because he balances on the edge of fairly straight-laced reporting/writing but can't seem to resist putting minor digs or his own overt personal opinion in brackets or so. It's not a problem per say, it just leads to the ol ropeadope where I'm comfortable in one track and then suddenly I'm off veering into another.
I'm listening to the outtakes/highlights/whatever this is from the past 20 minutes of the last eva podcast and Patrick was telling a "story"about how Misato drinking beer reminded him of how he and his wife used to drink a lot of beer
Why does this 35 year old man still talk like a college freshman, lol
I haven't listened to the whole pod but re: the misogyny and slut shaming
it's sooooo much worse when you consider how the show itself sexualizes Misato (and the 14 year olds) both inside and outside of the show
I was google Misato figures a few weeks ago and this was the first thing that popped up in their shopping suggestion widget thing
anyway I picked up a postcard to mail my MM level to Patrick and even if he doesn't play the level I'm sure he'll like the postcard
it's sooooo much worse when you consider how the show itself sexualizes Misato (and the 14 year olds) both inside and outside of the show
I was google Misato figures a few weeks ago and this was the first thing that popped up in their shopping suggestion widget thing
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Aren't all figurines aimed at perverts?
Anyway, a charitable reading of the Misato slut shaming would be "why do I keep hooking up with this creep that harasses me and treats me like shit?" Is it the fact that she's having sex at all, or the fact that she's having sex with Kaji because she has intimacy and self worth hangups that's causing the internal monologue?
Anyway, a charitable reading of the Misato slut shaming would be "why do I keep hooking up with this creep that harasses me and treats me like shit?" Is it the fact that she's having sex at all, or the fact that she's having sex with Kaji because she has intimacy and self worth hangups that's causing the internal monologue?
Yeah, this podcast waa bad and took a cynical approach to Anno and the movie. I can't really agree with the viewpoint of any of the crew here which took the most cynical approach. Patrick is also the worst bro in this. It's no surprise that he doesn't like anime with his college bro attitude treating it like a immature medium.
I could have done with him leaving out his "pfffft, yeah, okay"s in the background
This some sort of scat thing?Incorrect.
I'm all about differing perspectives but I simply have better things to spend my time with than 4 hours of cynical hyperbole. When Rob said it was, "a show so completely lacking in empathy" is when I jumped out. I just find that perspective flabbergasting. Truthfully, this makes me less interested in Waypoint as a whole going forward. They so badly missed the mark on this.
Yeah, I've lost my interest in the crew after this terrible episode that casted EoE has something that is not art. It's a clear disrespect of Gainax and the hard work they went through when making this. The film isn't perfect, but it's much better than what they've talked about during this podcast. I'll stick to other better opinionated critics that understand what Anno was going for with this movie.
The sexualization of minors and characters reduced to archetypes throughout that show would obviously lead to very unflattering readings of every theme and scene, I'm sure
Nah, they are absolutely "fairer" than people here are giving them credit for (re: They're still overall negative on it but it's not this absolute pillaging and shitting on the show).
You're taking a snide comment Patrick made and extrapolating that as the entire groups' viewpoint. Besides, it's not and should not be sacrosanct to criticize Gainax and Evangelion and how it (poorly) handles its female characters by its closing.
You're taking a snide comment Patrick made and extrapolating that as the entire groups' viewpoint. Besides, it's not and should not be sacrosanct to criticize Gainax and Evangelion and how it (poorly) handles its female characters by its closing.
I don't have a problem with most of their critiques and how poorly it treats women. I generally agree with most of their complaints and think about how better written this show could've been given a better writer. However, it's difficult for me to join them on their bashing of EoE as I believe it's one of the best directeted/edited films ever made. The cinematography in this film is too good for me to ignore. I also believe Shinji's message of trying again after making a mistake and ruining the world and being strong enough to try one more time is powerful amidst the tragedy that is EoE. Eva is a messy show and I get the complaints. It's hard to hear people hating on something I think is nearly perfect.
Wasn't that in reference to the interpretation of the opening of EoE being a condemnation of the sexualization of Asuka? I think its fair to pfft that idea considering previous instances in the show and Anno's later returns to doing the same thing in 2.22.
I agree with most of their critiques but I still get mad at Rob and Patrick's checking out. Things are messy especially in 25 and 26, but just the hate they have for it bums me out, especially when I doubt any of them will return to the show and gain appreciation for things.
He did it several times over the last few podcast episodes. Usually whenever Austin floated a theory or interpretation that was slightly positive, or the lore stuff that he kept saying he wanted, lol
It's that in combination with him admitting that he was half paying attention during the back half of episodes and movie that annoys me about his dismissive interjections. I didn't like Rob's negativity either, but at least he was presenting a thesis on why he hated it and it was terrible. I don't need the audio equivalent of youtube comments as background noise while the others are talking for 4 hours.
I've sent this in as a question though who knows if they will even looked at it, but now I'm wondering how they view some post-Eva works now that they have the context of eva, such as nier automata. Especially seeing that Patrick actually loves nier automata lol
Are they supposed to do a wrap up episode? If not, I doubt they'll ever talk about it other than an occasional glancing diss again
That's a good question, though.
Ya, I get it. I personally find it an interesting exercise to hear people critique things I enjoy but with something that ends up being as emotionally resonating as Evangelion, I can get why people want to be protective of it. I get it, I just find it a bit amusing.
I found Rob's observation of Shinji and rest of the cast falling into base concepts ( Shinji becoming the embodiment of depression rather than simply being a character who suffers from it) somewhat insightful. It reminded me of my lack of interest in Automata where I felt that game cared more for delivering ~themes~ and messages rather than full character arcs (where as Nier was sort of the opposite where it delivered on a stellar cast but wasn't as cohesive around a singular theme). It gave me some food for thought about what I just don't like about Evangelion. It's a show I don't really like without being able to *really* put a finger on it aside from hating what they do with Misato in End of Eva.
edit: As an aside, since it was brought up, I adore David Lynch and his films and love the meandering pace and just *living* in an emotion as so many of his scenes often do. Yet I find the comparison to Gainax and Anno a bit amusing and even laughable. Lynch absolutely nails surrealism within the framework of film and to say Evangelion finds a similar level of success to be simply untrue.
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I mean it could be question bucket thing for a regular epsiode, but that thing is a lottery lol.
I'm not sure if a quick follow up while some of the details were still in their mind, or something months down the road when some of the sting has worn off, would be a better time for them to take a question like that.
The massive podcast format for this Eva rewatch was dud overall and it clearly showed in the last episode. Rob and Patrick were so fed up with the show (and likely the podcast format) that it made for a pretty exhausting listen, especially whenever Cado's thoughts were more or less completely dismissed whenever he spoke up. This also led to them defaulting to the absolute least charitable interpretations of what was presented, to the point where they throw in jab's at Anno's intent in support of said interpretations while also dismissing authorial intent when Cado brought it up in defense of something.
And no disrespect to Patrick but I don't think he's particularly good at this type of deep-dive media critique. Maybe his utter disinterest made him not bother trying but to have basically zero insightful commentary after ~20 hours of podcasts is something. If they do this again with any series featuring this many episodes Austin needs to drop the scene-by-scene summaries, far too much wasted time.
You can hear this when their frankly galaxy brain take on Asuka's death in EoE. Also Danielle's point about the masculinity of instrumentality is a (potentially interesting) reach that needed way more unpacking.
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Damn some serious salt in here. I can be sympathetic to being upset about hearing people who you respect tear apart a piece of media you enjoy, but at the same time I feel like a lot of the reactions here are not acknowledging various positives they said and the contextual framing that Austin spoke to with their criticism of these pieces.
I really enjoyed Austin's description of how he talked about the difference between the way you ingest media early in life when you are forming your perspective and being introduced to new ideas vs. later in life as you develop more media literacy. Also enjoyed his breakdown of how he understands and is sympathetic to why people hold tightly to certain pieces of media because of how they affect you on a personal level. How when something hits a particular nerve in you, you can often find yourself rushing to rationalize every misstep that piece of media makes, or provide a lot of heavy lifting in your reading that isn't in the actual piece of media because there is a core piece to it that is incredibly validating to you and you want to hold onto that. He brings up Patrick's love of Lost. Which is particularly funny to me because Patrick has talked about how he loved the ending of Lost and seemed to have the exact opposite sort of view point on Lost as he does on Eva in that he is dismissive of Lost's failed making good of various lore and mystery in favor of trying to make character endings to the forefront. Where here with Eva he is dismissive of the character arcs/portrayal of depression in favor of wanting more lore content.
Danielle also spoke to how Cado's personal reading on ep. 25 helped her view things differently.
I also liked the back and forth between Rob and Austin with regard to how Rob framed a large part of his exasperation with the show around Shinji being put through the same line of questioning as he had already been before, and Austin giving his read on how depression is full of relapses and how Shinji finds new reasons to push forward each time.
I thought it was very insightful generally speaking, and I really appreciated the podcast series as a whole. They put to words a lot of the feeling I had watching the show, and while I my own opinion of the show might be slightly more positive than some of the more dismayed on the pod, I think largely they brought a really good and harsh eye to the show while still finding ways to compliment it. The only real bit of salt in here I resonate with is Patrick really did not bring much to the series once he lost interest. Which on one hand I can sympathize with, if a piece of media has completely betrayed your interest I get why you stop trying to dig in and have less to say. That said this is a piece of "content" for a website where the whole point of the series was to take in Eva for what it is and see what you have to say. It's not great "content" to be largely absent from much discussion because you aren't into it. He pretty much only talked when called on and never worked to interject or engage anyone in a discussion of their take.
I really enjoyed Austin's description of how he talked about the difference between the way you ingest media early in life when you are forming your perspective and being introduced to new ideas vs. later in life as you develop more media literacy. Also enjoyed his breakdown of how he understands and is sympathetic to why people hold tightly to certain pieces of media because of how they affect you on a personal level. How when something hits a particular nerve in you, you can often find yourself rushing to rationalize every misstep that piece of media makes, or provide a lot of heavy lifting in your reading that isn't in the actual piece of media because there is a core piece to it that is incredibly validating to you and you want to hold onto that. He brings up Patrick's love of Lost. Which is particularly funny to me because Patrick has talked about how he loved the ending of Lost and seemed to have the exact opposite sort of view point on Lost as he does on Eva in that he is dismissive of Lost's failed making good of various lore and mystery in favor of trying to make character endings to the forefront. Where here with Eva he is dismissive of the character arcs/portrayal of depression in favor of wanting more lore content.
Danielle also spoke to how Cado's personal reading on ep. 25 helped her view things differently.
I also liked the back and forth between Rob and Austin with regard to how Rob framed a large part of his exasperation with the show around Shinji being put through the same line of questioning as he had already been before, and Austin giving his read on how depression is full of relapses and how Shinji finds new reasons to push forward each time.
I thought it was very insightful generally speaking, and I really appreciated the podcast series as a whole. They put to words a lot of the feeling I had watching the show, and while I my own opinion of the show might be slightly more positive than some of the more dismayed on the pod, I think largely they brought a really good and harsh eye to the show while still finding ways to compliment it. The only real bit of salt in here I resonate with is Patrick really did not bring much to the series once he lost interest. Which on one hand I can sympathize with, if a piece of media has completely betrayed your interest I get why you stop trying to dig in and have less to say. That said this is a piece of "content" for a website where the whole point of the series was to take in Eva for what it is and see what you have to say. It's not great "content" to be largely absent from much discussion because you aren't into it. He pretty much only talked when called on and never worked to interject or engage anyone in a discussion of their take.
Their takes are fine. Eva, particuarily it's ending, has always had plenty of people that dislike it.
I do think they often ended up in the least charitable way to view things though.
Also lastly, i think EOE being a "fuck you" to it's audience is overblown in discussion. Not by waypoint, just in general. It makes a few jabs but i never felt EOE was out to destroy what people loved about the series aside from denying the characters a clear win at the end.
I do think they often ended up in the least charitable way to view things though.
Also lastly, i think EOE being a "fuck you" to it's audience is overblown in discussion. Not by waypoint, just in general. It makes a few jabs but i never felt EOE was out to destroy what people loved about the series aside from denying the characters a clear win at the end.
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Though I'm glad they and especially Rob came to the same conclusion I did. If you like Asuka as a character, fuck the whole fucking franchise for being just an exercise in undercutting her as a strong, outspoken female character.
I feel like Asuka's character still succeeds despite all the shit thrown at her though. She resolves some of her own trauma, she rejects shinji's nonsense and she rejects instrumentality.
I feel like others suffer more from being turned into plot devices/stand ins for something else. The biggest failing of the ending is definetly that it casts aside most of the cast and focuses almost entirely on shinji though. Despite liking his character, there was more to the show than just his journey.
So much salt that you can package it up and sell it as Evangelion bath salt.
Which already exists, BTW.
Or, use the salt to dust Evangelion chips, which also already exist:
Which already exists, BTW.
Or, use the salt to dust Evangelion chips, which also already exist: