Waypoint |OT| video games...are good

Oct 26, 2017
10,652
I don't know if it's because I was looking for it because of the discussion, but was today's Waypoints a fair bit louder than their usual casts?
 
Oct 27, 2017
182
Has there been any word on their streaming situation? (I know they lost the studio but things like the XCOM 2 stream were run from home setups and haven't happened in ages -- just wondering if I missed word of it being cancelled or something)
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,419
Has there been any word on their streaming situation? (I know they lost the studio but things like the XCOM 2 stream were run from home setups and haven't happened in ages -- just wondering if I missed word of it being cancelled or something)
They moved away from streaming and focused more on podcasts as of a few months ago. I think we've had a stream or two since then but it's not really something to expect at this point.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,336
I'm glad that lore reasons has been confirmed to be a seasonal type of series. (If I understood it right it's ideally weekly once a lore series has been decided but with breaks between finishing off a franchise)
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,006
I wish they would cover it, but in the mean time does anyone know WHY kingdom hearts has so much, seemingly completely unesscessary lore?

From a business angle, does it really help them sell any more games?

From a creative angle, does it really add anything to the series for the general player.

This question must go back to the time of kh1, but surely the Disney universe and easy RPG shenanigans are enough of a draw? All you need is a generic "good guys, bad guys" story and you're done?

I can understand using lore and back story to create a sense of place, and make a world feel "real" or get you invested in the consequences...but this doesn't seem to happen at all in kh series? Every Disney world is unique, with the sense of place coming from nostalgia, and the lore always boils down to a good guy versus bad guy fight anyway.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,971
Have you heard of shonen anime

Not to be blunt, but Kingdom Hearts is basically a mash-up of themes and ideas from Naruto and Bleach

I think if anything it should lean as hard as possible into the crazy
 
Oct 25, 2017
472
Austin saying ‘ I don’t give a fuck about no Paopou fruit’ was the hardest I’ve laughed in a long time. I can see them start to unravel due to the increasing levels of bullshit in the lore and it’s amazing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,419
I wish they would cover it, but in the mean time does anyone know WHY kingdom hearts has so much, seemingly completely unesscessary lore?

From a business angle, does it really help them sell any more games?

From a creative angle, does it really add anything to the series for the general player.

This question must go back to the time of kh1, but surely the Disney universe and easy RPG shenanigans are enough of a draw? All you need is a generic "good guys, bad guys" story and you're done?

I can understand using lore and back story to create a sense of place, and make a world feel "real" or get you invested in the consequences...but this doesn't seem to happen at all in kh series? Every Disney world is unique, with the sense of place coming from nostalgia, and the lore always boils down to a good guy versus bad guy fight anyway.
I think the answer is as simple as being it's what Nomura wants to do. I get the impression that Nomura is pretty much given free reign to do whatever he wants with the series (3 makes this really obvious) and so he does exactly that.

A large part of why the amount of lore blew up is due to wanting everything to be canon and also implementing as many of his ideas as possible, which often involve retcons that then have to be explained away in a complicated fashion.
 
Oct 25, 2017
544
Florida
I wish they would cover it, but in the mean time does anyone know WHY kingdom hearts has so much, seemingly completely unesscessary lore?

From a business angle, does it really help them sell any more games?

From a creative angle, does it really add anything to the series for the general player.

This question must go back to the time of kh1, but surely the Disney universe and easy RPG shenanigans are enough of a draw? All you need is a generic "good guys, bad guys" story and you're done?

I can understand using lore and back story to create a sense of place, and make a world feel "real" or get you invested in the consequences...but this doesn't seem to happen at all in kh series? Every Disney world is unique, with the sense of place coming from nostalgia, and the lore always boils down to a good guy versus bad guy fight anyway.
All I can guess is it's the result of giving one guy (Nomura) complete creative control with what seems to be zero oversight/editing/etc. Dude has zero restraint, for better of for worse. Basically the same thing that happened to Metal Gear as that series went on.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,971
All I can guess is it's the result of giving one guy (Nomura) complete creative control with what seems to be zero oversight/editing/etc. Dude has zero restraint, for better of for worse. Basically the same thing that happened to Metal Gear as that series went on.
The convolution in MGS is nothing compared to Kingdom Hearts

And both are far more interesting than the story-by-committee you see in a lot of major western games
 
Oct 25, 2017
544
Florida
The convolution in MGS is nothing compared to Kingdom Hearts

And both are far more interesting than the story-by-committee you see in a lot of major western games
For sure. I'll always prefer a game just fucking go for it like KH than the alternative.

If they're gonna make this a series (and stick with recent releases), Resident Evil and Ace Combat would be fun.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,032
I wish they would cover it, but in the mean time does anyone know WHY kingdom hearts has so much, seemingly completely unesscessary lore?

From a business angle, does it really help them sell any more games?

From a creative angle, does it really add anything to the series for the general player.

This question must go back to the time of kh1, but surely the Disney universe and easy RPG shenanigans are enough of a draw? All you need is a generic "good guys, bad guys" story and you're done?

I can understand using lore and back story to create a sense of place, and make a world feel "real" or get you invested in the consequences...but this doesn't seem to happen at all in kh series? Every Disney world is unique, with the sense of place coming from nostalgia, and the lore always boils down to a good guy versus bad guy fight anyway.
Some people mistake complicated for deep.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,266
I wish they would cover it, but in the mean time does anyone know WHY kingdom hearts has so much, seemingly completely unesscessary lore?

From a business angle, does it really help them sell any more games?

From a creative angle, does it really add anything to the series for the general player.

This question must go back to the time of kh1, but surely the Disney universe and easy RPG shenanigans are enough of a draw? All you need is a generic "good guys, bad guys" story and you're done?

I can understand using lore and back story to create a sense of place, and make a world feel "real" or get you invested in the consequences...but this doesn't seem to happen at all in kh series? Every Disney world is unique, with the sense of place coming from nostalgia, and the lore always boils down to a good guy versus bad guy fight anyway.
It's easier to make some non mainline game feel important if the lore is basically meaningless but also intertwined.

Also why not? Waypoint unpacking and reacting to the lore means it is all worthwhile.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,336
Random musing, any particular reason waypoint doesn't just brand all their podcasts with point names like view/watchpoint, lorepoint etc? Not that it matters all too much but I did think their Be good and rewatch it name is a bit of a mouthful and for a while it wasn't easy to find through google(but I think that worked itself out not a 100% sure though cause I just bookmark the podbay fm page).
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,006
It's easier to make some non mainline game feel important if the lore is basically meaningless but also intertwined.

Also why not? Waypoint unpacking and reacting to the lore means it is all worthwhile.
I guess...I don't know, it just seems like an awful lot of effort to stuff a series of games with nonsense.

Edit - a few other people replied to me too, thank you I appreciate it! I thought I must be missing something but maybe I'm nit
 
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Oct 27, 2017
8,632
Random musing, any particular reason waypoint doesn't just brand all their podcasts with point names like view/watchpoint, lorepoint etc? Not that it matters all too much but I did think their Be good and rewatch it name is a bit of a mouthful and for a while it wasn't easy to find through google(but I think that worked itself out not a 100% sure though cause I just bookmark the podbay fm page).
I had a bit of trouble finding it on Spotify myself, but I figured that was because Spotify's search is awful.

However, the name itself really works, because it's this excellent Waypoint reference combined with what the pods are actually about.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,857
They absolutely have to do Lore Reasons: Metal Gear Solid.

I had a bit of trouble finding it on Spotify myself, but I figured that was because Spotify's search is awful.

However, the name itself really works, because it's this excellent Waypoint reference combined with what the pods are actually about.
When you search for Be Good and Rewatch It it's right there for me in the search results next to Waypoint Radio.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,632
Lore Reasons: The Zelda Timeline
When you search for Be Good and Rewatch It it's right there for me in the search results next to Waypoint Radio.
Hmm, when I search for it the first result is BGARW The First Purge, which is in the Waypoint feed.

It is listed with the pods below, though. I don't think I noticed that last time.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,652
I wish they would cover it, but in the mean time does anyone know WHY kingdom hearts has so much, seemingly completely unesscessary lore?

From a business angle, does it really help them sell any more games?

From a creative angle, does it really add anything to the series for the general player.

This question must go back to the time of kh1, but surely the Disney universe and easy RPG shenanigans are enough of a draw? All you need is a generic "good guys, bad guys" story and you're done?

I can understand using lore and back story to create a sense of place, and make a world feel "real" or get you invested in the consequences...but this doesn't seem to happen at all in kh series? Every Disney world is unique, with the sense of place coming from nostalgia, and the lore always boils down to a good guy versus bad guy fight anyway.
It only has all that lore because it's spread across so many games on so many platforms and they just keep adding shit and backfilling unnecessarily. Like the only games that originally came out on the same one were KH1 and 2 on the PS2.

They absolutely have to do Lore Reasons: Metal Gear Solid.
I at first thought the same but it's only gonna get really fun timeline-wise once they hit the lunacy that is MGS2 and then stop being fun because MGS4 is a dumb pile of trash that isn't even funny to make fun of.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,652
If they do that they have to play the soundtrack.
The unenlightened masses
They cannot make the judgment call
Give up free will forever their voices won’t be heard at all
Display obedience
While never stepping out of line
And blindly swear allegiance
Let your country control your mind

(Let your country control your soul)

Live in ignorance
And purchase your happiness
When blood and sweat is the real cost
Thinking ceases, the truth is lost
Don’t you worry
You’ll be told exactly what to do
I give my people the lives they need
The righteous will succeed

The fires of greed will burn the weak
So we’ll make freedom obsolete
Making whole the fabric of society
Collective consciousness controlled as you will see

MIND CONTROL

Let your country control your soul
Let your country control your soul
Let your country control your soul
Let your country control your soul
Extremely woke ace political commentary.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,204
I was trying to think of western franchises that would be good Lore Reasons and apart from Elder Scrolls which Austin already pointed out the only other thing I'd love to see explained to someone would be Planescape Torment maybe? Maybe Dragon Age. I feel like off the top of my head anyway most western franchises are pretty straightforward

I really like this format where there's a 'loremaster' (Jan) and two teams who have approached the Lore from different directions but without actually playing the game.