Waypoint |OT| video games...are good

deepFlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,780
I can agree it was weird to bring a game to Waypoints but it’s not like they didn’t explain why- it was so everyone would have spent time with it so they could discuss it in that way, vs normal Waypoint Radio where there’s no expectation of anyone doing that and only Rob would have played it.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,372
What part? The one where Rob positions himself as a counter point to the whole sekiro debate by asking why even just a week before the topic of discussion around that game were somewhat relishing in the difficulty? I thought that was pretty interesting. I didn't take it as Austin going defensive that felt more like a setup so they could talk about the editorial concerns that go into how they cover certain things. *shrug* I didn't really get that there was much to be defensive about in the sekiro debate just them trying to present the discussion in a more interesting way than the absolute trash you can suffer through in the several era forum threads. Another strong reason why reading that discussion as Austin going "defensive" seems weird to me is that when you listen to it they all clearly share the opinion that those games should allow different modes of play.
It all was basically prefaced with them coming from a point of view that sees all ways of play for any game as valid and then exploring that stance more.
 

Brakke

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Oct 27, 2017
3,401
Austin’s play here, that he can’t do good Sekiro coverage because of spoilerphobes, and so does bad Sekiro coverage instead, is a lot.
 

Holundrian

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Oct 25, 2017
3,372
Well I wouldn't expect anything else from someone that doesn't even follow what an analogy is xD.
Suffice to say that's a pretty damn idiotic takeaway you can have from that conversation.
And that's not even going into what other places had better sekiro discussions/coverage. Certainly none of the bigger outlets had any interesting takes on the game. So if waypoint is bad coverage I guess they're the king of the trash heap.
 
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Brakke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,401
Well I wouldn't expect anything else from someone that doesn't even follow what an analogy is xD.
Suffice to say that's a pretty damn idiotic takeaway you can have from that conversation.
Your analogy was useless. It didn’t tell me anything about the topic and it didn’t even tell me anything about Horizon. You were talking to yourself with that. A analogy is supposed to illustrate an argument. You didn’t make one.

Anyway, Austin straight up said it,


He has an interesting angle on animal bodies and on the sickness but he 1) didn’t really do it on this show and he 2) didn’t do it so far because of spoilerphobes. Maybe that’s a responsible editorial decision, I wouldn’t know. I trust him that he’s got reason to believe it. But if the state of games criticism consumption is that the decision is sound, then woof.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,372
Your analogy was useless. It didn’t tell me anything about the topic and it didn’t even tell me anything about Horizon. You were talking to yourself with that. A analogy is supposed to illustrate an argument. You didn’t make one.

Anyway, Austin straight up said it,


He has an interesting angle on animal bodies and on the sickness but he 1) didn’t really do it on this show and he 2) didn’t do it so far because of spoilerphobes. Maybe that’s a responsible editorial decision, I wouldn’t know. I trust him that he’s got reason to believe it. But if the state of games criticism consumption is that the decision is sound, then woof.
You're pretty bad at comprehending things I gotta say. Also the analogy was insanely straightforward can't help it if you can't follow something that simple. Also to say it's because of spoilerphobes is being reductive to a point that it blows my mind. But again I guess it's in line for someone that can't follow the simplest of analogies

1. Sometimes what they can talk about is determined by embargo. That can shape the type of discussions they can have.
2. There are articles that he would want to write that don't get as many clicks during the launch window. His example are lore focused articles. So it doesn't make financial sense to go down that route yet. He expands that based on that it's more natural that early coverage is more mechanics(broad term as he put it) orientated
3. People already complain that Austin monologues way too much and takes over the podcast too much. That's why he doesn't feel like it's smart to get into certain things when he is the only one that has finished the game at that point. It would make for better content if he saves those takes for when more of the waypoint crew has finished game and they can have an actual discussion on those things instead of him just going off solo for 30 minutes.

That's just from my memory from the podcast I probably missed something. But sure it's just cause of spoilerphobes LOL.

Guess no choice since waypoint is so bad at sekiro coverage to go back and listen to other places go about "how sekiro ranks within the souls franchise". Cause that's the real good riveting stuff.

edit: Oh looking back actually our first disagreement was about you being reductive I see guess that's your shtick. *shrug*
 
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Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,372
hey, Holundrian, you should be way less condescending
Austin’s play here, that he can’t do good Sekiro coverage because of spoilerphobes, and so does bad Sekiro coverage instead, is a lot.
Pretty hypocritical when that is the tone that was set in the conversation especially when it's condescension based on being wrong.
Basically calling for civility in this case and doing tone policing is horseshit. I adjust my tone appropriately to how people set the tone.
Basically if people post intelligently and respectful I'm going to meet that.
 
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benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,450
You haven't whatsoever matched your tone to his. He was criticizing a piece of media, and even if his criticisms were harsh (and they weren't!) they were arguments about the effectiveness of that media. You have called his arguments "idiotic" and repeatedly accused him of not being able to understand what you're saying. Those things are not equivalent, and there's nothing "hypocritical" about pointing that out.

He isn't stupid, you're just being incredibly, unnecessarily rude.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,372
You haven't whatsoever matched your tone to his. He was criticizing a piece of media, and even if his criticisms were harsh (and they weren't!) they were arguments about the effectiveness of that media. You have called his arguments "idiotic" and repeatedly accused him of not being able to understand what you're saying. Those things are not equivalent, and there's nothing "hypocritical" about pointing that out.

He isn't stupid, you're just being incredibly, unnecessarily rude.
Basically agree to disagree :) on matching his tone.
As far as I'm concerned he was being wrong and being reductive while insisting that his inability to grasp the simplest of explanation is justified. That is the tone that was set. You don't get to complain about being aggressively called out for that. That is indeed hypocritical.
But I guess if that's acceptable way of "criticizing" as you call it around here I see no reason to put anymore effort into my responses.

So meeting that level of reductiveness my response to you becomes: "Stop whining." (cause context and reasoning don't matter, I'm just criticizing your response.)
 
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Brakke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,401
his inability to grasp the simplest of explanation
Ok. Since this is so important to you, let's talk about it. We were talking about comparisons of Souls games and Sekiro. I claimed they're not so very different. Your response was to call my claim like claiming that "Horizon is just a bad version of Zelda Breath of the Wild." You say that these are similar claims. But... what makes them similar? You don't say. I didn't really play Horizon, so I can't really judge whether Horizon and Breath of the Wild are in fact similar games.

You accused me of "operat[ing] under a perspective that seeks more to square off similarities than recognize differences between two given things." But you didn't actually apply to your schema to Sekiro vs. Souls; and you didn't apply your schema to Horizon vs. Breath of the Wild. So you haven't illustrated why it's good (or why the schema that you accuse me of adopting -- which I hadn't done anyway -- is bad).

So... why bring in Horizon? I wasn't talking about it. You don't know what I think about Horizon. You yourself didn't talk about it in any way that helps anybody understand anything.

Here's the logic of your analogy from my perspective:

-> you made something up about why I think Souls and Sekiro are similar
-> you asserted without explaining that the approach you accused me of using would produce a take that, as far as I know, is actually the correct one
-> the critical approach (that you invented) produced -- according to you -- a bad result when you applied it to one set of games and therefore whatever result it produces when applied on a completely different set of games must be bad

But at no point in this chain do you make the case that Souls and Sekiro produce different experiences. That was the topic and you just totally abandoned it! The point of an analogy is illustrate a point about the topic. Instead you went and had an argument with yourself about Horizon and then reported back that you'd solved the point. Which, fair enough, I guess. I was being flip so you're not obligated to engage with a coherent argument. But now you're parading around like that Horizon "analogy" had substance in turn when... nah.

You don't get to complain about being aggressively called out for that. That is indeed hypocritical.
Who is being hypocritical tho? Who is the "you" in this sentence? I haven't complained about your tone.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,372
Chill out Brakke. I have accepted that you can't understand the Horizon analogy. I've moved on now you should too. :)
If it makes you happy "Sekiro and Souls are the same game" basically you were right all along. There you go :) That's my peace offering.
 

Brakke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,401
There’s a bit on this final Lore Reasons where Patrick is talking about trans listeners writing in about how KH helped them find their “[strike]true[/strike] — full identity.” It’s a nice little correction.

“Realizing your full identity” is a lovely concept.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,147
I got my first ad from the podcasts.

The UK government was advising me on what to do as an expatriate regarding BREXIT...
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,147
That's incredibly specific.
Yeah it is.

But luckily, i'm not british. I can't imagine how shitty it must be be stuck watching this clusterfuck resolve and to possibly have to uproot your live through no fault of your own.

But this kind lady telling me exactly which government websites to use was a bit wierd.
 

mnz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,794
I got the same ad this week on a different podcast, asking me if I'm a UK expat in the EU. I guess mainland Europe listening to English podcasts isn't the worst target...
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,152
the only ad i ever got was the microbial hellscape (with a y so you know it's a cool start-up) one by Rob. mulitiple times.

i liked it