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Waypoint |OT| video games...are good

Oct 31, 2017
735
Probably shouldn't expect Austin and the gang to be on Disney XD again anytime soon.

https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/5/8/18537617/disney-vice-write-off-400-million

Here are the Disney/Vice particulars: Disney told investors Wednesday that it had wiped out $353 million of the money it had previously put into Vice. That followed an announcement last fall that Disney had knocked down the value of its Vice investment by $157 million.

Disney declined to comment. But one bit of language in Disney’s quarterly filing Wednesday is telling: Disney describes the $353 million “impairment charge” it took on Vice as a “write-off” — which in accounting-speak means there’s nothing left to get rid of after this. It’s all gone.

Per Investopedia: “A write-down becomes a write-off if the entire balance of the asset is eliminated and removed from the books altogether.”

If you’ve been doing the math, you’ll note that $353 million plus $157 million is $510 million — well more than the $400 million Disney invested directly in Vice.

Since Disney won’t comment, we will assume that the additional sum includes Vice investments that Disney owned through A&E, the TV programmer that Disney owns along with Hearst, which also backed Vice; as well as $70 million that 21 Century Fox sunk into Vice. That ownership stake transferred to Disney earlier this year when Disney bought a good chunk of the Fox empire.

One last caveat: You can’t say that Disney is saying Vice Media isn’t worth anything at all — just that Disney thinks its investment isn’t going to be worth anything. That’s a distinction with a difference for some Vice investors, who have deals that allow them to get their money from the company, in the case of a sale, before other investors.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,747
Probably shouldn't expect Austin and the gang to be on Disney XD again anytime soon.

https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/5/8/18537617/disney-vice-write-off-400-million

Here are the Disney/Vice particulars: Disney told investors Wednesday that it had wiped out $353 million of the money it had previously put into Vice. That followed an announcement last fall that Disney had knocked down the value of its Vice investment by $157 million.

Disney declined to comment. But one bit of language in Disney’s quarterly filing Wednesday is telling: Disney describes the $353 million “impairment charge” it took on Vice as a “write-off” — which in accounting-speak means there’s nothing left to get rid of after this. It’s all gone.

Per Investopedia: “A write-down becomes a write-off if the entire balance of the asset is eliminated and removed from the books altogether.”

If you’ve been doing the math, you’ll note that $353 million plus $157 million is $510 million — well more than the $400 million Disney invested directly in Vice.

Since Disney won’t comment, we will assume that the additional sum includes Vice investments that Disney owned through A&E, the TV programmer that Disney owns along with Hearst, which also backed Vice; as well as $70 million that 21 Century Fox sunk into Vice. That ownership stake transferred to Disney earlier this year when Disney bought a good chunk of the Fox empire.

One last caveat: You can’t say that Disney is saying Vice Media isn’t worth anything at all — just that Disney thinks its investment isn’t going to be worth anything. That’s a distinction with a difference for some Vice investors, who have deals that allow them to get their money from the company, in the case of a sale, before other investors.
Just read that on the toilet this morning. It’s not the worst thing in the world, but it ain’t great.
 
Oct 25, 2017
524
Yeah really gonna miss Natalie. I don’t know if she will return regularly for like a lore reasons, but would’ve loved to hear her reactions to the wild shit in series like MGS or the souls games. Hopefully, vice will keep that position open for another good person, but who knows.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,444
United States
I saw the new ghostrecon ask me anything about ghostrecon
are the guns good?
wow, were you at the event?

there’s a lot of questions but I can not
not talk about the game preview event that I went to, that is the job that we do, I have to talk about it before I ask you what type of sandwich you would be or whatever the questions are that people sent us

two minutes later: frantically googling a Rami Malek commercial
 

Pikachu

Traded his Bone Marrow for Pizza
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,834
Has she announced what she's doing yet?

I'll admit I've always been confused by people in the industry always saying "I can't say it yet..." to new jobs. Do people sign NDAs for new jobs?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,964
It’s probably a job related to a project that hasn't been announced yet. Like Twitch is launching a review show and she’s a producer or something.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,303
Rob was so right in the spoiler culture debate on the latest waypoint radio.
There's a lot of people who don't know what Rosebud is. There's a lot of people that don't know about FF7. Spoilers are only being brought up when the topic comes up. Rob doesn't like that he can't talk spoilers in front of people that don't know these spoilers. It's not always in conjunction with people who want to be a part of the conversation, when he says that right after he wants to put spoilers in headlines. When he and his circle has seen this text for over 20 years, there is many who has no clue about it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,410
There's a lot of people who don't know what Rosebud is. There's a lot of people that don't know about FF7. Spoilers are only being brought up when the topic comes up. Rob doesn't like that he can't talk spoilers in front of people that don't know these spoilers. It's not always in conjunction with people who want to be a part of the conversation, when he says that right after he wants to put spoilers in headlines. When he and his circle has seen this text for over 20 years, there is many who has no clue about it.
People that don't know what FF7 is aren't in danger of being spoiled.

It's like, not everyone knows that Vader is luke's father. But if you are "into" Scify, you do. Whether you have seen the movies or not.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,303
People that don't know what FF7 is aren't in danger of being spoiled.

It's like, not everyone knows that Vader is luke's father. But if you are "into" Scify, you do. Whether you have seen the movies or not.
I believe thinking that everyone into scify knows that is closed minded thinking. Not everyone has the same background or experiences.

There were instances of people who got into Star Wars during episodes I-III that didn't know about it until is was revealed to them in the movies, which means they were into scifi for years without knowing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,410
I believe thinking that everyone into scify knows that is closed minded thinking. Not everyone has the same background or experiences.

There were instances of people who got into Star Wars during episodes I-III that didn't know about it until is was revealed to them in the movies, which means they were into scifi for years without knowing.
Sure, but there was no extra effort needed to keep them spoilerfree. They were outside the bubble anyway.

People unaware of FF7 dont need us proactively not talking about FF7 indepth.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,303
Sure, but there was no extra effort needed to keep them spoilerfree. They were outside the bubble anyway.

People unaware of FF7 dont need us proactively not talking about FF7 indepth.
so it's gone from everyone knows about it, to everyone in a genre knows about it, to everyone in a genre who are in your bubble know about it

and so about your second point, you can talk about it in depth to your bubble. what can that translate to? talking about it in a thread designated for spoiler talk. and not in threads that have people outside of the bubble in it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,465
Cado's description of what happens in Detective Pikachu just sold me on what sounds like the greatest movie of all time.

I wish Detective Pikachu was my dad too
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,655
#TeamRob. Spoilerculture is ridiculous and should be ridiculed.
Also what isn't stated enough is that it is trivial to avoid spoilers for anyone that doesn't work in media. Getting off the internet or curating what you see is a power nobody excersizes to the extent they whine about spoilers.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,410
so it's gone from everyone knows about it, to everyone in a genre knows about it, to everyone in a genre who are in your bubble know about it

and so about your second point, you can talk about it in depth to your bubble. what can that translate to? talking about it in a thread designated for spoiler talk. and not in threads that have people outside of the bubble in it.
But that hasnt been necessary until now.

The game is referenced in countless games and related media. If one hasnt encountered FF7 discourse until now they will not suddenly stumble over it.

Just like there was no need to pay special attention to keep anakins identity secret.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,303
#TeamRob. Spoilerculture is ridiculous and should be ridiculed.
Also what isn't stated enough is that it is trivial to avoid spoilers for anyone that doesn't work in media. Getting off the internet or curating what you see is a power nobody excersizes to the extent they whine about spoilers.
I feel like it is the extremes that are causing issues.
On one side, you have people walking into spoiler threads or places with obvious spoilers, then complaining about spoilers.
On the other, you have people posting spoilers specifically to spoil people who don't know the spoiler.

Like you said, it's not hard to avoid spoilers, if you aren't going into spoiler threads about it.
And like I'm saying, it's not hard to avoid making spoilers, if you don't post them to the masses.
But that hasnt been necessary until now.

The game is referenced in countless games and related media. If one hasnt encountered FF7 discourse until now they will not suddenly stumble over it.

Just like there was no need to pay special attention to keep anakins identity secret.
Because it wasn't 100% effective, it's ok to post spoilers anywhere and everywhere. Is that it? There were still people who were affected by it.

This conversation was about Rob wanting to put spoilers in headlines, and it boiled into something else. So I think lines of communication are getting crossed and we're arguing against different points.
 
Oct 26, 2017
297
This is very anecdotal and should not be used as evidence for this argument:

I love FF7 to this day.
Literally the first time I ever heard of it, I went to a friends house, and he said "I need to show you this cool cutscene." He loaded up a save, showed me the exact scene that's causing all this kerfuffle, and I thought "that's rad" and bought a copy for myself.
 
Oct 27, 2017
353
The problem with FF7 in particular when it comes to spoiler culture is because of how it was released, there was never a point in time I didn't know "the big spoiler" of that game. Ever since that game was released in Japan, and people decided to make petitions that spoiled the game, I knew what was going to happen.

If anything, I feel like not knowing that big thing would almost be inauthentic to that game. The game was just too large to not get spoiled, even back then, and anything different feels weird to me.

At this point, SE should just start the game with the big twist, and do the rest in flashback. If they don't do anything to subvert expectations, I would be surprised.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,206
People that don't know what FF7 is aren't in danger of being spoiled.

It's like, not everyone knows that Vader is luke's father. But if you are "into" Scify, you do. Whether you have seen the movies or not.
But that's only because those things became memes. It's not something people unfamiliar with the material learn for worthwhile reasons, it's only ever because people thought it was hilarious to shout out spoilers.

It's like going "well, someone already did a shitty thing, so I might as well join in."
You don't see people talking the same way about stories they consider worthwhile, ones that haven't been turned into punchlines.

The game is referenced in countless games and related media. If one hasnt encountered FF7 discourse until now they will not suddenly stumble over it.
I'm not so sure about that. Enough time has passed for FF7 jokes and lukewarm takes to go out of style. In that time, a whole new generation of players got into video games through entirely different channels and platforms, it's not hard to imagine that they never saw people talking about these old-ass games for old people.

#TeamRob. Spoilerculture is ridiculous and should be ridiculed.
Also what isn't stated enough is that it is trivial to avoid spoilers for anyone that doesn't work in media. Getting off the internet or curating what you see is a power nobody excersizes to the extent they whine about spoilers.
"Don't ever use the internet and you won't get spoiled" is one heck of a lifehack.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,641
as always I will voice: not everyone’s brain works the same way; “spoiler culture” can be a bit much, but spoilers can still absolutely harm my enjoyment of a thing in a way that goes far beyond just “I know the twist”, and part of that is stuff I’ve been working on but part of this is just... let me enjoy (or not) the thing the way it was meant to be experienced the first time around?

also I’m not going to “get off the internet” to dodge spoilers because I can’t always just rush to experience the new thing (especially for games, which can obviously be long); I mute terms on Twitter and such but shit slips through because people think they’re being smart with memes and such

anyway I guess I need to see Detective Pikachu sooner rather than later now (which is an ok enough incentive), even if I expect I more or was know the spoilers from the game
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,303
This is very anecdotal and should not be used as evidence for this argument:

I love FF7 to this day.
Literally the first time I ever heard of it, I went to a friends house, and he said "I need to show you this cool cutscene." He loaded up a save, showed me the exact scene that's causing all this kerfuffle, and I thought "that's rad" and bought a copy for myself.
to which, if you were that type of person, you could have said "no thanks don't show me it" then they could not show it to you. your situation is perfectly fine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,655
I feel like it is the extremes that are causing issues.
On one side, you have people walking into spoiler threads or places with obvious spoilers, then complaining about spoilers.
On the other, you have people posting spoilers specifically to spoil people who don't know the spoiler.

Like you said, it's not hard to avoid spoilers, if you aren't going into spoiler threads about it.
And like I'm saying, it's not hard to avoid making spoilers, if you don't post them to the masses.
Because it wasn't 100% effective, it's ok to post spoilers anywhere and everywhere. Is that it? There were still people who were affected by it.

This conversation was about Rob wanting to put spoilers in headlines, and it boiled into something else. So I think lines of communication are getting crossed and we're arguing against different points.
I agree that said people that whine about spoilers generally behave like they encounter the most extreme examples constantly that you might actually come to believe the internet has a shadow cult of spoiler assassins cackling about unknowing people they could target to spoil, when on further inspection most of them are actually very much responsible for actually not behaving in any type of way that would indicate they'd care all that much. Most commonly people complain about getting spoiled through tweets or watching some sort of video or recommendation thumbnail. All these things are easily avoidable.
"Don't ever use the internet and you won't get spoiled" is one heck of a lifehack.
Yes imagine being 1 week not on the internet at all to not catch spoilers for something like Endgame. Truly end of the world sorry for thinking up such a draconian countermeasure(like holy shit what a discharitable interpretation this is to go from getting off the internet to never use the internet at all friend, but I can do that as well). I played Chrono Trigger for the first time in February and I didn't get spoiled on anything in that game for 2 decades despite using the internet and being active in gaming communities.
Shit ain't hard. I have no sympathy for people that whine about getting spoiled through a twitter exchange or watching a video. You can choose not to do that if getting the pure reading of a text is so important. But again #teamRob the way spoiler culture glorifies surprise being part of anyone's enjoyment of anything is just toxic and if a piece of work truly only can stand on top of its cheap surprises maybe it's not that great to begin with.
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Michael Huber from Easy Allies is one of the most spoilerphobe people I've heard/seen in games media and even his stance is "it's your own responsibility to not get spoiled".
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Also a super ridiculous thing about spoiler culture is how apparently everyone like that has a section in their brain that will burn all spoilers to memory to never be forgotten. Like come on if you only casually care pretty sure you can just wait 1-2 years not think about it get other stuff into your head and forget. *shrug*
Or maybe I just can't relate because I don't have these amazing spoiler brains, if I had that learning Japanese would have been probably 500% easier. Just reading spoilers in JP all day.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,206
This is very anecdotal and should not be used as evidence for this argument:

I love FF7 to this day.
Literally the first time I ever heard of it, I went to a friends house, and he said "I need to show you this cool cutscene." He loaded up a save, showed me the exact scene that's causing all this kerfuffle, and I thought "that's rad" and bought a copy for myself.
Sure, and I only got into Silent Hill 2 because I spoiled the ending for myself, but that's not the optimal way to experience that story. It worked for me, but I wouldn't gain anything by giving myself the permission to spoil it for everyone. It's really not hard to mark/preface one's spoilers or to get a feel of whether the person you're talking to wants to hear them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,747
I've had more shit spoiled by chatty coworkers than the internet

it ain't new, that's just life. if you care about shit, hustle to get it done. if not, a spoiler won't kill ya, since you didn't care enough to do something about it
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,641
I agree that said people that whine about spoilers generally behave like they encounter the most extreme examples constantly that you might actually come to believe the internet has a shadow cult of spoiler assassins cackling about unknowing people they could target to spoil, when on further inspection most of them are actually very much responsible for actually not behaving in any type of way that would indicate they'd care all that much. Most commonly people complain about getting spoiled through tweets or watching some sort of video or recommendation thumbnail. All these things are easily avoidable.

Yes imagine being 1 week not on the internet at all to not catch spoilers for something like Endgame. Truly end of the world sorry for thinking up such a draconian countermeasure(like holy shit what a discharitable interpretation this is to go from getting off the internet to never use the internet at all friend, but I can do that as well). I played Chrono Trigger for the first time in February and I didn't get spoiled on anything in that game for 2 decades despite using the internet and being active in gaming communities.
Shit ain't hard. I have no sympathy for people that whine about getting spoiled through a twitter exchange or watching a video. You can choose not to do that if getting the pure reading of a text is so important. But again #teamRob the way spoiler culture glorifies surprise being part of anyone's enjoyment of anything is just toxic and if a piece of work truly only can stand on top of its cheap surprises maybe it's not that great to begin with.
So... that last bit, am I only allowed to enjoy flawlessly written things, then?

Like I’ve played certain 100+ hour games that were not amazingly written in the end, but I would have enjoyed them much more if they were not outright maliciously spoiled for me. Yeah, sure, we can agree it still wouldn’t hold up; doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have enjoyed that time more.

I feel like boiling it down to “surprise” makes it seem like the issue is just knowing a reveal, also? When the issue for me is much more having to engage with the entire work with that context, instead of being able to not think about it till that moment (or the actual foreshadowing causing an expectation, etc.). At my worst, thinking about it constantly and having it cloud the whole thing; even normally, though, it can disrupt the feelings I would have had normally. Or losing the ability to look back and see how I mislead, vs going “well, I might have believed that...”. It’s a worse experience.

Or to put it simply: if I want to experience something the second time, I’ll experience it a second time. Don’t decide that for me.

EDIT:

And like, this isn’t universal. I’ve had my share of things that I was ok with being spoiled for and became more interested in them as a result, sure. I read lots of spoilers for movies I’ll never watch. But I got to opt into that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,964
People who care about spoilers need to get a hobby.

the way it was meant to be experienced
You know your argument is weak when you fall into passive voice.

“Meant” by whom? There is no Department of Correct First Experiences. There’s no underlying principle to invoke here. I think mass media is “meant” to be discussed and shared more than it’s “meant” to be consumed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,641
People who care about spoilers need to get a hobby.



You know your argument is weak when you fall into passive voice.

“Meant” by whom? There is no Department of Correct First Experiences. There’s no underlying principle to invoke here. I think mass media is “meant” to be discussed and shared more than it’s “meant” to be consumed.
Let’s say I’m reading a mystery where I’m not told the solution at the start. Feels like I can say for sure I’m not meant to know the solution. Everyone’s experience will be different while reading the mystery. Some will figure it out, others won’t have a clue, maybe you’ll guess and be wildly wrong. Maybe it’s expertly written, maybe the foreshadowing fucking sucks, maybe the whole thing’s a mess and aliens did it before escaping into a hidden tunnel.

But I can say I’ll probably enjoy it more if I get to do that theorizing as I go, vs you just telling me the murderer and their motive in advance.

death of the author, etc. etc., but don’t just decide I don’t get to enjoy aspects of media at all, because open spoilers are more valuable than me ever feeling legitimate suspense or getting to make theories about what’s currently happening, and so on
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,655
Then spend the goddamn effort to not get spoiled. Like damn this is exactly why spoilerculture deserves to be ridiculed. People come up with dozens of hypotheticals about how it's unreasonable people talk about things before they take 1 step back and actually do all the easy things to not get spoiled.
I just don't understand how people complain so endlessly about this shit if they are part of a group that wants to maximize their enjoyment by not knowing anything and yet do nothing to actually maximize that outside of complaining about others.

Maybe I am a superhuman with the superpower to avoid spoilers in that case I truly apologize for my ignorance and having unrealistic standards.
But here are a few more things I've never been spoiled on that I probably plan to watch/get to at some point: The Wire, Stranger Things, West World,The Sopranos, Metal Gear, FF12, Detective Pikachu(I just skipped that discussion in the waypoint episode woaw), Shazam, etc etc etc the list goes on with examples of varying popularity and zeitgeist mind share. I didn't get spoiled on Game of Thrones Season 7 which I completely skipped until basically the week before Season 8.

I don't understand how I am apparently part of some weird outlier group that somehow finds no issue avoiding spoilers while others paint this reality of spoiler dodging being equivalent to real life parkour. Again if your job is in media I'm A LOT more empathetic to that but the average joe that doesn't have a professional reason why they can't check out of the online discourse has no goddamn excuse to be this whiney. Also I am on the internet A LOT but I know it may sound surprising but stack exchange post don't contain hidden unexpected spoilers for the new hot thing out of nowhere.(Basically my point here is that between getting off the internet entirely and just navigating like a smart person that actually cares there is GIGANTIC playroom between the two).
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To add though I have nothing against and support disclaimers like Cado did for podcast. And I also totally support people that want to have spoiler free discussion by actually making these type of threads for themselves. Like make the "FF7R E3 no unmarked spoiler thread" I respect that 100% but don't go into a FF7R thread and expect that rule to be the norm. But yes if someone is a jackass to the extent of purposely entering those threads and does spoil maliciously of course that's kinda shit and not acceptable.
 
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