The cast is not Bernadetta. Especially if you stay away from the heaping trashfire that is the Black Eagles (minus Dorothea, who owns).
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Waypoint+ |OT| "Fuck Capitalism, Go Home"
- Thread starter Mezentine
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pick the actual good team, golden dears. and fall in love with your big burly soft boy, raphael.
Or your kind, gentle Ignatz, Angel of Death.
Gold Team rules.
I just got the support scene with raphael and marianne where
marianne is great
she... talks to birds...?
marianne is great
As far as anime personalities go, i feel three houses is pretty good?
It's there of course, but at least for the school portion it's entertaining. Despite some characters being a bit one note, the support conversations do flesh them out and give them depth. It's a far cry from what we got in fates.
I hated the idea of a school setting because it's so often a trashfire of tropes and teenage drama. Three houses sidesteps a lot of that because the story and characters aknowlede that this is actually a military school and that outside politics matter for what goes on inside in a school where the children of the powerful gather. And then there's the second half of the game not set there.
The writing won't win any awards but it does it's job imo. It's been a while since i've been positively surprised by that kind of setup.
It's there of course, but at least for the school portion it's entertaining. Despite some characters being a bit one note, the support conversations do flesh them out and give them depth. It's a far cry from what we got in fates.
I hated the idea of a school setting because it's so often a trashfire of tropes and teenage drama. Three houses sidesteps a lot of that because the story and characters aknowlede that this is actually a military school and that outside politics matter for what goes on inside in a school where the children of the powerful gather. And then there's the second half of the game not set there.
The writing won't win any awards but it does it's job imo. It's been a while since i've been positively surprised by that kind of setup.
Dan was a nerd masquerading as a bro. Patrick is a bro masquerading as a nerd.
Bernadette isn't even bad; I like her a lot personally. Her gimmick can be a little eyeroll inducing at times, but that's mainly because I do think the behavior doesn't really line up with her trauma all the time + they lay it on a bit thick. And even then, it's not like it's a constant thing that interrupts major story scenes or something like that. You can just speed through her C supports if you really need to.
And I dunno about the other houses, but I also think the rest of BE largely avoids anything like that. People have gimmicks but none stick out as much.
EDIT:
Otherwise, yeah, I have no context for past FE games but a lot of the supports have been pretty good. Sometimes they're fluff, sometimes they start diving into some serious backstory, and both are entertaining.
And I dunno about the other houses, but I also think the rest of BE largely avoids anything like that. People have gimmicks but none stick out as much.
EDIT:
Otherwise, yeah, I have no context for past FE games but a lot of the supports have been pretty good. Sometimes they're fluff, sometimes they start diving into some serious backstory, and both are entertaining.
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I will say, the thing I do like about Bernadetta is that her arc isn't a matter needing to be "cured" by the Byleth. It's probably my favorite part of the game's characterizations for many of the students/faculty. The only times where it appears there needs to be an actual problem to be remedied is where someone is racist/classist/sexist.
Three houses is even a far cry from Awakening. I dunno this is about the best I expected on one note because they're actually changing stuff up further into the support convos and giving more context for every character I've dived into so far.
Awakening was worse Kellam(for people that don't remember it was the big dude in armor that nobody noticed was there) had his gimmick for literally almost all levels of support convos with nothing else to it. I ain't even talking about some of what fates was.
Bernadetta is so far removed from being that, I dunno you actually learn about her home circumstances, the politics around her home, how she relates to people she views as over her league. Her high anxiety is still of course a gimmick but the gimmicks in three houses generally get a lot more extra stuff to them than we did even in awakening. Also Alois/Bernadetta is very much about her not having that same anxiety. Now if people are saying things could be even better sure, but also this is very much the best it's been since 3ds FE.
Awakening was worse Kellam(for people that don't remember it was the big dude in armor that nobody noticed was there) had his gimmick for literally almost all levels of support convos with nothing else to it. I ain't even talking about some of what fates was.
Bernadetta is so far removed from being that, I dunno you actually learn about her home circumstances, the politics around her home, how she relates to people she views as over her league. Her high anxiety is still of course a gimmick but the gimmicks in three houses generally get a lot more extra stuff to them than we did even in awakening. Also Alois/Bernadetta is very much about her not having that same anxiety. Now if people are saying things could be even better sure, but also this is very much the best it's been since 3ds FE.
Catching up on pods, and I must say I've never understood the "Ike x Soren" Fire Emblem 9-10 shippers. Ike and Elincia clearly have a connection going and I dunno how anyone misses it. Fire Emblem: PoR and RD are many things, but never are they subtle.
Though, I suppose I could have been too young to pick up on the innuendo back then. My reading of media in general has become a lot more nuanced these last few years.
Though, I suppose I could have been too young to pick up on the innuendo back then. My reading of media in general has become a lot more nuanced these last few years.
As with any well developped relationship between 2 characters, it's really easy to read romance into it. Especially if you are personally attracted to the characters.
I'm not sure there was any clear innuendo between the two but especially in the context of Fire Emblem fandom that's not actually needed to count as romance.
Awakening/Fates aside most relationships in those games are hinted at, rather than explicit and there are many possibilities rather than one "correct" one. Much like how i think that the "romance" happening in Three Houses is the game being open ended enough to allow the audience to fill the holes how they want.
Not saying that's a bad thing btw.
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I've also been (slowly) going through FF14 this summer!
I finished ARR a couple weeks ago and have been picking away at the quests leading to Heavensward. I think I love it, conceptually, but it (and most of ARR honestly) could do with some heavy pruning. Going through this stuff reminded me of something Austin talked about on a podcast once about liking when games have space to decompress after the main story is done. I was expecting to go straight into the next big storyline but instead it's a lot of character moments and political table setting; it was really unexpected, especially in an MMO, and it's too bad Austin will probably never have the time to see it himself.
Guess I'll just throw FF14 deep dive onto my Waypoint wishlist on top of a Warframe spoilercast and The Missing discussion.
Also every time I see Ascians teleport into and out of scenes or stand on pillars to talk I can't help but think of Organization XIII.
Out of curiosity I went and looked up Ike's supports, and highlighted the Soren line that I think makes it much easier to read this one as at least semi-romantic.
In the Elincia one, it feels to me more like a friendship developed out of a working relationship rather than anything romantic.
It's definitely true that reading romantic relationships into things is common amongst fandoms, and I think a lot of writers definitely follow that, making things ambiguous so that people can interpret them according to their own preferences, which extends your potential fanbase.
I also wish that more explicitly platonic relationships between people of all genders were more common. Even if you read Ike/Soren as just two great friends, that should be fine, because being able to have close and emotionally open male friendships would probably improve society a great deal. (To be clear, I'm not saying there shouldn't also be explicitly romantic male relationships, but more of both)
Also having male/female friendships that aren't just romance would be good, because otherwise they all devolve into shipping and "WHEN ARE THEY GONNA FUCK".
I feel like all the A-Ranks I've seen in Three Houses so far have been on that ambiguous line, where they could be taken as romantic or not, depending on how you feel about the characters and their relationships with each other.
Ike: Hey, Soren.
Soren: ...
Ike: I've been thinking a lot about what you said the other day, and there's something I still don't understand. You survived. You're strong. Why would you feel insecure about who you are? Tell me. Tell me everything.
Soren: Curse you! Why can't you leave me be?! I don't have any friends, Ike! I don't have anyone else! If I tell you and you turn on me... I... I... I don't think I can survive it.
Ike: That's why you have to tell me, Soren. You'll never tell anyone else. And if you don't tell anyone, you're just going to keep suffering. Look at you! You're a mess! Come on. Talk to me.
Soren: Ike... I... I...
Ike: Soren, it's me! Trust me. I don't give two figs who your parents are! I'll stand by you.
Soren: Ike, I...sniff... No, I won't... ..sniff...Ah, Ike... ...I'm... Branded. I'm one of the Branded.
Ike: A Branded? What's that?
Soren: It's a cross between a beorc and a laguz. Such a taboo union violates every teaching of the goddess. And of society. We are untouchables. Abominations. Condemned to a life of hatred and shunning from both races.
Ike: Wait, wait. Hold it a second. Let me make sure that I follow you... You're part laguz?
Soren: Yeah. This mark on my forehead is the proof. I learned about it while researching ancient books at the Mainal Cathedral. I always thought it was a birthmark. Others thought that it was the mark of a Spirit Charmer.
Ike: What's a Spirit Charmer?
Soren: Magic comes from interaction with spirits. If you let one into your body, it will give you tremendous power...for a price. That's why the old sage was so interested in me. He thought I had struck such a deal. But instead, I was just a filthy Branded.
Ike: All right. I understand. So?
Soren: ...What do you mean, "so?"
Ike: So, you have laguz blood in your veins. So, you have a mark to prove it. So... What's the problem?
Soren: What's the problem...? Don't you find me repugnant!? I work beside you, eat beside you. I'm nothing! I don't belong anywhere! Doesn't that sicken you?
Ike: No. It doesn't change anything. You're still you, Soren! You're a capable officer of our army. And my friend. We can't keep going unless you are with us.
Soren: ...Ike... I thought... I thought you...
Ike: What?
Soren: It was Gallia. The sage lived in Gallia. A few beorcs had settled there and...
Ike: Gallia? Are you saying...
Soren: When the sage died, no one would help me. I couldn't speak. Couldn't find food. I was dying. You were the only one who helped. You and your father. That's why you're my friend. My...only friend.
Soren: ...
Ike: I've been thinking a lot about what you said the other day, and there's something I still don't understand. You survived. You're strong. Why would you feel insecure about who you are? Tell me. Tell me everything.
Soren: Curse you! Why can't you leave me be?! I don't have any friends, Ike! I don't have anyone else! If I tell you and you turn on me... I... I... I don't think I can survive it.
Ike: That's why you have to tell me, Soren. You'll never tell anyone else. And if you don't tell anyone, you're just going to keep suffering. Look at you! You're a mess! Come on. Talk to me.
Soren: Ike... I... I...
Ike: Soren, it's me! Trust me. I don't give two figs who your parents are! I'll stand by you.
Soren: Ike, I...sniff... No, I won't... ..sniff...Ah, Ike... ...I'm... Branded. I'm one of the Branded.
Ike: A Branded? What's that?
Soren: It's a cross between a beorc and a laguz. Such a taboo union violates every teaching of the goddess. And of society. We are untouchables. Abominations. Condemned to a life of hatred and shunning from both races.
Ike: Wait, wait. Hold it a second. Let me make sure that I follow you... You're part laguz?
Soren: Yeah. This mark on my forehead is the proof. I learned about it while researching ancient books at the Mainal Cathedral. I always thought it was a birthmark. Others thought that it was the mark of a Spirit Charmer.
Ike: What's a Spirit Charmer?
Soren: Magic comes from interaction with spirits. If you let one into your body, it will give you tremendous power...for a price. That's why the old sage was so interested in me. He thought I had struck such a deal. But instead, I was just a filthy Branded.
Ike: All right. I understand. So?
Soren: ...What do you mean, "so?"
Ike: So, you have laguz blood in your veins. So, you have a mark to prove it. So... What's the problem?
Soren: What's the problem...? Don't you find me repugnant!? I work beside you, eat beside you. I'm nothing! I don't belong anywhere! Doesn't that sicken you?
Ike: No. It doesn't change anything. You're still you, Soren! You're a capable officer of our army. And my friend. We can't keep going unless you are with us.
Soren: ...Ike... I thought... I thought you...
Ike: What?
Soren: It was Gallia. The sage lived in Gallia. A few beorcs had settled there and...
Ike: Gallia? Are you saying...
Soren: When the sage died, no one would help me. I couldn't speak. Couldn't find food. I was dying. You were the only one who helped. You and your father. That's why you're my friend. My...only friend.
In the Elincia one, it feels to me more like a friendship developed out of a working relationship rather than anything romantic.
Elincia: ...
Ike: We finally reach the capital tomorrow.
Elincia: Yes...
Ike: How are you feeling about it?
Elincia: More than a little anxious... But... We've finally made it. I'm home. More than anything, I feel relief.
Ike: You've grown strong, Princess.
Elincia: That's only because I had such a great role model.
Ike: Hah! I think you meant to say bad role model, right? By the way, do you remember what you said to me on the southern sea?
Elincia: W-what did I say? Hopefully, it was nothing too embarrassing.
Ike: You said, "Give them a sound thrashing!"
Elincia: Oh...er...that? That was...um... I was trying to fit in, my lord Ike. To be rough and capable like the rest of you.
Ike: You caught me off guard with that one.
Elincia: Hee hee! It brings back memories.
Elincia: When I fled the capital and was told about Crimea's defeat in Gallia... I prepared myself to live in crushing, colorless despair for the rest of my days. But when I look back, I can see there were some warm rays of hope...poking through.
Ike: You're right...
Elincia: Tomorrow, I will face King Daein and reclaim Crimea...or die in the attempt. It is the only thing on my mind.
Ike: You employed me as a mercenary. I'll give you your money's worth! ...No. It means more than that... To my last breath, I will do all that I can to ensure your dream...Elincia.
Elincia: Oh, Ike...
Ike: We finally reach the capital tomorrow.
Elincia: Yes...
Ike: How are you feeling about it?
Elincia: More than a little anxious... But... We've finally made it. I'm home. More than anything, I feel relief.
Ike: You've grown strong, Princess.
Elincia: That's only because I had such a great role model.
Ike: Hah! I think you meant to say bad role model, right? By the way, do you remember what you said to me on the southern sea?
Elincia: W-what did I say? Hopefully, it was nothing too embarrassing.
Ike: You said, "Give them a sound thrashing!"
Elincia: Oh...er...that? That was...um... I was trying to fit in, my lord Ike. To be rough and capable like the rest of you.
Ike: You caught me off guard with that one.
Elincia: Hee hee! It brings back memories.
Elincia: When I fled the capital and was told about Crimea's defeat in Gallia... I prepared myself to live in crushing, colorless despair for the rest of my days. But when I look back, I can see there were some warm rays of hope...poking through.
Ike: You're right...
Elincia: Tomorrow, I will face King Daein and reclaim Crimea...or die in the attempt. It is the only thing on my mind.
Ike: You employed me as a mercenary. I'll give you your money's worth! ...No. It means more than that... To my last breath, I will do all that I can to ensure your dream...Elincia.
Elincia: Oh, Ike...
It's definitely true that reading romantic relationships into things is common amongst fandoms, and I think a lot of writers definitely follow that, making things ambiguous so that people can interpret them according to their own preferences, which extends your potential fanbase.
I also wish that more explicitly platonic relationships between people of all genders were more common. Even if you read Ike/Soren as just two great friends, that should be fine, because being able to have close and emotionally open male friendships would probably improve society a great deal. (To be clear, I'm not saying there shouldn't also be explicitly romantic male relationships, but more of both)
Also having male/female friendships that aren't just romance would be good, because otherwise they all devolve into shipping and "WHEN ARE THEY GONNA FUCK".
I feel like all the A-Ranks I've seen in Three Houses so far have been on that ambiguous line, where they could be taken as romantic or not, depending on how you feel about the characters and their relationships with each other.
Alright now I'm on WPR ep 252 annnd I don't think Rob was introduced or said a word until 19 minutes in when Austin started talking to Phantom Rob... who then joined the conversation. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
Both are more ambiguous than I remembered, though I always took Soren's to be the conclusion of his own arc, rather than a hint that he is interested in Ike. Not sure that I remember much of RD's supports, knowing where these ended now... But whatever, there's equal ground for both for sure.
Thanks for the transcription! It's good to see them again, and a great refresher.
Both are more ambiguous than I remembered, though I always took Soren's to be the conclusion of his own arc, rather than a hint that he is interested in Ike. Not sure that I remember much of RD's supports, knowing where these ended now... But whatever, there's equal ground for both for sure.
Worth looking beyond the Support convos for Ike x Soren: For instance the last minute or so here:
Like hat_hair says, def possible to read as homosocial and not homoerotic--and I want more games with healthy male friends, too! But also, this convo probably helps contextualize the ship.
Like hat_hair says, def possible to read as homosocial and not homoerotic--and I want more games with healthy male friends, too! But also, this convo probably helps contextualize the ship.
I was just re-listening to this portion of the podcast an hour ago! Thanks for finding the reference!
Who would have thought it would be anime that finally killed Waypoint.
And it wasn't even Gundam.
And it wasn't even Gundam.
I don't mean this in a bad way, but could it be due to Union laws only Cado or another producer can produce the podcast?
Nope! We annoucned last week that we'd only be doing a couple of pods this week with Cado out (and with the rest of us also all having some weird availability this week). We all just have very busy weeks doing other work right now, so we couldn't do the thing where Danielle or I edited it in a pinch, like we used to do. We'll get back to Waypoints next week!
OP
OP
Okay here is what I need to know to be sold on Fire Emblem: on today's podcast, Rob outlines an interaction between two characters in Blue Lions, one of whom is a vassal to the other, and he hypothesizes two different cases for what that interaction might mean for that character. Is the writing in Three Houses of a high enough quality that the sorts of complex motivations and interpersonal conflicts he's considering actually...manifest? Because my big concern is that that relationship, and relationships like it, will go in sort of a "ah geez but we've fought together for so long now that I guess I can let down my shell a bit and consider myself your friend now too" direction
Or, put more simply, how much of Three Houses is good drama and how much is just melodrama?
Or, put more simply, how much of Three Houses is good drama and how much is just melodrama?
As far as supports go among your group, it's pretty much the latter (at least for the Golden Deer). But the overarching story is very much concerned with people who have different power relationships and politics with one another, and how those differences manifest into conflict. It gets underplayed in podcast conversation for obvious reasons (spoilers and all that), but the overall plot post-time skip is really great.
On a different note, I'd be cool with Austin and the Waypoint crew having a decent B-Level overall support with Waypoint-ERA.
How much of it is in the actual text of Fire Emblem 3 Houses, and how much of it is the Waypointers reading into the game's script?
Speaking to the person-to-person supports, I think the stuff they're reading into the game is still like 50% explicit text/ 50% subtext, but it gets surprisingly more explicit than you'd think sometimes.
One character frames the entirety of their romantic pursuits from the perspective of remembering not having any value to the anyone and living in poverty until they were discovered for their physical gifts. After realizing early that those physical gifts will eventually wither away, the character decided to take advantage of finding a suitor at the monastery so they won't have to return to the poverty and misery. Where most games would have the MC explain the error of this character's ways to them and "show" how they can "self-actualize", this character mildly rebukes the MC and explains how the choice to pursue a suitor is largely well-considered survival tactic.
What's interesting about the character's pursuits is how the game frames what would often grossly be characterized as "gold-digging" in a mostly positive light, whereas the nobles pursuing romances for the purposes of maintaining the house line is the gross thing that it is. This framing is magnified with this character's supports with those nobles which has the character regularly telling them off for being pieces of shit. That said, eventually, if they support each other enough, they will become buddy-buddy (provided they actually have a support, some characters straight up have no supports with each other).
As for the heads of the houses, these conflicts of background and desired solutions to the problems of that background are the primary conflicts of the game. As an example, one character advocates for diplomacy with other continents (sometimes even advocating for the unification of all continents) because they grew up with a dual heritage that was consistently, openly despised no matter where they lived. It's presented as a radical, almost heretical idea. A character openly talks to the rest of their house about how maybe people should stop worshiping "The Goddess" and start recognizing the gifts of nature to come from nature itself after visiting a number of other nations and learning more about their worship traditions. The Church itself has its own weird machinations, compounding these conflicts to the point where:
If you picked the right house, you can abandon that house's leader, and align yourself with the Church instead
All of these decisions are rooted in a long history of prior conflict and differing power relationships. I'd also note that it takes a real long time to get to the most compelling of this stuff. I didn't get to the time skip until 30 hours in.
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:/ This is deeply upsetting
there's also no time babies
(unless you count bernadetta as a permanent baby, regardless of her point in time)
(unless you count bernadetta as a permanent baby, regardless of her point in time)
This is Dorothea, I assume? It's been interesting to see how this aspect has been treated so far. The one that struck me was her C support with... looking at it, I guess it was Caspar, now that I reread from the Extras menu? I'll tag, but for those who aren't playing, this is extremely early stuff.
He asks about why she goes on all these dates; when she says she doesn't enjoy it but it's important for her future, he compares it to him training for combat so much. When she questions the comparison, he points out that while he's technically a noble, he's a second son and won't inherit anything. He needs to prove himself in battle if he actually wants to gain status, just like she's making an effort to marry well. It ends very positively, with them wishing each other well on working hard for their futures.
It was a nice surprise for C supports, since a lot of them can be awkward/harsh, haha.
It was a nice surprise for C supports, since a lot of them can be awkward/harsh, haha.
So I'm wondering how her supports will progress in general, since some of them are definitely... let's go with "more direct", about her feelings towards nobles. I'm sure it will indeed go towards buddy-buddy stuff, so it's a matter of how they'll do that...
EDIT:
Though, meanwhile, talking about C supports, you also have stuff like Caspar x Petra (which I haven't gotten B for yet), where...
Caspar: so... this is kinda awkward, but...
me: he's being shy; does he have a cru-
Caspar: you did know my dad killed your dad? right?
me: what the fuck
me: he's being shy; does he have a cru-
Caspar: you did know my dad killed your dad? right?
me: what the fuck
which was a ride
I'm sure she'll have some more outwardly flirtatious supports too, but the ones she's had with my garbage boys have mostly been about warming up to being friends. Nothing near as forward as she is with the MC (which, as Rob notes, gets pretty inappropriate for a student/teacher relationship initially).
Given what you've posted, I'm kinda regretting not recruiting Caspar. That Petra drama is the sort of thing I dig in these games.
The direct link for the latest podcast episode is linking for the previous episode.
Also, lmao at the Bleemcast memories.
Also, lmao at the Bleemcast memories.
i'm excited to get to the Blue Lions discourse but having to slog through the shitfest that is the ESA leaks and Dani noting that her parents (her parents!) got doxxed a while back because of Gamergate just makes me so fucking mad I had to go listen to something else for a while