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wccftech.com: Why The PS5’s 10.3 TFLOPs Figure Is Misleading

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Garrison

Garrison

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Oct 27, 2017
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Interesting Article from wccftech.

Sony PS5 Vs. Xbox Series X Technical Analysis: Why The PS5's 10.3 TFLOPs Figure Is Misleading

Here are some quotes but I highly suggest reading the article. It's a really good read.

Here is where things get murkier though, while Microsoft's reveal was excruciatingly clear, succinct and allowed third-party testers like Digital Foundry to get closeups out, I found the Sony Playstation 5 reveal to be somewhat lacking in clarity and almost, deliberately vague. My primary pain point was when the Sony PS5 was advertised to ship with 10.3 TFLOPs and then the words "variable clock rate" were uttered in the same breath. This, as many of you have guessed is misleading (the magnitude of which depends on a couple of things discussed below).
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On the other hand, the Sony PS5 has something called a variable clock rate. What that means is that the console will not run the GPU at 2.23 GHz all the time. Since Microsoft's clock is a static number, just because PS5's clock rate is variable makes the 10.28 TFLOPs number uncomparable to the Xbox Series X and misleading. This is because XSX is displaying the "sustained TFLOPs" figure while PS5 is displaying the "peak TFLOPs" figure.
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The fact that the XSX has 44% higher CU count is something that the PS5 simply cannot overcome. Microsoft might actually have underclocked its own console to make way for a "fine wine" philosophy as we have seen in the past. In fact, if they were to approach a dynamic clocking philosophy as well, they can hit an astounding 14.6 TFLOPs figure (using the PS5 clocks) - which is absolutely insane for a console. That said, you don't want to do that. Optimizing games is hard and having a static clock with no power fluctuation shenanigans is always easier to work with than a dynamic approach.
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I read this last night b4 going to bed so sorry if it's already posted.
 
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Honestly, all of these numeral differences probably won't mean much for multiplat titles as the lowest common denominator will be the target.
 

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All modern processors change their clock based on avaiable power limit and temperature.
So PS5 maf TFLOPs are those 10.28 but we will have to wait to see how long it can sustain a stable max Clock and
what advantaged the faster SSD will bring
 
Munstre

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This doesn't seem like a very accurate reading of things. As far as I understand it, a GPU doesn't need to be at its peak all the time, so it doesn't matter that it's variable. It will be at the speed it needs to be based on the game's demands.
 
litebrite

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All this talk and hypotheticals are meaningless to me. The only thing that will matter is results and if there are clear noticeable differences between the games on XSX and PS5.
 
Napalm_Frank

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People who know about this stuff (including what Cerny said) point that the drop would be pretty minimal anyway. The difference between ~10 and 10.2 is not enough to make this an outrage.
 
nib95

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NXGamer and Digital Foundry have already covered this in far more detail.

Essentially, it's only misleading if you believe Cerny is lying about the system spending the majority of its time at max potential speeds. NXGamer does a good job of explaining why what Cerny said makes complete sense and appears most probable, hence the reason it really is 10.28 Tflop. Not to mention how only a very tiny frequency clock drop (2%) would be needed to claw back a lot of power, in the rare worst case power load scenarios.

I suggest you watch the video as it shows how whilst running games, the CPU/GPU are already downclocking based on usage on a frame by frame basis, hence rarely both max out per se anyway.

 
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Dreams-Visions

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6 more months of these articles, folks. Hang in there. I assume neither console will really disappoint, and as always, people will go where the games they want to play are, regardless of power differences realized or perceived.
 

LCGeek

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Oheao said:
Honestly, all of these numeral differences probably won't mean much for multiplat titles as the lowest common denominator will be the target.
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This is false cause the better system will produce more solid performance as the last 3 gens have proven.

They may limit assets they won't limit performance and never have.
 
DSN2K

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Article and Title are also misleading, Nobody knows how often PS5 sits near 10.3TF. Cerny said he expects it around that most of the time. We wont really know until we know more about console reference thermals etc.
 
Zemst

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Not much beating around the bush. They stated way before this xbox will never be the weaker of the two and they proved everyone correct.
 
Tagyhag

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Lys Skygge said:
Can we stop with these kind of snide remarks?
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I'm sorry, it's just really fun considering the crazy opinions we've been getting from folks who probably have never even used an SSD before all this. :P

But to be more serious, I think we won't truly know all the differences until we see more non-cross gen 3rd party games come out. I think both consoles will be closer than what people believe.
 
Calabi

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Isn't it the same with the Xbox Series X, though? You can't sustain 100 percent load 100 percent of the time, any consoles TFLOPs will fluctuate as the scene and requirements change.
 
Garrett 2U

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nib95 said:
NXGamer and Digital Foundry have already covered this in far more detail.

Essentially, it's only misleading if you believe Cerny is lying about the system spending the majority of its time at max potential speeds. NXGamer does a good job of explaining why what Cerny said makes complete sense and appears most probable, hence the reason it really is 10.28 Tflop. Not to mention how only a very tiny frequency clock drop (2%) would be needed to claw back a lot of power, in the rare worst case power load scenarios.

I suggest you watch the video as it shows how whilst running games, the CPU/GPU are already downclocking based on usage on a frame by frame basis, hence rarely max out per se anyway.

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Dictator debated otherwise in the thread for this video. So I'm not sure why you're claiming Digital Foundry is in agreement.

Dictator said:
Devs will choose whether they want full Power to gpu or full Power to CPU where one or the other underclocks below the listed spec. So a game to game Basis. I imagine most cross gen games will choose to prefer higher clocked gpu Mode as they will be gpu bound even if the Zen cores are underclocked. Zen just runs around the Jag that most cross gen games are not going to worry about CPU time, especially 30 fps games.

That is how it works.
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Dictator said:
Basically you target and say I want full GPU and the CPU underclocks so the Power Budget keeps the GPU clock high. The Power that would have been CPU Reserved goes over to the GPU to keep it's clock more stable, and since the CPU is now lower clocked, the more intense utilisation or instructions will not tip the Power Balance - well, that is for a game that is also not Absolutely thrashing both.
indeed this Info comes from people who work on the Thing.

Basically, if the Gpu is at 10.2 TF, the cpu is not at 3.5 GHz.


Cerny said all this on stage basically, just not in the most direct way. The only reason to mention smart shift is if this happens, just like it does on smart shift.
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Guymelef

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Microsoft might actually have underclocked its own console to make way for a "fine wine" philosophy as we have seen in the past. In fact, if they were to approach a dynamic clocking philosophy as well, they can hit an astounding 14.6 TFLOPs figure (using the PS5 clocks) -
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lol.
Wccftech as bad as always.
 
Lys Skygge

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Tagyhag said:
I'm sorry, it's just really fun considering the crazy opinions we've been getting from folks who probably have never even used an SSD before all this. :P

But to be more serious, I think we won't truly know all the differences until we see more non-cross gen 3rd party games come out. I think both consoles will be closer than what people believe.
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We've seen way too much fanboying around here and posts like that only make things worse. Just look at all members quoting you with "lol this". It's fucking insufferable and adds absolutely nothing to the conversation.
 
Munstre

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Nazgûl said:
Basically Cerny lied and 9.2 is the real tfs number.
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Yep, the Teraflops are a lie, the frequencies are a lie, the SSD is a lie. Everything Cerny said was a lie as we are learning from random disreputable websites and comments sections across the web. I'm beginning to think the PS5 itself doesn't actually exist; they'll just put a ball and a stick in the box and sell it for 500 bucks. Hopefully the exclusives will be good on the ball and stick entertainment system.
 
_Karooo

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Look anything around 10tflops especially for a gaming console is stunning. All games will run at 4k 60fps easily. Differences will not be noticeable in multiplats anyway or will be minor.
 
Gemüsepizza

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This is some MisterXMedia stuff. Pulling numbers out of his ass and basically saying Mark Cerny is lying. Great journalism.
 
sirap

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Munstre said:
Yep, the Teraflops are a lie, the frequencies are a lie, the SSD is a lie. Everything Cerny said was a lie as we are learning from random disreputable websites and comments sections across the web. I'm beginning to think the PS5 itself doesn't actually exist; they'll just put a ball and a stick in the box and sell it for 500 bucks. Hopefully the exclusives will be good on the ball and stick entertainment system.
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How sure are we that Mark Cerny is even a real human being?
 
Serenity Lotus

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Garrett 2U said:
Dictator says otherwise
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Every time someone asks him why he thinks this way he never gives an answer. Seen multiple people question him on this and not once did he answer. Not at all saying he is lying or anything like it, but it is rather odd that he goes against what the lead architect states in the presentation and in the interview Eurogamer has. Yet never explains why.
 

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sirap said:
How sure are we that Mark Cerny is even a real human being?
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aliens.gif
 
nib95

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Garrett 2U said:
Dictator says otherwise
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Dictator is not actually disagreeing. You missed the point of my post and NXGamers in a rush to disapprove it. What NXGamer is saying is that currently games rarely max out clock frequencies on both the GPU and CPU simultaneously on a frame by frame basis anyway. So naturally that means that what Mark Cerny said would be true, that the max potential clock speed of the GPU would be available the majority of the time.

What Dictator is discussing is about both the GPU and CPU frequencies being maxed simultaneously, which is a different thing altogether, and something that NXGamer and Cerny imply rarely ever happens anyway (Cerny speaking with respect to power load).

Dictator is also presumably theorising on whether max frequencies with the CPU and GPU can be simultaneously reached, because that hasn't actually been clarified yet. Infact, in an earlier post he stated that he's not sure yet, and is just assuming.
 
Era of not Yakuza

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Gemüsepizza said:
This is some MisterXMedia stuff. Pulling numbers out of his ass and basically saying Mark Cerny is lying. Great journalism.
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Dreams-Visions said:
6 more months of these articles, folks. Hang in there. I assume neither console will really disappoint, and as always, people will go where the games they want to play are, regardless of power differences realized or perceived.
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yep

All we have is speculations about speculations
In fact, if they were to approach a dynamic clocking philosophy as well, they can hit an astounding 14.6 TFLOPs figure (using the PS5 clocks) - which is absolutely insane for a console
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and more speculations
 
Voltaire

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It's as if Cerny wasn't even talking and explaining things.

Microsoft might actually have underclocked its own console to make way for a "fine wine" philosophy as we have seen in the past. In fact, if they were to approach a dynamic clocking philosophy as well, they can hit an astounding 14.6 TFLOPs figure (using the PS5 clocks) - which is absolutely insane for a console
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That's pulled straight out of their asses, the two consoles have fundamentally different approaches to how their clockspeed is handled, differences that unless I'm wrong are down to the silicon and architecture. Microsoft can't magic a dynamic clockspeed scheme like sony without frying the damn thing.
 
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