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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Source

Earlier this month, we ran an editorial on how the race to produce a "Netflix of games" could wind up hurting developers, even if it works out well for customers as well as the people running these services. After that article, Microsoft reached out to offer an interview on the subject with the company's head of gaming services Ben Decker and Game Pass head of planning Matt Percy.

Much of the editorial discussed the implications of subscription services like Game Pass becoming the primary way for people to enjoy the hobby in the same way some people rely on Netflix or services like Spotify and Pandora for all their needs in other media. Decker insisted that isn't the plan for Game Pass.

"When we launched it, we thought an ever-increasing number of titles might be something that was really important to gamers," he admitted. "But as it turns out, that's not really what they're asking for. What we get from our customers isn't, 'I want a subscription that has thousands and thousands of games.' What we heard from them is, 'I want a subscription with 100, or a little more than 100, games. But I want them to be really good games. And I want a curated portfolio where I know what's in there is going to be really great to play.'

"We don't have a goal of being the subscription where you get all your content. This is meant to be additive to the ecosystem. We don't see a future where subscriptions are dominant. We see a future where customers have choice between a subscription and purchase-to-own, where there's a mixed ecosystem because that's what customers want, and that's what developers want."

Microsoft has been looking at the habits of Game Pass subscribers in the three months before they signed up and the three months after, and finding some data to support that position. On average, Game Pass members have increased their time spent gaming on Xbox by about 20%, with Percy noting a "significant portion" of that time is spent playing non-Game Pass games. The number of games they played increased by 40%, with increased purchasing and engaging with titles outside the Game Pass service.

Of course, all these numbers are based on Game Pass in its current form. And for all Microsoft may want a vibrant ecosystem where purchases and subscription are both viable ways to buy and sell games, Decker said the company isn't dogmatic about sticking to that if the market shifts in the other direction.

Interesting comments

Game Pass and chill if old
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,841
Shame that there is one subscription that is dominant: the paywall to play online.

The "service" whose only purpose is to take features away from games you paid for until you pay for it is the only one that is gaining traction. Even Nintendo is joining it next month.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
I do think 100 is not enough if you want to offer people (with different tastes, different age groups, different ways of playing games) a good service for years to come. People who like racing games don't really have a reason to subscribe once FH4 gets old for them. At this point Gamepass caters to people with a varied taste.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,297
I guess that's the right way to go about it. People are gonna wanna have access to a ton of a stuff though(me included)
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
If the future is streaming, subscriptions will probably be the only way to play new games. But we're not there yet, and for now I prefer owning my games instead of renting them.

Shame that there is one subscription that is dominant: the paywall to play online. The "service" whose only purpose is to take features away from games you paid for until you pay for it is the only one that is gaining traction. Even Nintendo is joining it next month.

Yeah it's ridiculous. It's the reason why I play all multiplayer games on PC.
 
OP
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oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
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Who are these people saying they want only 100 games instead of 1000?

Probably people at Microsoft

Also, they're right, there are 1000s of shows on Netflix and I'm interested in barely any of them, yeah I'd rather have 100 shows I care about that 1000 I don't care about

Who has the time for 1000s of games anyway?

Would you rather have 100 AAA games or 1000 Steam tier garbage titles, and if you could have both, why would you want the shit tier garbage titles?
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Who are these people saying they want only 100 games instead of 1000?
Unfortunately, that is a very common sentiment across media. There's a reason what popular radio stations remain play a ridiculously narrow range of songs. People don't want 1000 songs. They want 100 songs on heavy rotation.
 
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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Unfortunately, that is a very common sentiment across media. There's a reason what popular radio stations remain play a ridiculously narrow range of songs. People don't want 1000 songs. They want 100 songs on heavy rotation.

A song lasts 3-5mins, a game lasts 10-500 hours, so it's not an apt comparison
 
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
Well, MS might not see subscription services becoming 'dominant' but imagine 5 subscription services from Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Bethesda, MS all launching their titles day and date on their subscription services. Then, it becomes hard for the Gamer to subscribe to all of them if these subscription services are all locked down to their own companies.
 

JaggedSac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
Burbs of Atlanta
I do think 100 is not enough if you want to offer people (with different tastes, different age groups, different ways of playing games) a good service for years to come. People who like racing games don't really have a reason to subscribe once FH4 gets old for them. At this point Gamepass caters to people with a varied taste.

There is actually a decent amount of racing games on the service. 6 or 7 I think.
 

SuperBanana

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,743
The problem is everyone wants a subscription service. I'm hapoy to lay $15 a month for a service but not $10-$15 x 15 services. At that point it's cheaper just buying shit outright.
 
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oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Well, MS might not see subscription services becoming 'dominant' but imagine 5 subscription services from Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Bethesda, MS all launching their titles day and date on their subscription services. Then, it becomes hard for the Gamer to subscribe to all of them if these subscription services are all locked down to their own companies.

If you own all 3 systems and play online with them you already have 3 subscriptions, and you pay your ISP as well, so that's 4, throw in Game Pass and you can have 5 already, just for games
 

Dimple

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,567
Well currently gamepass has something like 180 games, and while I don't think cutting it down to 100 would be a good move, bringing it down to something like 150 by cutting out some of the shovel ware (the kefling games spring to mind) and focusing on quality wouldn't be such a bad thing imo.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,986
"They really only want 100 games"... I want 1000 tho.
One hundred games is a fucking lot.

Disclaimer: I'm not interested in any way or form in those subscription services. They don't correspond at all to the way I play games.

Still, if you can only choose from 100 "evenly distributed" games, that's still a lot of choices.

Fuck, I barely play ten games a year, and I'm sure I'm in the first percentile of those who play the most games.
 

Spectone

Member
Probably people at Microsoft

Also, they're right, there are 1000s of shows on Netflix and I'm interested in barely any of them, yeah I'd rather have 100 shows I care about that 1000 I don't care about

Who has the time for 1000s of games anyway?

Would you rather have 100 AAA games or 1000 Steam tier garbage titles, and if you could have both, why would you want the shit tier garbage titles?
The problem is that the 100 games you want won't be the same as the 100 games someone else wants.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
I think we might end up there. Movies and music already reached a point where subscriptions lead the party, I wouldn't be surprised if gaming got there too eventually. It's not happening this or next-gen, though.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
A song lasts 3-5mins, a game lasts 10-500 hours, so it's not an apt comparison
People don't want variety, period. Here's another example. The reason why Aldi has become a global supermarket giant making 50 billion dollars a year is because they figured out that people don't want variety on their store shelves. They don't want 5 different brands of peanut butter. They want just one or two. They don't want different brands of jam. They just want one. They will happily embrace the complete destruction of diversity and options.

Traditional logic dictated that the way to win people over was to offer a range of options tailored to different demographics. It turns out, quite alarmingly, that the way to win people over is to do the exact opposite.
 
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oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
People don't want variety, period. Here's another example. The reason why Aldi has become a global supermarket giant making 50 billion dollars a year is because they figured out that people don't want variety on their store shelves. They don't want 5 different brands of peanut butter. They want just one or two. They don't want different brands of jam. They just want one. They will happily embrace the complete destruction of diversity and options.

Traditional logic dictated that the way to win people over was to offer a range of options tailored to different demographics. It turns out, quite alarmingly, that the way to win people over is to do the exact opposite.

Wouldn't that suggest MS are correct and offering 100 quality and popular games will be better for them than offering 1000s of obscure and unique games, and probably easier for them too

Most casual gamers who sink a lot of time into games are mainly playing these huge MP GaaS games, your Fortnite, Call of Duty, DOTA2, Overwatch, FIFA etc, so they don't even need 100 games. 10 would probably suit a huge percentage of the market, as long as they're the right 10 games
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
If you own all 3 systems and play online with them you already have 3 subscriptions, and you pay your ISP as well, so that's 4, throw in Game Pass and you can have 5 already, just for games

A cable bill is a subscription? Really? Is the electric bill a subscription? Renters or homeowners insurance? State and local property taxes? Income taxes? Wage taxes? Corporeal life?

When will the subscriptions stop?
 
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oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
A cable bill is a subscription? Really? Is the electric bill a subscription? Renters or homeowners insurance? State and local property taxes? Income taxes? Wage taxes? Corporeal life?

When will the subscriptions stop?

I was being tongue in cheek, but fair enough, 4 subscriptions to play one hobby is much more reasonable than 5, which would be absurd

4 is fine
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,865
People don't want variety, period. Here's another example. The reason why Aldi has become a global supermarket giant making 50 billion dollars a year is because they figured out that people don't want variety on their store shelves. They don't want 5 different brands of peanut butter. They want just one or two. They don't want different brands of jam. They just want one. They will happily embrace the complete destruction of diversity and options.

Traditional logic dictated that the way to win people over was to offer a range of options tailored to different demographics. It turns out, quite alarmingly, that the way to win people over is to do the exact opposite.

In Aldi's case people want cheap. Love Aldi.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Sounds like they don't want or even expect a future where the biggest titles hit Gamepass day 1.
 

MaitreWakou

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
May 15, 2018
13,180
Toulouse, France
Probably people at Microsoft

Also, they're right, there are 1000s of shows on Netflix and I'm interested in barely any of them, yeah I'd rather have 100 shows I care about that 1000 I don't care about

Who has the time for 1000s of games anyway?

Would you rather have 100 AAA games or 1000 Steam tier garbage titles, and if you could have both, why would you want the shit tier garbage titles?
Thing is, the service is not only for one person. Microsoft can give you 100 games you'll love. It'll be only 15 games another one like from that list, for instance.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,865
It's going to be ever evolving. What's important today might not be next year.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Wouldn't that suggest MS are correct and offering 100 quality and popular games will be better for them than offering 1000s of obscure and unique games, and probably easier for them too

Most casual gamers who sink a lot of time into games are mainly playing these huge MP GaaS games, your Fortnite, Call of Duty, DOTA2, Overwatch, FIFA etc, so they don't even need 100 games. 10 would probably suit a huge percentage of the market, as long as they're the right 10 games
Unfortunately, yes. Most people only buy one or two games every year currently. Of course one can point out that which two games they buy can vary somewhat, but we've reached a point where a huge chunk of the market has been consolidated by a very small group of companies.

I personally disagree with this entire approach because I feel that Game Pass can serve a greater artistic purpose -- helping introduce these people to games they wouldn't ordinarily play. Expanding their horizons. And all that stuff.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,366
I feel like people are getting hung up on '100 vs 1000' where the point was actually 'people want 100 really good games. Not 1000 games'.

And there isn't 100 games. There's always ~150.
 
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oni-link

tag reference no one gets
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Oct 25, 2017
16,032
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If they rotate the games a smaller number is fine.

I hate this, I've started two or three shows across Netflix and Now TV only for them to be pulled from the service before I'm done with them, and it sucks

Imagine being 20 hours into a 40 hour JRPG and either finding out you have a week to beat it before it's gone, or just turning your system on to find it randomly gone
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
I feel like people are getting hung up on '100 vs 1000' where the point was actually 'people want 100 really good games. Not 1000 games'.

And there isn't 100 games. There's always ~150.

Yeah, but doesn't more choice always lead to more satisfying results for every consumer? Good games first, agreed. But; a varied and big library is important too. There are so many different type of gamers. And they all have specific tastes.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,108
I agree with the notion of 100 over 1000. Since games are way bigger than movies and songs, lots of games would get lost when the catalogue is so big, so in that sense, it will be better for publishers to showcase their games when a pool is smaller.

I agree that MS needs to find out a good balance that attracts everyone
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,366
Yeah, but doesn't more choice always lead to more satisfying results for every consumer? Good games first, agreed. But; a varied and big library is important too. There are so many different type of gamers. And they all have specific tastes.

I feel like 150 games is a big library. 1000 games was clearly a figure of speech. I don't know if there are even 1000 games available on the console. 150 games is tons for £7.99 a month.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Probably people at Microsoft

Also, they're right, there are 1000s of shows on Netflix and I'm interested in barely any of them, yeah I'd rather have 100 shows I care about that 1000 I don't care about

Who has the time for 1000s of games anyway?

Would you rather have 100 AAA games or 1000 Steam tier garbage titles, and if you could have both, why would you want the shit tier garbage titles?
I agree with this, I don't want to sort through garbage to find a good game.

But at the same time one man's garbage is another man's treasure. So there needs to remain some sort of diversity. Let's say 200 games.
 

HMS_Pinafore

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,155
Straya M8
One of the big problems with Games Pass compared to Netflix is if I want to try out a show on Netflix, or if I have an impulse to watch something I can watch it right away.

With games pass I have to download a large file which could take hours on Australia's shitty internet, and by the time that's done I've lost that impulse to play the game.

I don't think we're anywhere close to having games streamed yet unfortunately but I think that needs to happen before the subscription model really takes off.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,865
I hate this, I've started two or three shows across Netflix and Now TV only for them to be pulled from the service before I'm done with them, and it sucks

Imagine being 20 hours into a 40 hour JRPG and either finding out you have a week to beat it before it's gone, or just turning your system on to find it randomly gone

You have the option to buy the game unlike Netflix.
 

Sloane Ranger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
631
New Albany
All I heard was an imaginary spokesperson saying "This is not what we are planning to do" while a thought bubble hovers over their head [he he yes it is, we just cant handle the backlash leading into next gen]
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
I feel like 150 games is a big library. 1000 games was clearly a figure of speech. I don't know if there are even 1000 games available on the console. 150 games is tons for £7.99 a month.

Sure.

But the best games are not neccesarilly the most varied type of games. That's why they shouldn't only focus on the good games, but also the variation. And that's easier with a bigger library.