We need to be more aggressive in trade talks with China

[FuckinEquality]

1st. We have leverage now over them. And the longer we wait the less leverage we have. We need to make them allow us to sell OUR stuff there without it being blocked or censored.
Things like films, iphones, even software.

When they force Google to censor or block Facebook or pit a quota on films . That's a tariff.

BUT who is bothering to do anything ? Nobody. It's sad and this steel tariff garbage is proof nobody in charge is paying attention.


CHINA ALREADY had import taxes on iPhones... That are made there.

They don't enforce copyright or patent laws.

ANY BAN they have on goods we make is not the free market. It limits our ability to sell OUR stuff there.

Also calm your brains. Being tough in negotiations on trade doesn't mean trade war.


Anyone who thinks China should be allowed to sell freely here while imposing restrictions on us selling stuff there doesn't understand how it affects us economically.

 

[BWoog]

1st. We have leverage now over them. And the longer we wait the less leverage we have. We need to make them allow us to sell OUR stuff there without it being blocked or censored.
Things like films, iphones, even software.

When they force Google to censor or block Facebook or pit a quota on films . That's a tariff.

Click to shrink...

What leverage do we have to "make them do what we want" exactly?

Also, censoring intellectual property is not a tariff. Come on now.

 

[orochi91]

I mean, trade war with Canada will be pretty bad for the US economy.

But a trade war with China seems like it would be significantly more disastrous, and likely have a severe ripple effect on international markets...

This seems like a really bad idea, captain~~~

 

[Squarehard]

Thought Trump got an account on ERA for a second there.

 

[Kthulhu]

You do know a trade war is a bad idea, right?

 

[Alwayscrazybacon]

1st. We have leverage now over them. And the longer we wait the less leverage we have. We need to make them allow us to sell OUR stuff there without it being blocked or censored.
Things like films, iphones, even software.

When they force Google to censor or block Facebook or pit a quota on films . That's a tariff.

BUT who is bothering to do anything ? Nobody. It's sad and this steel tariff garbage is proof nobody in charge is paying attention.

Click to shrink...

There's doing a good service by allowing superior products to gain market exposure. I bet the Chinese are really upset they can't get iPhones or see every foreign film. America is the one who should be buying more Chinese manufactured products, it's all about choice as a consumer and not supporting huge corporations. Who's in charge here?

 

[FuckinEquality]

I mean, trade war with Canada will be pretty bad for the US economy.

But a trade war with China seems like it would be significantly more disastrous, and likely have a severe ripple effect on international markets...

This seems like a really bad idea, captain~~~

Click to shrink...

They rely on us to consume things their mass poor makes. If we began shifting to Vietnam, India, Mexico etc . They would feel effects . Political instability is their greatest fear .

Thought Trump got an account on ERA for a second there.

Click to shrink...

Wtf is this comment

 

[FuckinEquality]

You do know a trade war is a bad idea, right?

Click to shrink...

Being more aggressive in trade negotiations isn't trade war.

 

[Alwayscrazybacon]

Wtf is this comment

Click to shrink...

That was going to be my reply.

 

[Pet]

They rely on us to consume things their mass poor makes. If we began shifting to Vietnam, India, Mexico etc . They would feel effects . Political instability is their greatest fear .

Click to shrink...

Who is going to pay for suddenly shifting things to other countries? The infrastructure isn't there. Someone will have to pay for it.

Also, we already have a lot of stuff from Vietnam, India, Mexico, and other poor countries. As it gets more expensive to manufacture in China, companies slowly find alternatives.

 

[Kthulhu]

Being more aggressive in trade negotiations isn't trade war.

Click to shrink...

They will never allow Google or Facebook so long as the party continues their authoritarian streak.

 

[Netherscourge]

Being more aggressive in trade negotiations isn't trade war.

Click to shrink...

Imposing tariffs is trade war.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

What do you think the TPP was for?

 

[Taki]

is this phantom menace?

 

[Cotton McKnight]

Thought Trump got an account on ERA for a second there.

Click to shrink...

I think you may be right. I'm not sure we have the leverage on China to go Bully USA mode on them at this point. Maybe in the 90s. They want to be #1 right now, and they have the ability to get there. How are they going to be OK with the US saying, "Whoa there buddy do what we want, so we can stay #1" It's inevitable, we're going to get surpassed, too many mistakes to count have led us here.

 

[Lucky241]

China forces foreign companies to partner with domestic companies to gain access to the market. We should do the same to them.

 

[Felt]

This is a classic example of "I WANT IT RIGHT NOWWWWW!!!!!!!" lol. Why do we need to put pressure on them and let the whole world blame us for our greed if they call our bluffs or anything escalates? Let their people rise up and cause instability in their own country for less oppression. Win win for the rest of the world. Then we can be right there to offer them all the awesome snapchat filters they could ever want. Ain't nobody complaining about their cheap stuff from Walmart.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

If you go to war, any kind of war, you should get some partners.

Remember World War II, allied nations, that kind of stuff?

 

[Cocaloch]

What leverage do we have to "make them do what we want" exactly?

Also, censoring intellectual property is not a tariff. Come on now.

Click to shrink...

It's effectively a tariff. China uses them to build tariff walls to make import substitutions.

 

[Benjamin]

The simplest irony is that the US is the largest benefactor of global open markets: it's a primary reason for it's continuing wealth. Imposing tariffs on imports will cause reciprocal action against US goods and services, which will significantly hurt the US as much as anyone.

 

[Vanillalite]

Imposing tariffs is trade war.

Click to shrink...

Then we are already in trade war seeing as China imposes tariffs on all imported automibiles not made inside of China.

I'm not saying I agree with the OP, but this line of thinking is already happening to some degree.

 

[ReAxion]

who are you talking to

 

[Wolven Hammer]

That was sorta the purpose of the TPP.

 

[Kthulhu]

I think you may be right. I'm not sure we have the leverage on China to go Bully USA mode on them at this point. Maybe in the 90s. They want to be #1 right now, and they have the ability to get there. How are they going to be OK with the US saying, "Whoa there buddy do what we want, so we can stay #1" It's inevitable, we're going to get surpassed, too many mistakes to count have led us here.

Click to shrink...

I'm really curious as to what people imagine when they think China will be a super power.

 

[Aftervirtue]

I believe between the recent news about abolishing political term limits for the president and further back to the disputed south china sea enclave, China is really beginning to shove formality wayside and show its teeth.

Trade wars are terrible, but most of us in the West should shed the optimism that somehow China is "opening" up in any meaningful way to Western liberal values. If/when China really tries to fills the void in the global order because Trump and his admin has abandoned global stewardship, the last year of Trump will be nothing compared to the malestorm that awaits us.

For all the justifiable negative talk of Trump and Russia, conversation of China is always murky, maybe because they don't claim to be liberal, maybe because we just keep waiting for that bend towards universal human rights and freedom that we have been promised would happen as they liberalize and open up towards the West.

 

[Alwayscrazybacon]

Then we are already in trade war seeing as China imposes tariffs on all imported automibiles not made inside of China.

Click to shrink...

That's totally not fair, the US would never do that.

https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car

 

[bremon]

is this phantom menace?

Click to shrink...

Lol the reboot 18 years later with Darth Simplest in the White House.

 

[PorkandBeans]

Sounds like a job for an expert negotiator. I know just the dipshit for the job...

 

[Vanillalite]

That's totally not fair, the US would never do that.

https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car

Click to shrink...

I didn't say it was fair either way.

I'm just saying the issue is more complicated than some of the hand waving we get on this issue while agreeing that a trade war right now is probably not the best option.

 

[bremon]

Sounds like a job for an expert negotiator. I know just the dipshit for the job...

Click to shrink...

So true! He knows how to call countries out when they act cute!

 

[Renna Hazel]

Plenty of American companies lobby to keep import taxes from China very low. I don't think this is going to change anytime soon.

 

[Azuran]

You should run for president in 2020 because it's obvious you have no absolutely idea how economic trade works. You're more than qualified for the position!

 

[Deleted member 3335]

USA is basically getting things for free from the world markets - which also includes China.

 

[Alwayscrazybacon]

I didn't say it was fair either way.

I'm just saying the issue is more complicated than some of the hand waving we get on this issue while agreeing that a trade war right now is probably not the best option.

Click to shrink...

But what about the imported car tariff? How can they get away with it!

 

[Menx64]

They rely on us to consume things their mass poor makes. If we began shifting to Vietnam, India, Mexico etc . They would feel effects . Political instability is their greatest fear .

Click to shrink...

If you think cheap labor is the main reason those companies are in China instead of other countries, then my friend you do not know what your are talking about.

If you are hoping for China to go all in in the free market, then maybe think about removing all the subsidies the US has to kill small farmers all around first, then we'll talk.

 

[Vanillalite]

But what about the imported car tariff? How can they get away with it!

Click to shrink...

Guess we are at war then. Someone should alert news at ERA News @ 11

 

[Kiunch]

What do you think the TPP was for?

Click to shrink...

^ TPP was great, we used our influences to ask a lot of countries to pressure China into signing a more fair trading deals with the rest of the world.

 

[Alwayscrazybacon]

Guess we are at war then. Someone should alert news at ERA News @ 11

Click to shrink...

Quick PM the OP.

 

[tino]

Hiking up the solar panel and steel tariff is not going to make these industries come back.

First of all, the Chinese people will sustain pain and recession longer than the American people. This is just a fact I am not going to waste time explain it.

Secondly China is a State capitalist country, China will reimburse these industries for as long as possible to out last the trade war.

Third, Chinese government last longer than the typical 4/8-year US foreign policy. The US will fold the trade war after the current president leave. It doesn't matter who is China's president but in this case God Emperor Xi will be running the show well into next US administration.

 

[FuckinEquality]

Who is going to pay for suddenly shifting things to other countries? The infrastructure isn't there. Someone will have to pay for it.

Also, we already have a lot of stuff from Vietnam, India, Mexico, and other poor countries. As it gets more expensive to manufacture in China, companies slowly find alternatives.

Click to shrink...

Find solutions.
Implement them. "OHOH KNOW ITS NOT EASY GUESS JUST LET THEM DO WHATEVER."

no.

They will never allow Google or Facebook so long as the party continues their authoritarian streak.

Click to shrink...

Their power is linked to their political stability. Once we have the right path to challenging that via trade without it being a war. We win.

Imposing tariffs is trade war.

Click to shrink...

Who the fak said impose tariffs ? FIRST they already do on our stuff.
So...

Let it be ?

What do you think the TPP was for?

Click to shrink...

Not China ?

is this phantom menace?

Click to shrink...

Wtf comment is this. Make an actual reply or don't bother.

I think you may be right. I'm not sure we have the leverage on China to go Bully USA mode on them at this point. Maybe in the 90s. They want to be #1 right now, and they have the ability to get there. How are they going to be OK with the US saying, "Whoa there buddy do what we want, so we can stay #1" It's inevitable, we're going to get surpassed, too many mistakes to count have led us here.

Click to shrink...

Yes.

We need to do something tho. But can't with the economic brick to the head that is Trump policies .

China forces foreign companies to partner with domestic companies to gain access to the market. We should do the same to them.

Click to shrink...

EXACTLY!

This is a classic example of "I WANT IT RIGHT NOWWWWW!!!!!!!" lol. Why do we need to put pressure on them and let the whole world blame us for our greed if they call our bluffs or anything escalates? Let their people rise up and cause instability in their own country for less oppression. Win win for the rest of the world. Then we can be right there to offer them all the awesome snapchat filters they could ever want. Ain't nobody complaining about their cheap stuff from Walmart.

Click to shrink...

What are you even talking about ? Every iPhone or Disney movie we can't sell there, or business they don't allow us to set up there is jobs that affect US.

I don't give two shits about their authoritarian government or their oppressed people (well I do. But that isn't what my purpose is.)

WE the American people and our allies, Japan , most of Europe , SKorea, Mexico ,Canada etc. We need to all work together to force them to cooperate with free trade.

We are all a big fucking family. Same blood same emotions same basic goals. And when this big red Hen imposes barriers on it's chicken coup it is something that really affects us all.

Trump with the steel tariffs blew the news up and wrecked markets. It's stupid and he needs thrown out . Pense too. Give us economics majors . Not religious nut jobs or lawyers .

But there is something bigger that we don't notice. And that's the restrictions China imposes on our collective ability to make money on their people that WANT to buy or see or use our stuff .

 

[Avinash117]

If you are okay with the tariffs than here is something to think about.

If you want to be aggressive to China when it comes to trade that is fine and dandy, but the tariffs are stupid because there's NO strategy behind of them. It would make sense if Trump actually has an idea of what exactly he wants and what exactly he needs to do; he doesn't and the result of it is lose jobs for no reason.

You have to have a plan in place to start any negotiations and effectively use that leverage, otherwise this move is flat out stupid, short-sighted, and pretends the world is only China and the US(ignoring the fact that other countries will retaliate and hurt us.) .

There's likely bunch of different ways to counter act China like getting Asian countries to have a trade agreement with the US.....like the TPP.

 

[FuckinEquality]

Hiking up the solar panel and steel tariff is not going to make these industries come back.

First of all, the Chinese people will sustain pain and recession longer than the American people. This is just a fact I am not going to waste time explain it.

Secondly China is a State capitalist country, China will reimburse these industries for as long as possible to out last the trade war.

Third, Chinese government last longer than the typical 4/8-year US foreign policy. The US will fold the trade war after the current president leave. It doesn't matter who is China's president but in this case God Emperor Xi will be running the show well into next US administration.

Click to shrink...

Welp guess we better bend over and do nothing. WOE IS WE WHO CANT DO ANYTHING. Why even bother trying .

Just .


Give up. Try our best maybe but . Whatever. It's all futile anyways .

 

[Alwayscrazybacon]

Find solutions.
Implement them. "OHOH KNOW ITS NOT EASY GUESS JUST LET THEM DO WHATEVER."

no.




Their power is linked to their political stability. Once we have the right path to challenging that via trade without it being a war. We win.



Who the fak said impose tariffs ? FIRST they already do on our stuff.
So...

Let it be ?



Not China ?




Wtf comment is this. Make an actual reply or don't bother.




Yes.

We need to do something tho. But can't with the economic brick to the head that is Trump policies .



EXACTLY!



What are you even talking about ? Every iPhone or Disney movie we can't sell there, or business they don't allow us to set up there is jobs that affect US.

I don't give two shits about their authoritarian government or their oppressed people (well I do. But that isn't what my purpose is.)

WE the American people and our allies, Japan , most of Europe , SKorea, Mexico ,Canada etc. We need to all work together to force them to cooperate with free trade.

We are all a big fucking family. Same blood same emotions same basic goals. And when this big red Hen imposes barriers on it's chicken coup it is something that really affects us all.

Trump with the steel tariffs blew the news up and wrecked markets. It's stupid and he needs thrown out . Pense too. Give us economics majors . Not religious nut jobs or lawyers .

But there is something bigger that we don't notice. And that's the restrictions China imposes on our collective ability to make money on their people that WANT to buy or see or use our stuff .

Click to shrink...

Hey does anyone have Facebook or Twitter for FuckinEquality to let him know he left his browser open and his Trump supporting grandmother is posting thinking Era's her Facebook?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Not China ?

Click to shrink...

China was the main target of TPP, we put together a trading bloc of mainly SEA nations to combat China's growing clout. That's how you push them economically without doing a trade war which hurts everyone.

 

[FuckinEquality]

If you are okay with the tariffs than here is something to think about.

If you want to be aggressive to China when it comes to trade that is fine and dandy, but the tariffs are stupid because there's NO strategy behind of them. It would make sense if Trump actually has an idea of what exactly he wants and what exactly he needs to do; he doesn't and the result of it is lose jobs for no reason.

You have to have a plan in place to start any negotiations and effectively use that leverage, otherwise this move is flat out stupid, short-sighted, and pretends the world is only China and the US(ignoring the fact that other countries will retaliate and hurt us.) .

There's likely bunch of different ways to counter act China like getting Asian countries to have a trade agreement with the US.....like the TPP.

Click to shrink...

Where did I say I was okay with tariffs. Where ? Maybe I wasn't clear . I'm not.

Their restrictions are ECONOMIC TARIFFS. Which is what I'm talking about.

And yes we need our allies to help in this .

 

[Pet]

Find solutions.
Implement them. "OHOH KNOW ITS NOT EASY GUESS JUST LET THEM DO WHATEVER."

no.

Click to shrink...

No, I'm asking you how you think it can ever happen. I'm asking if you understand why US companies do so much manufacturing in China, and I'm asking if you understand why companies move out of China (as in, what would need to happen and why they do already).

If you don't understand even those basic principles, then no one is going to answer your question to your satisfaction, not because we don't have the answers but because you'd be incapable of recognizing the solution if presented to you.

 

[Dekuman]

China is here to stay and cannot be ignored. But ill be glad when we move manufacturing away from them.

I want to hope and believe they will mature in a credible power but for all of Trumps bluster Chinas belligerence and slow march of militarism does not sit well with me. Their ace in the hole right now is they are the worlds factory.

Most of their immediate neighbours feel the same. Despite of Duterte declaring new alignments away from traditional ally the US for example Filipino views on China is very negative.

 

[FuckinEquality]

China was the main target of TPP, we put together a trading bloc of mainly SEA nations to combat China's growing clout. That's how you push them economically without doing a trade war which hurts everyone.

Click to shrink...

Well what the hell . I really really despise this stupid administration.

 

[Deleted member 907]

This thread is Yellow Peril, The OT.

What the fuck.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril

 

[Ebullientprism]

Era has leverage on China?