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We need to have a talk about how Era Users Interact with users with Disabilities and Accessibility Issues.
- Thread starter Deleted member 5334
- Start date
Just want to extend my sympathies and frustrations with everyone here. Those types of threads are exceedingly frustrating to say the least. I had to re-edit my post in there a few times as it was just a bit too aggressive and angry with it. Staff really needs to set some better ground rules and zero tolerance policies for these kinds of discussions. It's not right at all.
Just blatantly saying you don't want options because they'll be too tempting should be grounds for immediate ban with hefty lengths. It's just so unbelievably selfish and shitty to think, let alone say. Same for people would argue they're for "accessibility options, but not difficulty options."
Just blatantly saying you don't want options because they'll be too tempting should be grounds for immediate ban with hefty lengths. It's just so unbelievably selfish and shitty to think, let alone say. Same for people would argue they're for "accessibility options, but not difficulty options."
Update, I got it off to her, it's definitely the type of resource she's looking for. Now it is 4am and I must sleeeep. Much love to you all <3
Well as we learned today, you can post bigotry as long as the OP of a thread doesn't directly address disabled people. And it'll just continue on that way with the Souls cult continuing to shit on disabled people, touting it as the greatest series ever made, the series in which every choice is perfect for every person and you can't possibly disagree.
But also you aren't allowed to interject with a point of view that crosses over with the topic of discussion, including when it's blatant bigotry being posted, nevermind that every thread about THQ or its affiliated threads is fully allowed, rightfully, to have people interject and talk about their 8chan garbage, regardless of what game or topic the thread was actually about.
The staff on this forum continue to make the same mistakes as they did with AsianERA and it's just immensely disappointing and baffling.
But also you aren't allowed to interject with a point of view that crosses over with the topic of discussion, including when it's blatant bigotry being posted, nevermind that every thread about THQ or its affiliated threads is fully allowed, rightfully, to have people interject and talk about their 8chan garbage, regardless of what game or topic the thread was actually about.
The staff on this forum continue to make the same mistakes as they did with AsianERA and it's just immensely disappointing and baffling.
I mean does that surprise anyone disability rights are so far behind its not even funny. The "value" of disable person less than a able-body in today society. The souls series could easily have a more relax setting where you slow down time for the less able folks, thankfully we are away from the smash x or a button quick time events stuff for the most part.
I did some reports and then left the thread because I had to run some errands, but I literally cannot believe (I mean... I can believe, but y'know) there's not a single even warning in that thread. I only very rarely go over to the gaming side and this is 100% why, but also the fact that they refuse to moderate gaming side like at all (unless it's console warring which we all know is the most important issue of all time) because they don't want to alienate the bigoted users is just... ugh.
I just don't get how it's okay to have "the able bodied are literally only thinking of themselves when they make threads about easy/assist modes/etc and so therefore nothing they say can be ableist and if you try to discuss accessibility in those threads you're out of line" as like... an official staff position.
I just don't get how it's okay to have "the able bodied are literally only thinking of themselves when they make threads about easy/assist modes/etc and so therefore nothing they say can be ableist and if you try to discuss accessibility in those threads you're out of line" as like... an official staff position.
Oh good! I really love the idea of having those sorts of resources posted, so I'm glad. Sleep well, I hope you get get some good rest!
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I'm okay, just... Frustrated with that thread and honestly, wanna cry because I can't do more to help without being called out, as if I was intentionally try to start stuff (which was not the case). In fact, being called out by that mod in that thread, and only me, and no one else (and when really the people who needed to be called out were others), is really upsetting to the point I just wanna give up on this and cry.
I hate the fact I have disabilities and the mental health issues I have as is, not able to have a normal life and often rely on others because they're bad enough they impact aspects of my day to day (as many of my disabilities are non-visible), and to see someone else who is also disabled just enable this, especially on the modding team... I'm honestly crying about this. This has been my entire fucking life in a nutshell. It's fucking unfair.
I may just take a break for a bit from here, and honestly, I won't be shocked if I get banned for the post I made in that thread (and really, surprised I haven't). I'm just so tired of the hand-waving and I hate seeing people who are the most vulnerable here be attacked.
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I'm genuinely considering asking for account deletion as being a part of this site with the shit that is going on is fucking depressing. That mod post was fucking heartbreaking especially as a disabled person themselves.
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I'm crying over it. It comes off like many people I've met in my life and it reminds me of, notably specifically for the mental health sides of "I was able to overcome it, why can't you", in terms of tone and energy. That's how that post felt to me. And the OP in the thread even agreed with the importance how these being accessibility options, even if the original intent wasn't for that specifically. And I don't understand how ablest comments are justified, regardless if the OP's intent was or wasn't (when ultimately, at the end of the day, it's accessibility options).
I'm really upset by all this. As a disabled person, due to mental health and mental disabilities, I've always struggled with shit. And the fact this forum is not even a safe place for me and other people with disabilities and mental health issues, I just...
If being on this site is taking a toll on your health, don't hesitate to delete your account. I did the same thing recently on another forum I used to be super active on. I realized the folks there were never going to change, and they were dragging me down with them, so there was no point in sticking around. And while I personally feel like the situation on resetera in comparison isn't bad enough for me to leave, I completely understand why someone who has been part of this community for far longer than me would feel differently.
(However, if you go through with this, I would strongly recommend keeping in contact with any friends/allies you have made on this site. For instance, register an account on discord if you don't already have one, and either and join/make a server, or just do DMs. There are other avenues, of course, but this is what I've personally switched to, and it's been such a massive improvement over wasting time and energy on that other message board I was part of.)
Been here since the start, and there's been a few times where I concerned, but by the same token when I reached out for help during a suicide attempt people here were lovely. It feels way more different now and a lot more hostile. There's always been a slight stima regarding mental health on here but it's suffocating currently and physical disability as shown in that thread is basically treated like something they have trodden in.
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Anyways, I'm gonna take a break for a bit, but I'll still be lurking. Just exhausted at these threads, given everything. If you guys need to reach out, just DM me, alright?
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Please, people, read my latest post in the other thread and Mendinso's response before assuming anything rash. We are all on the same side, and I feel we are on the cusp of starting something great here on Era as far as the discussion surrounding accessibility.
It just has to begin in the right way.
It just has to begin in the right way.
I saw it and it was why I made a specific offshoot for the accessibility side. But the bad actors in the other thread are ignoring it because they know they have free reign to post ableist comments in the previous thread which continues to happen. I am really trying to be civil with people in there but it's getting real damn hard
Just had saw the recent post, it cleared my issues with the original post so it's all good.
Just been on edge lately with the influx of these "but muh hard mode dark souls git gud mentality would be challenged by an easy babby mode!!!1!" replies. Like that one "maybe this game isn't for you, lol" reply.
I have zero plans to stop reporting shitty posts as I see them and I fully expect action to be taken in some form. Whether that's actual bans or a very large post up front thrown in the face of the entire forum to knock off the shit or something equally strong is up to you. I don't really care if the posters posting that shit are long time forum users or not.
The right way is to not allow bigotry.
The right way is to not allow bigotry.
Came here from the thread laoni made, glad to see there's so many of us disabled users. It's nice to be reminded I'm not alone.
I saw multiple people, including myself, bring up the piss poor reactions when it comes to conversations about accessibility and disabilty in the feedback thread the other day, so hopefully at some point we'll make some sort of headway. Though the reaction to other common issues that have been raised makes me heavily suspect. It gets really frustrating. At least we understand each other for the most part?
I saw multiple people, including myself, bring up the piss poor reactions when it comes to conversations about accessibility and disabilty in the feedback thread the other day, so hopefully at some point we'll make some sort of headway. Though the reaction to other common issues that have been raised makes me heavily suspect. It gets really frustrating. At least we understand each other for the most part?
Mendinso I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. I've done my fair share of reporting ableist posts but it seems to be an endemic problem. I haven't really been in that thread but I've seen plenty of ableism elsewhere in other posts. Better moderation would certainly help, but I also believe better education would go a long way towards people having a better understanding of why addressing accessibility matters.
While I myself am not disabled, my work is focused on accessibility so I would be happen to help in any way I can.
While I myself am not disabled, my work is focused on accessibility so I would be happen to help in any way I can.
Sure, I'll give it another go today. But I don't know how many spoons I have to give today, I'm feeling pretty raw. For now, you have my axe.
Found this thread through the other one and just want to say I really appreciate the positivity and supportiveness towards people's needs in regards to accessibility in games in this thread - its heartening to see, and I'll be reading through the thread proper.
One thing I want to flag up that I, and I'm sure others, have issues with in games is framerate and framepacing.
I suffer visual difficulties that leave me migraine sensitive amongst other things. Link's Awakening was a game that I was really looking forward to last year, and yet the unstable framerate and framepacing gives me discomfort at best. I posted about this in a thread about the framerate issues (which have gone unpatched for almost a year now), and yet posts still followed mine that were claiming it wasn't so bad and that calling it 'unplayable' is overreacting.
Sure, many might not have noticed framerate inconsistency in this title (no wonder given how much of this forum managed Bloodborne in its entirety), but for players like myself it means we simply can't play the game. When devs nowadays have been willing to put in the work to ship with features like variable fonts and font sizes, scalable UI, colour-blind mode etc., I see no reason why a framerate-cap at 30fps toggle can't be patched in, thus making it stable and consistent. (Yes, I know it's not very Nintendo to provide graphical options, but nor is excluding certain players from a game with mass appeal by not chasing stable performance).
With most games I can do my research and pick the console version with the most stable performance (although towards the end of gen many console ports have had issues on all platforms), but obviously I don't have that luxury with first-party titles. I bought the Limited Edition for this and yet I've managed 15 minutes. The artbook's nice though.
Stable framerates are obviously more comfortable, and I'd take a 30fps option for pretty much any game. 60fps can be quite strenuous, especially with some genres - it's fast and overly fluid, and I've been shouted down a lot for voicing my preference for 30fps based on sheer comfort and ease of play. I'd love it if a lot of 60fps games had 30fps options that could be toggled - I remain a fan of the 'cinematic' game for reasons beyond aesthetics. Of course, I respect that most people want a push for 60fps in most games, but options hurt no one - I'm not asking for a graphically prettier 30fps version, just a 30fps version full stop. Some genres I'm more than fine with it though and 30fps wouldn't necessarily suit - I wouldn't favour a 30fps Smash Bros or Bayonetta, for example.
Fonts are a big thing for me too, especially in visual novels. Little Busters, which I'm playing at the moment, has multiple font choices and sizes to choose from (the default's super comfy though), whereas Raging Loop, another game I was looking forward to, has a really tall thin font that simply isn't comfortable to read and no options to change it. Again, I've managed about 15 minutes of this one despite my strong desire to play it.
Many don't seem to realise that visual accessibility goes beyond epilepsy, not that that should be dismissed either, and that more options hurt no one and help a lot of people. Anyway, sorry for the long post.
One thing I want to flag up that I, and I'm sure others, have issues with in games is framerate and framepacing.
I suffer visual difficulties that leave me migraine sensitive amongst other things. Link's Awakening was a game that I was really looking forward to last year, and yet the unstable framerate and framepacing gives me discomfort at best. I posted about this in a thread about the framerate issues (which have gone unpatched for almost a year now), and yet posts still followed mine that were claiming it wasn't so bad and that calling it 'unplayable' is overreacting.
Sure, many might not have noticed framerate inconsistency in this title (no wonder given how much of this forum managed Bloodborne in its entirety), but for players like myself it means we simply can't play the game. When devs nowadays have been willing to put in the work to ship with features like variable fonts and font sizes, scalable UI, colour-blind mode etc., I see no reason why a framerate-cap at 30fps toggle can't be patched in, thus making it stable and consistent. (Yes, I know it's not very Nintendo to provide graphical options, but nor is excluding certain players from a game with mass appeal by not chasing stable performance).
With most games I can do my research and pick the console version with the most stable performance (although towards the end of gen many console ports have had issues on all platforms), but obviously I don't have that luxury with first-party titles. I bought the Limited Edition for this and yet I've managed 15 minutes. The artbook's nice though.
Stable framerates are obviously more comfortable, and I'd take a 30fps option for pretty much any game. 60fps can be quite strenuous, especially with some genres - it's fast and overly fluid, and I've been shouted down a lot for voicing my preference for 30fps based on sheer comfort and ease of play. I'd love it if a lot of 60fps games had 30fps options that could be toggled - I remain a fan of the 'cinematic' game for reasons beyond aesthetics. Of course, I respect that most people want a push for 60fps in most games, but options hurt no one - I'm not asking for a graphically prettier 30fps version, just a 30fps version full stop. Some genres I'm more than fine with it though and 30fps wouldn't necessarily suit - I wouldn't favour a 30fps Smash Bros or Bayonetta, for example.
Fonts are a big thing for me too, especially in visual novels. Little Busters, which I'm playing at the moment, has multiple font choices and sizes to choose from (the default's super comfy though), whereas Raging Loop, another game I was looking forward to, has a really tall thin font that simply isn't comfortable to read and no options to change it. Again, I've managed about 15 minutes of this one despite my strong desire to play it.
Many don't seem to realise that visual accessibility goes beyond epilepsy, not that that should be dismissed either, and that more options hurt no one and help a lot of people. Anyway, sorry for the long post.
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Not really a bump to talk about any thread in particular but... Hey guys, how's everyone holding up?
I'm... okay, though haven't been sleeping well and last couple nights were rough. Even my streaming stuff has been a bit off, because of that (and FF2 just in general not going well). Week has been absolutely horrible, mostly due to everything going on in the world, protests, personal self, and now I'm seeing people use Chadwick Boseman's death on Twitter to spew ablest crap. Absolutely fucking vile, good god.
Hope everyone else is hanging in there, despite obviously everything that's happening..
I'm... okay, though haven't been sleeping well and last couple nights were rough. Even my streaming stuff has been a bit off, because of that (and FF2 just in general not going well). Week has been absolutely horrible, mostly due to everything going on in the world, protests, personal self, and now I'm seeing people use Chadwick Boseman's death on Twitter to spew ablest crap. Absolutely fucking vile, good god.
Hope everyone else is hanging in there, despite obviously everything that's happening..
Hey!
I'm doing okay, panicking a bit about covid numbers rising in my country, but physically I've been doing okay.
Hang in there, and take a break from social media if it gets to you. Twitter can be a awful, I had to take a break a few days ago when I saw "I stand with Rowling" trending, ugh.
The thread in the gaming section went really quiet, didn't it?
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Honestly, it did. And really, the discussions suddenly as a whole went quiet in that regards, as far as I can see.
Though it's only a matter of time until then... Sigh.
By the way, I did contact the mod in private, since they wanted my input on some stuff. Haven't heard anything back, but I did at least get back to them (I felt bad it took as long as I did, but I'm really mentally exhausted and was lucky I could even really type up what I did on Wednesday).
I've been super stressed in rl, university work, putting an offer in on a house, I forgot my meds one day so I was struggling with trying to fend off a migraine for a few days.
But, I have a week uni break so, hopefully that'll give me the chance to catch my breath and health back up to finish off this term
But, I have a week uni break so, hopefully that'll give me the chance to catch my breath and health back up to finish off this term
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I took a risk about asking about Ys's situation with the bump system games and if there was a version or if they'd make a version without the bump system, and well...
Sigh.
www.resetera.com
EDIT: Thankfully some posters were completely understanding, and one was legit just a misunderstanding (which we both apologized for). But as always... People can be pretty dismissive at times.
Sigh.
Will Ys 1 and 2 ever be remade without the bump system..? (Accessibility rant)
So, one of the problems I've ran into with the first two Ys games, is they've never been remade with a modern battle system for real time combat. I know people swear up and down by the bump system, but both because of how I process directions (spatial relations, directional issues, depth...
www.resetera.com
EDIT: Thankfully some posters were completely understanding, and one was legit just a misunderstanding (which we both apologized for). But as always... People can be pretty dismissive at times.
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Hi, I can't find the Mental Health thread so I'm here. (I got brain damage. It sucks but I manage.)
I thought the Ys thread was interesting because I couldn't really connect with the Ys bump system as well, but I chalked it up to game design whose mechanical results didn't align with the mental expectation of what is happening (as in, it's a bad game.) it's good to know that they did remake it with proper controls, and if you're willing to emulate it, hopefully said emulation software will allow you to modify it for further accessibility.
I thought the Ys thread was interesting because I couldn't really connect with the Ys bump system as well, but I chalked it up to game design whose mechanical results didn't align with the mental expectation of what is happening (as in, it's a bad game.) it's good to know that they did remake it with proper controls, and if you're willing to emulate it, hopefully said emulation software will allow you to modify it for further accessibility.
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User banned (2 weeks): dismissive and tone-deaf commentary surrounding accessibility
Wait, what? I'm confused. The "Bump" system is literally just "walk into enemies until they die." How can an "action" game get any simpler than that? I don't understand how adding in a "modern combat system" would make the combat more accessible. In fact, I'm not sure how one could even add in a "modern combt system" without simply remaking the game completely from the ground up. At best, you could probably add in a 2D Zelda esque sword swinging "attack" action without much difficulty, but that would be about it....and I'm not sure how that would help at all.I took a risk about asking about Ys's situation with the bump system games and if there was a version or if they'd make a version without the bump system, and well...
Sigh.
Will Ys 1 and 2 ever be remade without the bump system..? (Accessibility rant)
So, one of the problems I've ran into with the first two Ys games, is they've never been remade with a modern battle system for real time combat. I know people swear up and down by the bump system, but both because of how I process directions (spatial relations, directional issues, depth...
EDIT: Thankfully some posters were completely understanding, and one was legit just a misunderstanding (which we both apologized for). But as always... People can be pretty dismissive at times.
It's also worth noting that those games are explicitly grindy on purpose. Espcially Y's I. Y's I is a terrible game that's basically a 20 minute demo stretched to a full length RPG through unmitigated BS that includes a ridiculous leveling curves that absolutely forces you to spend hours grinding through the game in order to beat certain bosses. It's also just a really poorly constructed game with terrible design and hitboxes and whatnot.
I think this falls under a scenario where the requirements for accessibility are so strange and unexpected that it's hard to think of what's even going on. Like, I personally have difficulty understanding what kind of common disabilities would make the "bump system" difficult to deal with as opposed to a full-fledged action system like in "Oath of Felgahana". The bump system is about as conceptually simple as it gets.
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I literally explained in the OP, both in this thread and the above thread: I cannot understand spatial relations, directions, depth perception, and similar issues. This results in me having trouble understanding how to deal with systems like this. Bump system is "simple", in the aspect it is for an able-bodied individual. For a person like me, because of my disability? Not so much.
People forget about psychological/brain issues that can be accessibility issues. It's not 100% the same as a physical disability, even though it can present itself in physical issues (such as my brain freezing up when I struggle with too complex operations and quick/repeated actions, and I have a slower overall reaction time) at times.
Can you PLEASE not come in here, a thread that is about accessibility issues, and how people, like how you're posting in here, are getting judgmental about people like use when we try to bring attention to these issues.
Like, WHY did you come in here in this thread to only start issues? A thread LITERALLY about these type of responses you're giving me here.
Is that something like what's been described as "Irlen Syndrome"?
I try not to self diagnose but my vision is a lot like what goes on in this clip, and it's anecdotally speaking it's tied to stress and overstimulation. For me I think it's just a busted visual cortex.
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With something like the bump system as well, it can fall into ambiguous phrasing. What is an 'odd angle'? For a lot of players you might just run with the vague gist of it and try your best, but for others, it'll be something that simply reinforces the frustration when you fail to make it work right, especially if you thought you had it right that time but oh whoops no your brain's playing tricks on you and you just went right into them rather than pull away after clipping. Or you stopped before you should have, and now the enemy's walked into you because you don't get to have proper predictive abilities you poor sod. You won't even necessarily realise any of that is what's happened because of how the information is or isn't compiled together after the fact
The baseline for what is simplicity is not universal, even if some of the most particular cases apply to only a very small percentage of us. While this doesn't necessitate that the games be changed to accommodate, the basic premise and hope of Mendinso's thread - on whether or not they could (in terms of likely possibility) be remade - remains true: That until such an option emerges, it prevents them, as someone very much wanting to get into these games specifically - and not simply seeking 'games like them' for which there might otherwise be alternatives - successfully engaging with the product. That shouldn't be seen as an unreasonable position, even if equally, it's unlikely to come about.
The baseline for what is simplicity is not universal, even if some of the most particular cases apply to only a very small percentage of us. While this doesn't necessitate that the games be changed to accommodate, the basic premise and hope of Mendinso's thread - on whether or not they could (in terms of likely possibility) be remade - remains true: That until such an option emerges, it prevents them, as someone very much wanting to get into these games specifically - and not simply seeking 'games like them' for which there might otherwise be alternatives - successfully engaging with the product. That shouldn't be seen as an unreasonable position, even if equally, it's unlikely to come about.
Forgive my reticence regarding gaming accessibility threads, as I'm not always up to posting, but know I'm on y'all's side here. It makes me sad to see people bristle against the topic like it's some sort of battleground.
What I don't get in particular is the common "just play something else" argument used on this website (and others, I'm sure, but Im talking about Era), because...if you like/love the game, why wouldn't you want others to experience it?
What I don't get in particular is the common "just play something else" argument used on this website (and others, I'm sure, but Im talking about Era), because...if you like/love the game, why wouldn't you want others to experience it?
Just now seeing this thread, but as another disabled poster, I appreciate it. I can say too many posters are more than comfortable posting from their ivory towers about how the game (as in whatever game in question) doesn't need to have easier difficulties as a function of accessibility or general accessibility options - it's just the devs vision and it's not for you and it's "OK."
It's not OK that the discussion goes like that every time. It's othering and selfish and lacking in empathy, and it's why I just don't look at threads like that anymore.
It's not OK that the discussion goes like that every time. It's othering and selfish and lacking in empathy, and it's why I just don't look at threads like that anymore.
What really gets me is that the "play something else" excuse might get used elsewhere when complaining about sexism, racism, homophobia or the lack of representation, but is severely frowned upon here on ResetEra. And rightly so ofcourse. So I'm not sure why the whole "just play something else" and "but, but mah developer's vision" is acceptable when it comes to defending ableism.
I think we just got a bit of a fight ahead of us still.
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I don't get it either, I get headaches from games that require it heavily for motions (Splatoon 2 until you can disable gyro).
Stupid as heck that the Shield port of Galaxy mapped the cursor to the right stick, but Nintendo can't manage to do it for the Switch release.