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We need to talk about how toxic discussing the Epic Games Store is when it comes to accusations and insults (Read OP and Threadmarks Before Posting)

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,376
Tim Sweeney is toxic
People who constantly ask "What's wrong with EGS, it's just another launcher" are toxic
People who harass devs are toxic
Devs who snidely attack gamers are toxic

It's a big clusterfuck stew that won't get better any time soon.
 

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,938
I think it was around the same time - that original WatchDogs footage was in 2012 as well. But 100% agree - it reached a fever pitch with Witcher 3 and then fell into the absurd territory with Spider-Man last year. This is why developers don't show gameplay at E3 anymore.
Knowing some developers personally, I can assure you this is 100% true. And they would love to show stuff before becuase they are excited, but they know how bad communication is on the internet to think better.
I wonder how much time did it take for the Ooblots dev to write thatblog about the EGS . Reading it I know it wasnt easy, and I know they decided to go with a little humour to soften the blow, and that only made it worst for some people, that sinceresly are crazy, and they need to lower their blood preassure a little.
 
Dec 5, 2018
1,640
Gaming in general tends to be very tribal. Which is unfortunate.

Tim Sweeney is a cunt though.

I think we can all agree on that.
 

zoltek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
673
How does the wariness of Tencents involvement (a 49% share in Epic) is just based on hate?

We are talking about Tencent, who literally helped creating the social credit system in China, is giving data from WeChat, QQ and Weibo to the chinese government and is involved into the uyghur situation in West China.
What are you doing dude? Show some awareness about the topic you are in and the theme of the thread. The man is getting death threats and you resonding with... but Tencent... 49%... Chinese proganda.

With that said, I understand what are you trying to say and my response is this. It's not the content, it's the delivery. We should all be able to have a civilized conversation without folks turning nasty and personal.

Bronson, thank you for this post. I 100% agree and am sad about what has happened to you over a stupid videogame store.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Before people ask, besides the personal stuff that happened to me, most of those instances happened multiple times. This isn't a call out thread or a 'you, you in particular are bad' thread. Far from it.

And to step out in front of this just in case it comes up -

When I was a moderator, the amount of things I handled when it came to EGS threads was probably single digits. I mostly advised on things and was community mod for things like NFL, Wrassle, and BST. It was very rare for me to handle gaming-side things, and I usually would just step in and post lock posts for threads that someone else had locked.

This isn't a moderation problem, I think. I think it's a community/Internet problem that we all have to work on, myself included.
 

Damn Silly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,652
Yeah, even the few EGS threads I've glanced at -- for games I'm interested in, because the EGS news tends to come at the same time as other news -- they're definitely more immediately vitriolic than almost any other thread. And I'm guessing that the ones that similarly get marked with [SEE STAFF POST] are not much better.

None of the stuff listed should be happening, but in particular, that personal level stuff is absolutely ridiculous for discussion about a storefront. Sorry you had to go through all that shit, Bronson.
 

Tommcatt

Member
Apr 26, 2019
404
Certainly seems like there's some generalisation going on here.

Was this post I made one that resulted in "Trump" comparisons being listed in the OP?

Feels to me like some people just don't want any kind of consumer pushback, they want people to be silent obedient blind followers, not expressing any kind of negative sentiment towards Epic and the harm that they are doing to the wider PC gaming market.

This antagonism that Epic have instigated is pointless and entirely avoidable, but Epic seem to care little about doing right by consumers, opting to just buy their way into market share, rather than solving any problems for consumers. It's such a shame that they have gone down this route, because what they are doing is turning developers and players against each other in the hope of furthering their own business plan.
Or maybe people just think people can turn it down a notch, sorta like the OP said?
 

Komo

Member
Jan 3, 2019
3,691
Let’s have a chat? No, what we should do is stop chatting with trolls and bait posts and use the ignore function more liberally.
But what about when lets say
I propose:

The Thunderdome


A subforum where there are no rules. If a topic on gaming-side is just untenable (say, console wars threads, whether Kojima is pretentious or not, EGS, is Breath of the Wild actually good) it gets banned and threads pertaining to that topic must be created in the thunderdome.


Also I will judge each thread personally and the loser of each argument gets banned
I support something like this, but some rules not none.
 

olag

Member
Oct 28, 2017
703
Agreed for the most part I think the mods have handled this issue to the best of their ability but its clear that this topic is gonna bring out the worst in people. Its kinda good because it means that there are people who are passionate about the topic but with all things this needs to be controlled on a personal level.

My recommendation is that the mod team need to put guidance for all future egs threads so that its just easier to just sticky their option in the OP and to ban the outliers.
Haha, that’s my main takeaway every time I would glance over once of those threads. Such genuine anger, you can’t help but think “surely there are better ways to spend you time? Surely this doesn’t matter this much” I can only hope these people are mustering the same passion for topics in life that actually matter
I speak for myself, but I never got the hate. I can understand no liking how something turned out but at the end of the day it's a store selling recrational goods. Nothing on there is needed, and damn sure nothing on there is worth raising your blood pressure over and going insane
I think thats when we have to start to use empathy and start listening to why rational people arent supporting/ are actively against the store.

Sure it might not affect you guys directly and if you dont care then thats fine but this does affect other people, sometimes tangentially while others directly, and whats not appreciated is the snark associated with not even trying to understand.
This isn't orphans on the street , this isn't world hunger but it is a hobby that millions if not billions of people indulge in and sometimes even work in and as such, there are gonna be a lot of people with a passion for the topic.
 

Vivian-Pogo

Member
Jan 9, 2018
1,223
I hadn't participated in an EGS thread until the Ooblets one, and that experience has made me not want to enter another one.

It's a display of some of the absolute worst that Era has to offer.
 

Ant_17

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,570
Greece
Nothing you can do.
People will hate the thing that is a threat to their long running thing. I might give up gaming completely if Playstation stopped exiting and insult the other companies.
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,457
Knowing some developers personally, I can assure you this is 100% true. And they would love to show stuff before becuase they are excited, but they know how bad communication is on the internet to think better.
I wonder how much time did it take for the Ooblots dev to write thatblog about the EGS . Reading it I know it wasnt easy, and I know they decided to go with a little humour to soften the blow, and that only made it worst for some people, that sinceresly are crazy, and they need to lower their blood preassure a little.
Not to relitigate what's already been said in its own topic, but you're leaving out a lot of context regarding the Ooblets devs' announcement and subsequent behavior on their Discord, namely labeling everyone who wasn't happy with their decision and/or potential customers trying to quell their ensuing meltdown entitled manchildren, pirates and the kind of people they didn't want business from in the first place.
 

chrominance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,035
At this point I would honestly be fine with banning all discussion of EGS on this forum. The Ooblets thread has made me wonder whether I even want to be here anymore.
 

Ceannaire

Member
Dec 12, 2017
81
Really think the "EPIC exclusive list" Megathread would help, even if it just tidied the landing page a bit.
Think a lot of the toxicity comes from people's mindsets on arguments in general (if they aren't right, they're wrong and that means there somehow a worse person for it) just makes people go to the sheer extremes on both sides, even if thats means making attacking the opposite side.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,399
I appreciate the sentiment but that's like asking gamers to be less toxic in general, and I just don't see that happening.
 

Poison Jam

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,897
There's a disturbing amount of aggressive hostility surrounding a digital storefront. Todays internet culture is sadly very black or white. Use it, or don't. But just, don't be dicks about it.

I'm very sorry to hear you've recieved threats. Nobody should have to deal with that over such a trifling matter.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,072
He was one of the worse posters at NeoGAF and still question why would anyone make him a mod.
>member since only may 2019, after Bronson was no longer a mod
>sub 400 posts
>no avatar
>talking about time on NeoGAF from years ago

If you're going to make stupid derail posts like this at least have the balls to post on your main account.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,376
This isn't a moderation problem, I think. I think it's a community/Internet problem that we all have to work on, myself included.
I honestly think putting a staff post in those threads and calling it a day is not working. The thread continues to be complete shit a couple of pages after it.

The problem can be found all around Internet, and everything causing outrage, but Resetera itself can do it better I think.
 

Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,212
Probably just ignorance but I don't really understand why I should hate EGS anymore than I am supposed to hate Walmart or other places trying to get ahead at the cost of the competition. It's business, it's not always clean. I'm not going to pretend it is. And I have no problems buying an exclusive game on any platform so EGS is no different. And actually all the games I "own" on EGS were sold for $0, so if anything they actually have a bit of good will from me.
 

Chairmanchuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,550
China
Before people ask, besides the personal stuff that happened to me, most of those instances happened multiple times. This isn't a call out thread or a 'you, you in particular are bad' thread. Far from it.
I feel for you. My post in here at the beginning might not have been the best post and I hereby apologize.

I wonder what can be done about the whole situation though?
It is not just EGS and whatever. You have the same toxic behaviour in console war threads. You had that before in Pokemon threads.

What do you think can actually be done?
 

Raccoon

Member
May 31, 2019
1,221
I swore I would never use the ignore function because I didn't want to create an echo chamber, but I might have to change that policy
obviously not going to name any names but there’s a prolific poster in a community on here that makes me roll my eyes every time he posts and sometimes genuinely rubs me the wrong way. I’ve caught a warning and ban on an old account for antagonizing members (not the one I’m talking about), so before I picked a fight I would lose I decided to use the ignore function for the first and presumably only time. well, a bunch if threads for our community disappeared, and I had to undue it immediately.

In that moment I learned to just chill out and not engage, exercising restraint. Obviously that won’t work in the face of actual threats but I think choosing not to engage sometimess could do a lot of people good on the forum.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Where the fuck are you putting yourself out there that you're getting death threats over a games launcher?

Jesus, why do people have to be so fucking extra.
 

steviejd1

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,378
This isn't a moderation problem, I think. I think it's a community/Internet problem that we all have to work on, myself included.
I would say it's both. Of course it's a community/internet problem but that isn't going to change in any meaningful way (gamers are going to continue being toxic) without extensive moderation and that hasn't been good enough (not having enough mods/not paying them I mean, not that they aren't trying their best) on a whole range of subjects, not just EGS.
 

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,447
100% agreed with the OP. The insults and the name calling and the death threats are uncalled for.

I just ignore EGS threads now because they always just devolve into people angrily shouting at each other

There are valid reasons to dislike EGS and there are also reasons why some people don't mind it. The vitriol is absolutely unnecessary and unacceptable.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,231
Unfortunately it’s either you’re with or against them.

I don’t even use EGS or Steam much but it’s crazy how people react on either sides.
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,574
Alberta
Not to relitigate what's already been said in its own topic, but you're leaving out a lot of context regarding the Ooblets devs' announcement and subsequent behavior on their Discord, namely labeling everyone who wasn't happy with their decision and/or potential customers trying to quell their ensuing meltdown entitled manchildren, pirates and the kind of people they didn't want business from in the first place.
Their behaviour after they were attacked by hundreds, maybe thousands of the exact kind of things we're talking about here might not have been the smartest...but it doesn't retroactively make that abuse ok. I mean look at the stuff posted here in public, then imagine what they got via email thanks to the boost of courage anonymity gives.
 

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
2,216
Would having an EGS Pro/Con OT make sense? Where all the pros / cons are listed in the OP fairly, so we don't have to constantly reargue and reiterate the same points of contention.

It probably wouldn't be able to make everyone happy, especially if you're deep in the conspiracy hole, but if it's presented with well argued and sourced details, it could serve as a definitive source for future discussion on here.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,072
This isn't a moderation problem, I think. I think it's a community/Internet problem that we all have to work on, myself included.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. This toxicity could have been curtailed long ago if a certain group that wanted to be identified as a Steam group would have been put in their place. Now it seems like the the staff just drops the [SEE STAFF POST] message in the thread and then ignores said thread as much as possible. I understand that the staff is busy and there's lots of other things to keep an eye over, but this has been a problem for quite a while now and it seemingly hasn't been addressed.

Edit- this post is a little hyperbolic and i apologize for that, but I still stand by my claim here that there's a subsection of era that is definitely a huge part of the problem.
 
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City 17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
428
I've seen minor stuff like "why shit on steam" receiving infractions, so I'd assume the severe examples being mentioned in OP, like actual harrasment to have received instant bans in here, unless you mean other social media like Twitter and whatnot, which are simply out of control.
 

Transistor

Void() Crash() Purge()
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
11,515
Cloudbank
Which means ban Sweeney's tweets then?
That's the wrong direction, though. Like it or not, Sweeney is part of the game development community, so discussion about him and his content should be able to be discussed on this forum.

The members who are actively attacking other members are the core issue, at least in this small community.

unless you mean other social media like Twitter and whatnot, which are simply out of control.
One of the main reasons I avoid Twitter like the plague.
 

Wintermute

Member
Oct 27, 2017
667
Would having an EGS Pro/Con OT make sense? Where all the pros / cons are listed in the OP fairly, so we don't have to constantly reargue and reiterate the same points of contention.
Yeah I want this too. We don't need a new thread every time a Dev says something on Twitter that upsets people. Just stick it in an OT thread.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,247
USA USA USA
This isn't a moderation problem, I think. I think it's a community/Internet problem that we all have to work on, myself included.
I'm not saying this community is perfect, or even great, or that it's not capable of some of these terrible things you've listed (specifically the harrassment) but there are other websites out there that specifically target this one to stir shit and harrass as I'm sure you well know.

You don't know if these were just individual assholes and attacks or if you were targeted because you were a mod at a site they hate (for some weirdo reason) right?

I'm not trying to say the epic stuff doesn't get toxic or that I don't believe you, it does and I do. I just want to know if it's from here and you have an idea of who it is they need to be weeded out. If it's from out there at least we know more about it.

Or maybe you don't want to talk about it that's fine too.