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OP
OP

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Yeah, guys, loathe as I am to plant myself in the middle of the fence like I'm a wooden stake, this thread isn't about that.

I fucked up, we fucked up. It's gone too far.

We gotta try to bring the heat level down.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
I completely agree with Bronson on this. Moderation on resetera has overall been very solid but the EGS threads are ridiculous and I've stopped even bothering to read them. I agree with poster above, we need to apply the port begging rules to complaining about egs exclusives and the really vitriolic posters need to start getting bans.
 

Raysoul

Fat4All Ruined My Rug
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,016
Will nintendo fans be forced to actually follow this rule, cause then im down. Or will this be one of those rules that only apply to the pc community here?

Portbegging rule actually exists for consoles, but I'm observing it is quite lax for PC portbegging. If you see a user portbegging a game, you can report it.
 

JustinH

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,398
Agreed 100%. I avoid EGS threads now because some Era users are terrible.
Same here. I used to read through some like, it feels like a long time ago... but now if I see something that's going to be EGS related I just stay away from that thread.

Sorry that shit has been happening to you OP. I didn't know it was getting so bad in those threads I guess because I don't go into them anymore. Seeing that stuff of that caliber happens here really makes me question if I want to stay here, to be honest.
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
"People" being the one guy who was banned for it as well.

Also just to use the quote above as an example, try to avoid generalising posts without calling the people out the people in question.

Nah man, I got clowned on for pointing out that maybe those sorts of comparisons are a bad idea by multiple people on this forum with "We can no longer compare things" and continued justification.
 

DaciaJC

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,685
Except that already exists (as a summary).

It gets linked to, eventually, in every single EGS thread. People have gone to painstaking lengths to describe the negatives of the EGS, and what few positives it has tends to be developer focused, not consumer focused, so it doesn't get much traction.

The same people who come in and yell "it's just a launcher guys why are you so mad" just ignore it and continue to come into every thread asking the same question, so it just ends up the same way.

People don't actually want to learn. And this thread is already being used as a rallying point for these very people to justify their belief that there is no reason to dislike the EGS by blanket labeling everyone who is anti-EGS as toxic.

It's the constant conflation of people who are outright assholes (the ones described in the OP) versus the people who are attempting to do the very thing you're asking for.

As far as some people here are concerned, those people are one and the same and being anti-EGS is by default being toxic.

Well put.
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
As someone who prefers Steam and doesn't use the Epic Games Store, I just can't be that bothered to care. Yeah it sucks when a game you're interested in doesn't appear on the platform/store of your choice and you have the right to voice your displeasure over it, but you can complain about things while still being respectful.

At the end of the day there are still plenty of games to play on your platform/store of your choice. There's no need for toxic meltdowns
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,938
I don't know why people get so needlessly heated about this stuff. There are problems with both platforms and there are valid ways to express those concerns and express one's preference or interest for one platform or the other without descending into the toxic vitriol that has become so common. It's amazing how the console wars aspect of games fandom had seemed to die down until this came up
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
It feels like there will be many accounts left on this battlefield. Godspeed to all who lose their souls here.

On topic though, there is really no reason to be so upset about this store. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to talk shit to others because a new store exists that you wish didn't for your reasons.
There isnt any reason to be upset by it, but there are legitimate reasons why people do not support its practices and parent company. That these individuals are refereed to as childish and Gamer man babies for not supporting the store on forums and by devs is where I kinda get peeved off.
 

Deleted member 15227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,819
On a personal level, I have had people:
Threaten to kill me (a credible enough threat that I called the police)
Try to find my house

What in the fuck is wrong with people? Holy shit.

Hope you're okay Op. And I agree with you 100%.

When Era first formed, I thought we'd all be better but some things just never change.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,721
Speaking as an outsider to this whole debate (my PC is broken so I don't play on it anymore), it kinda seems like both groups view the other group as toxic - if one is anti-EGS they often view people who are pro-EGS as shills or concern trolls who just don't want to understand why EGS is so bad, and if one is pro-EGS then everyone who's upset about the exclusivity deals comes off looking negatively. The groups have become so crystallized in their resolve that the other side instantly becomes the enemy rather than simply a group with a different opinion.

At the end of the day, flame wars and death threats over a goddamn digital storefront are absolutely absurd and we should all be better than this. It's like stabbing someone in the stomach because they decided to go to Taco Bell instead of Chipotle.
 

Deleted member 8791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,383
Will nintendo fans be forced to actually follow this rule, cause then im down. Or will this be one of those rules that only apply to the pc community here?
As a Switch only gamer who tries really hard to avoid any form of port begging, the one time I slipped up I got an immediate warning. Port begging is not allowed and moderated properly.
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
I can only agree. There's merit to some of the outrage but so many people take it way, way too far.
 

City 17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
913
Agreed, it's the 2019 equivalent of the old fanboy console wars in the 360/PS3 era and it needs to end.
On paper it might be, but in reality there aren't many actual EGS users if the (lack of) sale numbers are anything to go by, but when it comes to discussing the topic, somehow the ratio changes dramatically.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,086
Halifax, NS
Two cents, ERA should implement a "No Platform begging" rule similar to "No port begging" rules. This would mitigate some snarky responses like "No steam no Buy"

Except that already sort of exists. Because these games are (likely?) eventually coming to Steam (because these are timed exclusivity deals) people routinely express the opinion that they rather wait, anyone who goes over the line (lol the real release is in a year, etc.) gets banned.

This is different to something like, demanding a specific console exclusive be ported to your console of choice (or ported to PC), where there may not have been that initial expectation.

People already know these EGS exclusives are getting Steam releases someday.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,880
The people that get very toxic don't care about being told to chill out. They are toxic, it's their nature. Put em on ignore, block em, ban em. I am always very civil when discussing my disdain for EGS and the people that consistently patronize and insult those that don't like the storefront.
 

Bigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,635
You're basically saying 'people on a message board and the internet in general should be nice to each other when their ideologies collide.' Which I agree with, but it's not applicable to just EGS threads. Hell, go in any Democratic Debate thread and check out what goes on there. Man, I even go so far as to flirt with the idea that people should have to use their real names on the internet to curb toxic behavior. It'll never happen and it's problematic when it comes to stuff like posting about substance abuse, depression, and other personal issues, but I can dream.

However, I have no problem calling Tim Sweeny a 'Jeffrey Dahmer looking motherfucker' at all. Fuck Epic.
Saying "Other people are always going to be toxic so I'm going to be toxic too" is some self defeatist nonsense. You cant control what other people do but you decide your own actions. Do better.
 

M.A.V.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
62
From my point of view, it seems like a big conspiracy theories, but at the time its a little too good to be true what Epic is offering. Even if fortnite is making that much money, it feels like epic will do something shitty someday (or is already doing it right now). Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony all did that at some point. I know its console makers and are way bigger than epic, but companies are companies. They want profit and they will get it if they play their cards right. Even GOG isn't clean and is seen by some like the savior against DRM.

Back on topic: I respect what you've done OP. Those type of behavior should be called out. It's not something that should be tolerated and I'm sorry you had death threats. It's really unfortunate.
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,411
I rarely visit any thread EGS related and I personally think that the disclaimer needed in all of those posts is embarrassing. We collectively should and need to be better than that when we talk about things that not everyone will agree with. Examples in the OP are gross.
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Yeah, guys, loathe as I am to plant myself in the middle of the fence like I'm a wooden stake, this thread isn't about that.

I fucked up, we fucked up. It's gone too far.

We gotta try to bring the heat level down.
I'm gonna be honest with you: your appeal is going to fall onto deaf ears. This is a console war, and console war tactics will be used.

And then everyone remembers the next generation of consoles are due out next year, which means that there's a decent chance that there's going to be two console wars simultaneously. And then there's the US presidential elections at about the same time.

The ResetEra moderation team will not be prepared.
 

olag

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,106
Portbegging rule actually exists for consoles, but I'm observing it is quite lax for PC portbegging. If you see a user portbegging a game, you can report it.
Not sure its as cut and dry as that. In the event of games which were available to preorder on steam and where subsequently removed its kinda valid to express disappointment and disapproval. Thats when people start to actually discuss why this happened and whether or not its actually good for the industry.

Outside this however, sure port begging shouldn't be condoned.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,527
Thanks for the thread, I really hope the conversation doesn't just become another endless 'egs fine/egs bad' spitball contest.

The EGS Discussion Problem has always felt like a symptom of a larger problem on the internet and particularly here on era.

Dismissive, childish shitposting isn't discouraged hard enough here.

Folks are not modifying their behavior from the bad old days of "Neat.jpg" or "fuck this, fuck that, fuck everything" drive-bys, and there isn't a visibly enforced moderation policy to cull that behavior early enough in a thread to make a difference. Everything is extremely reactive and things are allowed to spiral 10 times past that point and suddenly all this bad stuff is The New Normal. [SEE STAFF POST] is a memetic joke, and often reads like a white flag surrending the convo to the same, low-simmering hellhole of circular, low-effort recrimination while the thread drifts further and further from its intended topic. The chaos of metacommentary has to get severed at the head: The shitposting. So many times an EGS thread goes off the rails because a shitpost gets chain-quoted and we're off to the races, the thread goes down a predictable path as people polish their dusty talking points and paste them in obediently, and nothing changes. Nothing gets better. People don't come to some kind of understanding until the thread is locked or another conversation becomes the next battleground.

Everyone here is a person at a phone or at a computer and we all feel things as intensely as any other human being put on this planet. Everyone who likes the EGS catalog, everyone who works on a game that gets put on EGS, as well as everyone who still invests a ton of goodwill in Steam is capable of thinking beyond the stuff you spend your money on and consider, even if only for a moment, that there is no Internet, it's just other people, before resorting to the hostile, toxic shitposting that is anathema to any kind of actual discussion online. Anybody can do this, but it has not felt like even the plurality of people are even trying to do this anymore. The noise is pushing everything else out. It's madness and we know that we can do better but aren't. The only reason I can think of why is we aren't looking at each other anymore. And if that's the case I wonder why any of us are even trying to be a community.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,359
Thank You BronsonLee

Outside if the hostility and personal attacks/threats, the thing that keeps me away from EGS threads are all the shitty, dissenting opinion killing tactics you see in every single one of these circle jerkey 'Gamer Rise Up Movements' where valid points are mocked and dismissed, often preemptively, without ever truly being refuted. It is just a launcher, this is how the free market works and there are actual atrocities in the world that aren't met with so much outrage. Most of the valid criticism that should be sent Epic's way gets drowned out in this whirlwind of extreme overzealous hate & hyperbole.
 

BeaconofTruth

Member
Dec 30, 2017
3,426
This forum is wildly delusional of how toxic it can get in the name of being "righteous". It's an EGS thing, or a gaming (have y'all read some OT threads?), or even just an era thing.

It's internet discourse at large. The toxicity is there in every field of conversation sports, people, politics, movies, games. People are way too condemning, actually incapable of being critical without burying someone/thing, and assume anyone disagreeing with them must be the most asshole person to ever be an asshole.
 

Kraken3dfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,945
Denver, CO
I've just kind of zoned out of the situation. I won't spend money on EGS, but I do play a copy of World War Z I got free with my Ryzen 2600x through it. No intention to give them money at this point, regardless of what people gloss over, there's a good amount of stink on Epic right now and for good reason.

No negativity from me for people who choose to spend money on EGS, they are welcome to spend when/where/how they want, but EGS needs to prove better intentions for consumer concerns and improve the QoL situation on their client before I'm willing to toss my wallet in the ring.
 

Spyware

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,455
Sweden
BronsonLee Really sad to read what you have been going through. It's absolutely awful.

There isnt any reason to be upset by it, but there are legitimate reasons why people do not support its practices and parent company. That these individuals are refereed to as childish and Gamer man babies for not supporting the store on forums and by devs is where I kinda get peeved off.
These legitimate reasons are always ignored by the ones posting stuff. I don't think I have ever seen a poster that came in with a flippant "omg what's the issue, get over it, it's just another icon" attitude actually say "oh thanks for explaining the issue". As soon as people respond with level-headed and well articulated posts, these people just disappear. And then others take their place without caring that the issue has been explained over and over before they even got there. That kind of posts should be just as moderated as the ones slinging insults and profanity at the devs and Epic and so on.

The toxic stuff from both "camps" shouldn't be tolerated, but I don't see what reasonable users can do other than reporting it. Going up against it just clutters up the threads and heat things up even more. Warnings and bans are the way to show that this isn't tolerated behaviour from anyone.
 
Jun 14, 2019
599
I mean bronson your on numerous accounts when you was even modding attacking pc users n baiting people in these exact threads. That doesn't in anyway excuse some things being thrown your away and im sure at other users who don't even post anymore due to such nature.

Many of us for ages have wanted changes done to communities n cut out certain behaviour and it hasn't been done and we see these threads appear over and over again and normally become locked and loads of users get banned.

There needs to be a thread where people can place issues at hand and be able to discuss issues without a ban hammer heading there way for constructively doing so. This doesn't just effect pc type threads its all over in alot of communities
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,689
I am always very civil when discussing my disdain for EGS and the people that consistently patronize and insult those that don't like the storefront.
With all due respect, you posted a while ago in the Rami Ismail thread how those who defend the EGS are idiots. That's not civil, and it's equally as toxic as many other comments about the subject.

I love how whenever someone comes out in defense of EGS they say really stupid shit and make themselves look like uninformed idiots.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,880
With all due respect, you posted a while ago in the Rami Ismail thread how those who defend the EGS are idiots. That's not civil, and it's equally as toxic as many other comments about the subject.

When being patronized as a consumer I can call someone an idiot. Are you lumping me in with those that call people Hitler? This is the problem.
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,257
So every gamer is a "manchild"? You do realize that these kind of generalizations are part of the problem?

If they self-identify as a "Gamer" specifically? Probably TBF.

Also I see the "Trash" comment(s) being brought up in here a bit. Context is Key - For example, the context being that said comments were in reference to the venomous and toxic "Fuck you got mine" comments made by the moderator/co-developer Perplamps, often in response to completely civil comments from their existing Patreon backers who asked if they would be getting EGS keys (Yes, EGS keys, not Steam keys) in line with prior (before the EGS announcement) statements that Patrons who contributed over a certain amount would get Keys.
 

thebishop

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,758
Except that already exists (as a summary).

It gets linked to, eventually, in every single EGS thread. People have gone to painstaking lengths to describe the negatives of the EGS, and what few positives it has tends to be developer focused, not consumer focused, so it doesn't get much traction.

The same people who come in and yell "it's just a launcher guys why are you so mad" just ignore it and continue to come into every thread asking the same question, so it just ends up the same way.

People don't actually want to learn. And this thread is already being used as a rallying point for these very people to justify their belief that there is no reason to dislike the EGS by blanket labeling everyone who is anti-EGS as toxic.

It's the constant conflation of people who are outright assholes (the ones described in the OP) versus the people who are attempting to do the very thing you're asking for.

As far as some people here are concerned, those people are one and the same and being anti-EGS is by default being toxic.

This is very true. And nothing justifies the threats and hyperbolic metaphors (for my part, i've used pay-day lending as an exaggerated comparison which hopefully avoids Godwin's Law). But these threads get heated precisely because of what you describe. People's objections are sensible, usually even the "other side" of the debate has to acknowledge the objections, but then they go right back to the same 1-dimensional accusations and incomprehension that often feels like it must be disingenuous.

When you add a general appearance of corporate influence in the gaming press on this issue, it's easy to see how it gets toxic.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,012
It's fucking awful. The PC community let the snobbery of being above console gamers go to their head. Now that they have to deal with some aspects that impact console gaming(exclusives), they are losing their shit, and acting completely out of control. It's fine if you don't like EGS, you don't need to rampage day after day because of things they are doing. Nor do you need to relentlessly attack developers who work with Epic.

It's particularly frustrating because it's not even contained to the specific EGS threads. Every time an EGS game is brought up thereafter there are people ready to take a big shit in the thread and restart the same arguments that were already had. Unfortunately the issue is even worse on larger social media platforms.

And yes there is an opposing element that is overly patronizing about not caring about the situation, or the storefronts, but those people are generally easier to deal with via moderation. Particularly because they don't have the same level of skin in the game.

Will nintendo fans be forced to actually follow this rule, cause then im down. Or will this be one of those rules that only apply to the pc community here?
Can we cut the persecution complex nonsense? It's ridiculous. These rules already exist for consoles, and if anything the PC community on here had it very lax for many years stretching back into the GAF days when it was acceptable to PC port beg under the guise of "wanting the best version of the game".
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,721
As an outsider who doesn't really participate in any of the discussions, it does seem quite extreme and oftentimes toxic.

One thing I've learned over my many years of being a poster with a lot of unpopular opinions is that anything you say against the flow of conversation in platform/console discussions instantly labels you as a fanboy or THE OTHER.

Case in point: I do not care for Microsoft as a company, and have never cared for them because of things they did as a corporation that I have yet to forgive them for. Despite this, I have on numerous occasions been accused of being an Xbox fanboy or shill by parts of the SonyEra community because I've vocally disagreed with a lot of Playstation's business decisions and choices in the second half of this generation.

There have to be better ways to discuss platforms and consoles and storefronts without immediately resorting to hardline us-or-them factioning, because that shit always leads to people getting heated and then getting personal.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,689
When being patronized as a consumer I can call someone an idiot. Are you lumping me in with those that call people Hitler? This the problem.
lol no, but you sure seem eager to go down that road after that edit you just did :)

Creating more toxicity won't help anything. It will only feed the circle jerk, for both sides. That's what I'm pointing out. And yes, calling people idiots at point blank isn't what I would call "civil".
 

Ryo Hazuki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,500
Seems like a lot of people are discussing this today. There's the Rami thread and now Jason posted this: