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KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,093
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate just came out and it's pretty darn great. A gigantic amount of content in terms of stages, music, single player content and fighters in it. Just look at the size of the character select screen.

Smash_Ult_Character_screen.jpg

However, there is one pretty big problem with the game (Ok, online might be a problem as well, but I don't have an Online Subscription to test it) and that is in the mulitplayer, you don't start with that many characters. You start with this many.

vlcsnap_2018_12_05_19h56m14s700.png

Yes, only 8 of the 74 fighters. I get it, it's the original 8 from the first game, it's a cute reference. But any cuteness about it wears off when you start going through trying to unlock everyone in it. And I can already here people saying "What problem! I see no problem having to unlock all of those fighters! That is the game for me!", Before I list the big issues I have with the unlocking of characters, I'll address the common defences for having to unlock everyone first.

A Roster of 74 characters to start with would be too overwhelming for newcomers!
This is perhaps the most reasonable argument for not having everyone available at the start, having everyone might overwhelm people to begin with. The Smash 64 roster is also fairly easy to pick up and learn as well with a lot of them being fairly simple moveset wise. It's much easier to pick up and understand Mario or Kirby than, for example, Robin with his/her various Magic Move meters or Inkling and her/his Ink Mechanic. The only slightly irregular character is Yoshi of the original 8. That said, there are some characters that are fairly easy to pick up and learn that are not included. Peach for example with her incredible horizontal recovery, Dedede who's the easiest Heavy Weight for a newcomer to pick up, there also some move concepts the original 8 don't have like Physical Counter Moves someone like Marth or Ike have.

There is also a lot of things Smash could do to make things easier for beginners that it doesn't do, like have a proper tutorial mode, you just have the video at the beginning, a command list and a tips section. It's tutorial offerings are lacking compared to similar fighting games on the market like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Guilty Gear, UNIEL, Skullgirls and many more that offer playable tutorial modes that overview all the games mechanics, character specific mechanics and gameplay mechanics, combo trials of varying difficulty, even general fighting game playstyles and systems like rushdown, zoning, spacing, applying pressure until they block and mixing it up with a command grab if that's how your character's playstyle works... it goes on. This is a discussion worthy of it's own thread so I won't go into it fully here, but Smash doesn't exactly make itself the easiest game for newcomers in all, it does some good thing, simplified controller scheme, beginner rooms online to name a few, but it has a long way to go in this front. It's another discussion for another thread though.

This is the one thing I'm most lenient on, but even then, a few more simple to learn characters could be included as starters if they wanted to go this route (and newcomers are likely to be overwhelmed by the large number of stages they see beforehand instead.)

I want to be surprised by who's in the game!
Yeah… that worked in the past Smash Games. Previous smash games would go so far to even change UI menu and the opening video depending on who you have and haven't unlocked in the game. But this game is less subtle about hiding it's characters. Even if you have hidden under a rock not to be spoiled who's in the game. The opening video shows every single fighter in the game, same with the world of light opening cutscene, characters you haven't unlocked will show up in Spirits Mode and Classic mode anyway, Classic has a giant Mural with every character on it. If you go to Tips it shows tips for all the characters unlocked or not. Heck, even the physical game box shows everyone in the game in the inside art. There isn't any character surprises this time around.
But it's fun to unlock all the characters!

This is subjective. I know there's a lot of people out that love the whole "Challenger Approaching" alarm fight to unlock system. I know some people consider they have completed the game when they have unlocked everyone and move on different games when they do. However, this is not the absolute consensus, there are also players that just want to boot up the game and play as there favourites from the go. Some people may want to hit the training room and see what changes their character has. Some people may want to go online and just show the world how good they are from day 1, other may just want to finally play as Ridley, and they will eventually, but they won't be able to right out of the gate. This varies. And there's one specific thing I'll talk about later that makes this the one defence I'm least willing to listen to.

So, the problems.

The Unlock Process is long and tedious.

First, yes, it does not take as long to unlock everyone in this game as it did in Melee, no more 10 hours game time for Mewtwo or 1000 matches for Game and Watch. It's shorter than Brawl's was as well. However, it's significantly longer than 3DS and Wii U's. I took about 6-7 hours having to unlock everyone for my cartridge, and that was using the reset exploit along with it (most people probably don't even know about the reset exploit unless you look it up on a website on fastest ways to unlock everyone in Smash), with only 1 or 2 classic mode runs during the process since I wanted to try it out. Still, on launch day with 3 hours of pure grinding for a launch party, I could only get 31 of the 74 unlocked. And at the launch party (our prefered method of playing was all randoms for those curious) we got 4 characters unlocked during our hour of playing our game (We couldn't do the reset technique so there was the 10 minute cooldowns between characters here).

Even if that number was 1 hour or 30 minutes though. Those numbers are still too high. For many, they want that number to be Zero. Why should people that want to play the way they want to play be denied by all these character unlocks? It's not like the game is lacking in the unlock department, you have Spirits, Music, Mii Customisation and Challenge Board objectives if you want to unlock stuff. All stuff that doesn't affect the core multiplayer gameplay.

It's going to take probably upwards of 12 hours for a regular gamer, probably more… if they even can unlock them that is.

Some people might not be able to unlock all the Characters

As you unlock more and more characters, the difficulty of the challenger matches increase. And some of the later ones have absurd high difficulty levels. In my attempt, I required 7 retries on Challenger matches, 1 on Roy, Robin, Incineroar, Snake and Rob, and 2 matches for Dedede (Your list will likely vary depending on order you encounter them, these were some of the last fighters I got the challenger approaching with to unlock). Now, I consider myself an above average player (I was able to get a 9.9 Classic Intensity Clear on my second run through Classic Mode with Pikachu). For someone that isn't as good at games, or perhaps this is the first console game they ever own? I have doubts they might be able to unlock everyone. I know some people on Resetera here already say they can't do these matches, and we're a pretty hardcore gaming community that play games a lot.

I assume the AI will get gradually easier and easier every time you beat them, too early to tell if that's the case so far but I assume that's the case. But even on the easiest level some people might not be able to unlock that. So they are gatekeepered out of playing the characters they want to play just because they can't beat the unlock match to do so.

And don't say "Get Gid" as a response for those struggling. It shouldn't be that hard to unlock everyone. The tagline for the game is "Everyone is here!" not "Everyone is Here, but you might not be able to unlock all of them if you are bad at fighting games"

Tournament organizing is going to be more frustrating due to unlocking the characters,
You think unlocking all the characters once is frustrating? Try being a Tournament organizer where you will need to unlock all the characters on multiple units. Even when a fully optimized unlock method as planned out it's still probably going to take at least 3 to 4 hours to unlock everyone on one unit (and assuming you are fairly competent enough to beat the challenges on their first try as well for time saving). Melee with it's absurd unlock times at least only required doing it on one memory stick, then you can just copy that save onto the other memory cards you need. Smash Ultimate saves are locked to that one switch, and you'll need a Online Subscription Service if you want to create a backup of that save. And save transfers are one way at present. It's a lot of uneeded hassle for tournament organizers to set up and might actually affect the tournament scene for the game in the long run.

Alright so if you have read through all of that, acknowledged the current problems that people have with the unlock system and still think you have to unlock all the characters because it's more fun to unlock all of them despite that not being what everyone thinks, here's the kicker.

World of Light is a mode dedicated to the people that love unlocking everyone.
If you unlock all the characters through Classic or VS. Matches, you still have to unlock them in your World of Light file. Here's the thing, for me personally at least, it has been much more fun to unlock all the characters in World of Light than it is through unlocking through classic or vs matches or the like. First of, you only start with Kirby, there's actually an in-game reason why you only start with Kirby with the opening cutscene so there's justification for why you are only starting with one character here, now you have a motivation to go and unlock everyone. The overworld map can give a clear visual route on how many matches you need to do before you get to unlock someone, there may even be multiple routes to reach if some of the spirit matches are giving you a hassle, there's even branching paths that make you chose which fighter you want to unlock now and which you will wait for later (Choice in which fighter I want to unlock first? You spoil me World of Light.). In addition, you also will be gathering spirits that can use to help tweak your playstyle, maybe you equip spirits that increases your special attacks, maybe one that heals you over time, maybe even one that starts you with a Death Scythe, you can tweak it to your preference. It also solves that difficulty issue from earlier, outside of the starting Easy, Medium or Hard difficulty select, you can go into the match with one super powered high level spirit and crush through the match, you can hit the "Autopick" button so the game picks a spirit that tries to give a good fair match for a good level of rewards, or you can even create a spirit build that will be at a disadvantage or even enter with No Spirits at all if you wish for a challenge. There's also Skill Spheres that you use to put into a skill tree that lets your modify your gameplay further. It's actually quite fun to unlock the characters in this mode, and there's 3 save files so you can do it multiple times. Oh, and there's 7 additional fighters to unlock as well! The only real downsides are it's single player only so you can't unlock it in a group co-op unless you do a pass the controller system, and that it doesn't have the warning siren I guess? They probably can add that in a patch in the future if need be.

World of Light actually makes it fun to unlock everyone, so the question now is… why wasn't World of Light the dedicated mode for people that love to unlock everyone in their fighting games, and for everyone that prefers, wishes or requires to have all the characters unlocked at that start of the game can just jump into Smash, chose their favourites and go? For those that like the process of Unlocking characters, wouldn't you agree to just keeping it to World of Light. Beginners could be even steered towards the mode as the one to go to learn the ropes of the games as it has, the mode already has a lot of aid systems to help out new players like the spirits and the skill tree, and Kirby is basically the perfect starting character for a newcomer being one of the most beginner friendly characters to start with, and Mario being the second character who is also very beginner friendly as well makes it probably the best mode for a newcomer to jump into when starting the game. The unlock process mainly something for single players to enjoy, and it's repeatable due to the multiple save files as well. Meanwhile multiplayer focused players, tournament organizers or even people that just want to hit the lab and relearn their old mains can just do that without having to jump through all these hoops to unlock everyone to play the game how they want to play the game.

...Woof, that took a lot to right, apologies if there's typos, it's nearly 3am over here now, I blame Smash for sucking up most of my time doing so, half annoyed having to unlock everyone for a gaming event tomorrow, half gleaming with joy really, really enjoying the game with it's graphics, soundtrack, stages and gameplay. Honestly I'm amazed the game didn't even launch with a "Tournament Friendly" mode with everyone unlocked but no progress is saved like gathered spirits, or there isn't some cheat code like entering the Konami Code on the title screen to unlock all characters. I hope they can at least patch that in like how they patched Super Mario Maker to allow everyone access to the Level Editing tools right away instead of having to wait a day for the next tier of level editing tools to unlock.

TL:DR - World of Light should be the only mode with the Unlocking the entire roster aspect, let there at least be a mode or cheatcode that has all fighters available to play as for everyone that needs it.
 
Last edited:

Grexeno

Sorry for your ineptitude
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,781
Yeah, it's really frustrating. Some of these challenger fights are just absurdly savage.
 

DarkSora

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,186
I must be one of the few people on this board ok with this.

I'm not in a rush to unlock every single character. I'm having fun just playing with different modes and unlocking everyone.

I like what Sakurai did this time. Always get excited when I see "Challenger approaching!". :O
 

DrMoguera

Member
Oct 27, 2017
432
I feel like any concession they made in "streamlining" the unlocking process was completely and utterly offset by the fact you have to unlock so many characters. It really is a chore, which is unfortunate. Mega Man and Snake were the characters I wanted to play most and I didn't get them until like 10 hours of playtime in.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
They need to just put in a bigass button in the options menu that just says "Unlock Every Character?"

That way everyone wins. People can still unlock them the hard way if they want, and those who want them at the start get them.
 

Dougieflesh

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,222
Milky Way Ghetto
If you really want to unlock the characters fast just load the game up, do a 1 stock match, and then jump off. You'll get a new character to fight each time. After you fight that character close the app and do it again. It's simple if you want to just skip all this.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,662
I remember quite a bunch of people whining about "mah progression" back when Smash 4 was launched.

There's just no way to win this. Even if you put a big ass button that unlocked everyone, you would still have people complaining about how it's "difficult to control themselves and not press the button".
 

LiquidDom

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,314
Some of the challenges are really rough, by my 30th challenger, I was getting destroyed. I played Roy twice and then it switched to Dedede who took me three times to beat. Roy hasn't even come back into the rotation yet.
 

Bog

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,428
What the fuck, man. You could've unlocked about 8 in the time it took you to tell us... all of that.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
If you really want to unlock the characters fast just load the game up, do a 1 stock match, and then jump off. You'll get a new character to fight each time. After you fight that character close the app and do it again. It's simple if you want to just skip all this.
Doesn't change the fact that the fights are anything from decently challenging to legitimately hard the further you get along.
 

Thewonandonly

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,248
Utah
I'm pure trash as this game so out of the ten character challenges I've unlocked like 5...

I'm playing through the spirits mode tho so I'll have them all unlocked soon enough.
 

Droyd

Member
Mar 1, 2018
584
Having to unlock the characters made the game for me. Wii U was overwhelming and I only played as a handful.

Now as I unlock characters I'm tempted into trying them
 

Tagyhag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,498
They need to just put in a bigass button in the options menu that just says "Unlock Every Character?"

That way everyone wins. People can still unlock them the hard way if they want, and those who want them at the start get them.

Yep, WWE games do this and no one complains about it. Granted those games have bigger shit to complain about but it's still there.

No one loses by having an optional unlock button. Unless you have zero willpower and you can't help yourself, but that's on you, not Nintendo.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,938
Not sure how everyone asking for a tournament setting for smash battles at the launch of Smash 4 didn't get through to Sakurai and team. I really like it but I'd prefer not to be forced to do it
 
OP
OP
KillstealWolf

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,093
What the fuck, man. You could've unlocked about 8 in the time it took you to tell us... all of that.

I've unlocked them all now. No need to worry about having to unlock anyone for multiplayer now.

I could have unlocked a lot of spirits, progressed a lot in World of Light or knocked out a few Classic Mode runs though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
I'm OK with it. You unlock them pretty fast if you just play the game. Why must everything be unlocked at the start? It's rather nice seeing something new to unlock and actually try that character after defeating it. Feels like I earned it.
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,573
Yeah, it's pretty tedious. I hope there's a master unlock code for tournament organizers because doing this shit for multiple copies of the game sounds like a nightmare.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,027
I'm just playing WoL and backing to the menu for a challenge fight every 10 minutes or so. I'm enjoying the unlocking in this Smash more than previous Smashes - I'm glad there's no obscure unlock methods I have to do this time around, I just get to play WoL like I want to do.
 

Strakt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,160
i dont mind it but its pretty much a waste of time for anyone wanting to jump straight into multiplayer to play online or with friends.
 
Oct 27, 2017
773
It's fun. I've lost tons of times (shitty broken joycon with the foam over the sensor issue) but other than losing to Ridley 3 FUCKING TIMES it's been pretty good.
 

bulletbill10

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
393
I am very happy with the unlocking. I don't really like playing online that much, and unlocking things gives me incentive to keep playing. My wife didn't follow pre-release info and she's always surprised by the characters that pop up when we're playing classic, so that's fun. I stopped playing Smash For pretty quick because there wasn't much to unlock. I get that some folks would like a quick way to their favorites, and I think that a tournament mode would be nice for... uh... tournaments, but for casual play I think it's great. I like to experiment with everyone, and being forced into it makes it feel more meaningful and it's still fun.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,535
I like unlocking them. That said there should be some kind of tourney code that unlocks everyone for the current play session for tournaments/parties.
 

Badcoo

Member
May 9, 2018
1,607
I'm in the middle about it. At one point, it was frustrating trying to unlock all these characters so I can play with my friends. On the other hand, it's the series tradition to do this, so can't be too mad about it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,297
I find it kinda tedious honestly. I don't want to play WoL and I shouldn't be forced to have to do other modes to get the character I want.
 

Deleted member 4093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,671
They shouldve just put a $10 unlock all pass in the game or put all characters behind 2 rare exclusive crazy hand master hand amiibos.
 

JusDoIt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,720
South Central Los Angeles
It should be unacceptable. This is my first Smash, and I have it downloaded and ready to go, but I haven't even started playing the game because I know I got hours and hours of chores ahead before I can start really playing the game.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,364
I love unlocking the characters. If they were all unlocked from the start I would've been far less enthusiastic about the game. I find it fun.
 

Xero grimlock

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,946
i get for competitive reasons wanting them all available from the start, but this is what bore me from mario kart on switch. everything cool is unlocked from the start and really diminishes your joy of the game. figure and easy fix would be to have characters locked in certain modes and unlocked all characters for online or something.
 

Master Chuuster

GamingBolt.com
Verified
Dec 14, 2017
2,650
I don't mind it. There's progression even outside of WoL this way. I can definitely see why it's frustrating for some, but I like gradually filling out my roster bit by bit.

That said, maybe they could have given us the Melee roster to begin with instead of the 64 roster. I do agree that 8 is way too little.
 

Hark

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,163
I'm not a fan of it at all, tbh. I invited the same group we had for a Smash 4 launch party over for a Smash Ultimate launch party and it was a huge hurdle.

For Smash 4 we played for about 8 hours non-stop. Ultimate we played 3 hours and decided to reconvene when more characters had been unlocked later down the track. Really disappointing stuff.

I know they want to give people stuff to do, but damn if that didn't hinder our fun. We couldn't even deliberately try and unlock the characters we wanted :/
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,364
I'm actually okay with this, mostly because outside of Mii Outfits and Spirits, there's nothing else to unlock in the game since trophies, stage, and music unlocks are all gone.
 

Furiousone

Member
Oct 29, 2017
554
I have found the process to be just fine, as previously mentioned, there is no right answer here.
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,573
Wanting artificial "progression" in a fighting game is something I can't be down with.
 

EVA UNIT 01

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,735
CA
I will never play WoL.
That said i got everyone unlocked using the quit at (insert character joins the battle) screen trick
 

H2intensity

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
921
i just wait my boys play it for me..they having fun unlocking those characters lol. also yeah i also enjoying unlocking those characters it gives me more motivation to play it.
 

Mr. Pointy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,141
I wouldn't mind it if the AI wasn't so hard. Doing the reset trick makes it less annoying, but it's still way too frustrating because the computer eventually plays like it's at Top 8 EVO.