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We need to talk about Unlocking Characters in Smash Ultimate.

nikos

nikos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,998
New York, NY
I find locking characters in fighting games to be pretty stupid. That being said, I was able to unlock all of the characters in few hours as somebody who is new to Smash. It was actually kind of fun, but that was time I could have spent actually learning the game.
 
Megatron

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
nikos said:
I find locking characters in fighting games to be pretty stupid. That being said, I was able to unlock all of the characters in few hours as somebody who is new to Smash. It was actually kind of fun, but that was time I could have spent actually learning the game.
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I don't think you could possible have unlocked all the characters without learning the game.
 
The Mango Sentinel

The Mango Sentinel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,793
KratosEnergyDrink said:
So maybe the game is just not for you? Some love unlocking characters some don't. Ultimate is a game for people who like progression/unlocking characters in a fighting game.
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The unlocking part is certainly not for me, but I've done it in every other Smash game, so it's whatever. Don't like it and I think it's stupid, but I accept it since I have no choice.

And to make it worse, I don't think you can unlock characters while playing online.
 
leder

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
They should have given you, say, 50 characters off the bat and had the rest be unlocks BUT ALSO have a large amount of the stages be unlocks to compensate. That way everyone is happy. Unlocking everyone was a huge tedious pain in the ass.
 
RebelDeux

RebelDeux

Member
Nov 20, 2017
180
I've been having fun playing Classic with each character and unlocking characters one by one, the final bosses are cool for some and by doing that you get forced to play with new characters that I might not have tried.

I have played around 8hours and have 18, a long way to go still but I'm not in a hurry, if I get tired I might try the tricks.

I'm not interested in WoL but might try it later, the spirits thing is boring and worthless for me, I mean 1,267 spirits wth?
 
Giolon

Giolon

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,076
RebelDeux said:
I've been having fun playing Classic with each character and unlocking characters one by one, the final bosses are cool for some and by doing that you get forced to play with new characters that I might not have tried.

I have played around 8hours and have 18, a long way to go still but I'm not in a hurry, if I get tired I might try the tricks.

I'm not interested in WoL but might try it later, the spirits thing is boring and worthless for me, I mean 1,267 spirits wth?
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WoL isn't really about the spirits per se, it's about the wild variations and creativity in how they structure matches with special rules to invoke the flavor of the character they're trying to represent. It gets pretty wild. There's 1267 different matches to experience!
 
Darknight

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,761
Prior to getting the game, I was completely in the corner of trying to figure out what the quickest way to unlock everything and would have rather have it all unlocked from the beginning. There are plenty of other games where i feel the same way. I don't typically have a lot of time to spend grinding or unlocking things and I was even thinking I'd just let my kid grind and unlock everything for me since he's willing to put a lot of time into games.

Now that I have it, I actually kind of don't mind how it's done. I feel like the pace at which it unlocks is really quick that it doesn't really make it too much of a problem. I've barely played it this weekend, especially today since I was out all day, but I've already have a roster of 30 characters. I can see in a couple more days I'll probably have them all unlocked. It felt like I'd play a couple matches and get a new character, play another couple matches and get a new character. It was constantly throwing new characters at me that it didn't feel like a grind. Maybe what also helps is I wasn't playing in long sessions either so I'd go and pick it up and would immediately get a new character thrown at me. It was so frequent and fast that I didn't bother with the "quick" method at all.

On paper, I'm right there with people complaining about having to unlock everything, but in execution, it seems pretty painless so far. Now the spirits on the other hand, that seems like a chore.
 
Handicapped Duck

Handicapped Duck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
May 20, 2018
13,661
Ponds
I was doing the quick unlock method for the first seven characters, but I felt my time would be better spent plowing through Classic Mode so I've just been doing that. Getting a character per Classic completion. Takes longer mind you, but at least I knock out a character as well for Classic, so I see it as a win-win.

I do agree, if one is having a party or something like EVO, unlocking all 74 characters would be a nightmare. Maybe it's something Sakurai can patch in before EVO. Hopefully that is.
 
Korezo

Korezo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,145
I can't even play characters I want to try like Cloud,bayo,ken. It's becoming frustrating playing the game now. The Adventure mode has driven me insane that I just want the characters I want know, I'm starting to hate playing the game.
 
Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
Why are so many people dismissive of the fact that this is a fucking grind?

This is a fighting game – a FIGHTING game – not a fucking RPG.

Also, it wouldn't be nearly as bad if the game unlocked the character regardless of whether or not you beat them. Unfortunately, the cheese-dick AI kicks in sometimes and obliterates you, which isn't particularly fun when you're looking forward to playing as a specific character and crossing your fingers that the randomized shuffle selects them.

Actually, it's one of the most annoying things I've encountered in a game in recent memory.

Overall the game is utterly fantastic but seriously, who in the hell greenlit this bullshit?

Who thought it was a bright idea to force randomized unlockable characters replete with shitty, cheap AI to add and extra layer of bullshit to the proceedings?

Here's an idea: Why not allow us to use the in-game currency to unlock characters in the store?

And if you dig the unlocking system that's cool but some of us don't want to spend 10-15 hours unlocking characters.
 
balohna

balohna

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,135
I'm enjoying the unlock grind, but it will really suck for anyone that's just trying to have casual fun with the game or is a total beginner. The fights are tough.

I'm sure most of the audience will tough it out, but some people will just want to hop on and play on the lowest difficulty. Requiring a 1-on-1 with a pretty tough CPU to unlock every character will certainly put some people off.

But I'm liking it. I didn't spend much time with Smash for Wii U because there wasn't much motivation to play. I honestly think the 3DS version was the better package, and part of that was the progression of actually unlocking stuff.

Too bad I know every character and the game doesn't give a shit about spoilers. It was pretty magical back in melee, and even Brawl and 3DS to some extent, unlocking some obscure character after like 20 hours of gameplay.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I'm honestly surprised every stage is available from the start. I would think that each character should accompany a stage and when you beat them you get both. But I digress, I totally get people's complaints about the matter. I personally love unlocking characters and enjoy both the process of it and the methods. I also like how they aren't a walk in the park anymore and actually put up a fight to make you feel like you've earned it. I think a good middle ground in the future would be to make the first half of the roster very easy to unlock extremely quickly, or even let you choose who you begin with. That way everyone can get their favorites and their mains and casually get the rest. However, the biggest issue with the unlock system completely falls on the tournament organizers shoulders. Those people have it rough if they're providing multitudes of Switches and need to prep em all. I feel you all on that one.
 
TheYanger

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,133
Sinder said:
What is this trick?
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When you get a character and it says "So and so joins the fight!" hit the home button, close the game, reopen it, fight a 1 stock 1 difficulty cpu, you'll get the next challenger. Repeat.

The unlock happens immediately when you win, but the trigger for restarting the process of getting the next challenger is apparently AFTER you button through that screen. Similarly, quit the app the instant you lose if you do lose.
 
SlickShoes

SlickShoes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,769
As a new player I was enjoying the unlocking at first but now it's frustrating when a cool character randomly shows up, obliterates me then disappears forever.

The difficulty seems all over the place, just when I feel like I am getting the hang of it a new character can come out of nowhere and just hammer me, without me leaning anything or having the chance to replay the fight.
 
Ferrio

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,041
Losing to the character sucked until I found out you can just save scum it by closing the game.
 
LAA

LAA

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,317
OK I stand corrected, unlocking the characters in adventure mode DOES unlock them everywhere.
I presumed because I was getting challenger alerts exiting the game meant I didn't unlock them elsewhere.
 
RogueyOneKenobi

RogueyOneKenobi

Member
Nov 8, 2017
277
I'm pleased with having to unlock all characters & that it takes time.

I enjoy 'earning' the characters &, as I don't play online/multiplayer, unlocking everything is pretty much the goal of the game for me.
 
Darknight

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,761
Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric said:
Why are so many people dismissive of the fact that this is a fucking grind?
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I'm someone who doesn't have time for grind or let alone RPGs these days and I honestly don't find it much of a grind. Every two or three matches, I'm getting a new fighter. Barely putting any time into it and I've unlocked nearly half the characters within the last two days and that wasn't a ton of playing either. I feel like they keep throwing characters at me and the rate is consistent rather than an RPG grind where it takes longer and longer to increase your level.

And if you dig the unlocking system that's cool but some of us don't want to spend 10-15 hours unlocking characters.
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You can unlock them all in just a little over an hour if you really want to though. You don't need to spend 10 to 15 hours doing it.

SlickShoes said:
As a new player I was enjoying the unlocking at first but now it's frustrating when a cool character randomly shows up, obliterates me then disappears forever.
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But they don't? They quickly allow you to rematch them.
 

FancyPants

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
707
Korezo said:
I can't even play characters I want to try like Cloud,bayo,ken. It's becoming frustrating playing the game now. The Adventure mode has driven me insane that I just want the characters I want know, I'm starting to hate playing the game.
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Jesus Hyperbole Christ. Set off like 20 mins and unlock everything then. Just play a 1v1 game, unlock a character, reset the game and repeat. I even think it resets the "try to unlock a new character" timer if you change the language in the game settings back and forth.

SlickShoes said:
As a new player I was enjoying the unlocking at first but now it's frustrating when a cool character randomly shows up, obliterates me then disappears forever.

The difficulty seems all over the place, just when I feel like I am getting the hang of it a new character can come out of nowhere and just hammer me, without me leaning anything or having the chance to replay the fight.
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The game specifically tells you to re-challenge them from the "challenger approaching" menu... They aren't gone forever, not even if you fail there.
 
3bdelilah

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
They should've done something like, 'Welcome, new player! Choose your option:

o Classic style: Progress through the ranks and unlock characters as you go
o Fuck that shit, just start with everyone unlocked and have a blast
 
feyder

feyder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,156
leder said:
They should have given you, say, 50 characters off the bat and had the rest be unlocks BUT ALSO have a large amount of the stages be unlocks to compensate. That way everyone is happy. Unlocking everyone was a huge tedious pain in the ass.
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I was thinking this too. Why does it have to be either you have all the characters from the get go, or you only start with 8? They should have started you off with a good chunk of characters already available. I'm okay with unlocks but the amount is ridiculous especially considering they heavily marketed all the new characters. "Wow look at these fun new characters!!!!!!!!.......now spend hours/days unlocking them."

Plus I found it weird that instead all stages were available from the get go. THAT feels very overwhelming.
 
Apathy

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
3bdelilah said:
They should've done something like, 'Welcome, new player! Choose your option:

o Classic style: Progress through the ranks and unlock characters as you go
o Fuck that shit, just start with everyone unlocked and have a blast
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Yup, this is the real answer. Give players the choice of what they want. Veterans shouldn't have to go through unlocking every character of they don't want to
 
Capra

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,585
Star Falcon said:
Same here. It's really rewarding when a new challenger pops up and you manage to beat them. I've missed this in video games... too many fighting games have zero elements of progression.
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Progression in other fighting games is getting better at the game and learning how to play as and against different characters.
 
Nikus

Nikus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,357
Just freaking google the ways to unlock them faster if you don't like it, it can be done pretty quick.
 
Ciao

Ciao

Member
Jun 14, 2018
4,829
Unlocking more than 60 characters one at a time is the most satisfying thing I've ever seen in a fighting game outside of actual gameplay. I'm not even sure I'll play more than a couple of matches per week when I'm done unlocking everyone.
 
Philly Cheesesteak

Philly Cheesesteak

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,297
Nikus said:
Just freaking google the ways to unlock them faster if you don't like it, it can be done pretty quick.
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That's not the point. Artificially extending the gameplay by not only having 62 characters that need to be unlocked, but have a 10 minute cooldown period on top of that in a party/fighting game is ridiculous. Saying "well you can just google how to unlock them faster" doesn't stop the fact that you still have to unlock them to use them especially in a game that prides itself on accessibility to players. With that being said, 52 down, only 18 more to go. The grind is real.
 
OP
OP
KillstealWolf

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,043
Apathy said:
Yup, this is the real answer. Give players the choice of what they want. Veterans shouldn't have to go through unlocking every character of they don't want to
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Amazingly the response to this is "Veterans would complain because they would be too tempted to use the all unlocked mode" and feels like it "Cheapens" the game for them.

Ignore the fact some people probably won't be good enough to unlock them all. That's including how easy World of Light players. We need to remember that this time people jumping in to this Smash might be coming from the mobile titles like Pokemon Go, Fire Emblem Heroes and Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp and have never touched a fighting game before (or even a controller before). Even easy mode World of Light with a super powerful spirit might be too much if they don't know how to recover with a B+Up.

We are talking about this level of skill for some of the players. Or lower.:

 
RionaaM

RionaaM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,852
Ferrio said:
Losing to the character sucked until I found out you can just save scum it by closing the game.
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Yep, just quit the game before it goes back to the main menu. I discovered this trick after losing against several fighters, and it worked. Unfortunately I still have to wait for the door to appear in order to rematch those characters, but now I can avoid this with the rest.
 
Majukun

Majukun

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,542
the only "stupid" part it's the 10 minute cooldown timer before you could unlock another character that forces you to reset..is that was not the case, i don't mind unlocking the characters little by little.

it would also be great if the game somehow manages to let you know beforehand what you have to do to unlock a given character so that you don't have to wait to finally get the one you wanna main.
 

Deleted member 33533

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
Went to a friend's house to play but none of my characters or even the new ones were unlocked. Kind of took the fun out of it. It was always the most disappointing thbig back when someone would bring Melee to play and they didn't have your character.

This is that times 100. Like, guess I'll come back later and hope he unlocks them all.

People are so defensive about people criticizing the game.

FancyPants said:
Jesus Hyperbole Christ. Set off like 20 mins and unlock everything then. Just play a 1v1 game, unlock a character, reset the game and repeat. I even think it resets the "try to unlock a new character" timer if you change the language in the game settings back and forth.
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When you have to suggest an exploit to skip to the enjoyable part of the game that's a problem with the game design. People are in here like "just turn off the game 60+ times after every match" like that should be how a game should be played.

Is it a difficult concept that people don't enjoy playing fighting games as characters they don't like to play as?

Sakurai went overboard with the unlock thing. He should've had 40-50 from the start and have you unlock the rest and also stages as you went.
 
RionaaM

RionaaM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,852
3bdelilah said:
They should've done something like, 'Welcome, new player! Choose your option:

o Classic style: Progress through the ranks and unlock characters as you go
o Fuck that shit, just start with everyone unlocked and have a blast
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Haha I'm imagining the multiplayer modes in Smash 6:

- For Fun
- For Glory
- For Fuck's Sake, Just Unlock Everyone Already
 
All Possible Ways

All Possible Ways

Member
Oct 27, 2017
487
When a new Smash comes out, I usually play Classic mode with all characters to get a feel for the changes and to learn the basics of the new ones, in the process most characters unlock (in Ultimate, all of them) so I don't mind.

Still, I would be fine with having everyone unlocked from the start, at least as an option for tourneys and people who don't enjoy the process.
 
K' Dash

K' Dash

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
4,156
Playing free for all with my friends we got a new character every other fight, it was really quick.
 
2shd

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,556
Ciao said:
Unlocking more than 60 characters one at a time is the most satisfying thing I've ever seen in a fighting game outside of actual gameplay. I'm not even sure I'll play more than a couple of matches per week when I'm done unlocking everyone.
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I'm taking this as 100% serious, so it really just sounds to me like the vast majority of Smash buyers don't play it for the mechanics or game itself and treat it like a Pokemon collection game.

I honestly think this game sells on the crossover factor alone and if it wasn't a who's who of Nintendo characters, it simply wouldn't sell because the general audience doesn't really like playing fighting games and would drop this game like a rock after a couple days.

Given all the posts I've seen with this sentiment I can't blame Nintendo for going this route wirh unlocks. They just needed an optional multi-player mode unlock.
 
Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
I don't mind unlocking characters but there's a middle ground and a much better way to handle it.

As much as I'm enjoying the game, it can be a serious chore and again, the AI ranges from pushover to fucking cheese-dick so the fun of getting pummeled most assuredly varies from person to person.

They could of satisfied both sides by giving people a choice and that is what they should have done because unlocking 60 plus characters clearly isn't fun for all.
 
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