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Nov 17, 2017
12,864
Sure, Smash has a competitive audience, and Nintendo knows that. But the competitive audience isn't the only audience, and it's never been Sakurai's number one concern even with his shifts in design approach. That the game doesn't make concessions to make the entire roster available for a tournament on the day of release was never of concern to him or to the dev team (or else they would have made such options available).

I'd also argue that the comparison to a game like Nier is flawed, as well. The first Nier has notoriously awful sidequests. They are absolutely not the reason any sane person would play the game and even the most diehard fans will tell you this. But there's a difference between a game being loaded with bullshit sidequests seemingly designed to frustrate the player with little meaningful reward, and like, thinking it's Bad Game Design to not have your whole fighting roster available from the get-go. But that's part of the tug-of-war between making a game that can be played in a tournament setting, and that has features geared toward that, but is optimally designed for playing at home with friends, and with plenty of content meant to be played by oneself or a single partner.

Smash has done things to appeal to competitive audience before. The Final Destination and Battlefield forms for example being a big one. Just because they make all the characters available from the start doesn't mean the game only appeals to competitive players. After all, having all the characters at the start also benefits casual players. Competitive players aren't the only ones that dislike this massive unlock fest.

I don't think my example is flawed because of that. Plenty of casual players are also feeling frustrated with the design. If Smash is optimally designed to be played at home with friends, that's already a problem because that's exactly how I played it this past weekend and it was probably the least fun I've had playing Smash at launch.


That Nintendo made certain tweaks in favor of the eSports crowd doesn't mean that they should have designed it for eSports first and foremost.
I don't understand how having an optional tournament mode where the characters are unlocked is designing the game for eSports first and foremost.

Or even just having the unlock process not be 60+ characters and more like 10.
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
That Nintendo made certain tweaks in favor of the eSports crowd doesn't mean that they should have designed it for eSports first and foremost. Melee absolutely isn't optimized for eSports at all and that doesn't stop its fervent audience from playing it religiously to this day. And there were a lot of characters to unlock in that game. It doesn't bother anyone that cares that much because they already unlocked all of the character fifteen years ago when the game wasn't about wavedashing, tournaments, and Hungrybox drama. Nothing you've said has in any way convinced me that TOs couldn't possibly wait until this coming weekend to hold tournaments, either. Not when everyone even remotely interested in a tournament has had about a week to play the game and get used to it. And it would give people actually setting the tournaments up time to unlock the characters without killing themselves.

So yes, YOU screwed up. You knew well ahead of time that the game would launch with only eight playable characters at the start and would require unlocking the rest. You also knew that the game would have no special cheat to unlock everyone, even temporarily. You knew this, and yet you didn't plan for it.
You're off-base wrt Melee because you can set up an entire Melee tournament with a single memory card: just get a hold of one that already has a complete save file, and either copy that to other memory cards or just load that single memory card on multiple systems. Modern games with account-based saves and DLC aren't nearly as straightforward.

And the rest of your post comes off as incredibly condescending tripe. I have no idea why you are arguing that other players deserve to be inconvenienced for literally no benefit to yourself.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
Having now put 10+ hours into the game, I feel like even more needs to be said about how difficult the Unlocking fights are.

I'm seeing Meta Knight chase off stages with 3+ jumps and perfectly edgeguarding with back and forward air. I'm seeing Little Mac tech Ganondorf's side B and immediately retaliate with KO punch. I'm seeing Roy run in on a whiffed move, up throw, up tilt, forward air for really good damage at the start of the match.

I'm not that bad at this game, and I'm having a lot of trouble with some of these. I can't imagine how it is for small children that aren't that good at the game, or people that never played Smash before.

The difficulty is bordering on being an accessibility problem.
 

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,231
I love it and im unlocking them pretty fast and im having tons of fun in the different ways i can.
The only thing to talk here is asking for a cheat unlock for people who dont like itand tournaments but unlocking characters needs to stay and be as fun as its now.
I'm actually okay with this, mostly because outside of Mii Outfits and Spirits, there's nothing else to unlock in the game since trophies, stage, and music unlocks are all gone.

Music unlocks are in the game also.
 

ErrorJustin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,463
LOOOOVE and will forever defend the character unlocking. It's great fun doing it via Classic Mode and learning all the characters and trying new people out.

Agree the challenger fights are too hard though. The excitement comes from the "CHALLENGER APPROACHING!!" siren and interrupt - the fight itself should be a formality - just an opportunity to quickly beat them down and unlock them. Especially since you're not using your main in most instances.
 

MrMephistoX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,754
I must be one of the few people on this board ok with this.

I'm not in a rush to unlock every single character. I'm having fun just playing with different modes and unlocking everyone.

I like what Sakurai did this time. Always get excited when I see "Challenger approaching!". :O


I'm okay with it; from a kids perspective unlocking is a hook. My 6 year old and I are having a blast with it but I do wish the fights were easier or you had rematch options..way harder than the normal AI.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,465
So I failed cloud. Went to games and more and failed again. How/when does he show back up. That was last night and not there again. Is it after you play more or a certain amount of time? He's my last one
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
I'm okay with it; from a kids perspective unlocking is a hook. My 6 year old and I are having a blast with it but I do wish the fights were easier or you had rematch options..way harder than the normal AI.

They seem to get easier on The rematches. Maybe the difficulty goes down with each rematch?
 
Last edited:
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
What's funny to me is that the milestone that you get when you unlock all fighters is:

"All fighters now available!
Let the true battle begin!"

"Let the true battle begin!"

Is it really that hard to understand that some people just expect a way to do that right out of the gate!? I get that a lot of people like unlocks and given that Smash has wider appeal than as just a pure competitive fighter, I don't want to take that away from people. But this is truly a frustrating topic just in the sheer amount of people that can't step outside their own shoes for one minute and make a simple concession of "while I like the system as is I can see why alternatives should exist for people that just want to get right into the nitty gritty of playing multiplayer modes with all the characters." Seriously, why is this so fucking hard!?!?
Yeah sums it up perfectly.

It may seem dumb but, people tend to go the path of least resistance. Not giving us the option forces us not to have to use self control. It's why people tend to run the clock out in Smash vs playing it the fun way as example. It's intelligent game design because it gives the finger to people who aren't really interested in playing Smash while giving the rest fun milestones to look forward to
I don't understand your logic. If people always go the path of least resistance then there's no point in difficulty settings in games. Why make a hard mode when people will just play easy mode? Even with your example of people running out the clock, you still have stock battles so that supports having options rather than not having them. Players will pick the settings that are most fun to them. We're talking about video games where people do self-enforced speed runs and challenge runs like Pokemon Nuzlockes. At the end of the day, why should you be upset that some people are taking the "easy" route if it makes the game more enjoyable to them? It's less of an intelligent design and more of a stubborn one. "You'll have fun but only the way I say."

Also you've got to be way out of touch if you think just because someone doesn't want to unlock 60+ characters and would rather have most or all of them at the start that they aren't really interested in playing Smash. That's some "true fan" bullshit.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,050
I'm enjoying the WoL mode immensely... Although, I get the argument that people just want to unlock everyone to have the full roster when playing with other people.

I think if the starting roster were a bit larger, it wouldn't be a huge issue. Most casual players don't need 70 fighters to choose from to have a good time.
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
If Nintendo let you have the starting roster plus be promoted to any 4 characters of your choice when you start up the game for the first time, would people here be satisfied?
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
I fought Meta Knight last night and I could barely hit the guy. It was as if the game was reading my inputs and countering perfectly. Shit was obnoxious. At this point I basically just use the Mii Swordfighter and spam the tornado attack until I can knock them out with one hit. Just isn't very fun at all.
 
OP
OP
KillstealWolf

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,064
If Nintendo let you have the starting roster plus be promoted to any 4 characters of your choice when you start up the game for the first time, would people here be satisfied?

Not really, for a newcomer it's the analysis paralysis problem where they now have to chose 4 characters out of 64 (66? I get confused with pokemon trainer) and they still will struggle with the later character unlocks. A pro player has to learn match-ups against other characters so they will need everyone unlocked. Tournament organizers also need everyone unlocked still for tournament. It only really benefits those that play only 1-4 characters online and that's it. It's something, but why cap at 4? The unlock code/button option would be better.
 

Deleted member 896

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
Not really, for a newcomer it's the analysis paralysis problem where they now have to chose 4 characters out of 64 (66? I get confused with pokemon trainer) and they still will struggle with the later character unlocks. A pro player has to learn match-ups against other characters so they will need everyone unlocked. Tournament organizers also need everyone unlocked still for tournament. It only really benefits those that play only 1-4 characters online and that's it. It's something, but why cap at 4? The unlock code/button option would be better.

If memory is serving me correctly there's 63 character unlock battles. That only gets us to 71, but the Mii Fighters don't actually appear as challengers. You can unlock them at any point by simply creating a Mii character. I do think you can unlock default Mii characters in World of Light though?
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
Not really, for a newcomer it's the analysis paralysis problem where they now have to chose 4 characters out of 64 (66? I get confused with pokemon trainer) and they still will struggle with the later character unlocks. A pro player has to learn match-ups against other characters so they will need everyone unlocked. Tournament organizers also need everyone unlocked still for tournament. It only really benefits those that play only 1-4 characters online and that's it. It's something, but why cap at 4? The unlock code/button option would be better.

But that's not great for the people who want to unlock the characters and want to play online. No perfect system, unfortunately.
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,560
LOOOOVE and will forever defend the character unlocking. It's great fun doing it via Classic Mode and learning all the characters and trying new people out.

Agree the challenger fights are too hard though. The excitement comes from the "CHALLENGER APPROACHING!!" siren and interrupt - the fight itself should be a formality - just an opportunity to quickly beat them down and unlock them. Especially since you're not using your main in most instances.

The disconnect in this mindset is what I don't get. I thought the unlocks were supposed to be some sense of progression? Isn't that the arugment?

But the second paragraph essentially undermines the main argument for them. How is it any sort of progression if the fights are a mere formality? That's essentially just a unlock timer, which has nothing to do with any real progression.
 

Wyze

Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,140
I love it, gives me something to do and I like the excitement of not knowing who's next
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,119
Finished unlocking everyone. Enjoyed it for the most part, though there really should be a more convenient alternative for young children & tournament organizers.

They seem to get easier on The rematches. Maybe the difficulty goes down with each rematch?
Yeah they definitely do.

First time I fought Cloud I got walloped. Like straight up Daigo Vs a punching bag embarrassed.
Second time around he kicks my ass, but at least I got a few hits in.
Third time around, I manage to comfortably win.
 

battleborn27

Banned
Oct 6, 2018
693
What I hate about this is the difficuly on the fights to unlock the characters. I still have 10 characters left to unlock, but I can't beat Cloud, Mewtwo and other charaters for shit as they got too difficult. Any way to cheese the AI?
 

Deleted member 9714

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,882
I don't mind having to unlock them. Playing Classic Mode with a new character and getting another new one as a result is really fun. However, some of the challenger fights themselves are just not fun at all. I end up trying to damage them with projectiles because their AI is so dangerous when they get close to you. That part of the process isn't fun. And when you lose it stinks not being able to rechallenge them right away, instead having to wait for the icon to appear.
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,119
What I hate about this is the difficuly on the fights to unlock the characters. I still have 10 characters left to unlock, but I can't beat Cloud, Mewtwo and other charaters for shit as they got too difficult. Any way to cheese the AI?
I used Link for almost everyone.

Plink away at everyone with arrows & boomerangs, then hit them with the side-smash. The second hit of that attack seems a little too effective. If they're around 80% and close to edge of the screen, then it's a guaranteed KO.
 

battleborn27

Banned
Oct 6, 2018
693
I used Link for almost everyone.

Plink away at everyone with arrows & boomerangs, then hit them with the side-smash. The second hit of that attack seems a little too effective. If they're around 80% and close to edge of the screen, then it's a guaranteed KO.
Thanks for the advice. Will try now,hopefully I can finally be done with the unlocking.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
46,815
the solution is to let us enter the konami code to unlock every character, but saving becomes disabled once you activate a cheat. that leaves incentive to actually unlock them all for real, but if you just want to punch k rool with donkey kong at a party (or running a tournament), you have the option without any stress.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
I love it, gives me something to do and I like the excitement of not knowing who's next
I guess I'd understand the excitement more if a) I didn't already know every single character in the roster, and b) I hadn't fought against them multiple times in Classic/WoL/Spirit Board.

I know who they are and how they play, so not having them is kinda dumb to me.
 

super-famicom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
25,149
I don't mind the unlocking process, gives me something to work towards while also letting me slowly try out the roster. I unlocked my main early (Peach), so now I can mess around with the new fighters.

I just unlocked 8 characters in about an hour. 5 of them were failed challenges from yesterday, and they were all queued up, so I did those all in a row. The rest I unlocked when doing Spirit Board. Only 22 more unlocks to go!
 

oofouchugh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,963
Night City
If Nintendo let you have the starting roster plus be promoted to any 4 characters of your choice when you start up the game for the first time, would people here be satisfied?

Fuck no that solves nothing. As someone who enjoys playing fighting games competitively with a local scene and go to tournaments I want to dig into all the characters, find ones I like, and just go ham on practicing them. Originally I was curious about playing Captain Falcon and Wolf but eventually ended up preferring Peach/Daisy and Ganon. In this case I'd still have to unlock the entire roster anyways.
 

Raiden

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,922
Okay, after playing a while and getting my ass kicked by a couple of new challengers that i wanted, i have to say starting with only the original 8 is way too low.

I just wanna try wolf damnit
 

Deleted member 4093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,671
If everyone was unlocked people would cry there were no unlocks.

If they were too easy, everyone would cry they were no challenge.

Now that there is 70 characters to unlock its TOO HARD only because there are many.

You people should be grateful you get 70 free players instead of starting with like 12 with season passes to unlock the rest. Absolutely insatiable.
 

faceless

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,198
it's always the same.

people who just want to play VS frustrated at wasting time to unlock stuff so they can finally play the actual game.

and people who apparently have fun checking boxes, unlocking achievements and trophies defending said bullshit.
 

Wil Grieve

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,044
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate just came out and it's pretty darn great. A gigantic amount of content in terms of stages, music, single player content and fighters in it. Just look at the size of the character select screen.

Smash_Ult_Character_screen.jpg

However, there is one pretty big problem with the game (Ok, online might be a problem as well, but I don't have an Online Subscription to test it) and that is in the mulitplayer, you don't start with that many characters. You start with this many.

vlcsnap_2018_12_05_19h56m14s700.png

Yes, only 8 of the 74 fighters. I get it, it's the original 8 from the first game, it's a cute reference. But any cuteness about it wears off when you start going through trying to unlock everyone in it. And I can already here people saying "What problem! I see no problem having to unlock all of those fighters! That is the game for me!", Before I list the big issues I have with the unlocking of characters, I'll address the common defences for having to unlock everyone first.

A Roster of 74 characters to start with would be too overwhelming for newcomers!
This is perhaps the most reasonable argument for not having everyone available at the start, having everyone might overwhelm people to begin with. The Smash 64 roster is also fairly easy to pick up and learn as well with a lot of them being fairly simple moveset wise. It's much easier to pick up and understand Mario or Kirby than, for example, Robin with his/her various Magic Move meters or Inkling and her/his Ink Mechanic. The only slightly irregular character is Yoshi of the original 8. That said, there are some characters that are fairly easy to pick up and learn that are not included. Peach for example with her incredible horizontal recovery, Dedede who's the easiest Heavy Weight for a newcomer to pick up, there also some move concepts the original 8 don't have like Physical Counter Moves someone like Marth or Ike have.

There is also a lot of things Smash could do to make things easier for beginners that it doesn't do, like have a proper tutorial mode, you just have the video at the beginning, a command list and a tips section. It's tutorial offerings are lacking compared to similar fighting games on the market like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Guilty Gear, UNIEL, Skullgirls and many more that offer playable tutorial modes that overview all the games mechanics, character specific mechanics and gameplay mechanics, combo trials of varying difficulty, even general fighting game playstyles and systems like rushdown, zoning, spacing, applying pressure until they block and mixing it up with a command grab if that's how your character's playstyle works... it goes on. This is a discussion worthy of it's own thread so I won't go into it fully here, but Smash doesn't exactly make itself the easiest game for newcomers in all, it does some good thing, simplified controller scheme, beginner rooms online to name a few, but it has a long way to go in this front. It's another discussion for another thread though.

This is the one thing I'm most lenient on, but even then, a few more simple to learn characters could be included as starters if they wanted to go this route (and newcomers are likely to be overwhelmed by the large number of stages they see beforehand instead.)

I want to be surprised by who's in the game!
Yeah… that worked in the past Smash Games. Previous smash games would go so far to even change UI menu and the opening video depending on who you have and haven't unlocked in the game. But this game is less subtle about hiding it's characters. Even if you have hidden under a rock not to be spoiled who's in the game. The opening video shows every single fighter in the game, same with the world of light opening cutscene, characters you haven't unlocked will show up in Spirits Mode and Classic mode anyway, Classic has a giant Mural with every character on it. If you go to Tips it shows tips for all the characters unlocked or not. Heck, even the physical game box shows everyone in the game in the inside art. There isn't any character surprises this time around.
But it's fun to unlock all the characters!

This is subjective. I know there's a lot of people out that love the whole "Challenger Approaching" alarm fight to unlock system. I know some people consider they have completed the game when they have unlocked everyone and move on different games when they do. However, this is not the absolute consensus, there are also players that just want to boot up the game and play as there favourites from the go. Some people may want to hit the training room and see what changes their character has. Some people may want to go online and just show the world how good they are from day 1, other may just want to finally play as Ridley, and they will eventually, but they won't be able to right out of the gate. This varies. And there's one specific thing I'll talk about later that makes this the one defence I'm least willing to listen to.

So, the problems.

The Unlock Process is long and tedious.

First, yes, it does not take as long to unlock everyone in this game as it did in Melee, no more 10 hours game time for Mewtwo or 1000 matches for Game and Watch. It's shorter than Brawl's was as well. However, it's significantly longer than 3DS and Wii U's. I took about 6-7 hours having to unlock everyone for my cartridge, and that was using the reset exploit along with it (most people probably don't even know about the reset exploit unless you look it up on a website on fastest ways to unlock everyone in Smash), with only 1 or 2 classic mode runs during the process since I wanted to try it out. Still, on launch day with 3 hours of pure grinding for a launch party, I could only get 31 of the 74 unlocked. And at the launch party (our prefered method of playing was all randoms for those curious) we got 4 characters unlocked during our hour of playing our game (We couldn't do the reset technique so there was the 10 minute cooldowns between characters here).

Even if that number was 1 hour or 30 minutes though. Those numbers are still too high. For many, they want that number to be Zero. Why should people that want to play the way they want to play be denied by all these character unlocks? It's not like the game is lacking in the unlock department, you have Spirits, Music, Mii Customisation and Challenge Board objectives if you want to unlock stuff. All stuff that doesn't affect the core multiplayer gameplay.

It's going to take probably upwards of 12 hours for a regular gamer, probably more… if they even can unlock them that is.

Some people might not be able to unlock all the Characters

As you unlock more and more characters, the difficulty of the challenger matches increase. And some of the later ones have absurd high difficulty levels. In my attempt, I required 7 retries on Challenger matches, 1 on Roy, Robin, Incineroar, Snake and Rob, and 2 matches for Dedede (Your list will likely vary depending on order you encounter them, these were some of the last fighters I got the challenger approaching with to unlock). Now, I consider myself an above average player (I was able to get a 9.9 Classic Intensity Clear on my second run through Classic Mode with Pikachu). For someone that isn't as good at games, or perhaps this is the first console game they ever own? I have doubts they might be able to unlock everyone. I know some people on Resetera here already say they can't do these matches, and we're a pretty hardcore gaming community that play games a lot.

I assume the AI will get gradually easier and easier every time you beat them, too early to tell if that's the case so far but I assume that's the case. But even on the easiest level some people might not be able to unlock that. So they are gatekeepered out of playing the characters they want to play just because they can't beat the unlock match to do so.

And don't say "Get Gid" as a response for those struggling. It shouldn't be that hard to unlock everyone. The tagline for the game is "Everyone is here!" not "Everyone is Here, but you might not be able to unlock all of them if you are bad at fighting games"

Tournament organizing is going to be more frustrating due to unlocking the characters,
You think unlocking all the characters once is frustrating? Try being a Tournament organizer where you will need to unlock all the characters on multiple units. Even when a fully optimized unlock method as planned out it's still probably going to take at least 3 to 4 hours to unlock everyone on one unit (and assuming you are fairly competent enough to beat the challenges on their first try as well for time saving). Melee with it's absurd unlock times at least only required doing it on one memory stick, then you can just copy that save onto the other memory cards you need. Smash Ultimate saves are locked to that one switch, and you'll need a Online Subscription Service if you want to create a backup of that save. And save transfers are one way at present. It's a lot of uneeded hassle for tournament organizers to set up and might actually affect the tournament scene for the game in the long run.

Alright so if you have read through all of that, acknowledged the current problems that people have with the unlock system and still think you have to unlock all the characters because it's more fun to unlock all of them despite that not being what everyone thinks, here's the kicker.

World of Light is a mode dedicated to the people that love unlocking everyone.
If you unlock all the characters through Classic or VS. Matches, you still have to unlock them in your World of Light file. Here's the thing, for me personally at least, it has been much more fun to unlock all the characters in World of Light than it is through unlocking through classic or vs matches or the like. First of, you only start with Kirby, there's actually an in-game reason why you only start with Kirby with the opening cutscene so there's justification for why you are only starting with one character here, now you have a motivation to go and unlock everyone. The overworld map can give a clear visual route on how many matches you need to do before you get to unlock someone, there may even be multiple routes to reach if some of the spirit matches are giving you a hassle, there's even branching paths that make you chose which fighter you want to unlock now and which you will wait for later (Choice in which fighter I want to unlock first? You spoil me World of Light.). In addition, you also will be gathering spirits that can use to help tweak your playstyle, maybe you equip spirits that increases your special attacks, maybe one that heals you over time, maybe even one that starts you with a Death Scythe, you can tweak it to your preference. It also solves that difficulty issue from earlier, outside of the starting Easy, Medium or Hard difficulty select, you can go into the match with one super powered high level spirit and crush through the match, you can hit the "Autopick" button so the game picks a spirit that tries to give a good fair match for a good level of rewards, or you can even create a spirit build that will be at a disadvantage or even enter with No Spirits at all if you wish for a challenge. There's also Skill Spheres that you use to put into a skill tree that lets your modify your gameplay further. It's actually quite fun to unlock the characters in this mode, and there's 3 save files so you can do it multiple times. Oh, and there's 7 additional fighters to unlock as well! The only real downsides are it's single player only so you can't unlock it in a group co-op unless you do a pass the controller system, and that it doesn't have the warning siren I guess? They probably can add that in a patch in the future if need be.

World of Light actually makes it fun to unlock everyone, so the question now is… why wasn't World of Light the dedicated mode for people that love to unlock everyone in their fighting games, and for everyone that prefers, wishes or requires to have all the characters unlocked at that start of the game can just jump into Smash, chose their favourites and go? For those that like the process of Unlocking characters, wouldn't you agree to just keeping it to World of Light. Beginners could be even steered towards the mode as the one to go to learn the ropes of the games as it has, the mode already has a lot of aid systems to help out new players like the spirits and the skill tree, and Kirby is basically the perfect starting character for a newcomer being one of the most beginner friendly characters to start with, and Mario being the second character who is also very beginner friendly as well makes it probably the best mode for a newcomer to jump into when starting the game. The unlock process mainly something for single players to enjoy, and it's repeatable due to the multiple save files as well. Meanwhile multiplayer focused players, tournament organizers or even people that just want to hit the lab and relearn their old mains can just do that without having to jump through all these hoops to unlock everyone to play the game how they want to play the game.

...Woof, that took a lot to right, apologies if there's typos, it's nearly 3am over here now, I blame Smash for sucking up most of my time doing so, half annoyed having to unlock everyone for a gaming event tomorrow, half gleaming with joy really, really enjoying the game with it's graphics, soundtrack, stages and gameplay. Honestly I'm amazed the game didn't even launch with a "Tournament Friendly" mode with everyone unlocked but no progress is saved like gathered spirits, or there isn't some cheat code like entering the Konami Code on the title screen to unlock all characters. I hope they can at least patch that in like how they patched Super Mario Maker to allow everyone access to the Level Editing tools right away instead of having to wait a day for the next tier of level editing tools to unlock.

TL:DR - World of Light should be the only mode with the Unlocking the entire roster aspect, let there at least be a mode or cheatcode that has all fighters available to play as for everyone that needs it.
Took me like 3 hours to unlock everyone.

No problem
 

Deleted member 896

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
If everyone was unlocked people would cry there were no unlocks.

If they were too easy, everyone would cry they were no challenge.

Now that there is 70 characters to unlock its TOO HARD only because there are many.

You people should be grateful you get 70 free players instead of starting with like 12 with season passes to unlock the rest. Absolutely insatiable.

It's always incredibly lazy to try to argue that "everyone" encompasses some monolithic entity that often acts hypocritically. I mean, you do realize that different voices want different things right? It's like going into some political discussion and going "first people said government shouldn't get involved in health care and then people said they should. Make up your mind people." And somehow didn't realize that there were different political groups making diametrically opposed claims.

It also ignores that those on the "I don't like unlocks" side have provided multiple potential workarounds aside from "unlocks shouldn't exist at all even if people that aren't me like them."
 

Deleted member 4093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,671
It's always incredibly lazy to try to argue that "everyone" encompasses some monolithic entity that often acts hypocritically. I mean, you do realize that different voices want different things right? It's like going into some political discussion and going "first people said government shouldn't get involved in health care and then people said they should. Make up your mind people." And somehow didn't realize that there were different political groups making diametrically opposed claims.

It also ignores that those on the "I don't like unlocks" side have provided multiple potential workarounds aside from "unlocks shouldn't exist at all even if people that aren't me like them."
As stated over and over it only applies to who it applies. Obviously everyone is not exactly every single person because that would include me. Its more of a "if the shoe fits, wear it" type of thing.
 

Deleted member 896

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Oct 25, 2017
2,353
As stated over and over it only applies to who it applies. Obviously everyone is not exactly every single person because that would include me. Its more of a "if the shoe fits, wear it" type of thing.

I mean, you can never make everyone happy, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth exploring alternatives that can assuage concerns. When people act like this is a perfect system that completely confirms to Smash tradition, let's examine the series' history in terms of total unlocks relative to total character count (Smash 4's DLC is ignored here). Number on the left represents number of unlockabke characters, number on right represents total character count:

Smash 64: 4/12

Melee: 11/25

Brawl: 14/35

Smash for 3DS: 12/51

Smash for Wii U: 8/51

Smash Ultimate: 66/74
 

Quebaz

Member
Nov 15, 2017
192
You people should be grateful you get 70 free players instead of starting with like 12 with season passes to unlock the rest. Absolutely insatiable.

I bought Gundam Versus which has 98 playable characters that are unlocked right off the bat, am I allowed to criticise Smash now?

It comes with 70 characters because many of them come from previous installments, and veterans who've been following the series now have to unlock characters that were never needed to be unlocked in previous games.
 

MrBS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,217
Finally done, there is definitely some pity system at work as knocking off the last two after losing multiple times the difficulty went way down, in the end Mewtwo was practically standing still waiting for me to KO him.

Now I finally enjoy this game. Yay. Roll on weekend party play.
 

Deleted member 4093

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I bought Gundam Versus which has 98 playable characters that are unlocked right off the bat, am I allowed to criticise Smash now?

It comes with 70 characters because many of them come from previous installments, and veterans who've been following the series now have to unlock characters that were never needed to be unlocked in previous games.
Everyone is perfectly fine. Like I said if the shoe fits wear it. Not everyone plays gundamn and hardly do we get an AAA game with this amount of content.
 

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
it's always the same.

people who just want to play VS frustrated at wasting time to unlock stuff so they can finally play the actual game.

and people who apparently have fun checking boxes, unlocking achievements and trophies defending said bullshit.


Pretty sure World of light, classic mode, etc are the actual game too. I've sunk hours into them and have no interest in the multiplayer.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,094
How long it takes to unlock them all? if it's 10 hours I see no issue, but if its 30-50 hours, it would be fucking terrible, since this game is a fighter I want all the characters avaliable as soon as possible, and my gaming time is reduced considering that I have a job and other things to do, so if I have to wait 1-2 months (the time that it takes me to beat an rpg to give an example) it would be terrible
 

Deleted member 4093

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7,671
How long it takes to unlock them all? if it's 10 hours I see no issue, but if its 30-50 hours, it would be fucking terrible, since this game is a fighter I want all the characters avaliable as soon as possible, and my gaming time is reduced considering that I have a job and other things to do, so if I have to wait 1-2 months (the time that it takes me to beat an rpg to give an example) it would be terrible
I've been working 65 hour weeks the past 2 weeks. I unlocked all of them within 5 hours of release when it came out at 12AM digital.