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We should give people like Milo a platform, Says Jaffe; not doing so is ruining the country. Defends himself with NPC memes.

Oct 25, 2017
2,735
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Destiny would cream Jaffe.

hey just FYI Destiny is also bad.
He has his blind spots (that I absolutely won't defend) but he's by no means bad. As insulting and stupid as his defence of slurs is (which is also inconsistent with his desire to be a better person and not use such language lest he be lumped in with those he hates) he's a net good on the internet and has demolished many on the alt right, very publicly, steering impressionable people away from them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Good.

This is also the reason why Milo was deplatformed for ignorant people like David Jaffe:
https://variety.com/2017/biz/news/milo-yiannopoulos-resigns-breitbart-pedophilia-1201993063/



He wasn't deplatformed because of his many instances of transphobia. Nor was he deplatformed because of his hiring of nazis to write for him under his byline. He wasn't deplatformed because of his shitty alt-right views.

He was banned from twitter because he was posting faked homophobic tweets in an attempt to open a prominent actress up for harassment. (source: https://www.vox.com/2016/7/20/12226070/milo-yiannopoulus-twitter-ban-explained)

He was deplatformed because of his defense of pediophilia.

Jaffe, this is who you think should have a platform again.
I sincerely hope David educates himself on what he's advocating for.
 
Oct 27, 2017
610
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Twenty twenty twenty four hours to go
I wanna be debated
Nothing to do, but wait for smash bro's,
I wanna be debated
Just get me to a podcast, put me on a show
Hurry hurry hurry, before I lose control
I can't control my fingers, I can't control my posts
Oh no oh oh oh oh
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,752
0
30
I sincerely hope David educates himself on what he's advocating for.
If he was ever interested in educating himself before he spoke, this topic wouldn't exist. I wouldn't be surprised if he does what every "centrist" does and just excuses or outright ignores this in favor of forcing his bullshit point about the "end of critical thinking".
 
This thread has legit done me a service in making me realize Jaffe is a fucking loser. Mans such a fucking loser that he’s picking fights with a video game forum. Guy used to be someone too which makes it all the more funny.
even Josh "Dickbag" Thomas didn't reply to individual posters, and he's only famous for being the worst guy in old gamexplain videos
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,700
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This thread has legit done me a service in making me realize Jaffe is a fucking loser. Mans such a fucking loser that he’s picking fights with a video game forum. Guy used to be someone too which makes it all the more funny.
He's probably reading your post now and thinking "DAMNIT, I want to screencap this and post it on TWITTER and... SAY WORDS"
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,119
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The In-Between
Also the new American way is to silence people who disagree with you so lets do that...
I would suggest you look at the history of America. Specifically, the history of civil rights and LGBTQ people. It was never, “Let’s allow these guys to say whatever as long as it’s respectful!”

Not at all. It was brutally staunch opposition to the dehumanization of others. It was shutting down voices that wanted to make people’s lives a “debate”.

We are not and will NEVER be a debate. And that’s what people who have never suffered discrimination don’t understand. They’re taught that debates are always intellectual and laud themselves as “critical thinkers”, while at the same time showing the emotional intelligence of a rock.

Also how is milo alt right? Hes gay and they hate gay people. Just like when people call ben Shapiro a Nazi only to relize hes Jewish. But to each his own.
Some people belonging to marginalized groups can divorce themselves from solidarity. It happens. Some people really want to be heard and are okay with throwing everyone under the bus to make it happen.

Milo is (or was 🤪) affluent and white enough to ride the coattails of his identity as a lovable contrarian gay man; he also went from being some Perez Hilton-esque provocateur to loudly discussing pedophilia and generally being tasteless and edgy to advance his career.

Also people don’t always understand this, but Racism and Homophobia isn’t just saying “eww gays” or “eww blacks”.

It’s also thinking that white and straight is the default. It’s “tolerating” gays even though you don’t approve their lifestyle (as if they need your validation to exist).

It’s the disproportionately negative hands we give black, brown and Asian people. It’s a lot of things we never think about, because we’re comfortable.

We care to much about peoples opinions nowadays. People can say why they want. You dont have to listen.
I don’t care about someone’s opinion on a lot of things. You can like pineapple on pizza. I really don’t care. Do you.

But that’s not the same as “I think gay people are wrong.” Or “I think trans people have a mental illness.” It’s not even in the same ballpark.

And history itself has shown us the devastating results of “opinions” like that. The AIDS epidemic. Slavery. The displacement of native Americans, and the ol’ classic, Hitler.

Right now in America there are places where you can get fired for being gay. In other parts of the world it is illegal and punishable with death.

Guess how all of that started? An opinion.
 
Nov 12, 2017
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Macragge, Ultramar
Destiny would cream Jaffe.



He has his blind spots (that I absolutely won't defend) but he's by no means bad. As insulting and stupid as his defence of slurs is (which is also inconsistent with his desire to be a better person and not use such language lest he be lumped in with those he hates) he's a net good on the internet and has demolished many on the alt right, very publicly, steering impressionable people away from them.
I agree completely. I have my problems with Destinys stance on one or two things. It would be great to watch Destiny demolish him.
 
Jan 11, 2018
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I mean, if we lived in a world where there weren’t millions of uninformed, gullible, morally questionable people incapable of critical thinking and we didn’t have a country where the entire system of government was predicated on a growing discord between these extreme but not uncommon representatives of our populous then yeah, everybody should have a chance to speak their mind if they aren’t specifically advocating for violence or discrimination. But that’s not the reality we are in, and even if it were the distinction between advocating for repugnant ideologies and I’ll-advised philosophical beliefs and catering to those people, or dog-whistling racism, or sharing false equivalences is just way too murky.

At best somebody like Milo is a provocateur with some fucked up beliefs but mostly is just trying to be a troll to get a rise for...some reason. That’s the best case for what Milo is, and I definitely don’t think that’s an accurate portrayal either. I think that’s giving him waaaay too much benefit of the doubt.

Ultimately if your schtick is to piss people off and say messed up things I don’t care if you have a platform. You have the freedom of speech but you don’t have the right to be a dickhead without consequences.
 
even Josh "Dickbag" Thomas didn't reply to individual posters, and he's only famous for being the worst guy in old gamexplain videos
Yea I'm impressed with Jaffe here, he managed to out loser the racist ex gameexplain loser. That takes some effort.

I wonder if he spends his nights wide awake in bed thinking "Man, I used to be someone. What happened? The world must be biased against me!"
He's gotta lol, wonder if after tonight he's gonna make it "damn what happened I sued to have a varied and successful career. People wanted me! Must be because of that damn video game forum that nothing works out anymore".

He's probably reading your post now and thinking "DAMNIT, I want to screencap this and post it on TWITTER and... SAY WORDS"
Lmao exactly
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,170
0
Twenty twenty twenty four hours to go
I wanna be debated
Nothing to do, but wait for smash bro's,
I wanna be debated
Just get me to a podcast, put me on a show
Hurry hurry hurry, before I lose control
I can't control my fingers, I can't control my posts
Oh no oh oh oh oh
I rate this post: Very Good.
 
Oct 25, 2017
57
0
Yeah I can't fully put myself in the same situation, there are certain topics though where discussion/debate does hurt me to follow. But I can admit priviledge here. And I wouldn't say to a minority that it's your responsibility to debate bigots or educate them, though I don't see any reason why ethnic minority shouldn't challenge homophobia when they see it etc. But anyone who enjoys any priviledge, should call out, challenge and debate people who look to opress and discriminate. I wouldn't tell a black person to debate white supremacist, but people of color should challenge homophobia/transphobia and sexism atleast among their own community if not otherwise.

Personally, I'm not a public debater, I don't get invited to colleges or radio and TV. But I do what I can among friends, family, coworkers and other opportunities I may have (like online).

It's sad to see the defeatist attitude of "nothing can be done, not worth the effort". As we can see even many good people at ResetEra don't bother to even call out (not necessarily debate) their own family. https://www.resetera.com/threads/to...to-call-out-your-racist-family-members.82359/
Also simply calling out proud racists as a Nazi isn't probably changing them either, yet it should be done too to show it's not acceptable. But personally I'd go further than that and aim for a change through discourse. In both the goal is to have people self-reflect.

I'm sure I've never changed a full blown Nazi, but I've seen people understand some things, change their views or atleast broaden them. I've seen difference in their behaviour, I've got comments from others how they've seen a change in another person or how they've changed themselves. I've been encouraged to continue doing that. I've seen people go from not caring/bothering to start calling out BS themselves. That's my gauge for success, even if on a small scale. This on topics like cultural appropriation, generalizations, non black people using the word nigga, toxic masculinity, importance of representation in media and so on. So not saying I've reached someone who thinks ethnic or sexual minorities should be killed, but I've debated their equal rights with succes with religious folk. I'm not afraid to bring any of these topics up that I see as important, I don't try to avoid confrontation (unless with high risk to physical safety). But I'm not also the best equipped to challenge these things, I try to educate myself too and as said do what I can based on that. Sometimes it's just raising awareness. And I have no way to know if my online presence has affected anyone in a positive manner (or negative), but I can personally attest that even online discussions/debates have had an effect on me. Though I've never been a nazi, but still I've learned and understood to refresh my thinking and views (even when not personally involved in a debate).

The change of course doesn't always happen right in the moment, it's not just snap of the fingers to make someone drop their hateful views. And some people are definitely out of reach, I wont argue against that. With debating the likes of Milo, the goal wouldn't be to change Milo. But anyone leaning on that way, sympathizing with them or sitting straight on the fence atleast.

Like Jaffe said, nobody owns them a private platform (Twitter). But government shouldn't be shutting them down. Personally for me that comes with a caveat, they can go too far. Hate speech laws should be in effect, incitement of violence shouldn't be allowed either of course. Nazi's shouldn't be allowed to march in the streets under their banners, but political parties like the Finns party (number one with Nazis) here should be allowed a platform and I would rather have someone challenging them on that same platform. Some of them have got in trouble for incitement of hatred towards ethnic group(s) and "blasphemy", some I agree with and some I don't.

Please keep in mind that this post isn't specifically about Milo, but all the likes of Milo. (Kicking him of Twitter was fair game) Those who are trying to gain followers and even radicalize people. They will be spreading their word, either openly or hidden. Blatantly or with dogwhistles. You asked about debates and personal experience, this reply is to that. I can't do miracles, but I try to help. I don't want to just sit idle and do nothing. People with priviledges shouldn't be doing that. I should probably do more too. I think debating, discussion and influencing people is more important and more effective than just voting in example. I only get one vote, but I can influence others in how to use their vote too. Admittedly not everyone is equally receptive as already stated. And sometimes instead of discourse and debate with a bigot, I just flip my shit because I don't have the patience for them.

Edit: I just read an article where two feminist women watched the documentary Red Pill and commented on it. They noted how the film defined feminism and did it incorrectly. This happened because there wasn't anyone to challenge this definition. And people would be more likely to hear it challenged when it's through a debate, than a feminist blog in example. Many people who are supportive of the doc and it's message are much less likely to look up feminist speeches than to follow a debate where their side is also represented. Like debating Peterson. The debate exposes them to the opposite idea, of course this works the other way too. The article went over some of the points in the doc, so it also exposed people to it's messaging. But there also was dissenting voices over it. I have faith in progressive messaging, I have faith in what I believe is right. I have faith in acceptance and understanding more than hate. I don't see bigotry as something easy to defend and rationalize.

Edit 2: I also believe there shouldn't be any taboo subjects of discussion.
great post man
 
Oct 30, 2017
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He (milo) has only been deplatformed on twitter, right? He's been fading away without even being pulled out of much.
Twitter too? I think I heard it was from Patreon.

What did Milo said to be banned? I only saw a few videos from him that may be several years old. Is because he doesn't like (a certain type of) feminists/sjw/etc? Serious question, I'm not kidding or trolling.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I am still eager to hear from Jaffe how promoting the idea of a white ethnostate in America isn't inherently an incitement to violence given the implementation as suggested by those keen to see it happen always involves "incentivised" and then forced deportations of non-whites. Why should this violently racist ideology be protected speech?

Come on Jaffe let's hear it, you utter buffoon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Twitter too? I think I heard it was from Patreon.

What did Milo said to be banned? I only saw a few videos from him that may be several years old. Is because he doesn't like (a certain type of) feminists/sjw/etc? Serious question, I'm not kidding or trolling.
https://mashable.com/article/milo-yiannopoulos-deplatforming-alex-jones/#QAioCI3UvOqV

In 2016, Twitter permanently banned Yiannopoulos for his participation in a targeted racist harassment campaign against comedian Leslie Jones.
ETA: https://splinternews.com/how-a-racist-sexist-hate-mob-forced-leslie-jones-off-t-1793860398

Includes the fake tweets he was making to try to make Leslie look bad and incite his followers
 
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Oct 26, 2017
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Tokyo

Everybody who defended Jaffe need to come collect y'alls man because... this ain't it.
The fuck.
Does he really not understand what he is actually typing?
How am I or any other nonwhite person supposed to take that stance of his? How can you not see support for a White Ethnostate is to kill those around you who do not fit such a place?
 
Oct 25, 2017
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So does Jaffe think it's okay for people to think that slavery shouldn't have been abolished? No one should have the right to declare racial seniority.
He thinks they should be allowed to have this belief. Spread this belief. Amass support for this belief. Gain strength in numbers, finances, and all else.

But they shouldn't DO anything with all of this amassed support. Then, and only then, it has gone too far.
 
Oct 28, 2017
873
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Iowa
He thinks they should be allowed to have this belief. Spread this belief. Amass support for this belief. Gain strength in numbers, finances, and all else.

But they shouldn't DO anything with all of this amassed support. Then, and only then, it has gone too far.
Thank god he's not in charge of an anti-terrorism department.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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He thinks they should be allowed to have this belief. Spread this belief. Amass support for this belief. Gain strength in numbers, finances, and all else.

But they shouldn't DO anything with all of this amassed support. Then, and only then, it has gone too far.
He also thinks that it's wrong for folks to interrupt these people indirectly calling for genocide.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I think Jaffe is just excited to be relevant in gaming communities again for the first time in years.
Jaffe's probably just milking this, consciously or not, its been years since his name became relevant again.
Pretty much.

Weird that people are so eager to give him what he wants, but here we are.

Some people are so excited about the idea of seeing Jaffe get owned or whatever that they're giving him relevancy and a grand new audience.

I'm all about giving Boogie the business because he's actually relevant when he spreads his bullshit. This guy doesn't even fucking matter. Why bother?
 
Oct 26, 2017
577
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London, UK
I feel like Jaffe's willingness to go to bat for these people speaks volumes about the level of bullying/abuse/oppression he's faced in his life.

It's also kinda sad he doesn't have anyone he cares about so affected by this sort of shit that it occurs to him what his ideology would enable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Hi Dave.

Since you're reading this thread, I'd just like to mention that you might want to think about why it is that you view supporting peoples' ability to speak in favor of a white ethnostate as more important than stopping them from, y'know, creating one. I mean, I believe you when you say that it's not a thing you support, but you're spending a lot of time defending their platform and not a lot of time attacking their fascist beliefs. I just think you might want to rethink what your priorities are here.

Also, I know guys like you love the concept of the "free marketplace of ideas," but with Milo specifically I think it's worth pointing out that the guy isn't taken seriously by bascially anyone right or left at this point outside of his dwindling number of diehard supporters. He entered the marketplace of ideas and his ideas were thoroughly defeated. The problem is that when people have no real intellectual honesty, they aren't just going to go away once they're proven wrong. Nobody takes Milo seriously anymore, but he will always take himself seriously and will never shut up about it. That doesn't mean we have to keep engaging him though. Even if you do believe in debate, Milo isn't relevant enough to be worth debating at this point. Giving him a platform only legitimizes him.

Also stop asking random people to debate you. It's obnoxious.

Death to Fascism,
-Stove