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We should give people like Milo a platform, Says Jaffe; not doing so is ruining the country. Defends himself with NPC memes.

Oct 26, 2017
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Oh is that why this place gets a bad reputation? Calling out bigots for supporting hate speech and demeaning entire groups of people without cause other than their existence?
Literally yes. Toxicity, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, racism, etc. are so normalized in the gaming community that a place like this sticks out as an outlier and thus gets a bad reputation for *reads notes* calling out the BS and "not actually talking about games" as the lurkers so often like to say, (please pay no attention to the fact that this forum always having the biggest OT threads for every prominent release, that really goes against the narrative that we don't play or talk about video games enough).
 
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Oct 25, 2017
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Greater Vancouver

Everybody who defended Jaffe need to come collect y'alls man because... this ain't it.
What a worthless fucking asshole. White supremacy is okay as long as they do it, what, legally? Sign enough bills to subjugate and kick out minorities so they can feel they did things "the right way" instead of lynch-mobs and white hoods?

And people wanna bat for this motherfucker.
 
Feb 13, 2018
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New Jersey
Okay, I see his point; but people in general easily succumb to fear and tribalism and let mob mentality take over to feel like they are a part of something, a place to belong.

Those alt-right chucklefucks spoke their mind to spread hate and prejudice and helped pave the way for Trump and influenced young people to give into their bias.

We've paid the price for tolerating intolerence, no more. Let prejudice die.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Everybody who defended Jaffe need to come collect y'alls man because... this ain't it.
I guess to him as long as his ass is safe you can say and do whatever you want regardless if the content is actively hurting people, but the moment he gets called out for his very public opinions on things he starts throwing a fit about free speech.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I'm just over here trying to play some Tetris and my mind keeps wondering back to the idea of needing to explain to a grown-ass man why coming out hard against the WHITE ETHNOSTATE is not only not an offensive thing to do, it is basic goddamn common decency.

You've ruined Tetris, Jaffe. I hope you're happy.
 

Fat4all

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,013
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bork land
I guess to him as long as his ass is safe you can say and do whatever you want regardless if the content is actively hurting people, but the moment he gets called out for his very public opinions on things he starts throwing a fit about free speech.
to this day if he hears any word that sounds anything like 'Bosman' his right eye twitches
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Everybody who defended Jaffe need to come collect y'alls man because... this ain't it.
We're done here.

This is the typical end game for the people who simply don't have the balls to stand up to wrong. Take the "intellectual high road", and claim that you will absolutely take action when the group in question crosses that last line. Typical ivory tower bullshit.

"I will be right there on the front lines with you guys if they go too far." No you will not be getting bloody when the time comes. You never had it in you in the first place. You don't have the empathy now, when modern atrocities stare you in the face, why would you then sir?
 
Oct 25, 2017
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USA
Sigh, it's depressing how far people will underestimate the consequences of things being said -- language itself.

Language literally shapes reality.

The things said by Milo are literal representations of violence -- they suggest and perpetuate a reality that does not leave room for tolerance or peace for people on the outside of the norm that it suggests people should adhere to. It is literally the perpetuation of violence through language, it molds a reality that dehumanizes and demonizes in particular transgender people, among others.

If you believe in the prosperity and peace of all people, then it is intolerable to give a platform to. It is directly intended to create a perception of reality that pushes closer and closer toward violent behavior, and it DOES have real tangible consequences that result in suffering of all degrees, the most ultimate of those forms of suffering being violence.

It is, by that measure, really narrow-sighted to hold to some ideal reality where everyone that can speak is on even ground to be represented in the realm of ideas and language by virtue of being alive and existing at all. Language has historically created a reality where ideas do not exist on even ground, and many of those ideas operate at the exclusion of others. We are at a point in our current historical moment where this platform that this idealism promotes is pushing closer and closer to the extreme results of suffering, and it is further painful because it had felt for a while like we were moving in a direction away from that.

We do not owe people who perpetuate those extremes a fucking platform, because we do not even agree with the very idea that we're all on equal ground in the realm of language and reality, because we're fucking not, and we're generally fucking sick of these false ideals wantonly resulting in varying degrees of suffering for reasons propped up on nothing but prejudice and hatred. People like Milo do it with cheeky pride and aggressive disregard for the suffering that it causes, so they can get right the fuck off of any platform ever again.

EDIT a tl;dr -- people who have to suffer because an asshole has a platform are already at a disadvantage and do not owe it to the people that perpetuate their suffering to maintain their platform or trying to prop themselves up on their own platform to combat in some idealistic arena of ideals where the best idea wins. The best idea does not always win, we've had an entire FULL HISTORY OF EXISTENCE where this has NEVER been the case, and the very idea that we're living in some fucking utopia where the battlement of ideas and platforms results in a net gain for everyone is a fucking falsehood that has literally never been reality for humans and never fucking can be if we keep allowing CLEARLY bad ideas to have a platform from which to thrive from
 
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Sep 3, 2018
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According to his twitter he's going to start streaming in a 15 or so minutes, so we can hit him with some questions in the chat and challenge his perspective on the stuff he's saying in a moment.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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So is the summary here: desperately out-of-touch former famous game dev trying to remain relevant by saying outrageous things? Why is he doing this? Seems so random...
 
Oct 25, 2017
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So is the summary here: desperately out-of-touch former famous game dev trying to remain relevant by saying outrageous things? Why is he doing this? Seems so random...
From his RE video:
David Jaffe said:
In a private space, I feel that the more we can expose people to all kinds of ideas the better critical thinkers we will be. I appreciate that you may not agree with that part of my philosophy. Totally fair. But don't come at me like I'm some kind of bad guy idiot.
He doesn't like the tone he got in response to his video. You're free to criticize him as long as you're nice about it and don't curse, insult or joke about him. Does he hold himself to this standard? Of course not. He's...
David Jaffe said:
Your average person, AKA me, I don't live this shit okay. I'm sorry I gotta I'm sorry I I pissed in your cornflakes.
He is ignorant of the situation he's making internet rant videos about so therefore he is absolved of blame.
 
May 17, 2018
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Not surprising this comes from the guy who created one o the most misogynistic games I've ever played. God of War could be renamed "Toxic Masculinity: The Game".
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Everybody who defended Jaffe need to come collect y'alls man because... this ain't it.
I was staying out of this until he said this stupid ass moronic asinine incompetent ass bullshit. As if the idea of a white ethnostate can coexist without achieving such goals via violence.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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What a dense fucking asshole. I've never seen someone Milkshake Duck themselves so hard without provocation.
Not surprising this comes from the guy who created one o the most misogynistic games I've ever played. God of War could be renamed "Toxic Masculinity: The Game".
On second thought he's more like a "warm day-old smoothie duck".
 
Sep 3, 2018
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Not surprising this comes from the guy who created one o the most misogynistic games I've ever played. God of War could be renamed "Toxic Masculinity: The Game".
He got in a pretty heated argument with someone about that, actually lol. Someone posted a video of it in another thread.

EDIT: here it is:

 
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Oct 25, 2017
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We're done here.

This is the typical end game for the people who simply don't have the balls to stand up to wrong. Take the "intellectual high road", and claim that you will absolutely take action when the group in question crosses that last line. Typical ivory tower bullshit.

"I will be right there on the front lines with you guys if they go too far." No you will not be getting bloody when the time comes. You never had it in you in the first place. You don't have the empathy now, when modern atrocities stare you in the face, why would you then sir?
I think the problem is that the time has already come. Has Jafffe said anything about things like police brutality, voter suppression, basic inequalities like pay etc that have been perpetuated by assholes like Milo and to a greater extent Donald Trump because these people have been given a platform to express their despicable world view which then validates the assholes actions. Deplatforming works effectively. Free speech is a right, but there is no need to give horrible views a platform. Let him shout in the street but keep him away from the media so that he looks like the crazed lunatic that he is.
 
"I support the desire for a white ethnostate! Unless the means of establishing one are violent!"

Jaffe doesn't know that a peaceful ethnostate is a fantasy dreamworld.

If he is reading, look up stormfront. And focus on promoting movements that are actually benefiting the country, yeah? Some ideas are more valuable than others.
 
Nov 7, 2017
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Jaffe just comes off as pretty uneducated on some of these issues, which is fine for now I suppose, but he needs to learn, especially if he's going to talk about it. It's basically the tired old centrist meme of someone who doesn't understand how dog whistles work and doesn't understand the harm to discourse that people like Milo can do.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Jaffe just comes off as pretty uneducated on some of these issues, which is fine for now I suppose, but he needs to learn, especially if he's going to talk about it. It's basically the tired old centrist meme of someone who doesn't understand how dog whistles work and doesn't understand the harm to discourse that people like Milo can do.
Nah, dude just admitted on his livestream that he's been watching Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro videos and thinks they make a lot of good points. He's gone.
 

Fat4all

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,013
0
bork land
Ok what's the story behind this? Because it cracks me up that Kyle Bosman of all people would have a beef with.
.
Looking into the (entirely one-sided) beef Jaffe had with Kyle Bosman, and I discovered a PS I Love You panel from a couple years ago where Jaffe was still going on about it, and then, 20 minutes later in the panel, Shuhei Yoshida is on and he digresses out of nowhere to go on a small tangent about how much he loves Kyle and how funny he thinks he is and how he admires his heart and character. And honestly? It warmed my fucking heart to see him defend Kyle so wholeheartedly. Kyle has always been a force of good and kindness in the industry whereas you only hear of Jaffe anymore when he says something shitty.

The fact that some lighthearted ribbing about Drawn to Death in a comedy segment by Kyle could lead to years of toxicity and personal attacks from Jaffe speaks to each of their characters. Jaffe is a bitter old man with a huge chip on his shoulder because he just can't seem to get relevant again (except when he's acting up).
Kyle took a small jab at Drawn To Death and Jaffe took it badly, even years later
 
Dec 25, 2017
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We're done here.

This is the typical end game for the people who simply don't have the balls to stand up to wrong. Take the "intellectual high road", and claim that you will absolutely take action when the group in question crosses that last line. Typical ivory tower bullshit.

"I will be right there on the front lines with you guys if they go too far." No you will not be getting bloody when the time comes. You never had it in you in the first place. You don't have the empathy now, when modern atrocities stare you in the face, why would you then sir?
How do I upvote this?...
 
Oct 25, 2017
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You know, since we're on the subject, something I always wondered: was Jaffe pushed out of SSM after GoW2? I mean, I know he left and made his own studio, but I always thought it was a bit suspicious that someone who was at the height of their career would throw all that away to start from scratch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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The entire IDEA of a "white ethnostate" is inherently violent. What does Jaffe think on this subject, that all minorities will just say "oh yup you can have all of this to yourself we will see ourselves out"?
 
Boy, if I ever come at ya'll some day with some old bullshit like "you know what, I've been listening to a lot of Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro lately and I think we should be supportive and encouraging towards WHITE NATIONALISTS and CHILD PREDATORS and MISOGYNISTS. Their opinions are just as valid as yours" then just hammer a railroad spike into my face because it's all downhill from there.
 
Jaffe claims to be a white jew. 6 million of his ancestors didn't die in agony and we didn't fight a war against an inherently racist and violent ideology just so their descendent could grow to the ripe old age of 47 and be this narrow minded and ignorant.

What Jaffe is arguing for is literally the reason why we can't have it.
 
Oct 30, 2017
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Tilburg
A white ethnostate would in 100% of the cases lead to violence. How is that an appropriate view to have and how can someone defend that shit? The ironic thing is that he says that these white supremacists have to be put down if they incite violence. Inciting violence is exactly what these racist supremacists are doing. Is this guy blind?
 
Oct 25, 2017
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"They have the right to have violent ideas and promote them as long as these violent ideas don't lead to violence".

Let me rephrase it

"They have the right to want to burn something and tell people to burn something as long as it doesn't lead them to burn something".
 
Oct 25, 2017
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"They have the right to have violent ideas and promote them as long as these violent ideas don't lead to violence".

Let me rephrase it

"They have the right to want to burn something and tell people to burn something as long as it doesn't lead them to burn something".
Problem with Jaffe (Which I told him on Twitter) is that you can drive people to violence without actually calling for it. So according to him, everything is fine and dandy with someone like Milo spouting hate as long as he doesn't directly say 'go attack this group' and the only problem is with the person that takes his comments to heart and attacks someone and they should be arrested.

So according to Davids logic, Milo should still be free to continue saying his hateful rhetoric because he hasnt directly called for violence, even though his actions directly increase it happening.
 
Jun 6, 2018
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A white ethnostate would in 100% of the cases lead to violence. How is that an appropriate view to have and how can someone defend that shit? The ironic thing is that he says that these white supremacists have to be put down if they incite violence. Inciting violence is exactly what these racist supremacists are doing. Is this guy blind?
It's just how racists make themselves feel good about being "peaceful racists." Even if it didn't cause violence (it does) it's still harmful and wrong.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Problem with Jaffe (Which I told him on Twitter) is that you can drive people to violence without actually calling for it. So according to him, everything is fine and dandy with someone like Milo spouting hate as long as he doesn't directly say 'go attack this group' and the only problem is with the person that takes his comments to heart and attacks someone and they should be arrested.

So according to Davids logic, Milo should still be free to continue saying his hateful rhetoric because he hasnt directly called for violence, even though his actions directly increase it happening.
Legally speaking that’s correct though. The individual carrying out whatever violence or crime would still carry the vast vast majority of responsibility for what they themselves had done. It’s not the responsibility of the person who sparked the ideas that led to that crime, unless they actually incited violence or abuse. It’s still morally wrong to to take alt right viewpoints, but silencing them in a public forum even if they’re not being threatening in some way isn’t something that is okay to do because freedom of speech is valuable.

But all of that is kind of a side point, because that’s not what Jaffe is saying. He’s saying all viewpoints are worthy and equal because they promote discussion, and that is such utter tosh. At best it’s naive, but really it’s just thick.

Secondly he’d saying shutting down Milo on social media channels is limiting his freedom of speech. It’s not. Social Media channels are private and they can do whatever they want. No one has a right to a megaphone.

Also freedom of speech is not limited. It’s not just about inciting violence. It can be any kind of abuse. It doesn’t even have to be directed at an individual. Shouting “we hate gay people” in a public space is a hate crime and against the law.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Legally speaking that’s correct though. The individual carrying out whatever violence or crime would still carry the vast vast majority of responsibility for what they themselves had done. It’s not the responsibility of the person who sparked the ideas that led to that crime, unless they actually incited violence or abuse. It’s still morally wrong to to take alt right viewpoints, but silencing them in a public forum even if they’re not being threatening in some way isn’t something that is okay to do because freedom of speech is valuable.
While its true that people can react to harmless things that one person said and do something harmful (think of Charles Manson believing Helta Skelta was a call for a race war), there is a difference when it comes to people like Milo.

They are actively spreading ideology and beliefs that actively target protected groups of people (and their supporters) and while they may not directly come out and say "Attack this group", they are indirectly doing so and furthering these ideas.