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Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,743
Overall, I really enjoyed S2 but I feel like S1 was better, perhaps significantly so. S2 was much like a the typical format for a blockbuster film sequel - bigger, louder, more expensive, larger scope, and not necessarily the better for it. S1's smaller scope and more intimate character development worked to greater effect.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,634
Christ, what a downgrade after an already kinda middling first season. Somehow this contained almost all of the things I hate to see done in storytelling. Needlessly intricate layers upon layers of plots, timelines, fucking characters with mysterious intentions that are twisted upon a million times until a final reveal that makes everything even more boring. 10 episodes of actors taking about narratives, fates and whateverthefuckelse with barely an attempt to bring any of it together. Honestly, this to me is almost on par with some of the CW's attempts in television. Most of it barely makes any sense at first, and when it eventually does it doesn't make for interesting television. Solo already said it, it needed to be much more personal than whatever this is we got. It says a thing when the final episode is one of the best and half of it is still barely watchable. It wasn't a hate watch for me, as someone said yesterday, but it definitely is now. I'm skipping season 3, unless the reviews turn out to be stellar.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
That's not even the only thing they didn't come up with long-term!



Love to have both creators talk throughout the end of season 1 and beginning of season 2 about having this set plan for a whole entire story told over the course of a full 5 seasons, and the second season ends with both creators openly admitting they're still tossing darts at the wall to see what sticks and coming up with major twists the night before it's to be filmed. No wonder BSG fans and Lost fans have been getting fucking vietnam flashbacks recently, we've seen how this ends
Not to mention they also said they would answer every question raised in every season and they clearly did not do that here.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
I mostly enjoyed this season. There have been ups and downs, but even season 1 wasn't always impeccable so I'm fine with this. It's still easily the show currently on TV I am most excited to tune into every single time it's on. I didn't enjoy the finale as much as I hoped, but it overall it's a solid finisher, though there have been a couple weak spots. In particular, it's great that we got a "canon" response as to why the narrative was scrambled, in that Bernard's memories were scrambled, but in the end I don't feel this added a whole lot to the narrative. The flood at the end, Dolores getting shot, etc. would have all been a lot more meaningful had they just happened, without seeing those outcomes earlier. Seeing a good share of Westworld drown in a flood (even though the hosts inside were already "dead") would have been rather epic, but not so much when we knew it'll happen 9 episodes earlier.

My main problem, at this point, is that we're way too much into the unreliable narrator thing. Let's recap what happened so far and what we can expect in the future in this sense. We know timelines are scrambled: just because we see a scene after another it doesn't mean they are subsequential: in fact, they could be decades apart without the show doing a lot to explicitly state it (minimum differences in season 1, better hints in season 2). There is a digital world where all hosts (and some humans, apparently) exist as copies. A lot of humans are recreated as physical or virtual hosts. Bodies can be recreated. Hosts can be reanimated. Humans can be reanimated by inserting their "mind" into a host. Hosts can switch bodies (Halores). The viewer sees things that aren't real to human eyes, like the door to the Valley Beyond and Ford in Bernard's head.

There is one major problem with this if the producers don't calm down with the craziness: literally everything we watch could be bullshit at this point. Oh that superimportant scene? Lol it was a dream 30 years ago. That revelation in a dialogue? The character this guy was talking to was only in its head. Oh these two girls are up to something? It really isn't them, it's just some other host in their cloned bodies. We've seen unrefutable proof of a theory in Delos' official documents? That was only something Ford programmed a host to see, and the viewer saw through the hosts' eyes despite this never being mentioned specifically. We basically reached a point where literally nothing we see can potentially be trusted. I really hope season 3 will be more grounded in this sense, I don't want to wonder at every single scene who's a human, what timeline is this, which character is real or not, who's in whose body, and so on.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
I only I already mentioned it but I saw thisReddit post and I just had to reiterate how refreshing it was to see someone not dumb. It seems like Drederick E.O. Toye, the director for the last episode, actually realized that having humans hip firing while slowly walking to their deaths would, you know, look fucking dumb. I thought, "FINALLY" when I saw people acting like real life humans in the final.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,634
I remember how in the old place some people were joking that in the end everyone will be a host. Now it's kinda happening lol. Christ, Nolan.
 

Daneel_O

Member
Oct 28, 2017
294
My take is that William was found on the ground by security and put in that tent we find him in. He never actually got up and went down that elevator in this timeline. What we are seeing is something happening far in the future. I feel it's William testing himself, still trying to convince himself he can change. But he can't, he won't. We can't and won't either. It's kind of the point of this season in a nutshell. I think this is William as host trying to find HIS fidelity in order to not only live forever, but change as well. The smirk at the end I think is him realizing he won't ever change. Ever.

I also think from his last dialogue and previous hints ("it has nothing to do with control") that his idea was never to achieve immortality but to have a chance at redemption. He probably put himself in a host-loop (possibly spanning his whole time spent in the park since the first time?) to try and be a better version of himself, because he cannot accept that he is only a rabid dog that can be described with 1024 lines of code and the memory card that made his wife kill herself.

I am not sure why that would have to happen in real life though (or for what part of the simulation), nor why it seemed so important for him to get to the cradle at any cost his 'first' time.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,065
Funniest thing to me is that I'm not even sure which scene you're referring to. So many options lol
LoL fair point - there was more than one lazy scene with weird thematic or plot contradiction issues.
The one that I found the most egregious was the whole "super computer AI with the face of Delos's son as the exposition device" though.
 

SickBoy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
193
I don't think I'm *quite* as down on this season as some other people, but it is a bit disappointing after they stuck the landing with last season's "twist."

Between this and Legion, a disappointing year for sophomore shows. Both kind of had the same issue -- they leaned *heavy" on what helped them succeed in S1 (Westworld's twisty narrative and Legion's super cool style) and in the process they both felt like they spun their wheels for far too much of their seasons.

But both had a tough act to follow. I'll be checking out S3 of both, but I might need them to grab me pretty quick.
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,674
México
The more I think about this season, the worse it seems.

They had too many characters they clearly did not care for them, but brought them back, like Felix, Silvester, Elsie and Stubbs. They were mostly there, or to be part of some silly retcon that brought nothing to the story. And the quest for William, created by Ford, which amounted to nothing.

Also, the after credit sequence was their attempt at having their cake and eating it. Finally, William is a host...but in the future. And Lisa Joy confirmed that they will not be exploring that future in the next season.

Altough it had some highs, it was a dissapointing season for me.
 

ArmsofSleep

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,833
Washington DC
I'm glad I learned from LOST with this show.

Turn my brain off, enjoy the emotion cruxes of the show (the ghost nation episode!), and don't read into the mysteries. The writers aren't actually thinking these things through, so I won't either haha. It's a popcorn show. To be fair, it always was this, it just had diehard fans that denied that.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
I still think Season 2 beats Season 1 for me. The experiments in more focused episode formats was great. I enjoyed the trip to Shogun World, the Ake episode was awesome and adventurous (basically a whole episode in Lakota was crazy) and the Delos episode were all top notch. A lot of the others were great, too. The Delores / William focus near the beginning of the season was good. I loved Maeve's overall arc a ton.
 

Squiggely

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,142
Finally got around to watching the finale today and ...

Meh.

Gorgeous looking show with awful inconsequential twists and turns, episodes that just take far to long to get to the point.

I can't say i'm disappointed as I realized early on that it was a mess but finished it anyway in the hope it would turn around by the end. It didn't. I just had no interest in any of the characters in the finale and felt bored.

Will read the reviews for the next season first, possibly, maybe, but I don't feel like I need more.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
This season wasn't good. The Japan episode was fun to watch even if it was riddled with cliches. The Native American episode was phenomenal and the only genuinely good part of this season, working as a great standalone story.

Everything else was a convoluted mess designed to confuse with poor characters and plotlines. And the finale really was a culmination on all of those aspects in the worst possible way, even if some of it ultimately made sense.

But I guess this is what happens when you have 5 production stops (and direction changes) in 2 years.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,418
the finale was the first time i've felt like a show was 2deep4me. i don't know if that's a sign of me getting old, or the episode was bad. but i didn't walk away like "holy shit that was life changing!!!!!" or anything, it was just a lot of "huh? why did they do that?" and confusion of the like.

this season wasn't as good as S1. the best ep was far and away episode 8. i could watch that a few times over.
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,674
México
I would prefer if Westworld was a series of anthology stories taking place inside the parks. Stories about hosts, guests and the personel. This whole season long mysteries are just not working.
 

dmoe

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,290
I would prefer if Westworld was a series of anthology stories taking place inside the parks. Stories about hosts, guests and the personel. This whole season long mysteries are just not working.
I kinda wish it ended after 2. That was a beautiful finale, and was so well done. But watching 9 episodes of a show not knowing what is happening just to see the 1 episode where you can finally understand it is kinda annoying. I would love ONE timeline.

I really need to watch season 2 again now and try and understand when Dolores was Hale. That was the only piece that was confusing, trying to think back at WHEN we are watching.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Finally caught up on the last... 6 or 7 episodes. Stopped because I had a kid and also it was kind of boring but I am glad I did since the show is so much better without following along on the internet. Went back and read the thread and the negativity is really draining (even if it isn't wrong). Also I feel the theorycrafting kind of ruined the first season and to a lesser extent the second (because it is clear they are trying to make it unpredictable this time). At any rate, some shitty hot takes:

1) Anthony Hopkins alone elevates the entire show even when he is barely in it. I don't think it is a coincidence that the season gets better the minute he is shown on screen
2) The show can be pretty bad, but the highs are so high that I will forgive anything they do
3) Hope we aren't done w/ Ghost Nation, because episode 8 was incredible. Don't see how that can continue though. It will be a shame if the show loses its western theme entirely but it seems unavoidable
4) I am so glad the show eventually explains all its self-indulgent mysteries unlike other shows (twin peaks)
5) Felt like a series finale. Hope it isn't all downhill from here
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I would prefer if Westworld was a series of anthology stories taking place inside the parks. Stories about hosts, guests and the personel. This whole season long mysteries are just not working.
Honestly a pulp fiction esque season that built up to shit going off at the end so as to give us time to develop characters would have been incredible. I'd be so down for that.
 

17 Seconds

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,589
i thought the last 2 episodes were a little underwhelming, but i still liked this season better than the first.
 

OutofMana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,067
California
The whole time line divergence was really bad this season. I don't know how long the show is going to run but that whole season structure is totally going to be a thing right? I really wanted to give the show the benefit of the doubt since I really enjoyed the first season. Idk, this season overall was just underwhelming.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,116
Well that was a bit of a mess. It's funny to me how it feels like they meander and drag shit on for most of the season and then stuff ridiculous amounts of stuff in the finale. With Elsie seemingly dead I'm pretty much done, literally no other likeable characters left for me.

Kylo Rey definitely salvaged this season for me though, thanks mate.
 
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Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Just got around to watching the last 3 episodes. I really wish I didn't know Deloris would live since the thread about her actress signing on for the third season was titled that exactly that, right before this season even started airing. I said in the thread it just spoiled that she's safe, and people replied with, "duh." I bet if I didn't know and watched episode 10 I would have thought she was dead, at least as that actress, until the end where they revealed she was revived.

I will have to find out what is going on with MIB, because the post credits kinda confused me. Eh, maybe I'll just drop it. I can wait until the next season, if all of this was just to have season 2 episode 8 exist, it was worth it. Maeve seemed so cool at the end of that, then reality kicked in with the following episodes. Maeve should probably stay dead, I thought she was going to battle with the mind control of the weaponized Clementine, but it just made her look silly.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,116
6 seasons sounds like torture with this cast of characters. To be honest S2's finale already gave off a vibe that it could have been done.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
I just hope they make season 3 a more linear narrative. In the end, I don't feel season 2's scrambled timeline did a lot for the enjoyment of the show, having to wonder every 5 minutes "but when is this" trying to look for clues wasn't particularly engaging, and the payoff as to why it was all messed up (Bernard scrambled his memories, yo) wasn't really that satisfying. I enjoyed a lot of things this season, but it feels they tried to overcomplicate a relatively simple story. The ride was great, and there were some legit incredible episodes (4, 8 and 9 mainly), but I don't want this to end up like late-Lost or Helix, basically mistery for the sake of mistery.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
If you're like me and you wanted the crazy remix of Dolores' theme when she reveals she duplicated Hale, it's here (at 2:52):

 

Hiraeth

Member
Mar 16, 2018
540
London, UK
Finished it last night. Gotta say I wasn't really satisfied with the conclusion. Highlights of the series were the episode with Ake which was beautiful and the dips into Shogun World which were very well done and had a lot of potential to go further than they did.
 

Killthee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,169
Finished it last night. Gotta say I wasn't really satisfied with the conclusion. Highlights of the series were the episode with Ake which was beautiful and the dips into Shogun World which were very well done and had a lot of potential to go further than they did.
That episode was amazing. In 1 hour I somehow ended up caring more about Akecheta and his journey than all the other plot lines occurring around him. It didn't even hit me till the finale. I was watching it and felt nothing when Bernard shot Dolores, or when Elsie died, or when Clementine laid to waste a hundred host, or when Maeve sacrificed herself so her daughter could cross over. Then they panned over from Maeve's daughter to Kohana and suddenly a wave of emotions hit me. Wish the other plot lines were that strong.
 

El Toporo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,121
Boardwalk Empire did much worse iirc, and it got 5 seasons too.
Didn't Boardwalk Empire do much better when it comes to live ratings? Yes, I know you can't really compare these ratings due to the rise of things like HBO Now and changing habits among viewers. I'm sure someone has taken a general, comprehensive look at how the shows did and it's certainly possible Boardwalk Empire, even taking all things into account, did much worse.
Show is safe anyway.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,634
IMO the biggest letdown of this show is Nolan's lack of trust in his own phenomenal cast. It's not a coincidence the two universally praised episodes were carried by actors who were finally given some good material.
 

StriderHiryu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
238
Very disappointing finale and season. Thoroughly confused by the entire season and finale and didn't really care about any of the characters come the end of it. As others have said, the Akcheta episode was the only real highlight of the season for me.

Don't think I will watch the next one, as this season I found incredibly dull and overly complex. A real shame because I really enjoyed the first season - Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris in particular.