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Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
They answered almost everything in the show.
The only mystery that remain in season 1 is the "wolf" and it was back on season 2 (and ake saw an horse).
About season 2 ending i still don't understand how Stubbs could be a host, he was saved by Ghost Nation. For me he used host vocabulary by analogy.

About season 3 i think it will be more straightforward BUT you can be sure Nolan will play a lot with "who is an host and who is human". Dolores can create hosts now so....
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
They answered almost everything in the show.
The only mystery that remain in season 1 is the "wolf" and it was back on season 2 (and ake saw an horse).
About season 2 ending i still don't understand how Stubbs could be a host, he was saved by Ghost Nation. For me he used host vocabulary by analogy.

About season 3 i think it will be more straightforward BUT you can be sure Nolan will play a lot with "who is an host and who is human". Dolores can create hosts now so....

I've said this before but I really hope season 3 will be more straight-forward in the narrative, not everything has to be a mistery. As of now, we have humans resuscitating as hosts. Live humans with host clones in the real life. Hosts in a digital world. Hosts not necessarily dying after apparently fatal shots. Hosts in other hosts' bodies. Humans disguised as hosts. Timeline scrambling. People (or things, like the door) only appearing in a host's mind but we as viewers see them anyway (we're all hosts, lmao). We reached a point where we could see, say, Bernand chat with Dolores, and we wouldn't know when this is, whether they both exist in the scene, which one is human (maybe Dolores was based on a human long ago? is that Bernard or Arnold?), who is in whose body, whether this is in real life or in a digital simulation, etc. etc.. "This character was a host all along!" and "This was actually a different timeline!" can only be shocking for so long.
 

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
I've said this before but I really hope season 3 will be more straight-forward in the narrative, not everything has to be a mistery. As of now, we have humans resuscitating as hosts. Live humans with host clones in the real life. Hosts in a digital world. Hosts not necessarily dying after apparently fatal shots. Hosts in other hosts' bodies. Humans disguised as hosts. Timeline scrambling. People (or things, like the door) only appearing in a host's mind but we as viewers see them anyway (we're all hosts, lmao). We reached a point where we could see, say, Bernand chat with Dolores, and we wouldn't know when this is, whether they both exist in the scene, which one is human (maybe Dolores was based on a human long ago? is that Bernard or Arnold?), who is in whose body, whether this is in real life or in a digital simulation, etc. etc.. "This character was a host all along!" and "This was actually a different timeline!" can only be shocking for so long.

But...it's on purpose. It's show cornerstone: to question our reality. It's their stuff and Nolan said that it's absolutely normal to be lost or not understand everything BUT he said this show is made for people who can go deeper into a narrative, searching clues...
Nolan already said he won't change that. He said they may not be multiple timelines next time BUT it will remain complex and he don't want to change that. He saw the criticism about the complexity but he will not change

=/
 

ForgeForsaken

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,978
20 minutes into the future.
They already have answered a lot. If they answered everything now it would be like giving away the murderer in the first half hour of a murder mystery movie/novel. Gotta save some good reveals for later.
I think the problem is it's a largely a forced mystery. We the viewers are frequently more in the dark than the characters on the show. Now there are genuine mystery elements to the show but it frequently feels like they are forcing too many things to be mysterious. The problem is further complicated by the numerous viewpoints. We follow Bernard who is going through the discovery process but we also follow other characters who are not.
 

Navid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,018
Finished viewing the last episode of Season 2 today, the season overall was underwhelming but the ending was at least decent. Shame that it fell back on every other trope of similar stories that deal with humans and their creations.

Wouldn't mind it if they ended it here to be honest.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
But...it's on purpose. It's show cornerstone: to question our reality. It's their stuff and Nolan said that it's absolutely normal to be lost or not understand everything BUT he said this show is made for people who can go deeper into a narrative, searching clues...
Nolan already said he won't change that. He said they may not be multiple timelines next time BUT it will remain complex and he don't want to change that. He saw the criticism about the complexity but he will not change

=/

I understand this, and I enjoy this. Some of the reveals from season 1 are incredible, I liked many from season 2 (eg. William's daughter) too. But questioning reality is fine in a show that is about hosts that are almost indistinguishable from humans: it's like the core concept of the show, a fictional world that feels real. That, however, doesn't mean that everything we see has to be "is this real or not". We reached a point where William could hold an apple in his hand, and you wouldn't know when is it happening, if he's a host, if the apple is real or in its head, and so on. There has to be mistery, but there also has to be a limit eventually at what things you can trust. For all we know, season 1 and season 2 could have all been a giant simulation and it never actually happened. It's possible, and it would be misterious. It doesn't mean it would be satisfying, though. Reminds me of the end of a short-lived crime series a couple years ago that I won't mention because it would be a giant spoiler, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about if you've seen it.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Yep. The worst trope this show could have tried to survive on is "twists for twists' sake", and this season showed they're doubling down on that approach
Exactly. Season 3 should be about getting us invested in their characters so I give a damn about anything going on in this show. Mysteries for mysteries are lame especially when so many of them end in unsatisfactory ways (like williams have the past two seasons, which is hilarious to me but also not entertaining in a way they were going for)
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
Honestly, that ending episode was wack and the only thing that saved it from being mind-screw nonsense was that that the tease for Robots Rebellion next season could be rad.

At this point I assume that literally everyone is a robot and humanity died out long ago. The people who think they're human are just other robots who no longer recall that they're also robots.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Honestly, that ending episode was wack and the only thing that saved it from being mind-screw nonsense was that that the tease for Robots Rebellion next season could be rad.

At this point I assume that literally everyone is a robot and humanity died out long ago. The people who think they're human are just other robots who no longer recall that they're also robots.
Don't forget #fordplanneditall
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,625
That was an enjoyable finale, even with it having the problems that most episodes this season have had. The scenes in the Forge were neat and I'm way into the Dolores and Bernard dynamic continuing into the next season with them as opposing sides of this revolution. After two seasons in Westworld a larger focus on the outside world could be interesting.

The showrunners always talked about how Westworld would be a core aspect to the show but I wonder if that was a lie or if the show will actually spend a significant amount of time back there.
 

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
Honestly, that ending episode was wack and the only thing that saved it from being mind-screw nonsense was that that the tease for Robots Rebellion next season could be rad.

At this point I assume that literally everyone is a robot and humanity died out long ago. The people who think they're human are just other robots who no longer recall that they're also robots.

When WW was announced on HBO , Nolan said it will be the story of a new specie and the story will go VERY FAR than 30 years timelines and he even hints at "centuries".
So...I wasn't surprised about the direction of the show. They said it before S1 was revealed.
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
If you're like me and you wanted the crazy remix of Dolores' theme when she reveals she duplicated Hale, it's here (at 2:52):


I've been pretty down on this show but one thing I have to say I love about the show is the music. Ramin Djawadi has a really impressive, broad range, and the way themes are edited into the shows he works on really add to those shows in a meaningful, interesting way. I like Michael Giachinno, but there are a lot of times on Lost where the music is used to really beat you over the head and hammer home that THIS IS AN EMOTIONAL MOMENT. it is effective the first couple of times, but after you catch on it starts to feel a little manipulative. Westworld is less the case, but the way themes change slightly and are woven into the editing of GoT as a means of foreshadowing is fantastic. I really like the idea of using music as a means of information, rather than instruction.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Following way too close to LOST for my comfort. Fool me once, etc.
They actually -did- bring in Damon to help during one of the season 2 "fuck what are we doing, we need to change direction" production breaks. I feel like his influence is clear.

Though imitating Lost, while frustrating, is also somewhat a proven formula for success.

The big difference between WW and Lost though is that this show is much more up its own ass and esoteric, which alienates a lot of people.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
They actually -did- bring in Damon to help during one of the season 2 "fuck what are we doing, we need to change direction" production breaks. I feel like his influence is clear.

Though imitating Lost, while frustrating, is also somewhat a proven formula for success.

The big difference between WW and Lost though is that this show is much more up its own ass and esoteric, which alienates a lot of people.
Yeah, everything else is sacrificed in the name of character moments and plot. This could be good, but the plot is a giant mess at the moment as far as I can tell and you have to earn the character moments, which LOST kind of did. This still feels like a 2 season prologue.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,237
Wouldn't Lee Sizemore sacrificing himself invalidate the conclusion of the Forge that humans are simplistic and dominated entirely by their core drive to survive at all costs? I got the impression that Ford (and maybe Arnold) wanted to create a form of life that was truly free (referring to the dialogue about being able to change it's own drives), but Lee was able to override his.

Maybe that kind of thing will be covered in season 3.
 

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,655
Wouldn't Lee Sizemore sacrificing himself invalidate the conclusion of the Forge that humans are simplistic and dominated entirely by their core drive to survive at all costs? I got the impression that Ford (and maybe Arnold) wanted to create a form of life that was truly free (referring to the dialogue about being able to change it's own drives), but Lee was able to override his.

Maybe that kind of thing will be covered in season 3.
I've seen some say that this is a contradiction and use it as a complaint; I've seen others describe it as still something in Sizemore's "code" and that he's still not making a free choice.

I like the idea that humans are more complex than the machines think we are and that there are inexplicable changes that happen to a person. I think Season 3 and 4 will really explore whether or not all humans are just simple algorithms with no room for true change or maybe that humans actually do have free will of some kind. "Breaking loops" seems to be the overarching theme of the series. First for robots, and then maybe for humans. But we're on Book 2 of 5 books, so I am excited to see what happens next regardless. I think "humans are destined to make the same choices no matter what" is a narrative dead end so I'm hoping that there will be more Sizemores and maybe Maeve will be the champion for the humans in the way that Dolores is the champion for the robots. And Bernard is the mediator between the two.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,237
I've seen some say that this is a contradiction and use it as a complaint; I've seen others describe it as still something in Sizemore's "code" and that he's still not making a free choice.

I like the idea that humans are more complex than the machines think we are and that there are inexplicable changes that happen to a person. I think Season 3 and 4 will really explore whether or not all humans are just simple algorithms with no room for true change or maybe that humans actually do have free will of some kind. "Breaking loops" seems to be the overarching theme of the series. First for robots, and then maybe for humans. But we're on Book 2 of 5 books, so I am excited to see what happens next regardless. I think "humans are destined to make the same choices no matter what" is a narrative dead end so I'm hoping that there will be more Sizemores and maybe Maeve will be the champion for the humans in the way that Dolores is the champion for the robots. And Bernard is the mediator between the two.
I don't see it as a problem with the show. If anything the 180 of his character (which I thought was more gradual than it appeared) coming in the same episode in which Bernard lamented the simplistic algorithmic nature of human behaviour was intentional and a way of showing that his reasoning, and that of the forge, is false.

Human history is filled to the brim with this kind of philosophical talk as well endless reams of understanding on behavioural patterns. Hell, Buddhism is all about understanding those kind of things and freeing yourself from the limitations of the self.

But I don't think this show lends itself well to long-winded discussions on those topics.
 

Winterblink

Member
Oct 26, 2017
142
I absolutely loved this season, even if others I know personally did not. Yes every episode was absolutely packed and you could barely blink for fear of missing some critical line or detail. The show continues to be one of my all time favorites, can't wait for the next season.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,117
Was Lee's death meant to be a comic relief moment? I mean it makes no sense but the vibe of that speech..
 
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duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,158
Singapore
Wouldn't Lee Sizemore sacrificing himself invalidate the conclusion of the Forge that humans are simplistic and dominated entirely by their core drive to survive at all costs? I got the impression that Ford (and maybe Arnold) wanted to create a form of life that was truly free (referring to the dialogue about being able to change it's own drives), but Lee was able to override his.

Maybe that kind of thing will be covered in season 3.
I don't think so. Lee's "core drive" was to be an idiot who's so far up his own ass he can't see daylight. That's exactly how he went out. Instead of doing something productive or meaningful, he wasted his life in a blaze of glory quoting his own badly written cliched lines. Probably not what the writers were going for intentionally, but I think that rationalization works out!

Was Lee's death meant to be a comic relief moment? I mean it makes sense but the vibe of that speech..
Every scene he's in is a comic relief moment. Intended or otherwise. Lol.
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,255
You know... there is such a thing as being too far up your own ass.

I realize I don't have like a single second to give a shit and try and understand the show better. At some point rather than being intrigued and hooked in the mystery its like.... fuck you I'll just watch a show that values my time and tells a regular ass story with out cross timeline bullshit.
 

Dany

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,063
seattle
WOw. so was super fucking critical of the first three or four episodes of this season. It was just so drawn out and completely up it's own ass in a bad way. But there were a lot of great turns so far. I am two episodes behind and I am very impressed in how this season has turned out. I will ignore the rest of this thread. But gosh darn it sure does have a lot to redeem it. Maeve is fucking queen.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,158
Singapore
You know... there is such a thing as being too far up your own ass.

I realize I don't have like a single second to give a shit and try and understand the show better. At some point rather than being intrigued and hooked in the mystery its like.... fuck you I'll just watch a show that values my time and tells a regular ass story with out cross timeline bullshit.
I agree, but at the same time, it's a little ironic that your avatar is from Crimson Shroud, because it's probably the Matsuno game next to Vagrant Story that does the most to mislead the audience narratively instead of telling a regular ass story. :)

I think it's fun sometimes, but Westworld's problem is that they did it for one season, and then tried to follow up on it because of expectations, but didn't have a solid a deceptive narrative plan as they did the first time round, so it felt like misleading direction for the sake of it rather than something more organically tied to the themes for the season. The fake out scene with MiB in the elevator loading his gun while Bernard was with Dolores in the Forge control room was probably the worst offender in the season finale. There's no reason to edit it that way other than to deliberately confuse the audience without saying anything worthwhile at all.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,117
I still think the biggest issue the show has is that none of the characters are that compelling or even likeable. I've heard it over and over again from people that they literally don't care about anyone in Westworld. Characters die constantly and there's zero impact most of the time because no one is emotionally invested in them, and also due to the fact that half of them come back as bots anyway. It's extremely hard to carry a show through multiple seasons when there's no one to root or care about for the audience, no matter how good everything else is.
 
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jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I still think the biggest issue the show has is that none of the characters that compelling or even likeable. I've heard it over and over again from people that they literally don't care about anyone in Westworld. Characters die constantly and there's zero impact most of the time because no one is emotionally invested in them, and also due to the fact that half of them come back as bots anyway. It's extremely hard to carry a show through multiple seasons when there's no one to root or care about for the audience, no matter how good everything else is.
Exactly. Even when Lost's story and mysteries started crumbling apart, the show still had about 20 characters you were genuinely invested in and wanted to see their arcs. I feel more for a character we got one episode on than I do about literally anyone else on this show (akechata). A big problem with their development of characters has to do with obscuring their intentions/motives/story for the sake of the mystery which means we can't relate or understand most of what anyone is doing half the time up until the last episode. Worse yet, the mysteries are just not very exciting or enticing so essentially we wait all season to understand what the fuck anyone is even up to only for them to be rather lame or trite (how many times are we going to get he "hes/shes a host" or "ford planned everything"?).

They actually -did- bring in Damon to help during one of the season 2 "fuck what are we doing, we need to change direction" production breaks. I feel like his influence is clear.

Though imitating Lost, while frustrating, is also somewhat a proven formula for success.

The big difference between WW and Lost though is that this show is much more up its own ass and esoteric, which alienates a lot of people.
Jesus that makes so much sense. Tbh if I knew this I likely would have stopped watching then and there because I am an adamant opponent of lindelof and refuse to watch anything hes touched.
 

dead souls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,317
I still think the biggest issue the show has is that none of the characters that compelling or even likeable. I've heard it over and over again from people that they literally don't care about anyone in Westworld. Characters die constantly and there's zero impact most of the time because no one is emotionally invested in them, and also due to the fact that half of them come back as bots anyway. It's extremely hard to carry a show through multiple seasons when there's no one to root or care about for the audience, no matter how good everything else is.

I couldn't agree more. I literally don't care what happens to any character on this show.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Jesus that makes so much sense. Tbh if I knew this I likely would have stopped watching then and there because I am an adamant opponent of lindelof and refuse to watch anything hes touched.
On the flipside, the Akechata episode was almost assuredly something he brought to the table (character highlight episodes like that are basically a signature of his at this point), so I'm happy for his involvement (and the entire season being produced) just for that. Since on its own that is a pretty great hour long story.
 

Cass_Se

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,124
Being in more of a negative camp I don't really have much to say regarding the finale that hadn't been said before. Season 2 was rather disappointing and continued to exemplify season 1's biggest flaws. The show is it's greatest enemy - the concept is highly interesting and they can pull off some great episodes using it (Riddle of the Sphinx, Kiksuya), but the core plot is full of cardboard cut-out characters that function more as a plot device rather than actual characters and their arcs are just uninteresting. The fact that the most well received episodes this season were sidestories says a lot.

My biggest issue would be what showrunners teased beforehand - that there would be twists, but since reddit figured out every season 1 twist in advance they will be much more abrupt so as to still be surprising. Season 1 was a neat puzzlebox, one that's emotionally cold as it is concerned more with the puzzles rather than characters, but one in which all the pieces neatly fit together by the end. Season 2 was still a puzzlebox, but rather than building up to some greater narrative and revelations the mysteries are built on obscuring the truth, making the narrative intentionally confusing and lying to the viewer. That's disappointing and a huge part why this season feels that much more aimless.

Generally, the show is classic Nolan, be it Christopher or Jonathan. Premise of the show is interesting, the plot presented is somewhat complicated, but it feels much more intricate due to narrative framing choices. Westworld season 2 however feels like the point where that was taken too far. Intertwining character viewpoints and timelines jumping haphazardly forwards and backwards in time while obscuring key information and character motivations were intentionally overtly complicated without enhancing the narrative and that made it that much less enjoyable to the viewer.

Ultimately, I will still watch season 3, probably. It's entertaining at times, much like a Kojima game is entertaining at it's most when the plot goes loco and you can do nothing more than revel in the insanity. Only in Westworld instead of plot contrivances you've got narrative contrivances. They're on a similar level when it comes to surface thematic depth. I liked the finale in that how confusing it was was charming, but as resolution to half-baked season 2 arcs it's unsatisfying and I fully expect season 3 to go further that way, so I'm welcome to more Westworld, for now. I just wish season 3 finally has enough plot to span the entire season, because both in season 1 and season 2 same plotlines could have been told in half the episodes without losing much fidelity. A man can dream.

That said, it's still a pretty show and the music is great. I hope they can keep up at least to some level the production values if they get budget cuts in face of falling ratings.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,158
Singapore
On the flipside, the Akechata episode was almost assuredly something he brought to the table (character highlight episodes like that are basically a signature of his at this point), so I'm happy for his involvement (and the entire season being produced) just for that. Since on its own that is a pretty great hour long story.
Eh, is there a source for Lindelof being involved in Westworld at all? He isn't credited for any episode, he isn't an executive or consulting producer for the season. This is actually the first I've heard of it.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Eh, is there a source for Lindelof being involved in Westworld at all? He isn't credited for any episode, he isn't an executive or consulting producer for the season. This is actually the first I've heard of it.
The source is me. First hand info from writers who were in the room.

It's extremely common for people to help out on different shows or movies without taking credits to fix problems. Some people devote most of their careers to it. You would be surprised at the different things certain people have worked on that most people will never know about.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,158
Singapore
The source is me. First hand info from writers who were in the room.

It's extremely common for people to help out on different shows or movies without taking credits to fix problems. Some people devote most of their careers to it. You would be surprised at the different things certain people have worked on that most people will never know about.
Oh cool. I just wasn't sure if you were presenting it as new information or referencing something that was previously reported. I don't remember reading about it anywhere, so I had to ask! :)
 

Dany

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,063
seattle
Okay, season 2 was pretty okay. Last few episodes were a wimper. Maeve did good but beyond that I really feel little involvement
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,237
I don't think so. Lee's "core drive" was to be an idiot who's so far up his own ass he can't see daylight. That's exactly how he went out. Instead of doing something productive or meaningful, he wasted his life in a blaze of glory quoting his own badly written cliched lines. Probably not what the writers were going for intentionally, but I think that rationalization works out!


Every scene he's in is a comic relief moment. Intended or otherwise. Lol.
It was stated that survival at all costs was the primary drive of humans. That we're passengers acting on behalf of our DNA that needs to replicate (I extrapolated the last bit from non Westworld sources that I think they were referring to).

The individual needs to survive (water, food) first because if they don't then the human race doesn't (reproduction). Lee overrode the primal drive for self-survival.

While doing so isn't common humans do have the ability to do things like that. They also have the ability to become aware of their own behaviour patterns (loops) and alter them through effort.

So in my opinion they really should get a refund on the forge because it really overlooked significant aspects of human neurology. But then again it was working with simulations rather than the actual thing.
 
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Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,255
I agree, but at the same time, it's a little ironic that your avatar is from Crimson Shroud, because it's probably the Matsuno game next to Vagrant Story that does the most to mislead the audience narratively instead of telling a regular ass story. :)

I think it's fun sometimes, but Westworld's problem is that they did it for one season, and then tried to follow up on it because of expectations, but didn't have a solid a deceptive narrative plan as they did the first time round, so it felt like misleading direction for the sake of it rather than something more organically tied to the themes for the season. The fake out scene with MiB in the elevator loading his gun while Bernard was with Dolores in the Forge control room was probably the worst offender in the season finale. There's no reason to edit it that way other than to deliberately confuse the audience without saying anything worthwhile at all.

Exactly, its convoluted for the sake of convoluted, no in the pursuit of telling a specific satisfying story. Crimson Shroud Spoilers
uses some trickery to tell a story that is fun and when the reveals happen like the Shroud revealing.. oh schnap fuckers I'm out! I'm free muahahahaha" that's fun and a "oh yeah!!!" moment

Where as westworld and its constant, ooh is this character here? or here? maybe here? maybe they arent really talking to that character, are they there? they here? when are they? are they here now? here now? here then? ooo? ooo? what is it? eh eh? are they here and real now are they not here and fake then? eh eh? what is it smart guy? All towards an end of whatever the fuck. If viewers are down its no wonder cause at some point, its not interesting, its just bullshit.

Is just stacking nonsensical bullshit over and over.
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
What if they really go batshit crazy and have duplicates of the same character at different points of their life? For example, Ford is helping the hosts (in his own controlling way) but he wasn't always. He changed his mind about them at some point between Arnold's death and his own death. What if one faction has a enlisted a version of Ford that he stored offsite, vs another faction that has a "rolled back" version where he's just as intelligent, but makes different life choices?

See how crazy you can take this?


As David Chen said on the latest DW podcast, the show has set up a soup of a story where

a) any dead character you see can be revived
b) any character you see is not necessarily that character

Some may find that engaging, but for a lot of us that makes things utterly unappealing.

And as Joanna Robinson reminded us, even if you were into the exploration of sci-fi concepts more than relating to characters and emotional catharsis, the fractured storytelling gets in the way of that as well.

Earlier in the season William's daughter had promised him a fate worse than physical torture at the hands of Ghost Nation, and she achieved it by running an "immortal" William through a prison of his own sins like Sisyphus. However most people didn't really catch that cause they were spending their mental effort figuring out what the hell happened. It doesn't feel like the end of that characters S2 arc, it feels like another strange thing that happened.

Concepts like human consciousness being relatively simple to recreate. I personally wasn't convinced but would have liked the show to have explored that interesting concept. Instead they just mention it as fact in a 3 minute scene, and then move on to more time fuckery.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
On the flipside, the Akechata episode was almost assuredly something he brought to the table (character highlight episodes like that are basically a signature of his at this point), so I'm happy for his involvement (and the entire season being produced) just for that. Since on its own that is a pretty great hour long story.

Oh wow, I didn't even think about the similarity between some of the character focused episodes I loved this season and Lindelof. The character focused episodes on Leftovers were a huge part of why that show was great.
 

okdakor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,618
France
Maybe i'm insane and i have bad taste but season 1 was more confusing for me.

We won't know until Nolan & Joy give the answer in a reddit thread...

Lol, are you guys testing Kylo Rey for fidelity?

During the last 2-3 episodes, you could see that a lot of posters had him on their "ignore list" or just tried to not answer him and relaunch the cycle... and now he's trying to convince himself he isn't a bot.
 

FullMetalx

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
811
This show/season are amazing. Hope for more of the same. This is maybe the first show I feel compelled to follow all the way through week by week. It's like the first show I can say it's "my kind of show" I just love everything about it
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
S2 was ok but kind of annoying
Timelines gimmick is boring now. Especially when it's even harder to follow.
Delos corp are fucking clowns. Absolute fucking clowns. No way these people are trillionaires. They're worse than stormtroopers.
Shogun world was stupid fanservice filler, thank god it didn't last more than one ep considering how pointless it was in the end. And that e3 cliffhanger lmao, fuck that shit.
Episodes 1 and 2 were atrociously slow, felt like more of the same of S1. Holy shit how they dragged it.

Glad I binged it.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
What if they really go batshit crazy and have duplicates of the same character at different points of their life? For example, Ford is helping the hosts (in his own controlling way) but he wasn't always. He changed his mind about them at some point between Arnold's death and his own death. What if one faction has a enlisted a version of Ford that he stored offsite, vs another faction that has a "rolled back" version where he's just as intelligent, but makes different life choices?

See how crazy you can take this?


As David Chen said on the latest DW podcast, the show has set up a soup of a story where

a) any dead character you see can be revived
b) any character you see is not necessarily that character

Some may find that engaging, but for a lot of us that makes things utterly unappealing.

And as Joanna Robinson reminded us, even if you were into the exploration of sci-fi concepts more than relating to characters and emotional catharsis, the fractured storytelling gets in the way of that as well.

Earlier in the season William's daughter had promised him a fate worse than physical torture at the hands of Ghost Nation, and she achieved it by running an "immortal" William through a prison of his own sins like Sisyphus. However most people didn't really catch that cause they were spending their mental effort figuring out what the hell happened. It doesn't feel like the end of that characters S2 arc, it feels like another strange thing that happened.

Concepts like human consciousness being relatively simple to recreate. I personally wasn't convinced but would have liked the show to have explored that interesting concept. Instead they just mention it as fact in a 3 minute scene, and then move on to more time fuckery.
Thats literally just different flavors of the same twist of "hes a host" which this show has already managed to run dry and then some in 2 seasons. I also totally agree about the lack of going into depth with its themes. Exploring consciousness would have been an amazing endeavor but instead we get "oh its just magic hats". I wanted this show to be blade runner/ex machina meets west world but instead we got the walking dead meets lost.
 

Zelenogorsk

Banned
Mar 1, 2018
1,567
It do find it enjoyable to have the last episode of the season just be a rapid series of reveals (at least it makes for a fun watch) but I'm not sure it's worth 9 straight hours of no stakes or tension because I have no idea what's going on until the credits roll on the last episode.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,805
Sheffield, UK
I've forgotten what the Delos team were rushing to prevent. If they wanted to save the guest data, why didn't they storm the forge instead of the gate to heaven? If they wanted to prevent hosts escaping, why, when the guest data is more valuable?
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I am so happy Preston Jacobs (and ostensibly ed harris) took issue with delores and william teaming up for this episode for literally no reason what so ever, and seemed to be as confused by it as I was. God the writing sometimes is just awful. Like they literally didn't even try to set up any cogent reason for why either of these characters would team up or trust eachother even if for just a horse ride. Did they both magically know that there would be security at the forge? Did they both magically stop being immune to being killed? Did westworld security stop being so inept that the two of them would need eachother? What use would a 60 year old man with 7-8 bullet wounds and a knife gouged arm present to delores who is an aim bot?

Seriously this one part annoyed me just about as much as anything this season. Probably on par with delores killing the confederates for absolutely no reason either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGPcUq4Hts
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
I've forgotten what the Delos team were rushing to prevent. If they wanted to save the guest data, why didn't they storm the forge instead of the gate to heaven? If they wanted to prevent hosts escaping, why, when the guest data is more valuable?

I'm still confused on why they didn't send in their best guys to contain the volatile situation instantly when their raison d'être was so vulnerable. They refused to send in help to procure the data, opting instead to force the team on the ground, largely consisting of mooks and a corporate suit, to scour the totality of Westworld under great duress for 1 goddamn robot. I guess no one cares enough to secure the goddamn Forge, this massive piece of technology that, imo, makes the sentient robots in Westworld look 20th century.

Like now that we know how massive their "little" side project was - where they basically created The Architect from the Matrix and have stored the sum existence of 4+ million rich ass humans - then it makes even less sense than it did before. It was simpler times when we all assumed Charlotte was just trying to sneak out some hosts data for maybe another hostile corporate entity (in the worst way possible).