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Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,378
First, let me get it out the way here by saying the title of this thread is not hyperbole, and if you think it is, perhaps you should be browsing other topics. While fueled by recent events, such as the assured promise social rights for women will indeed be at risk of being thrown back decades, those who know my posts know I speak of America's issues dating much further back, long before many posters here were born. So then, with the preface out of the way, I'd like to take time to go over concepts and themes that I believe will cripple America, and are either choking the life out of it now, or will asphyxiate it in the future.

One has a nightmare of a job to even begin to talk about America's tsunami of problems, so I guess I'll start with the macro-scale ones that afflict societies beyond the States, and then scale down. The first issue facing this country is climate; as the per capita problem maker in the world, America is presently hellbent on destroying this entire planet by adhering to the interests of money and the rejection of science. Well, that's no longer true; it seems the Trump administration accepts climate change, but that comes with a "well, it's too late to do anything, so just go crazy" type of response to the matter. The issue of climate change is an excuse used to justify a buffet of carbon emission efforts and letting them expand in harm, not contract. This will create an issue where resources, not just in the United States, but all over the world, suffer, leading to migration issues, but we'll get to that in a bit with Trump's Alt Reich agenda.

The second macro-scale issue, also afflicting American's the most in a per capita sense, is automation. People really are downplaying the danger of technology because they think the spook is in the erosion of jobs, when in fact the problem is that technology will negate rises in incomes due to the delegation of skills to technology. Retail and services will be ground zero for this issue, and seeing as full-time employment has largely been replaced by part-time employment in much of the first-world since the Great Recession, you're employing more of a majority of people in an arena absolutely poised to abandon them within the next decade. Looking at just one macro-scale study that correlates some isolated studies down based on specific countries (Oxford, the Obama administration, and the United Nations come to mind for these small studies) the numbers at risk are absolutely staggering. This will impact tens of millions of Americans, and massive amounts more as we look the world over. This may also have an implosion effect where the ladders to prosperity are eliminated. I mention the UN earlier, but their study on India in fact raised alarms that technology may leave a permanent underclass with no upward mobility. This is actually very dangerous, especially when if we're supposed to rely on the left as the "party of reason" they're proposing job guarantees. They haven't even admitted that full-time employment is no longer a norm! They're giving us a proposals conservatives in other countries come up with, and it's usually as an emotional response to even entertaining the idea of systemic change.

Before I even begin to talk about the next thing, I must address something important: the two above points are happening at the same time, and will intersect upon one another, and this is really where the fuel for most dissent, conflict, and strife will bloom this century. The Pentagon believes this is what will destabilize societies the world over. These problems alone would be enough to talk about, but as we're talking about the shithole known as America, ya'll know it goes deeper.

The fundamental issues of racism adopted via the neoliberal lens that "wealth is worth" play their own role in every fabric of social living. Black people are almost seen as intrinsically unpeople, that they have superpowers where a 12 year old is supposed to be a "man" and will have jaywalking held against them if laws would allow it occurs in the same space where a white man at high school sexually assault women - hello Brett Kavanaugh - is seen as someone who can redeemed by the facets of time itself. One increasingly sees, since the 1970s, this country has moved from a society where life is value to where only the market has value, and under parasites like Ronald Reagan, adopted too much of the country into this vision. Any form of business is the best form of business, any for of government is a bad form of living, and all rights should appeal to them and the market first. We are literally having puzzling articles and inquiries on how to solve paid family leave, as if it's truly a fuckin' cosmic mystery that's befallen us since the dawn of time itself. One may presume it's high-brow to presume this plays a role in America's injustices, it very much does, for what exists outside of market value and terminology is, by its association with those very concepts, considering unneeded and disposable. If the market somehow cannot solve paid family leave, it would presume that it's not a worthy thing to have. This is literally the lens in which we collectively live within. No wonder this is a culture bathed in violence.

The only thing America has done since the 1970s that we can see has been a constant net-positive has been the expansion of social rights, but as they have no market value, and as conservatism, the disease that it is, believes we've made mistakes in regards to these social rights, they'll all being put on the cutting block. You have candidates outright calling for the euthanizing of the unproductive, putting work requirements on the poor and addicted during an opioid crisis while ignoring real issues the precariat already face, parts of the population lacking drinking water, entire swaths of human life put in literal internment camps. The fullness of this problem, to me, is that we can be so full of ourselves and our myths of wellbeing and exceptionalism that we pulled out of the Human Rights Council potentially because of a scathing report that America commits immense abuses to its very own people. We have, as Henry Giroux aptly describes, curated a "culture of cruelty". In this culture, freedom is itself a word of exclusion; it's no longer freedom for, but freedom from. Freedom from dignified living conditions, freedom from security, freedom from education, freedom from healthcare. We have been seeing for many decades the attack of social safety nets and social rights altogether, but they're only in the spotlight now because grandma might be addicted to drugs, or your trans brother may be a potential target in this current period of history. And this, if we're real about it, is only going to get worse before we can even start believing the current pixie dust that it will get better very, very soon.

As stated in another thread, the parallels of America's emulation of the formation of Nazi Germany cannot be overstated or evermore clearer at this point in history. Once you have a power play where a minority ruin the system while proclaiming this is done to benefit the masses, you directly fall into the hands of authoritarianism. It's precisely the same game would-be normalizers of America's neoliberal mess use to talk about the collapse of the Soviets, failing to realize they're literally in the same game, right now. Power and wellbeing for a few as the empty rhetoric of "restoration" and "prosperity" are given to a vulnerable public, and this is normalized under an egoic lens: if you're doing good, who cares about the rest. The very danger in this country is specifically based around this vulnerable public. Are there enough reasonable people to see the violence, the insolubility of current paradigms, and are they able to course correct this mess? Who says revolution would right all wrongs? Further, who is to say that the vulnerable public, as seen in the dipshit Trump supporter who has already bought the game of illusions, isn't big enough to carry the country further into dissent. Look at the damage done already with the literal moron in the White House. The most alarming aspect, in my perspective at the very least, is that due to us being a reactive and not a proactive society and species, we may only wake up and act in an already-too-late scenario. Worse still, one of the literal diseases Americans face is how they normalize injustice. Another school shooting? Just another day of the week. Oh, mom got cancer? Gotta find a way to make our GoFundMe page appealing for donations. Things that should make your blood into magma are just as common as seeing sunlight. Any one major injustice is a national travesty, but we can go through many in one day.

The literal sickness this country sits in is deep in its blood, and I often wonder what will happen when the "body" stops working, what can be done, if anything, to alleviate the aftereffects and looming chaos, and if there's enough that could even be done to avoid an outright implosion within the borders of this eternally divided country. One may say I am being pessimistic, but I would argue I am being realistic. The first thing to do, as far as I'm concerned, is to be real with "what is", and it's that this country has functioned on the most smallest sliver of presumptions that, when exposed as fraudulent, the entire show gets exposed, and we're living in that each and every day of our lives. I don't even think we can fool ourselves by assuming all of this can be avoided, hence the paradox of "possibly" avoiding "inevitable" collapse of systems and structures.
 

Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
Vote.

That's seriously all you can do.

Actually not quite true – get your lazy ass friends to vote. Cajole them. Bribe them. Just get them out.

OP I quibble with your title's use of avoiding "inevitable" repercussions but I do admire the thought and work put into the OP.

V O T E
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,431
Vote.

That's seriously all you can do.
Vote, but also make sure you friends and loved ones vote.

did-not-vote-2016-update.png
 

bad poster

Banned
Jan 6, 2018
428
Vote.

That's seriously all you can do.

Actually not quite true – get your lazy ass friends to vote. Cajole them. Bribe them. Just get them out.

OP I quibble with your title's use of avoiding "inevitable" repercussions but I do admire the thought and work put into the OP.

V O T E

what if voting is insufficient?
 

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
Close, I live in Canada, but please explain?

Votes mean nothing because of gerrymandering and straight up roll purging. Even if you vote, the Americans system is setup in such a wat that the republican party will keep power due to its unusually high representation in the south.

A vote in Alabama counts for more than a vote in NY
 

Sky Chief

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,381
The only thing that can be done now is to excise the tumor of backwardness. Blue states must secede.
 

Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
Votes mean nothing because of gerrymandering and straight up roll purging. Even if you vote, the Americans system is setup in such a wat that the republican party will keep power due to its unusually high representation in the south.

A vote in Alabama counts for more than a vote in NY

Yeah it is gerrymandered in many places, but I don't think it's totally insulated from a blue wave yet. Which is just again pointing to the importance of voting in great numbers.

A huge number of Americans don't vote regularly right now.

Also I find the attitude of hopelessness to be... let's go with unhelpful.
 

Sounds

Member
Oct 27, 2017
928
Votes mean nothing because of gerrymandering and straight up roll purging. Even if you vote, the Americans system is setup in such a wat that the republican party will keep power due to its unusually high representation in the south.

A vote in Alabama counts for more than a vote in NY

I see what you're saying, but the Senate is controlled by popular vote along with Governorships in the states; both of which have A LOT of power.
 

Takyon

Member
Nov 8, 2017
3,707
Work to fix the American voting system.
Having the voting day be a public holiday, for example.
 

TwntyOneTwlv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,595
Ohio
Nothing we can do. Just hope for the nuclear bombs to come soon, and then those who are left can celebrate in the glorious Posadist apocalypse with their dolphin comrades.
 

Dodongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,462
Young people just have to start voting. That's it. That's literally enough to fix a lot of shit
 

Bad_Boy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
We gotta hit the restart button if the blue wave doesnt come.

Get everyone you know to vote. Its really that important.
 
OP
OP
Foffy

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,378
Inevitable implies it cannot be avoided. So nothing?

I know the title of my thread is a paradox between "potential" and "inevitable". I think we can possibly fix issues while others will be left to seriously crater.

For example, I think anything we're doing like we're doing right now for the coasts in regards to climate issues will lead to inevitable erosion and destruction of civilizations in those areas. I think we could possibly avoid the precariat dissent issue by reshaping how people have access to resources i.e. they don't have to labor for the most baseline things we have in abundance.
 

Ryaaan14

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,055
Chicago
These types of threads have to be embarrassing to view after a period of time. Like whenever someone on Era gets dumped and their entire life is ruined until a month later when they get a spicy handjob while they're playing RDR2.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
Get republicans out of power now and recognize that your comfort zone isn't what matters here. Playing by the rules is a losing game.

Stop demonizing riots. They happen because of a failure in the system. Realize that the establishment is always against progress and it's always been that way.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,431
will all the problems be solved if everyone just votes for the good guys?

No.

Will we, as a nation, be in a place where people's differences can be discussed in a rational methodology without money or the illusion of power swaying literally every conversation?

Hopefully. Like, let's make the system work and then we can drill down on the minutiae. But like...let's get legislation working.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
Young people just have to start voting. That's it. That's literally enough to fix a lot of shit

These types of threads have to be embarrassing to view after a period of time. Like whenever someone on Era gets dumped and their entire life is ruined until a month later when they get a spicy handjob while they're playing RDR2.

Expecting a lot more naivete fueled dismissal in this thread.

Foffy is doing good work
 
OP
OP
Foffy

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,378
These types of threads have to be embarrassing to view after a period of time. Like whenever someone on Era gets dumped and their entire life is ruined until a month later when they get a spicy handjob while they're playing RDR2.

I would presume this would be true if much of what I spoke about would be fixed in a month. Much of it is years and decades in the making.

You might assume that much of what I spoke of can be solved just with voting and having a voting block that's consistent in their positions, but that also requires that the pendulum doesn't swing for at least two generations. We've literally seen we can go from Obama to Trump. People will literally fall to any jobs cult charlatan talking about "making jobs for Americans" as nobody wants to touch the live rail.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,753
will all the problems be solved if everyone just votes for the good guys?
You can't wave a magic want and fix things.

But the only power we have as a public is to VOTE. It's the tool we have. It is downright shameful to not utilize that power.

Vote the fucking Republicans out.

Show up in droves. Get everyone you know to vote. Vote so hard that we force them out no matter how gerrymandered the district it is. They make it so its hard for us to win? Fuck them. Vote anyway. Never give up.
 
Sep 20, 2018
63
You're really going to rely on that!? You know we're fucked in that case

EDIT: Most of the young people I know don't even know that there is an open seat on the Supreme Court

THEN FUCKING EDUCATE THEM! Get everyone you know to go out and vote. If Democrats manage to take the House that will be enough to get us into a lame duck period with Trump. Obviously it won't fix everything but it will certainly be a hell of a lot better than were we are at now.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
THEN FUCKING EDUCATE THEM! Get everyone you know to go out and vote. If Democrats manage to take the House that will be enough to get us into a lame duck period with Trump.
Yes!!! Whining that young people aren't informed and don't vote thus it is hopeless is useless.

If the younger people you know aren't informed? INFORM THEM! The young people you know don't vote? GET THEM TO FUCKING VOTE.

If young people showed up anywhere near as close to the % of 65+ show up nearly every Republican would be wiped out and Democrats would control all branches of federal government and most governorships in this country.
 

Deleted member 4021

Oct 25, 2017
1,707
Vote.

That's seriously all you can do.

Actually not quite true – get your lazy ass friends to vote. Cajole them. Bribe them. Just get them out.

OP I quibble with your title's use of avoiding "inevitable" repercussions but I do admire the thought and work put into the OP.

V O T E
Republicans will soon make voting more impossible and irrelevant than it already is.

I mean, consider that to win just the House, the body that's supposed to represent the popular will, Democrats will have to win the vote by at least 7 percentage points. Consider how absurd that is. And the Senate is far, far worse. This isn't even getting into bullshit like voter suppression and the electoral college. And the Kavanaugh court will give them free rein to do even worse things.

Soon the only option will be violence.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
Republicans will soon make voting more impossible and irrelevant than it already is.

I mean, consider that to win just the House, the body that's supposed to represent the popular will, Democrats will have to win the vote by at least 7 percentage points. Consider how absurd that is. And the Senate is far, far worse. This isn't even getting into bullshit like voter suppression and the electoral college. And the Kavanaugh court will give them free rein to do even worse things.

Soon the only option will be violence.
NO!!! This is not at all the way to think.

If it takes 7%+ to win then fucking vote so we hit that 7% and then some.

Republicans can't take our voting rights away if we fucking vote so they aren't in power to take them from us.

Hitting 7%+ margin is doable. Giving up is not the answer.
 

Deleted member 4021

Oct 25, 2017
1,707
NO!!! This is not at all the way to think.

If it takes 7%+ to win then fucking vote so we hit that 7% and then some.

Republicans can't take our voting rights away if we fucking vote so they aren't in power to take them from us.

Hitting 7%+ margin is doable. Giving up is not the answer.
You're asking people to participate in a process that is fundamentally unfair and empowers fascists. Of course we should pursue it if possible, but I am increasingly dubious on the prospects of both winning the vote and the spineless Democratic shits doing anything to turn back the tide of fascism.

Nazi Germany wasn't saved by voting. It was saved by killing all of the Nazi shits. America is rapidly approaching that point.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,279
These threads are frustrating. You have to ignore what America was built on to be this fanatical.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,363
It all depends on which end of the double movement will gain power and influence in America; we are clearly moving farther right and left, flirting with fascism and socialism at this ponot, but neither sides are fully committed. Europe is going through the same phase currently, and the structure of the future world order will completely depend on how the West reacts to the current pressures it's facing. The right moving to more isolationist policy is what will really be our long term undoing as China rises in economic and military power, since we will not be able to oppose them with a united hegemon. Even if the left takes over, which is much more capable of handling the problems that threaten our society today, we still will have to face the threat of Chinese hegemon. Best case senario we will be heading toward Cold War, but in the ways that our economies are developing eternally China will have an edge; they are much farther away from automation than we are, and not destined to take that path in order to maintain growth. If America's darker side is able to hold power, and right-wing driven hysteria takes over Europe, we will definitely see a change in the behavior of Western states.

Now to be fair, I'm making a lot of assumptions here. History has always overall been trending toward progressiveness and a better quality of life, and the influence of the left will probably be able to drag its heels in a way that has a moderating effect if the right begins taking power. But, if either the extremes are met, it will either be Cold War, or at its absolute worst, World War in the next 50 years. Keep in mind, the later is very unlikely, but should still be considered
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,753
You're asking people to participate in a process that is fundamentally unfair and empowers fascists. Of course we should pursue it if possible, but I am increasingly dubious on the prospects of both winning the vote and the spineless Democratic shits doing anything to turn back the tide of fascism.

Nazi Germany wasn't saved by voting. It was saved by killing all of the Nazi shits. America is rapidly approaching that point.
It is possible to stop them though. We can win. Will it take 7%+ to win control of the house? Yes.

Are the rules fair? No. Is it stacked against us? Yes.

Is it impossible to win? Hell no. We CAN win. We CAN stop the Republicans.

You may not like everything Democrats do but they will seat a liberal on the Supreme Court. Period. That is a fact. Just look at the notorious RBG. Or Kagan. Or Sotomayor.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
You're asking people to participate in a process that is fundamentally unfair and empowers fascists. Of course we should pursue it if possible, but I am increasingly dubious on the prospects of both winning the vote and the spineless Democratic shits doing anything to turn back the tide of fascism.

Nazi Germany wasn't saved by voting. It was saved by killing all of the Nazi shits. America is rapidly approaching that point.
More importantly, Nazism didn't end via democratic policy. It ended by making Nazism illegal.
 
OP
OP
Foffy

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,378
You can't wave a magic want and fix things.

But the only power we have as a public is to VOTE. It's the tool we have. It is downright shameful to not utilize that power.

Vote the fucking Republicans out.

Show up in droves. Get everyone you know to vote. Vote so hard that we force them out no matter how gerrymandered the district it is. They make it so its hard for us to win? Fuck them. Vote anyway. Never give up.

I think voting will help, but at the same time education is a tremendous obstacle. America has actually created alternative universes and this is where information shifts tremendously.

I'm not telling people to not vote or anything, but when you have a population that can fall prey to emotional restoration campaigns because they've not been educated about the real problems, you'll always have a voter base leaning to the side of a problem maker, not a problem solver.

Aren't we seeing this with Kavanaugh, in a sense? "Education" may not be the proper term to explain it there, but how people digest information about a very neutral event has created divides between political affiliation and gender. These too will layer up and create obstacles. This is how half of the political system is the world's leading body of climate change denial.

To presume these are the degenerates to avoid and ignore is also ignoring the severity of problems that require a very strong, unshifting majority to uphold. Gerrymandering, trapping people with emotional appeals, or single issues, or even the potential of literal fake news by technology will all play factors into hazing the mind's of people, and when a collective isn't clear, they're up for grabs.

This is a pretty fucked up thing to say.

Come on OP, your post is like an Alex Jones rant. I don't think things are so dire.

And automation has always caused humans to do less work. But I agree about climate.

Actually, despite technological gains, Americans are doing more work than ever, and that's in addition to their productivity being the most decoupled it's been from wages in the modern era. This is more of a policy and idea divide; if jobs are being usurped with technology, why do we keep stomping this idea that if you lack one in the way we demand it, you'll starve and/or suffer? The change and what we project are combative positions, not cooperative ones.

The issue of extensionality versus supersedence is really the current questions of technology, but so long as we assume it's just the former and will never move into the latter, we're treading on very thin ice.

These threads are frustrating. You have to ignore what America was built on to be this fanatical.

America was built on divisions, and now those same principles of divisions have created internal conflict to its entire existence.

Yeah, compare this statement to the title and original post u made.

To be honest, I do not follow. When I speak of collapse, do you think I'm talking shit will get bad before the midterms? I am also speaking about issues looming in decades, and much like climate, they can arrive in ways that we have to prepare for their effects, not a potential effect. We will all be suffering in some collective sense to what's already been done in that respect. You can vote out the GOP, but their conservatism will pack the courts for 30 years. This is what I mean, though my examples are actually more larger than single issues, but trends.
 
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Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
The idea that it is useless because Dems are spineless is not true. Do not fall for that.

Centrist Bill Clinton put the powerful liberal badass RBG on the Surpreme Court.

Obama gave us two strong very very liberal voices on the court in Kagan and Sotomayor.

Anytime you think a Dem candidate is too soft, too moderate remember RBG.
 

game-biz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,711
I'll probably run to Canada, assuming it survives the hypothetical situation where America completely implodes. That said, the United States have survived much, much more dire times. I think it will survive this as well.
 

Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
4,596
Republicans will soon make voting more impossible and irrelevant than it already is.

I mean, consider that to win just the House, the body that's supposed to represent the popular will, Democrats will have to win the vote by at least 7 percentage points. Consider how absurd that is. And the Senate is far, far worse. This isn't even getting into bullshit like voter suppression and the electoral college. And the Kavanaugh court will give them free rein to do even worse things.

Soon the only option will be violence.

You're gonna lose that way. Lose everything.

This isn't muskets and nascent guerilla warfare. This is drones and sound waves and highly sophisticated media manipulation. The fight needs to happen within the battleground of the media IMO. People scoff at Avenetti 4 Prez, and frankly I do too, but as a non-countryman I would humbly suggest that whatever gets kids out of cages is a good start. Whatever.

I can't think of another country in the history of time that is better prepared to quell a popular violent uprising than late 20-teens USA. I mean shit, it might have already happened, and you didn't hear about it, or it was transmuted.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
America is a world leader in mass ignorance and had been allowed to verge that way for decades by the bad guys (republicans). Religion pushed, science belittled... Just pure ignorance on a mass scale and appeasing base instincts amongst the hateful.

That is what America is and is in evidence when you see disgusting treatment of people by the police, the way rampant capitalism in the healthcare industry literally kills off millions of people who do not need to die if the system was just fairer. The absolute worshipping of money and brainwashing of people to believe that good fortune is your "hard work" and misfortune is you being a "lazy undeserving cunt".

Fuck America as it stands now. It has plenty of good people for sure but you have a long way to go before those good people cannot exist without being demonized (anyone claiming to be socialist is seen as inherently evil by people who have literally no concept of what socialism actually means, for instance).

Good luck. Sadly my UK is going the same way but we have enough experience of socialism that there's enough people to fight it's ever present dismantling. Americans don't even grasp this yet and don't realise how shitty and downtrodden their lives have become.