-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
What do you think of Fire Emblem Three Houses' school setting?
- Thread starter texhnolyze
- Start date
I'm actually usually a fan of school settings in games, but I've always liked how Fire Emblem games always felt like a more traditional medieval-ish fantasy setting. I'm indifferent overall but I lean negative just because something about the way it was presented in the trailer seemed off. It just feels like a step back in scope from how the games usually are. But I could be totally wrong here, I adore Persona and a big part of why I like the Harry Potter franchise could possibly be contributed to the setting.
And I didn't even consider the "fuck your students" angle. Which is extremely fucked up but also extremely possible.
I'm still hyped for the game overall though, since I don't really play Fire Emblem for the story outside of the Radiant duology. Though a good deal of the rest of the series was passable but not great.
And I didn't even consider the "fuck your students" angle. Which is extremely fucked up but also extremely possible.
I'm still hyped for the game overall though, since I don't really play Fire Emblem for the story outside of the Radiant duology. Though a good deal of the rest of the series was passable but not great.
I think this is a big exaggeration of what happens in these games, in all cases its the character themselves that set out to do whatever thing is in the game. The narrative arcs in dungeons have nothing really to do with the protag, the social links have little to do with the protag outside of them being there. "Taming their strongest personality points" really is just fleshing out characters so they actually have motivations instead of being one note. The social links that usually fail to gain appreciation are the ones in which they stay one note and dont dive into their characterization (Makoto and Ann being examples in 5 that were largely middling becuase they lacked a focus). None of the "canon" revolves around the protag, you are simply part of a snippet of their time
There's this weird thing in these games where the main story exists in a vacuum ignoring the social links because they're all optional, my problem is that a lot of the backstories and the development for secondary characters are in these optional moments and they are basically ignored in the main story and too tied to their relationship to a boring self insert main character.
I don't think it's unfair to say their personalities are tamed. "Strong girl actually has a shy and weak side", "tomboyish girl actually has a feminine side", etc. The games actually always tone down their personalities to make them depend on the self insert. (at the same time you don't see this in the main story, even though in the end the plot ends up with "everyone loves MC-kun and he wins because of his bonds").
I'll only like the FE Three Houses school setting if it plays out exactly like Degrassi The New Generation.
Its extra depth and its not really "side content" slinks are practically 50% of the game, I really think you are just ignoring that most players are going to know most characters slinks. Even beyond that all of them get character arcs based on their dungeon, slinks are just extra moments. Saying the main storyline has them only fixated on romance is not even remotely true, I honestly cant even fathom how that was your takeaway given there are so many interactions between members and storyline moments
I think that is very unfair to say, they really never change their base personality outside of the story. Makoto for example has her slink begin with her expressing that she doesnt connect with people her age well, but this is reflected in mementos dialogue and the main story on various occasions. Or even tomboy chie's was never about her "feminine side", she stayed a tomboy the whole arc since it was about her sense of justice. A change isnt suddenly made out of the blue, just because they have closer moments (not exclusive to the women characters either as stuff like Kanji or Ryuji was really personal) doesnt mean they are "toned down". Nor do they depend on the MC to a huge degree. Futaba is specifically criticized for this even though she is the one who comes up with every action she does, interacts with other people, and grows through specifically her own actions
Last edited:
It's really not what I want from a SRPG story, but as far as FE goes, that ship has sailed for a while, so I'll be happy to ignore the plot and enjoy the gameplay as I generally do with the FE games.
I don't think there's any reason to dismiss the plot just yet. Even if the school setting isn't your jam, I have a feeling they're going to try and pull something unexpected/unpredictable (or at least I hope).
Now that we actually have a confirmed release date, I expect to see a steady stream of new info on the characters, gameplay mechanics, possible multiplayer, etc., until its release. A good demo like the one Awakening got would be one way to help anyone that would still be on the fence. All we can do now is wait, and see how they intend on marketing the game to old and new FE fans alike.
I think my biggest problem with Byleth not being customizable is that they have to look like an anime teen when their students are also anime teens. The female version is especially bad for this, which is a bummer because I had planned to play as the female MC. I'm sure they'll have a handwavey "you're the youngest professor that this school has ever had!" kind of mary sue thing going on, but jeez. People over 30 exist, Intelligent Systems.
And Jeralt is 100% going to die dramatically in the first third of the game.
And Jeralt is 100% going to die dramatically in the first third of the game.
Yeah it's a weird dissonance because I generally like the developments in the SLinks but structrally they can't be reflected in the main game. Character arcs for the same character running in parallel. Dunno what can be done about it while maintaining Persona's structure.
I'd like it if I was a student and could choose a house. That's the whole appeal of Hogwarts. Not teaching. No one wants to be Professor Snape/McGonagall ffs.
I agree but we also see a Lord changing clothes with a new class so probably school uniforms are just at the start until you start giving them proper classes.
I'm more ok with the school setting as I feel pretty confident it's going to be a temporary thing and not the primary setting for most of the game. As a setting and as a system of mechanics it's simply not strong enough to sustain itself for an entire game. It makes a lot more sense as a prelude to the main conflict. The calm before the storm. The happy days before the fall.
So you pick a house and teach them, from what we can tell each house has around 8-10 members, which makes sense. It's a decent number of characters but not too many to individually manage their skill lessons and such that it becomes overwhelming or bothersome.
We also know that all of the student's classes are Noble which is just a renamed Villager class which is the proto FE class. Part of the whole school thing is passing Certification Exams to graduate to a unpromoted class. This requires a minimum level of proficiency in certain skills. As well as some resources, namely Intermediate Seals to initiate the exam.
It seems unlikely they'll just add more and more students for us to teach and manage and it really doesn't make sense mechanically for any non students who join our party. As well it makes no sense that we would continue to use these mechanics with just our original house and not any of our other new recruits, non students or otherwise.
So my prediction is that the whole academy and teacher mechanics of lesson plans, tutoring and so on is just limited to the first act of the game. Once we have graduated all of our students from Nobles to their unpromoted class everything will change. After that character progression will probably function how it has in past games and most, if not all, of the teacher stuff will go away.
So you pick a house and teach them, from what we can tell each house has around 8-10 members, which makes sense. It's a decent number of characters but not too many to individually manage their skill lessons and such that it becomes overwhelming or bothersome.
We also know that all of the student's classes are Noble which is just a renamed Villager class which is the proto FE class. Part of the whole school thing is passing Certification Exams to graduate to a unpromoted class. This requires a minimum level of proficiency in certain skills. As well as some resources, namely Intermediate Seals to initiate the exam.
It seems unlikely they'll just add more and more students for us to teach and manage and it really doesn't make sense mechanically for any non students who join our party. As well it makes no sense that we would continue to use these mechanics with just our original house and not any of our other new recruits, non students or otherwise.
So my prediction is that the whole academy and teacher mechanics of lesson plans, tutoring and so on is just limited to the first act of the game. Once we have graduated all of our students from Nobles to their unpromoted class everything will change. After that character progression will probably function how it has in past games and most, if not all, of the teacher stuff will go away.
I'm surprised so many people voted it's trash, considering the all loved it in Persona 5 that bs.
Here it's far more interesting to me, cause it's a lot like Harry Potter and the three houses remind me of the Three Kingdoms, i think the setting is by far the biggest strenght of this game, with the monastery in the middle which may or may not turn evil.
I haven't seen kids in Fire Emblem three houses so far.
Here it's far more interesting to me, cause it's a lot like Harry Potter and the three houses remind me of the Three Kingdoms, i think the setting is by far the biggest strenght of this game, with the monastery in the middle which may or may not turn evil.
I haven't seen kids in Fire Emblem three houses so far.
It's probably going to be the first FE i'll ever buy as there's none of that Fates creepy bullshit.
Hate it
Its a tired concept that looks like it will drag down the pacing of the game and has been overdone to the point of destroying other rpg series as well
Damn shame since I havent picked up FE for a long time and was hoping this one might have promise
As it stands now my initial impression is pretty negative. Seems campy, uninspired and boring but maybe when we see how the entire game flows ill change my mind
Its a tired concept that looks like it will drag down the pacing of the game and has been overdone to the point of destroying other rpg series as well
Damn shame since I havent picked up FE for a long time and was hoping this one might have promise
As it stands now my initial impression is pretty negative. Seems campy, uninspired and boring but maybe when we see how the entire game flows ill change my mind
I'm really skeptical of the school setting. It looks a bit more mature than the 3DS games but still... if it goes full dating-sim and there's teacher-student relationships... 😤
There's a lot of potential there with an academy setting and three houses, I just hope it delivers. Also really hope the explorable town from that first trailer is still in.
There's a lot of potential there with an academy setting and three houses, I just hope it delivers. Also really hope the explorable town from that first trailer is still in.
I agree with regard to the school being a temporary prologue. Considering everything else we've speculated, it would make sense to me dramatically (and from an asset reuse standpoint) if Garreg Mach — our home for the first portion of the game — becomes a later game dungeon, with the Church as the enemy.
Right now, I'm wondering if the "Noble" class really will be a direct analogue for Villager, or if the first tier classes will be lateral, specialized promotions to learn certain things / go toward advanced classes. We see Caspar, still a Noble, fighting Western Church Soldiers with his fist weapons (notably different from his initial axe on the bandit level)... so it seems like either there's some sort of conflict with the Church before graduation, or graduation isn't the impetus for leaving the monastery.
If we do leave the school, I can't imagine the whole House-choosing thing will mean much in the end. Doubtful they'd make three separate route splits, although I don't believe we've ever seen any of the three lords on the same team (just on similar looking maps), so... hmm.
I don't think it's a lateral class as Bernadetta is shown to only have 4 Mov in the trailer, which is inline with Villager, so it definitely appears to be worse than a standard unpromoted class.
I think the Western Church could be a rebellious faction that the trailer mentioned we'd have to fight. Could be Western Church are "good" guys or at least no longer down with the authority of the Church and are causing a rift. That might be the inciting event that exposes the truth of the Crests, Church and so on to our characters.
It's interesting as the Western Church is deliberately called out on the World Map AND when when they show the Three Kingdom color coded regions there's a big empty spot where the Western Church is, similar to Garreg Mach.
FE's always had a variety of teens or very young adults, and that seems to be what this game also presents, late teen or college-aged students.
My concern is that characters are too much of a blank slate here. Free class-changing never sat right with me (although I have studiously ignored using it so it really doesn't affect me).
Again I go back to my starting experience in Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. You had the characters you had. There was a bit of customization you could do around the edges and that's it, and the game was carefully balanced to go along with that. Too much customization makes me worried that the missions in this game are just going to be more slogs like most of Awakening and Fates ended up being, where it's really just about how powerful and resilient your army is and not really about fielding the right team for the situation and making use of unique abilities in unique chapters.
On the other hand, the ability to really invest in your army's growth also feels like it ripens the game for replayability even more than Awakening and Fates did, so that's something on the other end.
One other thing to note is that this school setting isn't out there for Fire Emblem in terms of actual setting. We know in the GBA games that Characters like Ephraim & Eirika went to Grado & studied there & interacted with nobles like Lyon. Similarly Hector & Eliwood knew each other from their youth. It's not a direct analogue, because those weren't in schools specifically for raising Military officers, but the idea of nobles from various lands gathering & studying together is nothing out of the ordinary, whether in combat, history, etc.
The Church of Seiros ends up being the "neutral" territory, so it makes sense to have such an academy there. The Church will probably be introduced as unifying force within the lands of Fodlan, but then sure some "unforeseen incident" will happen to shatter that peace. We'll see if our group is forced to leave the area & we leave behind the school hub or not.
The Church of Seiros ends up being the "neutral" territory, so it makes sense to have such an academy there. The Church will probably be introduced as unifying force within the lands of Fodlan, but then sure some "unforeseen incident" will happen to shatter that peace. We'll see if our group is forced to leave the area & we leave behind the school hub or not.
I think it will end up being a lot like Echoes, where there is a "canon" or "intended" class for each unit (they will probably start with the matching weapon equipped, or a D instead of an E for one of the traits), to give you an idea of what the intended class is, but then they give you the freedom to go however you want with it, which definitely provides for that replayability you're talking about.
I would be willing to bet a crisp $100 bill that relationships are IN.
I agree, but there are some differences it does look like all the characters start out at E rank, but they've also introduced E+ rank. It seems that at E rank means you can't equip weapons and need to first achieve E+ rank to do so. I think they'll lead players down certain canon paths for characters based on their Strength and Weaknesses for certain weapon types and skills via bonuses and maluses, rather than giving them full rank bonuses. People will more likely choose the skills that have bonuses and not the one that don't or have maluses.
PS4 version will definitely be worth it over PS3 or Vita. PC version is arguably still the definitive version though thanks to how well optimized it is, neat features like quickload/instant resume, and having the various improved visual options that weren't implemented on PS4.
(I'd highly suggest playing Sky first, but that's for the Trails threads)
Eh, very late response and I don't want to change focus on the thread much, but I never wanted to imply side content as a diminutive thing, just that there's a dissonance between the two main parts of the game (story and social part).
I also can't see the whole "meet a character with a personality that goes against the status quo and eventually discover they're not like that/change them to something generic" as anything but negative. Naoto's plot basically has that weird implication that someone like her is just hiding their stereotypical "feminine" side in a very weird way. That and Kanji are pretty bad in P4, imo. I know people discuss this a lot, but I don't give the benefit of doubt to the devs who made the gay scare scene in 5 and that treat trans women in an awful gross way in Catherine.
To keep it FE related. IS already did awful things like this recently in the same way. There's the whole controversy of Soleil's gay conversion in Fates (that I don't think it's exactly that, but it's still very bad) and Clair's supports with Gray in SoV that is very sexist and blames women for reacting against harassment/stalking. I just want this awful aspect to be gone from the series, not to see it taking even more of the spotlight.
This doesnt happen though, I dont know where you are picking this up. There is no dissonance between their story selves and their slink selves, they are literally just different situations, if anything the slinks are there to make them more dynamic as characters. Naoto's plot is not about "hiding her femininity" where she wants to be this feminine person. She describes on various occasions how she feels awkward in traditionally female situations and roles, within the main story and within slinks. Her character arc was about how she views herself in the workforce and if anything her slink revolved around her "childish" interests rather than feminine ones. Naoto isnt really hiding her feminine side cause those things never really are of interest to her, she is hiding because she didnt want to be judged based on her physical appearance. Her slink is really a continuation of her dungeon and ultimately is there to give more understanding of her motivations. Even Kanji I find odd you would call generic when literally his whole social link is about not sticking to labels and preconceived notions of what you should be. Sure it was kind of a cop out if you were expecting them to tackle more gay issues within the story, but I wouldnt call it generic or some sort of dissonance by any stretch of the imagination.
Pertaining to FE, I find weird to immediately discount specific character driven writing as always being this poor transformation into being generic because they have... relatable topics? Its so short sighted imo to want it all gone because it didnt work for you before rather than just wanting it to be improved upon. FE honestly doesnt do as well a job as persona in my eyes because they need more specific story moments to flesh out characters, that just means I think they should do better.
In university it's still illegal, or at least frown upon. The problem is the power dynamic, not just the age. Hell I think in Medieval it was already frown upon.
Last edited:
I mean, it's a common complaint to all games that does this weird "character development is present in social links/supports" that some characters feel like two completely different persons in different parts of the game and I don't feel it's "natural" at all. Feels like they have to restrain themselves in developing characters in the main story because of the social aspects and then we get this mediocre character writing that tries to not 100% contradict their actions in the main plot, but at the same time make them feel like two different persons in one body.
@--- Naoto's plot. I picked that one because it relates to my problem with the two FE supports I specified. It basically subverts... a subversion back to a conservative status quo. Using a kinda neutral/tomboyish girl like her to tell a story about how she actually is way more of a stereotypical girl is simply lame. Why not do the opposite? It makes more sense with the tone of young rebellion/independence in these games and feels more like a more realistic problem: a teenager trying to hide that they don't like the stereotypical gender roles that they have to conform to.
Like I said before, I don't need these aspects removed completely from games, but they need to be way better integrated in the main story and have more limitations. Not every single character needs to be a romance target. Also yeah, way better writing. I honestly even prefer silly goofy stuff like Sumia's pie plot that is often mocked over the bullshit that is Clair x Gray's support.
Honestly, it's hard to trust any game following this trend to do it well and I don't want it to be even more of a focus for FE. I never complained about it in Awakening because it was just a side minor thing that I could ignore easily if I wanted, would prefer for it to be kept that way.
Not in my experience, most people like these moments in persona
To the naoto point, I really dont see what you are saying, naoto really doesnt change in her slink at all other than being less wound up. Its character growth, I really have no clue what you are looking for out of it. It gave her more depth as she worked out her problems from the story dungeon arc. Its not a different Naoto, she didnt become generic, I really dont understand what youre driving at, your version is a totally different character tackling a totally different issue. And she never is "the stereotypical girl", the theme of 4 was truth, it was about being introspective. She had issues with the way she was seen, never what she could do
Like one example I could see a critique being made about is with Ann they had set up an idea that people dont like her because of her hair that they never touch on ever again. They present you something that isnt done well or fleshed out enough. Saying "Naoto isnt x" is ridiculous cause you arent judging based on what it is, but what it isnt. It tackles an idea about women in the work place being treated as lesser, just because it isnt the issue you wanted tackled doesnt mean that it wasnt well done or worth talking about. It seems frivolous to just ignore it because it didnt speak to you
Last edited:
Stories don't exist in a vacuum. When you want to make a game about the social problems teenagers face wanting to show rebellion to "society", I would expect the stories to be actually subversive, but they end up being very conservative minded/pro status quo -- the strong girl is actually "weak" inside, the "gay" guy isn't actually gay, the gir that could be possibly used to discuss gender roles ends up with the generic plot of wanting to become more feminine, etc (this is what I'm calling "taming" of personality). It always feels like the story is actually afraid of tackling any issue in an actual subversive way or deconstruct any trope.
I actually feel like the main problem with modern RPGs is exactly that they're too designed to appeal to people who are into this self insert stuff. Social links/support don't need to end with the girl always falling in love with the self insert, but they do. And when games pander only to this demographic it's likely that we will get the same close minded stories and dialogues over and over again. This is how we got stuff like Soleil in Fates.
I'll remain mostly neutral about this, it really all depends on execution, have nothing against a school setting and it could give much desired customization and replayability to the game, but it could also take all seriousness away from the plot if badly executed.
Basically this lol, this fanbase is comically split.
Basically this lol, this fanbase is comically split.
I feel like you are glossing over a ton of points in the sake of trying to justify your position. Naoto's story is never about her wanting to be more feminine period. It doesnt happen. Its about her being comfortable in a work environment, its about being comfortable with yourself. Again, just because it isnt what you wanted specifically the issue to revolve around doesnt mean it isnt well done and doesnt add depth. Your core premise is built on falsities about what the stories represent, it isnt a valid critique if I can be perfectly blunt
I dont see what the "they always fall in love" bit has to do with the first part. I dont disagree they can have some restraint
I mean, I don't think it's based on falsities when she even literally starts dressing with "female" clothes. But if you disagree with using her as an example, there's even stuff like Yukiko's plot about her wanting to move on in life and be independent, but she actually decides staying in her current role is better. The stories always pretend that they're subversive, do a circle and end up with conservative/pro-status quo endings.
My point is that self insert RPGs like this do a lot to appeal to the player in detriment of story and character development, even more when the consumer base is basically very close minded and has no criticism towards most problems present in these games, encouraging devs to keep doing things like this. If this FE goes this route, for example, we can end up with a teacher using their authority to seduce their students instead of actually making what they're saying it is (a plot about teaching), which would completely ruin the story and characters to me.
Naoto wears more female clothing on one occasion only prompted by the player choosing an option in which they say they prefer feminine features when they are in a relationship in which she describes how she will "stick to her normal outfit". At worst its an obvious fan service moment, definitely not an indication of her "wanting to be more feminine".
Last edited:
For now, I remain nonplussed. They could do interesting things with a military academy scenario, either way.
Mainly here to see how the gameplay and lore shape up.
Mainly here to see how the gameplay and lore shape up.
at the end of the day it'll still be a fire emblem game, so the lore is probably not going to be particularly exciting. (but also at the end of the day it'll still be a fire emblem game, so you probably already know if the lore will sit right with you or not)