What do you think the solution should be to the current problem with scalping?

[cdigs]

Scalping has been an issue for a long time, but it's gotten even worse over the last year, especially due to COVID-related production problems and shortages. I understand that new products like the PS5 and Xbox systems are in high demand and are more likely to sell out in general, but that doesn't mean the average consumer should feel like they have to resort to paying higher prices or get comfortable with the idea of waiting a year or two for enough stock to be available for purchase. And as long as demand remains high while shortages continue, scalpers are going to continue to profit.

That being said, what's the solution? Would a ban on scalping actually be beneficial, or would it have unintended consequences? I can see scenarios in which a ban might be harmful to some businesses, like local video game retailers, though I'm sure an argument could be made that they don't have to and shouldn't be scalping new and in-demand items. There's also other factors to consider, like the idea that new and unopened items are expected to be worth more money as time goes on and machines/games are no longer being manufactured or printed. I think that's an acceptable and reasonable expectation for people who look at certain items as collector's pieces and an investment. And then, I also know it's hard to argue that you can't tell someone what to charge for an item if someone is willing to pay for it. It's tough.

Personally, I think a time-limited ban on scalping would be an interesting proposal. For example, selling an item for more than MSRP + tax would be illegal for a set amount of time (1-2 years). Or, perhaps it could be illegal as long as that item is still actively being produced for sale by the company. I'm not sure how this would practically work -- could retailers list something on their product pages about more stock coming in the future? Could companies be more upfront about more stock coming to retailers?

Thoughts?

 

[falconhoof17]

Something similar to the Maoist land reform movement except with scalpers rather than landlords.

 

[Tanston]

They haven't managed to eliminate scalping for concert/sports etc tickets so I'm not sure what hope they have of eliminating scalping here. I think it would help if stores took backorders so you could at least get in line and limit it to one order per customer over some time frame so at least the scalpers have to pull a new name/address out of their ass to order a second console. I know the reason why stores don't take backorders on consoles anymore though because then the entire customer service staff of that store has to deal with "when will it be available" questions non stop so maybe that's not even a viable solution.

 

[Marshall]

I think that outfits with brick and mortar locations only selling in-store would help a lot. Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart in particular.

 

[mnz]

What is Apple currently doing? I remember they had a pretty good system in place against it.

 

[Euler007]

There should have been a centralized queue. You get an email that says your unit will be available at x retailer, you have 48 hours to pay for it or else that unit goes to someone else and you go the end of the queue.

 

[Fadewise]

As others have said, a queue/backorder system, either directly from the manufacturers or at least the retailers (though there's much less incentive for the retailers to do so).

I for one don't care so much about getting new kit on day one, but i'd much rather just put my name on a list and get it four months later than have to do this Wario64/trigger-finger-on-F5 dance.

 

[Wrexis]

Just start with shipping one or two at most to a single address with a certain timeframe - one week/month etc. I couldn't believe that some retailers were shipping 5-10 consoles and graphics cards to one household. No-one thought someone buying 10 RTX 3080s was a bit suspect?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Retailers don't have an incentive to stop scalpers, so until the platform holders grow bold enough to sell significant amounts of hardware directly to consumers, it's not an issue that has any hope of being fixed.

 

[gcwy]

You know. Just the one solution for all economic problems that would also fix most of the major social issues as well.

 

[Pyro]

Better protection against bots

 

[LCGeek]

You can't eliminate it.

You sure as shit should stop selling to people in bulk over a period of months.
Put in something like a raffle or anti bot system.
A pre order queue would be huge, got more 3080s this way than just looking for active sales.

 

[Dan Thunder]

I've always wonder when you sign up to an online retailer if they could post some sort of PIN code to a physical address that you have to log in with when you buy online. If the same address crops up more than 3-4 times then it's flagged up in the system. That should stop scalpers set up in a room with hundreds of bots swiping everything. Maybe with high demand items only allow accounts/addresses to order one item per month (or whatever works out fair due to supply). If they could work out a better system for dealing with bots that would go a long way to resolving the problem but I don't know what that solution is.

Alternatively ensure a much greater supply to bricks and mortars stores where you physically have to travel to collect the item. In the end though the issue is that retailers don't care. They just want to sell the product regardless of who it goes to. Same with the likes of eBay. They don't care if people are charging double or tripled the RRP of a product, as long as they get their cut they're happy.

 

[enempi]

I’m not sure there is anything that can be done, or if retailers really have any incentive to do anything about it. Surely having brick and mortar stores open again will help.

Like someone else mentioned, no one has been able to stop it for sports and concerts and those are actually one time, unique events. The thing with the PS5 is that you’ll eventually be able to get one and it’s going to be the same exact PS5 people are getting now. You’re not actually “missing out” on anything or losing an opportunity. If we can’t fix scalping for events that you actually do miss out on, I don’t think anything will be done about video game consoles except just wait for more supply and the initial rush to settle down.

 

[Jedi2016]

Limit 1 per customer and actually be able to identify when someone is pretending to be a hundred different people.

I also like the idea of forcing in-person pickup for retailers with brick-and-mortar locations. No shipping from Wal-Mart or Best Buy, you have to go to the store to pick up your one unit, the end. For normal people buying only one system, this isn't a hindrance at all (it's how I got mine).

But it's also true that most retailers simply don't care enough to do much more than pay lip service. A sale is a sale, they get their money either way.

 

[radioactivez0r]

People have to stop buying from scalpers, that's it. Like if someone says hey buy this $500 thing for $1300 because you can't get it anywhere else...don't buy it. But we don't seem to be capable of that as a group, so here we are. Trying to legislate it or force weird systems into place will ultimately just hurt people who are in some way disadvantaged (bad internet, rural areas, etc) and there will be ways around it.

So the question is how do you counter human nature to want a thing so badly they'll pay whatever is asked?

 

[Human Resources]

administrative punishment

 

[hikarutilmitt]

You cannot fight it without running face first into First Sale Doctrine. This is the very reason that it's even possible, because otherwise companies could prohibit the sale of the item to anyone they choose. Free market is good, but it has warts like this. Retailers caring more about fighting bots would help, but for every Best Buy making it a pain in the ass to be a scalper you end up with Wal-Mart not giving a damn because they made their money.

The only way to fight it up front would be to only have a single way to acquire it, bereft of retailers. Then you maybe tie the purchase to a specific account that is also preloaded to the console and only that account can activate the console. An account would also have to have been created a specific amount of time ahead of release to cut down on scalpers making burner accounts. Maybe force the account onto the system for activation regardless of factory resets to REALLY cut down on it, but that's getting into some Big Brother shit.

There should have been a centralized queue. You get an email that says your unit will be available at x retailer, you have 48 hours to pay for it or else that unit goes to someone else and you go the end of the queue.

Click to shrink...

This absolutely would not work because of retailer allocation and it would be too easy to be accused of favoritism. Even if you could tell it to queue you onto a specific retailer, you'd end up with a similar scenario on the consumer end.

You know. Just the one solution for all economic problems that would also fix most of the major social issues as well.

Click to shrink...

What? Tell us! Tell us!!!

I want to know this evil magic bullet!

 

[cdigs]

They haven't managed to eliminate scalping for concert/sports etc tickets so I'm not sure what hope they have of eliminating scalping here. I think it would help if stores took backorders so you could at least get in line and limit it to one order per customer over some time frame so at least the scalpers have to pull a new name/address out of their ass to order a second console. I know the reason why stores don't take backorders on consoles anymore though because then the entire customer service staff of that store has to deal with "when will it be available" questions non stop so maybe that's not even a viable solution.

Click to shrink...

There should have been a centralized queue. You get an email that says your unit will be available at x retailer, you have 48 hours to pay for it or else that unit goes to someone else and you go the end of the queue.

Click to shrink...

I think the idea of an ongoing queue would be great, but I think each retailer would need their own queue. Even if you're like, number 5,000 in the queue at Target, that's still better than flailing around for months trying to get one.

 

[Fercho]

The only real solution is for people to stop being part of the problem and stop buying from scalpers and to be honest this is quite difficult.

Imagine these assholes unable to sell the items they bought. Hilarious picture.

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

Bot countermeasures is the first step.

You are never getting rid of people buying to resell, the very least you can do is making sure they don't have advantage over everyone else.

 

[Stregas]

A queue system limited to one per address directly from the manufacturer is a good start

 

[KentBlake]

Jail.

 

[Multievolution]

Only thing I think will help is physically being able to go into a shop and buy one, scalping is always a factor but a big part of the reason as to why it’s such an issue now is the fact most shops can’t stock them,

 

[dmaul1114]

It's on the console/GPU manufacturers. These things are low profit items for retail stores so they have little incentive to spend time and money doing much to thwart scalpers. Hell, even if they were high profit items a sale is a sale to them as they get the money either way.

If I was a console maker in particular I'd take steps to make it easier for my most important customers--those with active, paid online subscriptions to buy my new consoles. Do a preorder wave 6+ months in advance of launch that's only open to paid members and only accessible through their store while logged in. That will discourage some scalpers and it's far enough in advance that they can have time to manufacture however many they need to fill those orders before allocating pre-order/launch day stock for their retail partners.

Post launch the best they can probably do is what Sony is doing with their Direct sales and limiting them to PSN account holders and doing a lottery each window by randomly sorting people waiting in the Queue etc.

 

[Kimchi_Breath]

Pre-order system like Apple. Place a pre-order and get charged once your console actually ships out.

 

[Mass Effect]

a simple recaptcha would stop a lot of bots in their tracks.

Then of course you can add extra protections on top of that like limiting purchases on a specific item by IP, payment, and physical address.

 

[Walken]

Pre-order system like Apple. Place a pre-order and get charged once your console actually ships out.

Click to shrink...

How does that work at the retail end, is it all centralized through Apple?

 

[cubicle47b]

For larger operations the same thing that happened to this guy: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/technology/matt-colvin-hand-sanitizer-donation.html

It doesn't solve the problem, but it is satisfying.

 

[Vagabond]

Retailers don't want to do a backorder system for whatever reason but that is by far the best method, especially for high popularity and supply constrained items. Limit it for verified or accounts with ordering history, limit amount of products that can be bought at once, and have a valid anti-bot/time out solution and I feel like 95% of this will be solved.

 

[Jedi2016]

The only real solution is for people to stop being part of the problem and stop buying from scalpers and to be honest this is quite difficult.

Imagine these assholes unable to sell the items they bought. Hilarious picture.

Click to shrink...

That's the ultimate solution, sure. But that's mostly a psychological problem, IMO, being so overwhelmed by the "need" for the product (way beyond just FOMO) that all other considerations become secondary. Did I want a PS5 at launch? Sure I did, we all did. But I refused to pay a penny more than MSRP, and I was patient. Some people are just incapable of doing that, and I don't know how you can fix that.

 

[cdigs]

Jail.

Click to shrink...

 

[canderous]

Retailers have to do a better job. There are stores out there where just renaming your address from "123 King Street" to "123 King St." gets around any one-per-household limits. There are others that have no bot protection at all. And many more are just joining in on the scalping themselves, such as Newegg with GPUs -- they just keep raising the prices because they can.

There is at least light at the end of the tunnel for consoles. Where I live, the scalper prices for PS5 and XSX are getting quite close to the original sale price plus tax. At some point it's not going to be worth their while to go through the hassle of scalping a console for a measly 20 or 30 bucks. And if you're looking at ebay, remember that those prices will always be inflated because of the fees the seller has to pay (around 13%). So for example in Ontario, Canada where a PS5 costs $630 + 13% tax = $712, a scalper would have to sell it on ebay for about $820 just to break even. $820 scalp price vs. $630 retail price looks like a hefty profit, but it's not. It's no profit. Not excusing it, just putting it into perspective.

And what about used goods? If there was some kind of scalping law would it apply there too? For example, many GPUs from 4+ years ago are currently selling for more than their original retail price just due to supply and demand. I don't know how you outlaw putting up a used product for bidding and having people choose what they pay. Or just pricing your item at whatever the market rate is. If you make selling anything above MSRP against the law, then you probably just create shady black markets where people have no protection against being scammed. Maybe you'd say good riddance they deserve to be scammed.

So yeah, I think it's really on the retailers here. The ones that don't do a good job at preventing it should lose their privileges of selling the product. Or the manufacturers should just sell them directly and let you order at any time, putting you in a backorder queue so you don't have to constantly hunt for stock drops. When stock drops disappear quickly I think it artifically inflates the demand. If you could just put yourself on a list and know you have one coming in a reasonable amount of time, the whole FOMO thing that drives some of these prices would probably be reduced.

 

[SwampBastard]

A good start would be retailers restricting purchases to one SKU per shipping address and/or payment method.

I can see two problems with trying to emulate the Apple approach:

1. The console manufacturers are not currently equipped to handle the kind of B2C logistics that Apple has in place. Doing so would be expensive. And speaking of cost...
2. Apple has crazy high margins on their products and can afford to eat some shipping costs to get their hardware in the hands of their customers. New consoles generally sell at a loss, and I doubt Sony/MS/Nintendo want to take on additional costs of shipping direct to consumers instead of shipping in bulk to retailers.

 

[RXM027]

How does that work at the retail end, is it all centralized through Apple?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, if you order through Apple, you’re guaranteed an item, although you will have to wait if it’s a high demand item, such as the M1 Macbooks.

 

[TripleBee]

3rd party selling sites restricting all sales for a product during the first 3 months of a new products release.

 

[VariantX]

You literally have to get retailers to actually do something. At all. The product manufacturers are at least doing something. Scalpers can't buy up all the product when the manufactuers sell direct since they actually have some protections. Sony only lets 1 person per PSN account per drop get it and its via a queue. MS from what I understand just IP bans you if do far too many refreshes in a certain period of time which would pretty much stop a bot in its tracks. AMD is going to sell a number of thier cards direct and work with partners for pre-built systems. And Im sure Nvidia has more stuff in the works besides the mining cards. Scalpers are going to always be there but they can't be anywhere near as effective at what they do if retailers did more on their end. And the only thing I can see forcing them to do something is the manufacturers withholding a larger number of their products to sell them directly to the consumer.

 

[canderous]

3rd party selling sites restricting all sales for a product during the first 3 months of a new products release.

Click to shrink...

That ain't happening. Do you have any idea how much money ebay makes off of this? They get 10% from every scalped product and paypal gets more on top. When demand was highest, they literally had promos for sellers to encourage the selling of more of them (I took advantage to unload my One X and Pro since it included all consoles).

 

[NarohDethan]

The only real solution is for people to stop being part of the problem and stop buying from scalpers and to be honest this is quite difficult.

Imagine these assholes unable to sell the items they bought. Hilarious picture.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, this. A little restraint would help.

 

[Dragonyeuw]

Without having a clue about such things, some kind of multi-step process that the bots can't get around. Or like I place an order on bestbuy's site using my CC attached to my address, a unique code is generated and once my time comes up in the queue I'm given a short window of time (24 hours?) to claim the system before its released out into the wild.

Honestly I have no fucking clue. The retailers made the first sale and probably can't be arsed to wastes resources on creating effective bot counter-measures. They really don't give a single fuck if I buy a PS5 from them and then go out on the corner and sell it to someone for 3 times the MSRP.

 

[LinkStrikesBack]

The only real solution is for people to stop being part of the problem and stop buying from scalpers and to be honest this is quite difficult.

Imagine these assholes unable to sell the items they bought. Hilarious picture.

Click to shrink...

THe worst that can happen to scalpers is they return them to the store for the price they bought it at, unfortunately.

The only actual solution is for the companies to be able to meet demand so theres no need for scalped versions.

 

[Kid Night]

Allow pre-orders. Send out systems as they come in.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

That ain't happening. Do you have any idea how much money ebay makes off of this? They get 10% from every scalped product and paypal gets more on top. When demand was highest, they literally had promos for sellers to encourage the selling of more of them (I took advantage to unload my One X and Pro since it included all consoles).

Click to shrink...

EBay has been rolling out their payments management system, 14% all to them and PayPal only if you choose to. Bestbuy and Target have better systems now where you buy online but pick up in-store.

Allow pre-orders. Send out systems as they come in.

Click to shrink...

And actually enforce one per cc/household address.

 

[Matty H]

Retailers could have just gouged consumers so that scalpers didn't think there was any value above the sale price,
Or Sony/MS could have set a higher recommended retail price,
Or Sony/MS could have held back their launch until they had enough stock to meet demand,
Or we as consumers just accept scalpers will always pop up when demand outstrips supply.

 

[corasaur]

Direct-to-consumer sales with a queue system seem great but I'm not sure there's any substitute for "let go of the FOMO and buy whenever demand stabilizes, and beg your friends to do the same, and hope waiting becomes normal."

Heinous console-DRM could be implemented to make scalped systems useless but it would torment normal purchasers too and wouldnt be worth it. Like, you can't make a PSN equivalent of "must show credit card at box office to pick up tickets" because "must type in credit card number used to purchase system every time you use the system to log into PSN" would be the worst DRM in history.

 

[Deleted member 5127]

Max two purchases per person, but that's not going to happen, stores just want to sell their stock.

 

[totofogo]

demolish capitalism

 

[Fercho]

That's the ultimate solution, sure. But that's mostly a psychological problem, IMO, being so overwhelmed by the "need" for the product (way beyond just FOMO) that all other considerations become secondary. Did I want a PS5 at launch? Sure I did, we all did. But I refused to pay a penny more than MSRP, and I was patient. Some people are just incapable of doing that, and I don't know how you can fix that.

Click to shrink...

And even if you decide to legit wait, is not that much of a wait. I bought my PS5 , 2 weeks ago in an Amazon restock, retail price and even at monthly payments without interest.

Surely the legit sales are now gone and only the scalpers remain selling almost at 50% more the asking price.

People just need to be a little bit pacient and avoid empowering scalpers, it's not too much to ask, you will not die if you don't play Sackboys big adventure.

Of course Amazon banning scalping sales would help.

 

[Tunichtgut]

Just start with shipping one or two at most to a single address with a certain timeframe - one week/month etc. I couldn't believe that some retailers were shipping 5-10 consoles and graphics cards to one household. No-one thought someone buying 10 RTX 3080s was a bit suspect?

Click to shrink...

This!

 

[Ikuu]

Produce more units.