What do you want for Bayonetta 3?

What do you preffer for Bayo3?

  • Perfect the formula, give me Bayonetta 3!

    Votes: 119 78.3%
  • Push the genre forward, I want Bayonetta 101!

    Votes: 27 17.8%
  • Other (please post and explain)

    Votes: 6 3.9%
  • Long live the Character Hack&Stylish Action term!

    Votes: 13 8.6%

  • Total voters
    152

correojon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
607
2019 is being an awesome game for fans of games in that genre that is impossible to name without someone complaining about the chosen term in the replies (to keep everyone equally unsatisfied we´ll call it Character Hack&Stylish Action, CH&SA for short): We´ve seen the return of the king with DMCV and a very surprising new entry in the genre with the recent Astral Chain. Both have their up and downs, with DMCV delivering the maximum expression of the DMC combat system but showing a bit its´ lack of ideas specially in regards to level design. Astral Chain is incredibly refreshing and original, not only in the combat department, but it´s also a bit too unfocused and rough with some weird design decissions like the camera implementation, abundance of non-combat related sequences or the polarizing ranking system. With their rights and wrongs, each game shows a different direction to take the genre: The quest for a perfected formula by iteration in DMCV (with some non-compromising novelty with V), or the bold exploration of new paths in AC (where even stuff that worked in previous titles is abandoned to try new things...that some times aren´t completely up to the task). Please note that I´m trying to praise and piss on both titles equally as this thread isn´t about establishing the best CH&SA (besides, everyone knows it´s Legend of Korra).

Bayonetta 3 is coming but we still don´t have any information about it, so I thought it would be nice to have a thread where Era could say what they wish will be in the game. Do you want some "minor" changes to the basic formula like DMCV and Bayo2 itself, or do you want something more crazy like AC or the fantastic TW101? Note that this can apply to combat and to the rest of the game, for example you may want a new combat system but in a more traditional layout of arenas joined by corridors like DMC, or a traditional combat in maze-like levels with enemies used along the level to create unique challenges like in Mega Man or, yes, Souls games.


Personally, I want something that takes the basics of the Bayonetta 1 combat system (no combo-breaking enemies, no Umbran Climax) but goes absolutely crazy with the weapons, giving them many special additional effects like those in AC and TW101. Make weapons really different to use, incorporate the enemy design into them so combat has a bit of a puzzle component but with enough freedom (TW101 and AC already do this): Every weapon should be indisputably better in a specific situation, but all weapons should be able to deal with all kind of enemies. Give us more available weapons at any time than just 2 sets of hand/feet. Regarding the levels, use the environment to make encounters different, drop in a Bloody Palace mode with standard arenas and make the level layouts interesting and inviting to explore, but cut down the bullshit and standar P* secret encounters that only trigger when you return to a previous point in the level.


Royal release the thread into Paradiso if it´s not stylish enough.
 

Lilalaunebaer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
816
I have zero doubts or reservations about bayo 3. Platinum will deliver. So Option 1. Just more goodness that i can expect from the franchise.

What i want though..... is to SEE THE GAME GOD DAMMIT.
Hope it´s coming next year.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,752
I'd like to see playable characters that aren't just Bayo reskins.

However that is not an invitation to make Loki playable.
 

CanUKlehead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,151
Multiplatform

(Half kidding...I know NCL funds this. I'll buy a switch for this, like i bought a wii u for bayo 2)

I like the straight up fight arenas than the wacky ride on a missile stuff, so that's my answer.
 

Psychonaut

Member
Jan 11, 2018
2,371
An interesting and coherently delivered story. That's asking for a lot, though. So just keep up with the style of Bayonetta 2 and we're good.
 

Astral/H3X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,362
The gameplay of Bayonetta 1 with the refined artstyle and color palette of Bayonetta 2.

Make Umbran Climax an accessory, not something required to do damage.
 

Shiba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,752
Something more like the first game but also have the polish of the second game. Please don't have Umbra Climax or Witch Time being pretty much the requirement in engaging certain enemies. It was super annoying especially going against combo breaker type enemies.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
577
Something substantially different from Bayo 1 and 2, in terms of general gameplay, structure, etc. I love those two games, but a third one in the exact same vein would be a disappointment.
 

BeaconofTruth

Member
Dec 30, 2017
1,595
Bring back the gameplay base of Bayonetta 1, and add more command moves to Bayonetta herself and the individual weapons themselves. Make the parry a universal part of the gameplay.

Replace moon of mahakaka or whatever it’s called with something else.

Make enemies more like the ones in Bayonetta 1.

More humanoid bosses like Jeanne or active sequences like those, and not giants.

No air battles n sea battles with restricted kits

Both Witch Trials and Angel Slayer.

Non stop infinite climax

50/50 on keeping umbran climax, but if it does comeback give it its own meter and more unique utility and trade off.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,155
i want the same thing as bayo 1 and 2 when it comes to the general formula. don't change too much. just make the combat more like 1 than 2.
also, new haircut obviously.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,433
UK
DMC4 happened. And Bayonetta 1 felt like a response to it. It was great and I loved it. 2 had polish and I loved it but it didn't hit me quite the same as Bayo 1. Now DMC5 has happened and now Bayonetta has competition again. I actually. I want the polish of 2 with the enemy encounter quality of 1. Also I want the difficulty of 1 again because 2 took everything down a level where hard was actually Bayo 1's normal. There wasn't Grace or Glory level enemies, there wasn't a Gracious or a Glorious.
But goddamn DMC5 came in and just made me more worried about a Bayo 3. But honestly I don't know if Bayo 3 needs a massive departure. Perfect the formula? Advance on it. Maybe develop Masked Lumen into a real character play style. It is a crime that playable Rodin and Lumen were locked behind multiplayer in 2.
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,779
First of all, I want a lot of wit, banter and style. Astral Chain is great, but the script is horribly boring. If I don't laugh at every cutscene in Bayo, then it's a bad cutscene. Keep it stylish, keep it naughty. I want the writer to watch both seasons of Pose for inspiration before they write anything. Keep the same VA cast, obviously.

Then, I don't want a return to Bayo 2. "Same game structure, different weapons" would be the worst the game could be. They need to get out of their comfort zone.
The game needs to decide what it wants to be, and resolve the contradiction between "exploring every nook and cranny to find hidden objects and verses" and "rush to the end because it's a fast game and you're also rated on time". Whether that takes the game in the DMC5 direction (straight line with lots of enemies, minimal exploration) or in the Astral Chain one (lots of side quests, interactions with normal people, use your witch powers to interact with the environment) is fine by me. Just, be bold, and stick to your vision.

Finally, keep the difficulty progression of Bayo1. The game had a steady difficulty curve from the first level in easy to the last level in infinite climax, by steadily introducing new elements at the end of a difficulty that would become standard in the next one (new enemies that replace the low fodder, enemies immune to witch time before the difficulty when all enemies are immune to witch time...). The difficulty modes were not that well done in Bayo2.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Tiger hook swords or a lance/halberd as a permanent weapon to be utilized and not just something stolen from enemies temporarily.
 

TreIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,429
Columbia, MD
In a lot of post-release interviews for Bayo2, they hinted that a third game would aim to be doing some things differently from the first two games, both thematically and gameplay-wise.

More recently, Inaba did more to reiterate on that claim, which gives me rise that they're still aiming to reinvent things to some degree for Bayonetta 3. I'm pretty down for whatever, but would still prefer them to jettison mechanics like Umbran Climax and stay away from Open World.
 

What-ok

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,378
PDX OR
Currently on my first play through of Bayonetta on Switch. I can’t stop playing. I’m blown away. I haven’t played number 2 yet but if 3 is anything like 1 I’m so hyped.
 

lord_of_flood

Member
Jan 1, 2018
880
A new trailer would be nice, because I'd like to actually see the game.

As for the actual game though, I really liked the direction Bayo 2 went in (an opinion which is apparently sacrilegious), but I'd like some changes for Bayo 3:
  • Combo-breaking enemies are fine. I have zero problem with enemies having more capability to defend themselves, and most enemies in Bayo 2 were fine about it. What I didn't like was how bad certain AI could get with it. If enemies are going to block/dodge my attacks outside of WT often, then they need to attack often enough to compensate for that behavior, which is something that certain enemies (shield centaur, Sloth, Lumen Sage) did not do. Alternatively, those enemies should block/dodge less often (especially the Lumen Sage, who should have been more like the first form of Alraune rather than being nearly untouchable outside of WT). Also, combo-blocking shouldn't be a thing in the air, unless the enemy flying is its natural state or is a boss enemy.
  • Umbran Climax should be something that's more DT-like or just generally nerfed. It's a bit too powerful in its current state.
  • I'm A-OK with healing/revival items not penalizing the player further since you're already being penalized by taking damage. However, every other item (mainly the red/purple/gold lollipops) should have absolutely had a penalty attached to using them in Bayo 2, which is something that should be rectified in Bayo 3.
  • Don't lock playable Lumen Sage and Rodin behind Tag Climax. Let me play those characters during the story mode, especially the Lumen Sage.
Otherwise, keep the general direction of Bayo 2 and perfect the formula. Stay away from major distractions (aka platforming and environmental puzzles) and gimmick sections and we'll be fine.
 
OP
OP
correojon

correojon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
607
DMC4 happened. And Bayonetta 1 felt like a response to it. It was great and I loved it. 2 had polish and I loved it but it didn't hit me quite the same as Bayo 1. Now DMC5 has happened and now Bayonetta has competition again. I actually. I want the polish of 2 with the enemy encounter quality of 1. Also I want the difficulty of 1 again because 2 took everything down a level where hard was actually Bayo 1's normal. There wasn't Grace or Glory level enemies, there wasn't a Gracious or a Glorious.
But goddamn DMC5 came in and just made me more worried about a Bayo 3. But honestly I don't know if Bayo 3 needs a massive departure. Perfect the formula? Advance on it. Maybe develop Masked Lumen into a real character play style. It is a crime that playable Rodin and Lumen were locked behind multiplayer in 2.
Yup, let´s hope DMCV puts some pressure on P* to create a worthy answer! I ahve no doubt they will!

First of all, I want a lot of wit, banter and style. Astral Chain is great, but the script is horribly boring. If I don't laugh at every cutscene in Bayo, then it's a bad cutscene. Keep it stylish, keep it naughty. I want the writer to watch both seasons of Pose for inspiration before they write anything. Keep the same VA cast, obviously.

Then, I don't want a return to Bayo 2. "Same game structure, different weapons" would be the worst the game could be. They need to get out of their comfort zone.
The game needs to decide what it wants to be, and resolve the contradiction between "exploring every nook and cranny to find hidden objects and verses" and "rush to the end because it's a fast game and you're also rated on time". Whether that takes the game in the DMC5 direction (straight line with lots of enemies, minimal exploration) or in the Astral Chain one (lots of side quests, interactions with normal people, use your witch powers to interact with the environment) is fine by me. Just, be bold, and stick to your vision.

Finally, keep the difficulty progression of Bayo1. The game had a steady difficulty curve from the first level in easy to the last level in infinite climax, by steadily introducing new elements at the end of a difficulty that would become standard in the next one (new enemies that replace the low fodder, enemies immune to witch time before the difficulty when all enemies are immune to witch time...). The difficulty modes were not that well done in Bayo2.
I donñt completely agree (I feel like DMCV level deisng is very lacking) but I want to thank you for taking the time to write this, it´s very insightful :)

In a lot of post-release interviews for Bayo2, they hinted that a third game would aim to be doing some things differently from the first two games, both thematically and gameplay-wise.

More recently, Inaba did more to reiterate on that claim, which gives me rise that they're still aiming to reinvent things to some degree for Bayonetta 3. I'm pretty down for whatever, but would still prefer them to jettison mechanics like Umbran Climax and stay away from Open World.
Thanks for posting this, very interesting!

A new trailer would be nice, because I'd like to actually see the game.

As for the actual game though, I really liked the direction Bayo 2 went in (an opinion which is apparently sacrilegious), but I'd like some changes for Bayo 3:
  • Combo-breaking enemies are fine. I have zero problem with enemies having more capability to defend themselves, and most enemies in Bayo 2 were fine about it. What I didn't like was how bad certain AI could get with it. If enemies are going to block/dodge my attacks outside of WT often, then they need to attack often enough to compensate for that behavior, which is something that certain enemies (shield centaur, Sloth, Lumen Sage) did not do. Alternatively, those enemies should block/dodge less often (especially the Lumen Sage, who should have been more like the first form of Alraune rather than being nearly untouchable outside of WT). Also, combo-blocking shouldn't be a thing in the air, unless the enemy flying is its natural state or is a boss enemy.
  • Umbran Climax should be something that's more DT-like or just generally nerfed. It's a bit too powerful in its current state.
  • I'm A-OK with healing/revival items not penalizing the player further since you're already being penalized by taking damage. However, every other item (mainly the red/purple/gold lollipops) should have absolutely had a penalty attached to using them in Bayo 2, which is something that should be rectified in Bayo 3.
  • Don't lock playable Lumen Sage and Rodin behind Tag Climax. Let me play those characters during the story mode, especially the Lumen Sage.
Otherwise, keep the general direction of Bayo 2 and perfect the formula. Stay away from major distractions (aka platforming and environmental puzzles) and gimmick sections and we'll be fine.
Nice ideas, I like what you propose for combo-breaking enemies, but I wish we could still have some way to prevent them from breaking our combos, maybe some special move or weapon. In fact one thing I feel Bayo´s combo could do better is giving more utility to Wicked Weaves and normal mid-combo attacks. There is a sweep that worked great against Grace & Glory in Bayo1, but apart of that normal moves are meaningless. Wicked Weaves have more going with them, but I wish they had more specialized effects: Knockback, guard-breaking, AoE pushback...

A hair stylist character whose salon is like a dojo
Lol, this is so bizarre and it would fit so perfectly in the game!
 

Iggy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,779
Thank you OP for making this topic!
I donñt completely agree (I feel like DMCV level deisng is very lacking)
What I meant was that, if the game is going to have a lot of exploration, then Bayo's jump needs to reflect that. 2B's handling was perfectly suited for exploring the word she was in (at the cost of combat performance), and Howard in Astral Chain excels both in exploration and in battle because both sides are designed around their abilities.
Especially in Bayo2, the character was perfect for battle, but trash at platforming. If the world is bigger and you're expected to inspect it through and through, then the main character cannot be handled like she was in the previous games.
If however they think the game needs to be all about the combat (which is a perfectly valid design choice), then they need to focus their attention on the environment to make each battle fun and memorable.

Good platforming = good. Bad platforming = bad.
Hidden verses you need to complete to get Pure Platinum even though you need a guide to remember where all of them are in a timely fashion = Very bad.
Stupid mini-games that are mandatory to get Pure Platinum = STOP I DON'T WANT TO PLAY HANG-ON OR SPACE HARRIER WHAT ARE YOU DOING.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,425
Do your thing PlatinumGames, don't give me what I want, give me what I NEEEEEED.

Fuck my shit up, fam.

(Umbran Climax was kinda garbo, change that please)
 

lord_of_flood

Member
Jan 1, 2018
880
Nice ideas, I like what you propose for combo-breaking enemies, but I wish we could still have some way to prevent them from breaking our combos, maybe some special move or weapon. In fact one thing I feel Bayo´s combo could do better is giving more utility to Wicked Weaves and normal mid-combo attacks. There is a sweep that worked great against Grace & Glory in Bayo1, but apart of that normal moves are meaningless. Wicked Weaves have more going with them, but I wish they had more specialized effects: Knockback, guard-breaking, AoE pushback...
There were some ways ways to prevent enemies from blocking you, which were the Umbran Climax (which at least the final boss and certain bosses on Infinite Climax could block, but I'm not sure if enemies are able to dodge out of it; my memory's a bit hazy) and the lightning-charged Takemikazuchi (which is unblockable but could be dodged by appropriate enemies). There might have been a couple of others too, but regardless, the options available weren't totally adequate. Something I think might be neat, for example, would be giving the Tetsuzanko, which had very few uses in Bayo 2 due to the changes in the combo system, guard-breaking/unblockable/undodgeable (depending on the weapon) properties in Bayo 3 to make it more useful in combat.

I definitely agree with giving more utility to Bayo's usual attacks, especially her basic moves. Having basic attacks that do more varied things would be a huge improvement in particular. Weaves have way more utility since they have a bigger effect on enemies, so you end up focusing on which unique effect you'll get from your ending Weave far more than what your basic attacks enable, because your basic attacks do very little. Having mid-combo pieces with more noticeable properties would go a long way to opening up more options, I think.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,228
Honestly it's really hard to say with these games. At a surface, I want to say "more like Bayonetta 1 (combat-wise), less like Bayonetta 2".

But ultimately I won't know in what way to advance the game until I get it. Like with DMC5 - the advancements in Nero and Dante's gameplay was terrific. V was a bit more meh, and the levels needed a lot more work, not just in terms of visual design but general level design.
 

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,240
I want it to be set in an alternate universe wherein Bayonetta has won the 2020 election and modern society adopts a Bayonetta-centric culture and economy.
 

Aswitch

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,544
Los Angeles, CA
More Raunchiness, More Gore, deeper combat system, more weapons, good story and a Dante cameo hinting at a DMC x Bayonetta crossover would satisfy me greatly.
 

AllEchse

Member
Oct 29, 2017
662
Platinum has already shown that they can change up their gameplay style without losing the platinum charm with Astral Chain, and to an extent with Nier Automata(even though thats not fully by them).
Bayonetta 2 felt like a very safe sequel, so I wouldn't mind them changing it up, especially after their competitor DMCV was a really really good game, but fell flat from a level design standpoint, although I like how much more focused each character feels their as opposed to Bayonetta whose moveset is just very bloated.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Nov 14, 2017
11,403
Astral Bayonetta, she controls a demon with the b and y buttons no jumping, level design on the series is already very good just expand it a bit more