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Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Alright, fair enough. I wasn't picking on you or anything, to be clear, I just found your explanation interesting and wanted more insight on that.

Anyone can pick on me anytime its the spice of life. My standard is influenced heavily by edge over the years. I've long felt they have a good handle on reviewing games. Back when they did 5 point scale, they established good guidelines and attempted to stick to those. The fifth star was reserved for games that arguably did something "revolutionary".
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
I mean it's not like an A+ or 100% score in an academic setting means flawless or perfect, not sure why it has to here.
That's one of the issues. People treat review scores like test scores. All scores are shorthand for whatever a site's rubric says the number should means, or shorthand for the individual's subjective feelings. The score doesn't actually have numeric value like a test score does
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,557
My personal absolute favorite games. No other metrics.

For example, Sonic Robo Blast 2 is the most heavily flawed game I'd give a 10/10 to. It has a lot of room for improvement, and thus it gets significantly improved with every update. Yet every version of the game is a 10/10 to me, even though some versions are way better than others.
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,010
I will never understand how people can think a 10/10 can't exist. It's an arbitrary scale that does not indicate perfection as such a thing can't even exist, and if your arbitrary scale can't even fully fill out then the 9.8/10 or whatever you would give your highest rated game is effectively the same thing.
 

Big G

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,604
A game that:

1. When I'm finished playing it, there's nothing that immediately comes to mind that I would have wanted to have seen done better or differently.

or

2. Is so much better than any of its contemporaries that its flaws pale in comparison to the huge leap forward for gaming that it represents.
 

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,065
UK
Amazing game, masterpiece. Fans of the genre should already be all over it, everyone else should seriously consider it.

I think the whole scale should be used, so 1 means garbage, 5 means average, 10 means amazing (not perfect).
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,476
the good outweighs all the bad. nier is a 10/10 game. the story and characters outweighs the average combat and bland graphics. red dead redemption 2 is not a 10/10 game. no amount of good can outweigh the shit gameplay.
 
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JCHandsom

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
Despite perfection doesn't exist, a best score should be given in any field, including videogame. If a person thinks that he really enjoyed the experience through a game and the qualirt of the game is high despite having some flaws, it can be a 10/10 for him. Quality of course should have an impact on an evaluation, but for videogames the enjoyment is a decisive factor in my opinion

Nicely summed up.
 

jtb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,065
Look at this snob. Maybe those games are actually just really good?

I prefer games that are interesting and take risks over ones that are polished (and typically incredibly high-production value) and dull.

Experimentation has never reviewed as well as familiar polish, and rarely receives the same marketing push either.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,117
Then your problem is with the scorer not the existence of the score itself.

Well of course, the score is just a number and without the person giving it it has no meaning.

That's the true problem I have with the score. Without knowing the taste and style of the person reviewing it's hard to put the score into context because quite often the content of the review fails to justify outside of fluffy praise. Take RDR 2 for example. Everyone always justifies the scores and MC by saying the game hlis greater than its flaws but if you read half these reviews it's like the flaws don't actually exist. Quite often the sentiment I got after reading wasn't "amazing game with highs than overcome its flaws" it was just a bunch of meaningless superlatives with zero acknowledgment of the issues.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
Seems pretty easy to interpret. No game at least to me doesn't have some flaws somewhere in it hence to me no game will ever get a 10/10.

Granted I also don't care about reviews. I've hated games that got 10s (BoTW) and loved games that got shit scores. It's all relative to the individual.

But having flaws doesn't prevent a game from achieving its vision perfectly.

For exemple, the Souls game (Demon Souls and Dark Souls mainly) are pretty barebone graphically and technically, but it doesn't prevent the games from being perfect in what they wanted to do.

BOTW has flaws, I personally believe that outside of the Zelda universe, it's not that much of a revolution in the gaming industry, however they perfectly achieved what they wanted to do and released a pretty good game. That warrants a 10 in my book, even though reviews from reviewers don't mean much to me (Alpha Protocol is an all time favorite of mine and I would never knew it if I cared about reviewers.)
 
Jan 9, 2018
2,882
Generation defining games that when we look back at the console you remember it for the games that set the standard at the time
God of war for me is a 10
Or a game that changes the way you think about games and breaks everything you know in a new way.
Or a case like red dead or botw a game that is a master of its genre and is showing off how it's supposed to be done while pushing the limits and innovating on new ways to challenge the constructs of game design.
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,829
A masterpiece where the complaints are insignificant next to what was achieved. It's all about how you weigh the flaws every game has.
 
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JCHandsom

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
A 10/10 is a masterpiece, not a scientifically perfect game. Saying a 10/10 is impossible really silly to me, because then you're working on a 9 point scale.

Not every 10/10 is as good or equal to each other.

That's a good qualifier that I would agree with. I think it's perfectly reasonable, for example, to judge a 10/10 game from 20 years ago differently than a 10/10 game from this year, in the sense that it should be placed in its proper historical context and not be brushed off as "over-hyped" because of graphical/control aspects that were obviously outside the developers control.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
Reviewer bait game. My favorite games ever fall in the 80-89 range usually because they take more risks than something that can get a 10 from media outlets. God of War was good tho.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,510
As others have insinuated for themselves, 10/10 to me doesn't mean flawless but rather priceless. As in its value is inestimable. Transcendent. A wholly subjective distinction, but one that makes clear that the one awarding it is making a statement in giving it.

I dislike the 10/10 on a 7/10 average scale because 10/10 doesn't really mean much more than 9/10. Just a great game that may or may not be above and beyond comparison.
 
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The Pharmercy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,040
A fantastic game that either does something new or does what it sets out to do incredibly well. Sometimes it's a game primarily driven by a unique flavor - like Nier; Automata imo. It's technically not...great, but the artstyle, music and storytelling are what makes it stand out to me and what it does well it does differently to most of the industry. I think 10/10 generally means its so excellent it well outshines its flaws. The OG console release of Dark Souls has an abominable frame rate in Blighttown and chugs like a broken down car in other areas but again, its qualities are executed so well and in an original fashion at the time it overcomes its flaws.

Resident Evil Remake, too. I first played the remake on PS4 re-release and its essentially outdated game design but apart from being incredibly well made the experience is tailored around what some might perceive as shortcomings (fixed camera, controls etc) so it might not be for you but what it does it does incredibly well.

The idea that 10/10 = flawless or is impossible is stupid as heck.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,297
Interesting, so many view 10/10 as perfect, that's absolutely not how I view it. In fact, so far as multiple websites, outlets, publications etc have different subjective meanings for what a 10 is, it could mean any number of things. In reality to consider what that number really means you have to refer to the code of conduct for review scales on an individual basis per outlet (which most people don't want to do). A 10 indicates to me that the majority of people who interact with the game mentioned will enjoy it and be able to do so with little trouble (Usability issues,technical issues and so forth should not be egregious at any point on a game receiving a 10). To highlight the subjectivity even the language used by major media sites like IGN and Gamespot are 'Masterpiece' and 'Essential' respectively, two words in the lexicon which mean very different things. A review score should be taken as an indicator of quality. This has been prescribed according to a single person often, through a specific lens and should be taken as such as well.
 
Jan 4, 2018
4,018
A 10/10 game to me is something that combines its ingredients together to create an experience that is unique (or a step forward for its intended genre), and consistently abides by and absolutely nails it's own design ethos.

It's a game that fully realizes what it wanted to be and delivers on its key notes and themes. Or to put it another way, a game that fully realizes it's own vision of what it is.

I think judging a game by what we wish it was when our own desires conflict with the core of a game's philosophy is wrongheaded. That's not to say a game is 10/10 just for being unabashedly 'itself' if the overarching ideology for the game is flawed. And even then, that's subjective.

So when I think of reviews the mindset for grading, to me, is "What is this game trying to be, is it successful at that, is that design ethos interesting/worthwhile, and are there mechanical or technical flaws that could have been improved that don't conflict with the game's design philosophy?"
 

The Pharmercy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,040
What game has received 10/10 that you think didn't deserve that merit based on your criteria? In the last few years, I can't think of anything like that.

I think Persona 5 got more 9/10s than 10/10s but as much as I ADORE that series, I don't think it deserves 10s. But I also think a 7 is a "good" score not "Trash i shouldn't waste my money on" like some people :P The pacing & homophobic scenes - as small as they are in the volume of content in the game - are some things that sour it for me.

I was gonna say BOTW but that was one of those games where I could tell it was incredibly well made and ambitious but nothing about it clicked for me. I did 3 Divine Beasts but just realized something wasn't clicking and I wasn't having fun. I loved the environmental interaction and studied the GDC talks intensely since I was still a design student then. My relative ambivalence doesn't discount its qualities as a game.
 

Dabi3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,552
Masterpiece, a game that defines or will define the year.
 
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JCHandsom

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
Reviewer bait game. My favorite games ever fall in the 80-89 range usually because they take more risks than something that can get a 10 from media outlets. God of War was good tho.

This actually brings up a pet peeve of mine:

If your favorite games are "80-89" that just means they're your 100s. That's all the 100 actually means, that you give it the highest possible marks because it's your favorite.

It's the same thing as "Oh I love those 1/10 so bad it's good movies, I hate mediocre 5/10 or 6/10 movies because they aren't as interesting or memorable." If you love them then you don't think they're 1/10, and if you hate a movie because it's mediocre and unmemorable then it's not a 5 /10 or 6/10. Either judge a work based on your personal feelings towards it or based on its technical execution, don't say one when you mean the other. Otherwise you end up with a confusing system where 1s are somehow greater than 5s but not as good as 10s and the purpose of using a numerical scale as communicative shorthand is completely lost.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
A game that redefines its genre yet will stand the test of time of one of the greatest games ever. Combination of innovation (or evolution) and polish. Game that sets a new bar for all others in its genre to be compared to.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
It means someone hyperbally projected their endorphine-induced state of mind onto a game that probably has a million annoying flaws that I can't overlook.
 

Ethifury

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,802

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,972
10/10 means i don't have to write angry letters telling publications to increase the score
 
Apr 11, 2018
2,437
Sweden
Let me tell you the best way to explain the feeling of a 10/10. The feeling of 10/10 in the game world, is when you're playing a game, shaking with excitement. Loving the content and everything around it. Personally, I remember sitting in my bed, playing through God of War III for the first time. Crying from excitement. My favourite game of all time and will most likely always be.

For some it might be a game like Last of Us, or something entirely different like Minecraft. A 10/10 isn't a fact, it never is a fact. A 10/10 is something you have to find for yourself and when you do, no one can say anything different. You might love some fucking random game like, Proteus? That might be a 10/10, even though in my eyes its the worst game I've ever played.

A 10/10 for me, is God of War, the Spyro trilogy or Kingdom Hearts 2. A 10/10 for me is Avengers Infinity War. A 10/10 for me, is One Piece and Vagabond. A 10/10 for me, is just hanging out with my closest friends, wether we do anything or not.

A 10/10 can simply be anything you want it to be.

I love you guys, and let me tell you... You guys are pretty 10/10! <3
 
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JCHandsom

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
That's one of the issues. People treat review scores like test scores. All scores are shorthand for whatever a site's rubric says the number should means, or shorthand for the individual's subjective feelings. The score doesn't actually have numeric value like a test score does

I was actually thinking about the scores I got in college on papers and projects, totally forgot about test with right or wrong answers since I mostly did away with those after my second year in college haha
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,900
It means I should play it. Theres always some dumb ones like the 1up Gears of War review but unless theres clear hyperbole in the review I just take it as a strong recommendation.
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,505
United States
I think when a 10/10 is bestowed, it means that the reviewer believes the game is a huge step forward, not only for a genre, but the entire medium. That you can trace a game's successors back to it (doesn't have to be same franchise, e.g. RE4 to Dead Space or how for a while every FPS after DOOM was called a DOOM clone).

And that we've never seen anything quite like it.
 

GamerDude

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,313
Why would you utilize a scale that just stops before it's highest mark? That's literally all it means when it's used; it's an A+, highest marks, the best in its class. Having some theoretical and untouchable "perfect" score does nothing for nobody when it actually comes to the business of evaluating something and trying to communicate your judgement.

On a test in school, a 10/10 is perfect. No mistakes made. No one is guaranteed an A+ just because they are top in the class.

I see no reason it's an issue for me to never give a game a 10/10. The Last of Us is my favorite game of all time with a 9.8/10. Always some room for improvement in media.

Also, I think my review system is way better than the sites giving 10/10 out like candy.
 

Wumbo64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
327
I think people get caught up in the micro of 10s too much. It's why I always preferred the typical 5 point scale. It becomes very obvious on that scale:

1 - Bad. Don't play it.
2 - Below Average with some potentially redeeming/interesting qualities to specific people.
3 - Average. Nothing special, but very serviceable.
4 - Above Average. Still has considerable flaws, but edges out its contemporaries with extra polish or novelty.
5 - Outstanding. The game is something to remember in the context of its release and possibly beyond. Play it.

10 or even 100 point scales are ridiculous. People will scrutinize every point (or in the case IGN, 0.1) to an embarrassing degree. My suggestion is to always keep your scoring system very broad, if you have to have one. Anything else just dilutes the consumption of the actual review, which I feel VERY few people either read or watch anymore. They would rather just accept critical aggregates like metacritic as gospel.
 

Myself

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,282
For me (Note I'm not a critic that has to be objective) it's a game that makes me feel wonder and awe. That might be because of the adventures I have, maybe the message, or general feeling I get. This is why Zelda: Breath of the Wild would be a 10 for me, and so would Limbo and possibly even Brother: A Tale of Two sons. All those games left me with this amazing feeling when and after I played them.
 

JayBee

Alt-account
Banned
Dec 6, 2018
1,332
A game that could turn a mood of depression into making me feel joy (and wonder) again. One that does it to a high degree gets a 10/10 from me. I don't care about anything else
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,653
Philadelphia, PA
I treat a 10/10 game as mind blowingly outstanding it almost every regard in terms of visuals, audio, story, and gameplay.

It does not mean perfect because nothing is perfect. If we fall on the false premise that some people think no game deserves a 10 because a 10 means it's perfect, would invalidate the purpose of a 10 point scale to begin with. At that point it's no longer a 10 point scale because nothing can be a 10. This is completely illogical.

1 to 3 are basically avoid like the plague, in various stages, games with typically have irredeemable gameplay breaking bugs that makes the game heavily inconvenienced or impossible to play normally. Slightly better case being abject performance issues like a game being advertised as having 60FPS but it barely breaks 40. I mean functionally it can be played but why would you want to? Or at the best is just a terrible game, nothing special, poor plot, mediocre gameplay, it's just unpalatable in most regards.

4 to 6 I consider to be below to above average. On the low end the game isn't particularly offensive, it's just mediocre. Something not worth playing more than once. 5 is middle of the road average. The game could be better and it could be worse. 6 is decent. It's not quite good but it's notable for having a particular aspect be it audio, gameplay, or visuals that make it slightly standout.

7 to 10 are good to outstanding. Ranging from a genuinely good game, to great, amazing, and 10 being mind blowingly outstanding. The problem with 8 and 9 is they are so close most of the time. it's just the difference in this case an 8 has a something that one particular aspect of the game that doesn't gel with the rest. I mean it's a great game with fun gameplay and good visuals, but it may have lacking audio, so it's not amazing. 9 is typically hits almost every single note making for an amazing game, but it's not a mind blowing experience.
 

BouncyFrag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,772
If the game getting a 10 is in a genre I like, I'll most likely enjoy that game. Other than that, I don't give it much thought. Life is to short to get upset over video game reviews ala the RDR2 poo poo game play 97 metacritic thread.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,203
I can count on one hand where a critical 10/10 was actually a personal 10/10 (Street Fighter 2, Super Metroid and Mario 64). To me, it's going to be a game that has, not necessarily the perfect (but really well done) combination of gameplay, aesthetics, replayability (a game doesn't have to actually be high in this regard, but it weighs favorably for me), music and performance. World design is a huge factor too depending on the genre.

I'm not sure I can even list a personal 10/10 game from the last two generations either, but that's OK. I'm completely fine with 9/10 games, which to me are more realistic expectations anyway. Even saying that though, personal 9/10 games are few and far between for me.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
Well of course, the score is just a number and without the person giving it it has no meaning.

That's the true problem I have with the score. Without knowing the taste and style of the person reviewing it's hard to put the score into context because quite often the content of the review fails to justify outside of fluffy praise. Take RDR 2 for example. Everyone always justifies the scores and MC by saying the game hlis greater than its flaws but if you read half these reviews it's like the flaws don't actually exist. Quite often the sentiment I got after reading wasn't "amazing game with highs than overcome its flaws" it was just a bunch of meaningless superlatives with zero acknowledgment of the issues.
That's because what qualifies as flaws are as subjective and as based on the tastes of the individual as anything else. That's no different for an medium.

You say "it's like the flaws don't actually exist" and for some, they very well might not. It's the same reason why a movie like The Thing was absolutely hated for the same aspects that are praised today. Or why someone like Ebert might have given the highest score for movies that are generally disliked or heavily criticized. Perspective and opinion of those elements differed and changed. Like my favorite movie of the year was A Quiet Place, the movie that people constantly criticize for reasons that baffle me
 
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