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What had better exclusives, Wii U, Dreamcast, or Xbox One

What had better exclusives, Wii U, Dreamcast, or Xbox One

  • Wii U

    Votes: 579 40.4%
  • Dreamcast

    Votes: 741 51.7%
  • Xbox One

    Votes: 112 7.8%

  • Total voters
    1,432

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,598
Interesting topic. I just knew the XBO was going to be last.

I voted for Wii U, because I didn't get a Dream Cast. I actually owned a Wii U.

I did get the Saturn tho.

PSOne launched in 1995, DC in 99, and PS2 in 2000 (Americas). Time wise is very clear what gen it belongs to.
The fact it didn't survive through that generation is just a factor of its ultimate failure.

Similarly, WiiU also failed and was terminated prematurely within its generation. Nonetheless, we still consider it as same gen as PS4/One instead of calling it something from the PS3/360 gen.
I've seen some ppl claim the Wii U is a 7th gen console. I'm not surprised at that post you're responding to, lol.
 

hrœrekr

Member
May 3, 2019
227
The Saturns major market competitors were the other machines on the market from 1994 - its cancellation in 2000 name ly the PS1 and N64 . It also was in the market at the same time as the Gen/SNES and later Dreamcast, but that timing was minor compared to time spent on the market with the PS1 & N64 .

How much time did the Wii U compete with the 360/PS3 vs How Much time did it compete with the PS4/Xbox One?

Ranking by market competition makes sense here.
You are claiming Saturn and PS1 are same gen, while Dreamcast and PS1 as also same gen?
 

HairyFist87

Member
Jun 17, 2018
653
Dreamcast for me and I feel that anyone that says Xbox One are too young to have played a Dreamcast, that thing was a monster for arcade ports. Crazy Taxi, Powerstone, Shenmue!!, Soul Calibur, Metropolitan Street Racing, Quake 3. Such an awesome console back in its day.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
Question is about better exclusives not games that pushed tech more! Horizon pushed tech far higher than BotW but BotW is the game that was much better received, and it is a very influential game loved by developers and players alike.

And innovation =/= new titles only, Mario 3D World is very innovative and full of ideas from start to finish, Yoshi's art style is very innovative, Splatoon and MM and TW101 are all innovative.

You can lol as you wish but games like Crazy Taxy and ChuChu Rocket will never sell a console, at that time we already started having games like GTA3 (and i say this as person who did play Crazy Taxi to death).

Hyrule Warriors is actually a million seller, something few DC titles achieved. It is one of the better Musou games.

Wii U games are more meaty, more complete with better replay value, and their mechanics and level design are superior to DC games, or any other Sega games for the matter.

Man, the DC was a good console but the games were not attractive as much as you think, Wii U on the other hand was a failed console but its very strong exclusives left a strong impression and managed to sell extremely well for how bad the hardware did.

MK8 is going to sell at least a 25m copy on Switch and its originally a Wii U exclusive, thats how good and attractive it was.
If we really want to start comparing sales as a measure, then doesn't Xbox win by default ?

Also Software sales in 1999 are nowhere near comparable to Software sales in 2012. A game selling a million units was a big deal back then , selling 1 million units means hardly anything now , unless it was a low budget game or something.
The PS1 probably has lesser million sellers than the Wii U. Crazy Taxi selling 1 million back then is far more impressive than Hyrule Warriors selling a million.
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,081
Dreamcast forever in it's hayday

Even with ports, I think it has more than WiiU and Xbox after ports. Especially if you play Japanese games.
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,311
For Nintendo standards the Wii U didn't have good exclusives at all and it wasn't a good system.
Microsoft dropped the ball this gen.

So the Dreamcast easily wins this one.
 

Hucast

Member
Mar 25, 2019
3,086
Wii U also didnt have phantasy star online or any of the sort so it loses by default
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,040
If we really want to start comparing sales as a measure, then doesn't Xbox win by default ?

Also Software sales in 1999 are nowhere near comparable to Software sales in 2012. A game selling a million units was a big deal back then , selling 1 million units means hardly anything now , unless it was a low budget game or something.
The PS1 probably has lesser million sellers than the Wii U. Crazy Taxi selling 1 million back then is far more impressive than Hyrule Warriors selling a million.
Er, no your Wii U vs. PS1 comparison is way off given the total install base for PS1 vs. Wii U. Also selling 1 million units is still a big deal, vast majority of games will never sell close to that many copies.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,040
But it doesn’t count.
So mario kart, tokyo mirage sessions, dk tropical freeze all of that are not exclusives?
In that sense dreamcast has no exclusive. Everything was eventually ported to other console with very few exceptions..
Again, Dreamcast has lots of games that didnt receive ports to other systems. Even some of Sega's games, like Crazy Taxi 2, Dynamite Cop, Confidential Mission, Outtrigger, Zombie Revenge, etc.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
Er, no your Wii U vs. PS1 comparison is way off given the total install base for PS1 vs. Wii U. Also selling 1 million units is still a big deal, vast majority of games will never sell close to that many copies.
I was referring specifically to software sales though. My point was games sold lesser back then in general. Not really a fair comparison.
The best selling game of that Era would sell 10m. Nowadays most AAA games sell that much and the best selling games go over 50m units.
 

andresmoros

Member
Oct 29, 2017
590
Houston
Dreamcast had the best fighting game ever: Soul Calibur, and the awesome Power Stone. WiiU had an amazing Smash and a bunch of really good games. I think the WiiU wins by a small margin.
 

JayCeeJim

Member
Jan 3, 2019
106
It's clear to me that there are two approaches to this discussion:

Which console has better exclusives NOW, from a retro gamer perspective. Thus considering only the games that haven't ever been ported and remain exclusive, like Mario 3D World or Segagaga.

Or which console had better exclusives DURING ITS LIFESPAN. So, which games weren't available for other systems while the console was produced and on sale. Competing with the others. With this approach you can consider exclusive games like DK Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Shenmue or Sonic Adventure.

But it makes no sense to consider BOTW an exclusive, since it was on another system (Switch) from day one, or to exclude Crazy Taxi or Sonic Adventure because they got a port after Sega went third party and cancelled the Dreamcast project, Even though they released on other systems from technically the same gen, they weren't competing at that point.

IMO with the first approach Wii U wins because the last big Dreamcast game (Shenmue) was finally ported. But with the second approach it's Dreamcast by a long shot. Wii U had great games, but Dreamcast is one of gaming golden eras.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,040
I was referring specifically to software sales though. My point was games sold lesser back then in general. Not really a fair comparison.
The best selling game of that Era would sell 10m. Nowadays most AAA games sell that much and the best selling games go over 50m units.
Software sales were lower because the market was smaller overall, but the Wii U vs. PS1 comparison makes no sense because the PS1 market was way bigger than the Wii U market. The best selling PS1 games sold way more than the best selling Wii U games. It's not a fair comparison at all.

Also most of the 'best selling' games do not sell 50 million units. Only games that have multi-generational staying power like Minecraft sell those kind of numbers.
 

Lyrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,538
It's clear to me that there are two approaches to this discussion:

Which console has better exclusives NOW, from a retro gamer perspective. Thus considering only the games that haven't ever been ported and remain exclusive, like Mario 3D World or Segagaga.

Or which console had better exclusives DURING ITS LIFESPAN. So, which games weren't available for other systems while the console was produced and on sale. Competing with the others. With this approach you can consider exclusive games like DK Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Shenmue or Sonic Adventure.

But it makes no sense to consider BOTW an exclusive, since it was on another system (Switch) from day one, or to exclude Crazy Taxi or Sonic Adventure because they got a port after Sega went third party and cancelled the Dreamcast project, Even though they released on other systems from technically the same gen, they weren't competing at that point.

IMO with the first approach Wii U wins because the last big Dreamcast game (Shenmue) was finally ported. But with the second approach it's Dreamcast by a long shot. Wii U had great games, but Dreamcast is one of gaming golden eras.
Crazy Taxi was an Arcade game Just Like Soul Calibur (both were better on DC, but they were essentially enhanced ports)
 

JayCeeJim

Member
Jan 3, 2019
106
Crazy Taxi was an Arcade game Just Like Soul Calibur (both were better on DC, but they were essentially enhanced ports)
I know they were arcade games, and it's true that I didn't considered arcade in my reasoning.

But honestly I don't think it should count, because arcade is a fundamentally different experience/product (you have to pay each time you wanted to play, to begin with), and I don't think it really competed with consoles. I know nobody that passed on buying a Dreamcast or a PSOne or Saturn because they "liked the games but rather played them at the arcade", honestly.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
Software sales were lower because the market was smaller overall, but the Wii U vs. PS1 comparison makes no sense because the PS1 market was way bigger than the Wii U market. The best selling PS1 games sold way more than the best selling Wii U games. It's not a fair comparison at all.

Also most of the 'best selling' games do not sell 50 million units. Only games that have multi-generational staying power like Minecraft sell those kind of numbers.
You are basically agreeing with me. The comparison does NOT Make sense. Which is why the comparison between WiiU and Dreamcast Software sales also doesn't make sense.

As for games that sell 50m. There are other games like Pubg,Mario Kart,GTAV which have all achieved that feat. And even if 50m is too high. 10m is quite common for AAA games nowadays. Back then I think very few titles hit 10m like Gran Turismo and FF7.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,058
Jordan
Sorry, I didn't want to make it personal, of course. I generally don't care for the person, only the argument. And reading your original statement that "Wii U games were superior to any Sega game (or others)" really made my jaw drop a bit :-).

Your last point that "Nintendo at its top arguably deliver the best games from Japan" is much more reasonable, and I could agree with it even.
Thanks, and I understand why you felt that way, but it wasn't what I intended. I've always put gameplay over everything else and when I started playing Nintendo games, even late compared to other people here, I felt they specialize in this area in a unique way. for example... Super Mario Odyssey, where you catpure enemies abilities, the levels were designed with using many and completely different gameplay mechanics in the same level, and yet the fluidity of Mario's movement is unreal, he's responsive in an incredible way.

When Dreamcast/PS2 were in the market, I was actually discovering The Legend of Zelda series for the first time, and playing Ocarina of Time. despite being late, it still shocked me in a big way. at the time I was used to shorter games, not many games were really long, a game like MGS1 or RE didn't take more than couple of hours. when I finished Ocarina's third dungeon, I though the game is gonna end soon.

Imagine how I felt when I discovered that I actually finished only the "tutorial dungeons"... I almost couldn't believe lol. and it was even more amazing when I did enter the Forest Temple and experienced the huge jump in scale/design. after that, I can't miss any 3D Zelda game, the franchise turned into a system seller to me.

I felt the same about Sonic in the early 90's, but I didn't feel the same about the Dreamcast software. it was varied, and it had a lot of amazing games that I love and want to release as "Sega Ages" titles as soon as possible. but I feel there wasn't that very special title that you should experience no matter what. a lot of Dreamcast games to me felt like great ideas that needs more time and more content to turn into products that you truly can't miss. I feel Nintendo games are superior in terms of both content and gameplay design.

You're right that SEGA certainly could have used a giant mainstream exclusive . They arguably came pretty close with the NBA 2K and NFL 2K franchises.

I sometimes wish Rockstar had released GTA 3 as a Dreamcast exclusive. History might be very different if that had occurred.
Sega and Nintendo both relied on themselves too much at times. Fifa is a game that could've done wonders for the Dreamcast.
Mortal Kombat was the first game I've ever did play on the Mega Drive, and I did play Fifa a lot on it too.

Maybe if those and other titles I liked were on Dreamcast, I would've bought one. but I want to be honest, I regret not getting a Dreamcast deeply. I never thought it would be the last console from Sega. even though I didn't get one, reading about the news in magazines at the time was shocking and heartbreaking, I can't really imagine how many of you guys felt.

I won't argue that much of the dreamcast library catered to a more niche audience, with Sega historic strengths being in the arcades and those not being healthy at that point in time. That isn't what makes games "truly special" however, and that has always been a weak argument that people pick and choose to deploy only when it suits them. If the cited games are supposed to be true system sellers, then they would sell the system. This clearly didn't happen with the Wii U, despite the built in brand loyalty many of them enjoyed from being long running legacy IP.

There are actually very few games that really qualify as being "system sellers" in that they would get people to buy a system almost purely for them. Tetris, Super Mario Bros, Sonic the Hedgehog, Halo and Wii Fit are pretty much the entire list. Basically everything else has required a console to already have momentum to flourish. And of those that do, quality isn't generally a defining factor (a Bayonetta will never get close to the sales of Fallout 76).

Also, your GTA3 example is a game that didn't even release until months after the DC was discontinued.
GTA 3 was hot news, and other PS2 exclusives for many months before release, people knew those exclusives were coming. console games scale was starting to get really big even from PS1 days with games like Final Fantasy and Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid and others. but it felt to me like Sega and SNK were really stuck with the arcade mentality. I can't think of any truly big adventure game from Sega at the time other than Shenmue, which was probably meant to be Sega's answer to those titles.. but maybe it was too Asian to catch mainstream.

If we really want to start comparing sales as a measure, then doesn't Xbox win by default ?

Also Software sales in 1999 are nowhere near comparable to Software sales in 2012. A game selling a million units was a big deal back then , selling 1 million units means hardly anything now , unless it was a low budget game or something.
The PS1 probably has lesser million sellers than the Wii U. Crazy Taxi selling 1 million back then is far more impressive than Hyrule Warriors selling a million.
True, but still, it needed more hits, and more mainstream titles, in my humble opinion, to do better than it did. I think even when Sega became third party they still had difficulties to sell their games on GC/PS2/Xbox, and a lot of their games could not turn into franchises because of that.

You are basically agreeing with me. The comparison does NOT Make sense. Which is why the comparison between WiiU and Dreamcast Software sales also doesn't make sense.
I think software sales on Wii U is very exceptional even in today's market.

It is almost a miracle that a game like MK8 sold 8.4m copies on a failed console that only did ~13m itself.

Vita sold a bit more than Wii U worldwide and its best selling games don't come even close to what MK8 or SM3DW did.

I think even PSP and maybe Xbox One don't have any exclusive games that sold that much, and those did much better than the Wii U

for a failed console, exclusives sales on Wii U are very impressive in my opinion.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,040
You are basically agreeing with me. The comparison does NOT Make sense. Which is why the comparison between WiiU and Dreamcast Software sales also doesn't make sense.

As for games that sell 50m. There are other games like Pubg,Mario Kart,GTAV which have all achieved that feat. And even if 50m is too high. 10m is quite common for AAA games nowadays. Back then I think very few titles hit 10m like Gran Turismo and FF7.
GTAV and Mario Kart are games with multi-generational staying power. But yes overall sales are higher because the market has grown substantially. That has nothing to do with Wii U specifically though, which never captured much of the market. A Wii U game selling 1 million is more impressive than a PS1 game selling 1 million because the number of Wii U's out there was way less than the number of PS1's out there during time.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
I think software sales on Wii U is very exceptional even in today's market.

It is almost a miracle that a game like MK8 sold 8.4m copies on a failed console that only did ~13m itself.

Vita sold a bit more than Wii U worldwide and its best selling games don't come even close to what MK8 or SM3DW did.

I think even PSP and maybe Xbox One don't have any exclusive games that sold that much, and those did much better than the Wii U

for a failed console, exclusives sales on Wii U are very impressive in my opinion.
It is impressive , but I just dont find the sales comparison to be a good enough measure. Even if we were to strictly compare Nintendo consoles. I would say the Gamecube had better exclusives even though WiiU had better software sales.

Also one game selling a lot doesn't mean the console has more overall mainstream appeal. Nintendo software sell more than PS , but I wouldn't say the PS has less mainstream appeal. There could be a wider variety of titles that mean a lot different audiences are buying the console.

Another factor is Dreamcast's extremely short lifespan. Even though lifetime sales are comparable to Wii U , a good chunk of those sales are actually due to clearance of stock at $50 a piece.
The Dreamcast was active on the market for 2 years( 1999-2001 ) , while the Wii U was roughly 4.5 years until the Switch came out.
Piracy was also a huge issue on the Dreamcast , people could easily just download games and burn them.

A lot of factors show that Software sales isn't exactly an accurate representation of what went wrong with the Dreamcast. It literally had so many things stacked against it.
 
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OP
Denman

Denman

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,861
It's clear to me that there are two approaches to this discussion:

Which console has better exclusives NOW, from a retro gamer perspective. Thus considering only the games that haven't ever been ported and remain exclusive, like Mario 3D World or Segagaga.

Or which console had better exclusives DURING ITS LIFESPAN. So, which games weren't available for other systems while the console was produced and on sale. Competing with the others. With this approach you can consider exclusive games like DK Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Shenmue or Sonic Adventure.


I really should have clarified this in the OP. I definitely considered it during its lifespan.

So Jet Set Radio would be an exclusive.
Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is an exclusive.
BOTW does NOT count as an exclusive.
Resident Evil Code Veronica is NOT an exclusive (it launched later on PS2)

I also sort of didn't consider X1-->PC ports as it's all in the Xbox family and not a console competitor.
So Halo 5 would count as an Xbox One exclusive.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
Resident Evil Code Veronica is NOT an exclusive (it launched later on PS2)
Didn't it come to PS2 after the Dreamcast stopped production though?

Its a different situation , because Sega wanted to transition to a 3rd party Asap and they wanted to port their titles before they started looking outdated like Sonic Adventure 2,Crazy Taxi,Shenmue...etc. Same thing with other companies that put out exclusives on the DC.
 
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Bing147

Member
Jun 13, 2018
6
Ya, I have to go Dreamcast whether you mean in its day or today.

In its day you had Jet Grind Radio, Space Channel 5, Samba de Amigo, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2, Phantasy Star Online, Seaman, Ecco the Dolphin Defender of the Future, Shenmue, Power Stone 2, Toy Commander, Rez, NBA 2K, NFL 2K, Virtua Tennis, Zombie Revenge, and then one of the best lineups any system has ever had of fighting games and SHMUPS which only aren't listed here because someone will argue that arcades make them non exclusives which is kind of silly.

Even now if I can take arcade games with no other ports I take Dreamcast. All the Wii U has left which hasn't been ported are Wonderful 101, Mario 3D Land, Xenoblade Chronicles X and Pikmin 3...
 

Synth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
GTA 3 was hot news, and other PS2 exclusives for many months before release, people knew those exclusives were coming. console games scale was starting to get really big even from PS1 days with games like Final Fantasy and Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid and others. but it felt to me like Sega and SNK were really stuck with the arcade mentality. I can't think of any truly big adventure game from Sega at the time other than Shenmue, which was probably meant to be Sega's answer to those titles.. but maybe it was too Asian to catch mainstream.
Yes, games like GTA3 were hot news months before their release... however GTA3 was far enough out at the time the DC launched that GTA2 launched after the Dreamcast did. I honestly think you're looking back on the 6th gen as a whole and attributing far too much of what came over the course of that generation to what actually existed during the years the Dreamcast was active.

I definitely feel like you're underselling the scope of a lot of Sega's Dreamcast output, along with some of the other support it was receiving at the time. You mention above Resident Evil... where Sega received a (then) exclusive entry long before Nintendo eventually would. You say you can't think of any truly big adventure game "other than Shenmue" as though Nintendo were drowning in Ocarina of Times. Shenmue was literally the most AAA game in existence at that point, dwarfing the scale and production values of every Nintendo game in existence.

Much of their other output compares favorably also. Sonic Adventure was a platformer that had a fully voiced cast of heroes and enemies, numerous FMV cutscenes and what was for the time the equivalent of Naughty Dog setpieces (you've almost certainly heard people talk endlessly about the first time they ran from the whale destroying the bridge). There frankly was no equivalent to it within its genre on any platform.

Even in other genres that had more arcade-based origins the games weren't lacking for content and production. MSR was basically the Forza Horizon of its day, mapping out 3 cities in painstaking detail. Soul Calibur was far and away the most feature packed fighting game in existence, and wouldn't be challenged by another until Virtua Fighter 4 Evo.

Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid and Grand Theft Auto were still the exceptions of the gaming market, not at all the norm yet, and Shenmue was arguably the only first-party undertaking that even began to approach their level of Hollywood ambition. With titles like Phantasy Star Online, Skies of Arcadia, Ecco, D2, Headhunter, Jet Set Radio, MSR and Sega GT... Sega were very easily operating on the same scale of games that Nintendo were, alongside their notable arcade output. Comparing Sega of that period to SNK is absolutely ridiculous.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,058
Jordan
Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid and Grand Theft Auto were still the exceptions of the gaming market, not at all the norm yet, and Shenmue was arguably the only first-party undertaking that even began to approach their level of Hollywood ambition. With titles like Phantasy Star Online, Skies of Arcadia, Ecco, D2, Headhunter, Jet Set Radio, MSR and Sega GT... Sega were very easily operating on the same scale of games that Nintendo were, alongside their notable arcade output. Comparing Sega of that period to SNK is absolutely ridiculous.
I compared the mentality, not the output, my friend. what you said is very reasonable and a view I respect, but I have different perception on how things went at the time, and I remember that gen very well. Outside of hardcore players circles the games didn't turn heads to the degree you are imagining. for example many people didn't like Shenmue or didn't become interested in it because of - in their view - slow pacing and simulation-like experience. MGS2, now this is a game that people were very excited to play, and it did offer a much better storytelling, script, voice acting, and cut-scenes direction than Shenmue. it is a great game, but also a failed product that couldn't achieve its objective as it failed to catch interest, and achieving that objective was "crucial" for a first party company. if BotW didn't turn out to be as groundbreaking, accessible, and fun as it is, Switch would've never did as amazing as it is doing now. you can say the same about Mario Kart 8 or Splatoon, the mechanics are extremely responsive and can provide instant fun to almost anyone. this is not an easy thing to achieve at all.
 
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Remapped88

Member
Oct 27, 2017
480
USA
This thread just reminds me that I need ports of Project Justice and Tech Romancer....and maybe Cannon Spike since I never played that.
 

DiK4

Member
Nov 4, 2017
570
Tough one. Wii U had a quite few good ones until the Switch, but it's biggest and best (Breath of the Wild) ended up launching day 1 on the Switch. Dreamcast only had a solid 2 years of life though before its exclusives started getting ported.

In fairness, comparing the first 2 years of the Wii U vs. Dreamcast.... DC wins hands down.
 

JayCeeJim

Member
Jan 3, 2019
106
Ya, I have to go Dreamcast whether you mean in its day or today.

In its day you had Jet Grind Radio, Space Channel 5, Samba de Amigo, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia 2, Phantasy Star Online, Seaman, Ecco the Dolphin Defender of the Future, Shenmue, Power Stone 2, Toy Commander, Rez, NBA 2K, NFL 2K, Virtua Tennis, Zombie Revenge, and then one of the best lineups any system has ever had of fighting games and SHMUPS which only aren't listed here because someone will argue that arcades make them non exclusives which is kind of silly.

Even now if I can take arcade games with no other ports I take Dreamcast. All the Wii U has left which hasn't been ported are Wonderful 101, Mario 3D Land, Xenoblade Chronicles X and Pikmin 3...
Sorry to nitpick, but IIRC, Rez had a simultaneous release with PS2, so it shouldn't count as an exclusive just like BOTW. Agree with the rest, though.