What if Pikmin 4 adopts Nintendo's new 'open' approach to game design?

[purseowner]

Was thinking about this last night whilst playing Odyssey.

Both Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey expand and redefine the traditions of their respective series within a larger, more open and freeform framework of exploration.

Would you want Pikmin 4 to adopt a Breath of the Wild approach to an open world, with treasures scattered across one large sprawling world, with Pikmin types acquirable in any order and bosses/caves (please bring them back) tacklable in any order? The idea of this makes me giddy with excitement.

Or would you rather the only thing shared between Odyssey and Pikmin 4 was a 'minature garden' approach to world scope which has defined the series' environments up until now?

Steal all my Pik Pik carrots if this has been discussed at length before.

 

[LewieP]

Would be kind of cool to be constructing a space ship that you yourself pilot between different areas/planets.

 

[ZachiJP]

Would easily be my GOTY if they did either of those ideas. I like the idea of a giant overworld, and using the caves for different "stages" or types of areas.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

Your ideas would be a great way to significantly increase the popularly of the Pikmin franchise. I'm all for it.

 

[Dyle]

Pikmin was already fairly close to this structure with how many collectibles were in every level, so I'd expect them to continue pushing in that direction even further. I The only thing that would make it difficult is the day/night cycle, which kind of requires a stop and go, session based structure rather than a free-flowing, open world structure, but I imagine there would be ways to work around that and make a more fleshed out open world possible.

 

[Nesther]

Your idea makes me giddy as well. Hoping the reason why we haven't heard anything from them in awhile is because they're turning the game into an ambitious open world title.

 

[sfortunato]

I feel Pikmin 3 said everything it could have been said in terms of gameplay given the specific genre. I do feel opening up environment could be a huge plus, but Nintendo must strike a balance between the open structure and the tactical gameplay otherwise the gamer could feel totally lost.

 

[Wislizeni]

It could be really neat if done right. Haven't played BOTW, but I know I'd love a Pikmin where I can approach multiple areas and their respective objectives in whatever order I please. That said, I prefer my Pikmin with a timer, and I'm not sure if both concepts would work together well. Maybe if the primary objective wasn't a do-or-die situation, and it was more about seeing how much you can achieve within the time given.

 

[tolkir]

Yes, I'm in for a Pikmin game with a Little King Story focus and open world.

 

[audiophilistine]

Sounds amazing, TBH, although tying in the tight day-night cycle with a large open world might take some balancing.

 

[Balbanes]

I'm not even a big open world fan (BotW and Witcher 3 being recent exceptions that I really enjoyed) but I think your idea is a great one. I think it would fit the franchise perfectly. Some sort of town or base building mechanics would be really neat as well.

 

[BeatNinja]

Sounds amazing, TBH, although tying in the tight day-night cycle with a large open world might take some balancing.

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They could be daring and let you explore at night, but it should be a high risk high reward scenario. Like, maybe even more risk than reward. Maybe you could bunker down underground during the night and have Pikmin explore caves while you wait for the sun to come up.

The possibilities are really endless if they took the BOTW approach with Pikmin, and I think it could really turn out well.

 

[BorkBork]

I'm up for them experimenting with the franchise. Every main entry in the series has changed things up but none of them have felt like they have been made redundant. So bring on something new!

 

[Seppala]

I think this would work super well. Maybe put up small Pikmin outposts across the world (they woould also function as fast travel points). and bring back Pikmin 2 multiplayer!

 

[unagi]

I heard that Nintendo has some experimental titles for the coming year and maybe it is one of them.

 

[Lord Azrael]

I agree with those saying that if Nintendo were to do something like this they'd have to figure out how to make it work with the timer. Maybe have you be able to unlock different starting points on the map? It would certainly be an exciting, fresh take on the series.

 

['3y Kingdom]

They could be daring and let you explore at night, but it should be a high risk high reward scenario. Like, maybe even more risk than reward. Maybe you could bunker down underground during the night and have Pikmin explore caves while you wait for the sun to come up.

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This sounds like a great idea.

 

[Datajoy]

Wow in my mental list of Switch games to expect in the next couple years I have somehow been totally omitting Pikmin 4. I wish you wouldn't have reminded me, then I would have been totally stunned and by the inevitable reveal next year, haha.

I like your idea of a more open and non-linear experience, especially the point about having Pikmin types being acquirable in any order. I think this would be a cool way to incrementalize progress and encourage thorough exploration of areas and Metroid-style backtracking. A freer or more variable camera would be awesome too.

 

[Deleted member 11926]

Btw, what's actually up with Pikmin 4? Hasn't Miyamoto said at one point that it was pretty much done?

 

[-shadow-]

Isn't the series already kind of like this, just a bit more structured in levels that are separated instead of interconnected? The third one had some pretty big locations with caves and many different pieces of fruits to collect. Just that some of the locations were gated off from one another. Making that seamless would be pretty cool.

Btw, what's actually up with Pikmin 4? Hasn't Miyamoto said at one point that it was pretty much done?

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Yeah, but it's Miyamoto. I don't get why people still take his word at face value. He's said similar things about other games which took another five years to be released. Take it with a truckload of salt.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

This is the one series where I'm clamouring for an "open" format in the form of a Metroid-like one-world contiguity, actually. So far all of the Pikmin games have been fairly segmented, and you open up new zones by reaching specific milestones like clearing bosses. But imagine, given the tech to handle it, if instead of following the loop of finding key items and opening up discrete areas, you had to attain access to new areas by claiming new landing sites (by reaching them like the towers in BotW or beacons in Xenoblade X) or constructing remote-base shelters to house your Pikmin at night, steadily expanding the reach of your army day by day. Like an empire-builder, almost, where you creep towards ever greater map control that yields access to new resource types (i.e. Pikmin colours, or raising your cap on Pikmin per colour), but with the traditional Pikmin explore-and-collect interaction at its core.

Pikmin 3 already went a long way towards conceiving of its zones as a Metroid-like series of locks and keys; now imagine if the zone progression itself was a product of connected outward exploration, resource management, and strategic choice.

 

[ryechu]

It had better still have a mission mode or some version of contained and dense multitasking challenge. Silver Lake is still one of the best designed maps in the pikmin series.

I think a small size is important, because there is something about your captain's and their pikmin's paths crossing that really aids in feeling the 'efficiency high' of multitasking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsEyujMATFI&t=5m

You also have to consider the distance to the base camp. Is an open world experience worth trading the whole time management, 'bring all items to the spaceship/onion' mechanic? I'm not convinced.

 

[Ocarina_117]

I brought this up in the discord I found my self in.

But imagine the approach taken with Odyssey and BoTW being adopted by Metroid prime 4. Imagine a game which truly pushes the metroidvania genre toward in 3d space.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

Sigh, No I wouldn't want that at all. I'm not a big fan of open world stuff (I don't think it "evolves" anything or makes it better) and what you described doesn't touch on what I love about Pikmin.
Like yeah...I'd probably play the thing that you described and maybe enjoy it to some extent...
but I don't want every Nintendo IP to go open world/sandbox-y, especially Pikmin.
At least with Zelda and Mario there is some precedent to explore that avenue of game design and improve on what they did in the past.

I mean, If Sonic Mania is any indication game designers can easily play with and turn expectations on their head without completely changing up the whole structure of a franchise.
Like one clear and simple example in Mania's case is how the fire shield now burns multiple flammable objects (wood, oil, etc.)
This may sound simple but it changes up the game play dynamics; there are a lot of times when the fire shield burning things will lead you to completely new paths or even hinder your progress by dropping you off the higher path you were on.
AFAIK, this concept was NEVER fully explored in any of the mainline platformers (3D or 2D) BUT it created a fresh and novel experience that never appeared in Sonic before.
I'd love to see a lot of new "WOAH! Of course fire can do that, that's brilliant!" type mechanics in Pikmin 4 before we get a complete structure change.

 

[Deleted member 2793]

Only played the two first games, but I felt like Pikmin 2 was worse than the first one because of the caves. While I love me some dungeons, the lack of a time limit made the game less unique - Pikmin management also barely matters that way, you'll just want all the Pikmin with you all the time instead of sending different groups to do different stuff.

That's why I don't know if giving even more freedom to the player would work. If time limit is in, an open world game could work very well, but only if level design keeps tight and well crafted.

 

[Clefargle]

If they want to experiment, try removing the timer please

 

[Paradox House]

I thought Pikmin 3 was perfect. Dont see the need for a huge change just add some new elements/ideas.

 

[Virtu Al]

I think what I could imagine is not an open world approach as much as a sort of metroidvania-style game. Have a big maze-like world with different sections that you can only explore once your Pikmin learned special moves or formations. After Pikmin 3 and its DLC I'd really love to have a title partially set inside urban settings too, it'd make for some very interesting environments to explore.

 

[jariw]

Yeah, but it's Miyamoto. I don't get why people still take his word at face value. He's said similar things about other games which took another five years to be released. Take it with a truckload of salt.

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I would take the word of Miyamoto/Tezuka/Aonuma/etc at face value, if I'd know Japanese and hear them say the words themselves - or if someone fluent in Japanese could explain to me exactly what the meanings of the spoken words are. Regarding western journalists reporting about Japanese developers, I just feel that there are way too many layers (culture/language/translator/journalist) between them and me.

 

[PetrCobra]

I could see it work and still be brilliant, just don't mess with my multiplayer TOO much. That's the game's primary mode for me and P3 is already near perfect so I'm afraid of any change that would be too drastic. The transition from 2 to 3 was for the better in this regard though, which is why I have high hopes. Anyway, just finally give me a damn release date at least.

 

[Nintendojitsu]

The only thing that would make either of those ideas any better is if it was with a team of other explorers online.

 

[purseowner]

The only thing that would make either of those ideas any better is if it was with a team of other explorers online.

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Many cool ideas have been brought up in this thread so far but YES.

I never knew how much I wanted this.

 

[Nikpls]

I brought this up in the discord I found my self in.

But imagine the approach taken with Odyssey and BoTW being adopted by Metroid prime 4. Imagine a game which truly pushes the metroidvania genre toward in 3d space.

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YES. I really want Prime 4 to follow the BOTW formular on a smaller scale, though I'm not sure if I would prefer one big planet or multiple smaller ones. There's definitely hope for this, now that it's a first party game.

 

[RandomTiger]

Btw, what's actually up with Pikmin 4? Hasn't Miyamoto said at one point that it was pretty much done?

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Miyamoto has brought it up a couple of times but as far as I'm aware its not officially announced at all. Hoping that its just a WiiU to Switch transition that's caused the delay. My dream is GC virtual console for Pikmin 1 & 2, a Deluxe version of 3 for switch and finally 4 at some point.

 

[Naner]

Sorry to necrobump, but I just had the same idea talking about Pikmin 4 with friends (and I was about to create a thread but decided to search). I absolutely agree that going open-world is the most interesting thing the series could do right now, and would be a perfect fit for the gameplay.

Also co-op campaign please? I guess that's a given because of "share the joy" though. We can still have smaller multiplayer challenges.

 

[Deleted member 249]

Well, now I'll be disappointed when this doesn't happen

 

[Gobias-Ind]

Man, I can hardly remember how this series plays, but I'm imagining a high production, Don't Starve-esque game in the Pikmin universe and I'm currently trying to preorder that game on Amazon.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

I think we're not seeing any Pikmin games for the next 5 years or so. Maybe there is a port of 3 announced?

Will eat delicious crow if it gets announced in this E3 nevertheless.

 

[ClickyCal']

Wasn't there that rumor way back from LKD that pikmin 4 was being reworked into a reboot called pikmin world? Have certain insiders here heard anything about that?

I think we're not seeing any Pikmin games for the next 5 years or so. Maybe there is a port of 3 announced?

Will eat delicious crow if it gets announced in this E3 nevertheless.

Click to shrink...

Miyamoto said 3 years ago the game was almost done. If it takes 8 years to make pikmin 4, it better be literally the most amazing game ever made, or they just scrapped the game and will make it later.

 

[Meelow]

The thing about Pikmin 4 too is that it's the first built from the group up HD game, they have much more memory, etc. Where Pikmin 3 started off as a Wii title for a few years and then pushed to Wii U.

 

[Wackamole]

Maybe it could work. But these games have such great level design... especially 3.

 

[raterpillar]

It would just straight-up be better for the series. If the graphics would suffer it would be a shame though - one of the best aspects of Pikmin is how pretty it makes tiny things look. I hope they really pursue a macro photography look with the next one, with blurred out foregrounds and backgrounds - that would be sicko.
I think they should semi-ditch, or make the elemental lock-key puzzle aspect more interesting though. Like, make red pikmin immune to fire but also flammable so they can catch on fire and burn enemies/spread fire around. Make rock pikmin able to tuck their leaves/limbs in to camouflage themselves and make traps. Make Pikmin carry items that you can actually use in combat - like catapaults (that can launch pikmin) or shields they can hide under/behind etc.
Also, one pet peeve I have: make water less lethal for pikmin. Either they drown slower or the only way they can get out of the water is to be rescued by blues. Accidentally losing some to water due to the camera is a huge pain in the ass.
It would also be cool if more enemies prioritised attacks on Olimar/whoever - I never feel personally in danger, just scared for the Pikmin.

 

[CloseTalker]

Questions like these are tough for me to answer. I'm not a game designer, and the question usually isn't as simple as "What if Pikmin but open?". So while the initial sheer concept of a more open ended Pikmin might make me feel one way or the other, it's really hard to form an educated opinion without kind of knowing what they're going for.

So in short, I'm no really against the idea, I would just want to know more.

 

[Dinobot]

Odyssey suffered from being more open imo and a game like Pikmin 4 lives and dies by its tightly designed levels.

Get rid of the timer, maybe have a hub on each map, and clear the map out before moving on to the next map.

More like a pseudo open world like State of Decay 2.

 

[raterpillar]

Odyssey suffered from being more open imo and a game like Pikmin 4 lives and dies by its tightly designed levels.

Get rid of the timer, maybe have a hub on each map, and clear the map out before moving on to the next map.

More like a pseudo open world like State of Decay 2.

Click to shrink...

NO. It makes me anxious as hell, but it's critical to making pikmin a strategy/planning game. I think it would be better to just allow you to play at night and just show how super dangerous it is.

 

[Lakershead22]

I don't care how they do it...just give me Pikmin 4. Pikmin is top 3 in my favorite Nintendo franchises.

 

[NuclearCake]

Just bring the structure from Pikmin 2 back.

 

[Deleted member 44288]

I don't know about a new approach but ever since Epic Yarn I have wanted to see the game use claymation in a way that resembles how they looked on the Pikmin 2 cover.

 

[Giga Man]

I want it to revert back to Pikmin 1, meaning one captain only and more arcadey with a bigger focus on time management and planning ahead. Never bring back caves from Pikmin 2.

 

[Vylder]

I'd love Pikmin 4 to take place in a big city, with giant humans being everywhere, etc.