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What is the boldest, most radical reimagining of an established series ever?

#1
I'm around 15 hours into Super Mario 64

I just dispelled the yellow frog and now I'm inside the heart of Tall Tall Mountain, just used the giant cannon thingie to go to the higher level with the cloud jet traps in the beginning

and I have to say, this is a much bolder re-imagining for an established franchise than I have ever seen in this industry, personally.

Games like Breath of the Wild, Resident Evil 4 (or 7) and the like were huge changes for their respective franchises, but even though they were radically different from their predecessors, there was still quite a lot that they retained, not just in terms of nebulous concepts like the "feel" and "atmosphere", but also specific gameplay mechanics or design philosophies. This new Mario, though, is just so different from the 2D-era games. I mean, it still feels like a Super Mario game thanks to its tone, Mario, and the general nebulous "feel" of the experience, but in almost every way that can be put down on paper, this is nothing like the previous Super Mario games.

The only similarities I've been able to spot are very minor things- like using B to lift heavy objects at times, or collecting coins, or spike hazards in the environments, or upgrading your health meter via collectibles. And it all just works so well- most, if not all, of these changes are for the better, I'd say. Probably for the first time ever, I'm having as much fun playing Super Mario as I am gawking at the scope and spectacle (if not more so).

Even if this massive re-imagining hadn't worked out, I'd say Nintendo would still deserve props for the huge risk they've taken. Good thing it paid off though, because so far this is one hell of a game, and if the rest of it is as good as it has been up until now (or gets better, like I suspect it will), it might end up becoming one of my favourite games of all time.


NOTE: Please use spoiler tags in your posts whenever applicable! :)

EDIT: A lot of you seem to be understanding (I guess I was clear about what I was trying to say), and I'm
saying this is a completely new way to play games. Even close. It doesn't borrow heavily from other genres, even other Nintendo first party titles, as many of you have pointed out. I'm saying it's a bold shift for the series and for the industry or for video games as a medium at large.

(Credit to https://www.resetera.com/threads/go...magining-of-an-established-series-ever.37773/ for the thread idea.)
 
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Oct 25, 2017
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#3
I am curious as to what motivated Nintendo to make a Collectathon when the genre was unbuilt. I feel like the Crash Bandicoot style would be the natural step for a 2D platformer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#13
I agree. What’s crazy is that just because of the sheer joy of movement, it still feels like Mario, with only a passing resemblance to the 2D platformers. It basically invented, codified, and perfected the 3D platformer on the first try.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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#14
I am curious as to what motivated Nintendo to make a Collectathon when the genre was unbuilt. I feel like the Crash Bandicoot style would be the natural step for a 2D platformer.
I'd guess they wanted big open areas to highlight the 3d, but at that point realized it wasn't feasible to make one original course for each "level", then came up with the idea of spreading stars around the same locations or revisiting them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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#23
eh i dunno about "re-imagining" . just a very refined version of what was groundbreaking about SMB1 translated to 3D. like nobody was playing this in '96 saying 'this isn't your father's mario'
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#24
I am curious as to what motivated Nintendo to make a Collectathon when the genre was unbuilt. I feel like the Crash Bandicoot style would be the natural step for a 2D platformer.
It's not really a collectathon, the only thing to collect are the Stars which are kind of just a 3D representation of the flag pole or fade to black of previous Mario games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#26
The title is talking about the re-imagining of a franchise. At least Metroid Prime became a FPS. I'd say that is more of a re-imagining.
you don't think they had to re-imagine Mario for 3D? I mean, I could start listing a ton of points like coins refilling your health instead of the typical small Mario -> big Mario -> powerup Mario however I feel like if that's your starting point it'd be a waste of time on my part
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Sydney
#27
I feel like Metroid Prime deserves to be somewhere in this conversation
It was bold by going first person, and brilliant, but didn't change the design, just made it work in 3D. You could have literally re-made Super Metroid that way with that engine.

Crash Bandicoot or Mario 3D Land/World is really what Super Mario Bros in 3D would be. Mario 64 instead made much more use of the 3D jump than those much more limited games did.

While a huge step for that series, it's nowhere near as important, bold, or revolutionary. It just took a lot of what Mario 64 and Ocarina already did and applied it to the gameplay template of GTA1, and added story.

Mario 64 informed the future. GTA3 is an evolution of that future Mario 64 (and Ocarina) formed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
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Mexicali, Mexico
#28
I actually never liked Mario 64, even when I loved my 64 to death. I never liked 3D Mario until Galaxy.

Also, Wolfestein deserves a mention with the reimagining between Castle Wolfestein and Wolfestein 3D.

Edit: Now that this has been reopened, I update my post with pics.




Going from a top-down action-adventure game with enfasis on stealth and keys, to this:

 
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Oct 25, 2017
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#30
I feel like Metroid Prime deserves to be somewhere in this conversation
Ehhhhh... Metroid Prime's game design is at its core "Super Metroid 3D" even with all the evolution it has.

Mario 64 is practically unrecognizable from its predecessors. A proto-Open World, Collect-a-thon structure, a vastly expanded moveset for Mario to use beyond Run and Jump - A far cry from the Arcade Side-Scrolling stage-based platforming of prior entries.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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#33
I think the leap into the 3rd dimension deserves more credit than any actual re-imagining of the franchise. Mario 64 is a treasure, of that there is no doubt. But it's not to say that it didn't benefit greatly from also being the first.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#34
eh i dunno about "re-imagining" . just a very refined version of what was groundbreaking about SMB1 translated to 3D. like nobody was playing this in '96 saying 'this isn't your father's mario'
I mean, it's not, though. SMB1 translated into 3D is Crash Bandicoot. Or even something like a pared down Super Mario 3D land. It only seems like a natural progression because it was how Nintendo chose to progress.

They went from linear course-based gameplay to a series of 3D sandboxes.
 

SweetNicole

Community Manager
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
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#36
Please don't make troll/parody threads.

Official Staff Communication
We're reopening this thread for discussion with an appropriate title change.
 
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OP
OP
InteractiveSoftwareUser
#37
eh i dunno about "re-imagining" . just a very refined version of what was groundbreaking about SMB1 translated to 3D. like nobody was playing this in '96 saying 'this isn't your father's mario'
Which part of SMB1 did Nintendo just refine to create SM64?

I'd wager that plenty of Mario-fan fathers uttered that very phrase to their children while playing SM64 in 1996.
 
#40
I am curious as to what motivated Nintendo to make a Collectathon when the genre was unbuilt. I feel like the Crash Bandicoot style would be the natural step for a 2D platformer.
Yeah they easily could have made 3D World/Land as the first big 3D Mario instead.
They designed around the 3D space being novel, and used it more than the hallway/perspective fixed style, and I'm eternally grateful for it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Buffalo, NY
#48
While a huge step for that series, it's nowhere near as important, bold, or revolutionary. It just took a lot of what Mario 64 and Ocarina already did and applied it to the gameplay template of GTA1, and added story.

Mario 64 informed the future. GTA3 is an evolution of that future Mario 64 (and Ocarina) formed.
The question wasn't about whether or not it copied a game though.

OP asked about games that had a big reimagining of the franchise. I'd say GTA3 fits that mold quite well, compared to GTA1 and 2.

Another good one would be Fallout 3.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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#50
god knows MGSV would be front-runner if Kojima & friends had been able to finish the game
Ugh, this still hurts. MGSV is simultaneously my favorite and least favorite MGS game

I thought the gameplay mechanics were brilliant and they finally cleaned up the controls. The "story" (lack thereof) and presentation were so completely lacking

In ways, it was the polar opposite of MGS4