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InteractiveSoftwareUser

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Oct 25, 2017
472
I'm around 15 hours into Super Mario 64

I just dispelled the yellow frog and now I'm inside the heart of Tall Tall Mountain, just used the giant cannon thingie to go to the higher level with the cloud jet traps in the beginning

and I have to say, this is a much bolder re-imagining for an established franchise than I have ever seen in this industry, personally.

Games like Breath of the Wild, Resident Evil 4 (or 7) and the like were huge changes for their respective franchises, but even though they were radically different from their predecessors, there was still quite a lot that they retained, not just in terms of nebulous concepts like the "feel" and "atmosphere", but also specific gameplay mechanics or design philosophies. This new Mario, though, is just so different from the 2D-era games. I mean, it still feels like a Super Mario game thanks to its tone, Mario, and the general nebulous "feel" of the experience, but in almost every way that can be put down on paper, this is nothing like the previous Super Mario games.

The only similarities I've been able to spot are very minor things- like using B to lift heavy objects at times, or collecting coins, or spike hazards in the environments, or upgrading your health meter via collectibles. And it all just works so well- most, if not all, of these changes are for the better, I'd say. Probably for the first time ever, I'm having as much fun playing Super Mario as I am gawking at the scope and spectacle (if not more so).

Even if this massive re-imagining hadn't worked out, I'd say Nintendo would still deserve props for the huge risk they've taken. Good thing it paid off though, because so far this is one hell of a game, and if the rest of it is as good as it has been up until now (or gets better, like I suspect it will), it might end up becoming one of my favourite games of all time.


NOTE: Please use spoiler tags in your posts whenever applicable! :)

EDIT: A lot of you seem to be understanding (I guess I was clear about what I was trying to say), and I'm
saying this is a completely new way to play games. Even close. It doesn't borrow heavily from other genres, even other Nintendo first party titles, as many of you have pointed out. I'm saying it's a bold shift for the series and for the industry or for video games as a medium at large.

(Credit to https://www.resetera.com/threads/go...magining-of-an-established-series-ever.37773/ for the thread idea.)
 
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Weiss

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Oct 25, 2017
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I am curious as to what motivated Nintendo to make a Collectathon when the genre was unbuilt. I feel like the Crash Bandicoot style would be the natural step for a 2D platformer.
 

WadeIt0ut

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,985
Iowa
It has mostly characters already used in previous games and similar art aesthetics. And it's still a platformer it was just 3D. I wouldn't consider it a re-imaging.
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
I agree. What's crazy is that just because of the sheer joy of movement, it still feels like Mario, with only a passing resemblance to the 2D platformers. It basically invented, codified, and perfected the 3D platformer on the first try.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 28, 2017
9,369
I am curious as to what motivated Nintendo to make a Collectathon when the genre was unbuilt. I feel like the Crash Bandicoot style would be the natural step for a 2D platformer.

I'd guess they wanted big open areas to highlight the 3d, but at that point realized it wasn't feasible to make one original course for each "level", then came up with the idea of spreading stars around the same locations or revisiting them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,426
Sweden
i never liked it

there're like 3 or 4 actual interesting platforming levels

the rest is just chores, exploring and collecting

it was too much of a reimagining for me
 

AfterTheFall

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Oct 27, 2017
1,608
From what I've played God of War is fairly different from the ones I played on PS3. Mario 64 was absolutely incredible, I still adore it.
 

The Last One

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Oct 25, 2017
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Both Zelda OoT and Mario 64 felt like the perfect convertion to the 3D space based on their past games.
 

Opa-Opa

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Oct 16, 2018
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A radical change, fur sure.

Zelda OoT was the one that really made me shocked on how they could retain everything and still change everything.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,095
eh i dunno about "re-imagining" . just a very refined version of what was groundbreaking about SMB1 translated to 3D. like nobody was playing this in '96 saying 'this isn't your father's mario'
 

TI92

Alt account
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Oct 25, 2017
5,598
I am curious as to what motivated Nintendo to make a Collectathon when the genre was unbuilt. I feel like the Crash Bandicoot style would be the natural step for a 2D platformer.
It's not really a collectathon, the only thing to collect are the Stars which are kind of just a 3D representation of the flag pole or fade to black of previous Mario games.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
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Aug 6, 2018
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220px-GTA3boxcover.jpg
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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The title is talking about the re-imagining of a franchise. At least Metroid Prime became a FPS. I'd say that is more of a re-imagining.

you don't think they had to re-imagine Mario for 3D? I mean, I could start listing a ton of points like coins refilling your health instead of the typical small Mario -> big Mario -> powerup Mario however I feel like if that's your starting point it'd be a waste of time on my part
 

D.Lo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,347
Sydney
I feel like Metroid Prime deserves to be somewhere in this conversation
It was bold by going first person, and brilliant, but didn't change the design, just made it work in 3D. You could have literally re-made Super Metroid that way with that engine.

Crash Bandicoot or Mario 3D Land/World is really what Super Mario Bros in 3D would be. Mario 64 instead made much more use of the 3D jump than those much more limited games did.

While a huge step for that series, it's nowhere near as important, bold, or revolutionary. It just took a lot of what Mario 64 and Ocarina already did and applied it to the gameplay template of GTA1, and added story.

Mario 64 informed the future. GTA3 is an evolution of that future Mario 64 (and Ocarina) formed.
 

Cess007

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,070
B.C., Mexico
I actually never liked Mario 64, even when I loved my 64 to death. I never liked 3D Mario until Galaxy.

Also, Wolfestein deserves a mention with the reimagining between Castle Wolfestein and Wolfestein 3D.

Edit: Now that this has been reopened, I update my post with pics.


hqdefault.jpg


Going from a top-down action-adventure game with enfasis on stealth and keys, to this:

WOLF-06.png
 
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SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,223
I feel like Metroid Prime deserves to be somewhere in this conversation

Ehhhhh... Metroid Prime's game design is at its core "Super Metroid 3D" even with all the evolution it has.

Mario 64 is practically unrecognizable from its predecessors. A proto-Open World, Collect-a-thon structure, a vastly expanded moveset for Mario to use beyond Run and Jump - A far cry from the Arcade Side-Scrolling stage-based platforming of prior entries.
 

PMS341

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Oct 29, 2017
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Yup, and it's still fun today. The camera isn't perfect, but the actual gameplay is just truly fun. Moving around each level always feels great.
 

violent

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Oct 27, 2017
1,678
I think the leap into the 3rd dimension deserves more credit than any actual re-imagining of the franchise. Mario 64 is a treasure, of that there is no doubt. But it's not to say that it didn't benefit greatly from also being the first.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,085
eh i dunno about "re-imagining" . just a very refined version of what was groundbreaking about SMB1 translated to 3D. like nobody was playing this in '96 saying 'this isn't your father's mario'
I mean, it's not, though. SMB1 translated into 3D is Crash Bandicoot. Or even something like a pared down Super Mario 3D land. It only seems like a natural progression because it was how Nintendo chose to progress.

They went from linear course-based gameplay to a series of 3D sandboxes.
 

SweetNicole

The Old Guard
Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,542
Please don't make troll/parody threads.

Official Staff Communication
We're reopening this thread for discussion with an appropriate title change.
 
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OP
OP
InteractiveSoftwareUser

InteractiveSoftwareUser

User requested ban
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Oct 25, 2017
472
eh i dunno about "re-imagining" . just a very refined version of what was groundbreaking about SMB1 translated to 3D. like nobody was playing this in '96 saying 'this isn't your father's mario'

Which part of SMB1 did Nintendo just refine to create SM64?

I'd wager that plenty of Mario-fan fathers uttered that very phrase to their children while playing SM64 in 1996.
 

Slamtastic

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Oct 26, 2017
2,485
I am curious as to what motivated Nintendo to make a Collectathon when the genre was unbuilt. I feel like the Crash Bandicoot style would be the natural step for a 2D platformer.
Yeah they easily could have made 3D World/Land as the first big 3D Mario instead.

They designed around the 3D space being novel, and used it more than the hallway/perspective fixed style, and I'm eternally grateful for it.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,589
Kid Icarus Uprising is the first game to spring to mind, from a weird vertical side scroller to a frenetic shmup/TPS hybrid.
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 27, 2017
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god knows MGSV would be front-runner if Kojima & friends had been able to finish the game
 

Falconbox

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Oct 27, 2017
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While a huge step for that series, it's nowhere near as important, bold, or revolutionary. It just took a lot of what Mario 64 and Ocarina already did and applied it to the gameplay template of GTA1, and added story.

Mario 64 informed the future. GTA3 is an evolution of that future Mario 64 (and Ocarina) formed.

The question wasn't about whether or not it copied a game though.

OP asked about games that had a big reimagining of the franchise. I'd say GTA3 fits that mold quite well, compared to GTA1 and 2.

Another good one would be Fallout 3.