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What is the closest a western dev has gotten to MGS in terms of storytelling and cinematics?

Maxey

Maxey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,187
Portugal
While we still don't truly know what kind of game Death Stranding will be, I think the general expectation is that it will be a spiritual sequel to Metal Gear Solid in terms of the scope of the storytelling, character performances and cinematic experience.

However, I'm trying to think of a western developed game that felt the closest to a MGS game in those regards and I just can't summon any examples.

Is Hideo Kojima really that unique a game designer or are there any actual examples?

And no, MGS Twin Snakes doesn't count.

Edit: This quote perfectly encapsulates what I mean with my question:

AbbaZabba said:
I can’t think of one but I know what you mean.

- Story permeated by intense, often insightful, sometimes convulted or just unclear / batshit crazy themes of politics and philosophy
- heavy reliance on text / minimalistic presentation of exposition (Codex calls - I think this is an important part of the style, although it may not be part of what you’re getting at. The depth of conversations you can access - conversations that are often actually worth listening to, if not some of the neatest / wackiest / most thoughtful parts of the games - through Codex calls is a unique feature of the story telling though)
- lovingly cinematic, with a distinct and confident style (like Tarantino or Rodriguez, depending on where you want to go with it)
- utilizing gameplay / 4th wall breaking in story sequences (Mantis fights, the Sorrow, torture scenes)

These are the things that immediately come to mind when I try to define the “storytelling and cinematics” of MGS. I hope there are some good answers.

Irrational cane to mind but they still feel too conventional in some way lol.

Edit: I actually love both Tarantino and Rodriguez btw, but I know fewer people like Rodriguez in general
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Primethius

Primethius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,186
What exactly is the criteria? Batshit crazy stories? Or great story telling and cutscene direction?

Cause Kojimas got one but not necessarily the other.
 
OP
OP
Maxey

Maxey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,187
Portugal
Primethius said:
What exactly is the criteria? Batshit crazy stories? Or great story telling and cutscene direction?

Cause Kojimas got one but not necessarily the other.
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Yeah, batshit crazy stories that go to all kinds of places. And while we could argue the quality of the writing till the heat death of the universe, I think Kojima has mastered his own spin at cutscene direction. I just love the way he directs that shit.
 
Dreamboum

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
19,327
Wolfenstein is better in terms of cinematic performance. It really goes wild and the cutscene direction is even better. At least it appealed to my sensibilities even more than what MGS5 did with its "live footage" camera.
 
Flaurehn

Flaurehn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,336
Mexico City
As much as I love MGS, Mass Effect is simply better at cinematic storytelling and voice acting IMO, even when not cinematics it manages to be a monster in cinematography, Palaven reaper's invasion is a good example of that
 
Vadara

Vadara

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,563
I don't think that any western dev has ever done anything matching the hilariously Japanese mixture of serious plot telling and silly 4th wall mockery that MGS specializes in. I don't even mean this as an insult, but, e.g, Naughty Dog would never have Nathan Drake or Joel directly talk like they're in a game--that's just not how they roll.
 
galv

galv

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,048
Dreamboum said:
Wolfenstein is better in terms of cinematic performance. It really goes wild and the cutscene direction is even better. At least it appealed to my sensibilities even more than what MGS5 did with its "live footage" camera.
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This is the real answer here. YMMV on how well they pulled it off, but to me, they did a fantastic job of it, especially in The New Colossus.
 
Wein Cruz

Wein Cruz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,674
Plenty of games have terrible stories like the MGS series but i don't think any of them are as obnoxiously stupid with cinematics like MGS4.
 
Dreamboum

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
19,327
galv said:
This is the real answer here. YMMV on how well they pulled it off, but to me, they did a fantastic job of it, especially in The New Colossus.
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Word, I'm going to put one of the most iconic scene in here, it's a big spoiler so don't watch it if you care about being spoiled

 

Cybersai

Banned
Jan 8, 2018
11,631
Metal Gear Solid is the pinnacle of videogame storytelling, nothing comes close. Kojima might as well be called the "Shakespeare" of videogames.
 
skeezx

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,626
i don't want to diminish how revolutionary MGS was for "cinematic gaming" but most AAA games with a narrative basis more or less matched what it did by 2018. of course they're lacking the kojima finesse but he's unmatched in the industry
 
scare_crow

scare_crow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,753
Maxey said:
Yeah, batshit crazy stories that go to all kinds of places. And while we could argue the quality of the writing till the heat death of the universe, I think Kojima has mastered his own spin at cutscene direction. I just love the way he directs that shit.
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Over-directed, over-dramatic, over-long, and over-stylized? He certainly beats the hell out of Western cinematic games in those regards, yeah.
 
Angel DvA

Angel DvA

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,232
"life footage camera".... Wolfenstein surpassing MGS.... Witcher 3 closed to it.... I need to go out this thread asap...

There not even close, none of them.
 
AbbaZabba

AbbaZabba

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
628
I can’t think of one but I know what you mean.

- Story permeated by intense, often insightful, sometimes convulted or just unclear / batshit crazy themes of politics and philosophy
- heavy reliance on text / minimalistic presentation of exposition (Codex calls - I think this is an important part of the style, although it may not be part of what you’re getting at. The depth of conversations you can access - conversations that are often actually worth listening to, if not some of the neatest / wackiest / most thoughtful parts of the games - through Codex calls is a unique feature of the story telling though)
- lovingly cinematic, with a distinct and confident style (like Tarantino or Rodriguez, depending on where you want to go with it)
- utilizing gameplay / 4th wall breaking in story sequences (Mantis fights, the Sorrow, torture scenes)

These are the things that immediately come to mind when I try to define the “storytelling and cinematics” of MGS. I hope there are some good answers.

Irrational cane to mind but they still feel too conventional in some way lol.

Edit: I actually love both Tarantino and Rodriguez btw, but I know fewer people like Rodriguez in general
 

Dodgerfan74

Member
Dec 27, 2017
2,262
Maxey said:
While we still don't truly know what kind of game Death Stranding will be, I think the general expectation is that it will be a spiritual sequel to Metal Gear Solid in terms of the scope of the storytelling, character performances and cinematic experience.

However, I'm trying to think of a western developed game that felt the closest to a MGS game in those regards and I just can't summon any examples.

Is Hideo Kojima really that unique a game designer or are there any actual examples?

And no, MGS Twin Snakes doesn't count.
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So basically who is the Western dev with the worst writing, yet highest budget?

Wolfenstein 2 might be actually be the closest. I wouldn't have had that come to mind before this thread.
 
OP
OP
Maxey

Maxey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,187
Portugal
AbbaZabba said:
I can’t think of one but I know what you mean.

- Story permeated by intense, often insightful, sometimes convulted or just unclear / batshit crazy themes of politics and philosophy
- heavy reliance on text / minimalistic presentation of exposition (Codex calls - I think this is an important part of the style, although it may not be part of what you’re getting at. The depth of conversations you can access - conversations that are often actually worth listening to, if not some of the neatest / wackiest / most thoughtful parts of the games - through Codex calls is a unique feature of the story telling though)
- lovingly cinematic, with a distinct and confident style (like Tarantino or Rodriguez, depending on where you want to go with it)
- utilizing gameplay / 4th wall breaking in story sequences (Mantis fights, the Sorrow, torture scenes)

These are the things that immediately come to mind when I try to define the “storytelling and cinematics” of MGS. I hope there are some good answers.

Irrational cane to mind but they still feel too conventional in some way lol.
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Thank you! That's exactly what I meant. I just couldn't find the right words to express it.
 
Vadara

Vadara

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,563
I feel like a lot of people here read OP's post as "show me games that you think are better than MGS cinematic-wise" when he really meant "show me games that you think are like MGS cinematics-wise"
 
Dreamboum

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
19,327
Angel DvA said:
"life footage camera".... Wolfenstein surpassing MGS.... Witcher 3 closed to it.... I need to go out this thread asap...

There not even close, none of them.
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Bro, what do you think MGS5's camera is doing ? It's literally live footage, it's made as if someone is following Snake with the camera.

And yeah Wolfenstein is dope as fuck, constantly surprising and incredible when it comes to the camera work. There's only that and The Evil Within 2 that truly excels when it comes to cutscene direction.
 
ThereAreFourNaan

ThereAreFourNaan

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,213
MGS isn't superior to other story based / cinematic games, it's just got its own unique style to it. I don't think anyone else has a similar style, Western, Japanese or otherwise. The Wolfenstein recommendation might be the closest but the similarities aren't vast - it's mainly just that they are both series that attempt to blend weirdness / campiness with extremely serious things. Metal Gear Solid 2 has vampires and child soldiers, Wolfenstein has nazi superscience and concentration camps. But actually playing Wolf: TNO and TNC, I never thought "oh, this feels like MGS".
 
OP
OP
Maxey

Maxey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,187
Portugal
AbbaZabba said:
Lol well glad we’re on the same page, and I’m right there with you, I’d love more of it.
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Yeah, man. If, for some reason, Death Stranding ends up feeling like a completely different kind of beast than MGS, then the market for MGS clones becomes wide open.

Of course the question becomes, who dares take on that job? It's not even a question of money or time, it's really just who's crazy and daring enough to try to do that.
 
OP
OP
Maxey

Maxey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,187
Portugal
Hexa said:
I feel Bioshock Infinite came close.
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I don't think it did anything particularly different from many other modern AAA narrative-based FPS games. Maybe it had more extensive cutscenes than average but at no point during my playthrough did I ever get reminded of MGS.

Nintendoga said:
David Cage games, sorta?
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Yeah, I can kinda see your point there.

That reminds me tho, I need to find the time and courage to play through Beyond Two Souls one of these days. I tapped out at that
lame birthday party sequence or whatever
, I was having no fun at all.
 
Net_Wrecker

Net_Wrecker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,487
There's nothing like MGS because nobody in their right mind would attempt Kojima's wacky blend of melodramatic, Hollywood, Japanese cinema, Hong Kong stylized, anime, exposition loaded, long winded madness. Not to mention the lengthy still frame style faux-documentary alt history stuff he was doing in MGS1-3, and the talking head codec scenes. It's a hodgepodge of influences and creative freedom almost no other creative has been allowed to indulge in.

Now in terms of great cutscenes and solid traditional storytelling in general, Naughty Dog and MachineGames are up there.


EDIT: Oh Clusterdreams is right, Mafia 3 has extremely well made cutscenes. The Yakuza series hits these highs occasionally with their fully mo-capped "real" cutscenes too.
 
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