What was the lifetime sales of the PS2? Not 158m [Update: Between 159.2m and 161.9m]

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,610
Yep, couldn't we work out something cool with this ?

525,3 million of PlayStation system were sold to consumers at July 22th 2018 including 81,2 million PlayStation 4. As said in the PR, this number includes PlayStation, PSone, PlayStation 2, PSP, PSP Go, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Vita, PlayStation Vita TV, PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 4 Pro.

What if we use that 525,3 million data with this summary from Celine ?
No because PS2, PS3 and PSP final LTDs aren't known.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,610
I won’t be surprised if the DS actually sold more that the PS2. Wasn’t it like 155 million for the PS2 and 154 million for the DS ? So close and surely you can still buy DSIs right.

Source : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
No vecause that's DS final LTD.
However DS outsold PS2 in major markets:

I did a quick check on the sell-through data (NPD, GFK, Famitsu) I have for the major markets and the difference between PS2 LTD and DS LTD amount to roughly 26.9 million units in favor for DS.

DS LTD - PS2 LTD (data may be incomplete especially for DS)

Germany: 1.6M
France: 5.0M
UK: 2.3M
US: 6.4M
JP: 11.6M

DS total sell-through in those 5 markets is around 115 million units (again with incomplete data).
 

ShinySunny

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Dec 15, 2017
1,730
User Warned - Thread Whining
My goodness...just let it go.
It is nearly 2 decades ago, some of us can't even remember our kids birthday or SSN, but my goodness, some of yall still remember and would do research on sale number about an object sale number like it is the holy commandment once per month/year/per sale topic/thread at any given time when these type of discussion pops up.
Do you guys just bookmarked websites throughout the 2x decades to be ready to provide ammo or something?
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
No vecause that's DS final LTD.
However DS outsold PS2 in major markets:

I did a quick check on the sell-through data (NPD, GFK, Famitsu) I have for the major markets and the difference between PS2 LTD and DS LTD amount to roughly 26.9 million units in favor for DS.

DS LTD - PS2 LTD (data may be incomplete especially for DS)

Germany: 1.6M
France: 5.0M
UK: 2.3M
US: 6.4M
JP: 11.6M

DS total sell-through in those 5 markets is around 115 million units (again with incomplete data).
PS2 kept selling for years and years in less developed markets (DS was never big in those), because PS3 and its games were way too expensive, and super cheap pirated copies of PS2 games was readily available everywhere or it was easy to download them yourself (in a lot of those markets piracy is huge). that really helped get PS2 to the number it is currently.

I’m more interested how the PS4 has a very good chance of overtaking the PS1 and Wii to be the second best selling console ever.
it doesn't need any chance, it's a certainty. it only needs 20 more millions to pass those, worst case scenario it passes them in 2020.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,133
My goodness...just let it go.
It is nearly 2 decades ago, some of us can't even remember our kids birthday or SSN, but my goodness, some of yall still remember and would do research on sale number about an object sale number like it is the holy commandment once per month/year/per sale topic/thread at any given time when these type of discussion pops up.
Do you guys just bookmarked websites throughout the 2x decades to be ready to provide ammo or something?
Why are you doing console war drive-by ? This thread is about trying to pinpoint hardware numbers of a very popular console.
 

Heartskips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,132
My goodness...just let it go.
It is nearly 2 decades ago, some of us can't even remember our kids birthday or SSN, but my goodness, some of yall still remember and would do research on sale number about an object sale number like it is the holy commandment once per year/per sale topic/thread.
You're not being forced to discuss this tho. The gaming media has a terrible problem with reporting numbers (lots of famous sites reported the Sonic 800M units sold bollocks without even double checking the stupidity they were publishing), so it's worth bringing stuff like this to attention.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
My goodness...just let it go.
It is nearly 2 decades ago, some of us can't even remember our kids birthday or SSN, but my goodness, some of yall still remember and would do research on sale number about an object sale number like it is the holy commandment once per month/year/per sale topic/thread at any given time when these type of discussion pops up.
Do you guys just bookmarked websites throughout the 2x decades to be ready to provide ammo or something?
why come in a thread when you're not interested in sales numbers just to complain? just read the thread title and move on maybe?
it's a good subject imo, because while some people are saying this isn't important and who cares, wrong numbers get thrown around often (not talking just about PS2 here) and that spreads misinformation.
 

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
2,982
It's fairly simple.

PS2 Production Shipments were 117.9 million as of March 2007.
At this point Sony switched from reporting production shipments to hardware sell in.
Hardware sell in at this point was 115.6 million. So you can see there is a slight difference between Production Shipments vs Hardware sell in due to difference in reporting methods.

PS2 sold a further 39.5 million units through to March 2012 which takes the sell in total to 155.1 million.

In the fiscal year ending March 2013 a total of 16.5 million PS3&PS2 units were shipped. PS2 was still being shipped during this period so the info we're missing is how many units were PS2 and how many were PS3. Using PS3's 80m sell in announcements as a guide you can work backwards and ultimately work out that PS2 must have been close to 4m.

So whilst we don't know the 'official' number. We do know it was 155.1m as of March 2012 and there was another few million shipped shipped during the 9 months after that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,173
No because PS2, PS3 and PSP final LTDs aren't known.
Of course, but using that 525,3 million figure there is a fun guessing game to do. Using the numbers below for reference it looks there are still around 15 million of units missing to reach the good amount.

What system could possibly be the most underestimated here ? My guess is PS2 is closer to 160M and PS3 closer to 85M. Also wasn't the PSP supposed to have sold at least 80M or it was just a popular guess ?

PlayStation : 102.49 million
PlayStation 2 : 155.1 million
PlayStation Portable : 76.3 million
PlayStation 3 : 80.4 million
PlayStation Vita : 15 million [estimation]
PlayStation 4 : 81.2 million
 

potatohead

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
It's fairly simple.

PS2 Production Shipments were 117.9 million as of March 2007.
At this point Sony switched from reporting production shipments to hardware sell in.
Hardware sell in at this point was 115.6 million. So you can see there is a slight difference between Production Shipments vs Hardware sell in due to difference in reporting methods.

PS2 sold a further 39.5 million units through to March 2012 which takes the sell in total to 155.1 million.

In the fiscal year ending March 2013 a total of 16.5 million PS3&PS2 units were shipped. PS2 was still being shipped during this period so the info we're missing is how many units were PS2 and how many were PS3. Using PS3's 80m sell in announcements as a guide you can work backwards and ultimately work out that PS2 must have been close to 4m.

So whilst we don't know the 'official' number. We do know it was 155.1m as of March 2012 and there was another few million shipped shipped during the 9 months after that.
That's helpful

Not sure why people were getting upset about it

It'd be nice to know exactly but it doesn't exactly harm anything or affect anything especially 5 years since last production
 

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
2,982
For reference, the reason why 158 million is quoted a lot is because people just added production shipment number of 103.7 million to the 54.2 million units sold in after that date.
You get 157.9 million which is incorrect because you can't combine two different numbers with different reporting methods.

But what's funny is the total is probably around that number anyway when you work out the total sell in numbers.
 

MrCarter

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,152
It's fairly simple.

PS2 Production Shipments were 117.9 million as of March 2007.
At this point Sony switched from reporting production shipments to hardware sell in.
Hardware sell in at this point was 115.6 million. So you can see there is a slight difference between Production Shipments vs Hardware sell in due to difference in reporting methods.

PS2 sold a further 39.5 million units through to March 2012 which takes the sell in total to 155.1 million.

In the fiscal year ending March 2013 a total of 16.5 million PS3&PS2 units were shipped. PS2 was still being shipped during this period so the info we're missing is how many units were PS2 and how many were PS3. Using PS3's 80m sell in announcements as a guide you can work backwards and ultimately work out that PS2 must have been close to 4m.

So whilst we don't know the 'official' number. We do know it was 155.1m as of March 2012 and there was another few million shipped shipped during the 9 months after that.
That makes sense. Thanks.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
For reference, the reason why 158 million is quoted a lot is because people just added production shipment number of 103.7 million to the 54.2 million units sold in after that date.
You get 157.9 million which is incorrect because you can't combine two different numbers with different reporting methods.

But what's funny is the total is probably around that number anyway when you work out the total sell in numbers.
It's fairly simple.

PS2 Production Shipments were 117.9 million as of March 2007.
At this point Sony switched from reporting production shipments to hardware sell in.
Hardware sell in at this point was 115.6 million. So you can see there is a slight difference between Production Shipments vs Hardware sell in due to difference in reporting methods.

PS2 sold a further 39.5 million units through to March 2012 which takes the sell in total to 155.1 million.

In the fiscal year ending March 2013 a total of 16.5 million PS3&PS2 units were shipped. PS2 was still being shipped during this period so the info we're missing is how many units were PS2 and how many were PS3. Using PS3's 80m sell in announcements as a guide you can work backwards and ultimately work out that PS2 must have been close to 4m.

So whilst we don't know the 'official' number. We do know it was 155.1m as of March 2012 and there was another few million shipped shipped during the 9 months after that.
PS2 being a few millions higher than 155 would also explain how, using the 525 million number, vita's number can be approximated to 20 which is likely a few millions higher than reality.
 

Grigorig

Member
Oct 30, 2017
691
I mean they should know how many systems they shipped off to retailers worldwide, yeah?
Yeah if we're counting that as sold through, then absolutely that number should be known. Only reason I can think they wouldn't make it public is because nobody bothered to collate the data, I mean it's not a trivial amount of effort and what's in it for them? By the time the number was leveling out we must have been well into the PS3 generation and I doubt shareholders gave a shit by that point.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,173
Just for fun here is one of the many possible scenario to reach 525,3 million. Those are total personal guess-fiction :

PlayStation : 102.5 million
PlayStation 2 : 159 million
PlayStation Portable : 80.4 million
PlayStation 3 : 86.2 million
PlayStation Vita : 16 million
PlayStation 4 : 81.2 million

I don't think we can give more than 16M to the PS Vita. Hell we are not even sure it's really above the Wii U. The PSP is definitly above 80M. PS3 is not easy to guess, it reached the 80M milestone on november 2013 and we know how it plunged quickly as soon as the PS4 were on the market, the very same month, not to mention its price remained quite high.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
It is. Nintendo themselves put Wii U sales at 13.5m.
true. by even the safest estimations it's above that number. but something to take into account is that wii u was on the market for 50 months, while vita has been available for 82 months and counting (new units are still being shipped in japan).
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,133
Just for fun here is one of the many possible scenario to reach 525,3 million. Those are total personal guess-fiction :

PlayStation : 102.5 million
PlayStation 2 : 159 million
PlayStation Portable : 80.4 million
PlayStation 3 : 86.2 million
PlayStation Vita : 16 million
PlayStation 4 : 81.2 million

I don't think we can give more than 16M to the PS Vita. Hell we are not even sure it's really above the Wii U. The PSP is definitly above 80M. PS3 is not easy to guess, it reached the 80M milestone on november 2013 and we know how it plunged quickly as soon as the PS4 were on the market, the very same month, not to mention its price remained quite high.
Crank down the Vita of like 5 million and I think you have a pretty realistic view at the situation.
 

Deleted member 35598

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Dec 7, 2017
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it's the number after production had stopped for a few years (2017), so it's the final definitive number. nintendo probably could have gotten to 160 or even more, but they killed the system pretty quick after 3DS came out. in comparison PS2 was in production for YEARS after PS3 was released.
I wonder if ANY console wll come close to those 2 giants. I don’t see the PS4 reaching 120 million. Maybe the Switch will reach 100 million ( too early to say ).
 

Taker34

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Oct 25, 2017
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I wonder if ANY console wll come close to those 2 giants. I don’t see the PS4 reaching 120 million. Maybe the Switch will reach 100 million ( too early to say ).
But the PS4 will reach ~100 million around next summer, so before fall 2020 it might reach 120 Mil if sales are roughly constant. From there on it can sell large numbers depending on its price and support. Maybe not 150 million but it could get very close and it’ll definitely become the second best selling Sony console.
 

Memento

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Oct 26, 2017
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I hope this comment isnt considered thread whining but... how will any of us know the answer of that? Literally only Sony could know the answer.
 

Kresnik

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,202
Crank down the Vita of like 5 million and I think you have a pretty realistic view at the situation.
11m for Vita? No, lol, I'm willing to put money on the fact it's significantly more than that.

A long, long while ago I put together all the known/leaked numbers we had for Vita (link here)

Which puts it at 9.9m, since then you can add 190k (missing JP 2017 sales) + 160k (missing JP 2018 sales) which puts it at about 10.3m.

But as you can see there are large gaps in the data and some markets that don't have any data at all. Unless you're saying 700k covers everything that's missing in that table, then it's going to be notably higher than 11m (although obviously I can't give you an exact figure).
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,200
Italy
Actual shipments of the PS2 are 158.6 million minimum, and 161 million maximum.

I made that calculation over 2 years ago, so right now i don't remember the excat numbers i used to, let's see if i remember correctly...
For a year Sony started to give only Playstation family shipments, which mean for a Fiscal year we only had PS2+PS3 shipments. That's why we also don't really know the sales of the PS3, BUT we know PS3 surpassed the 80 million milestone back in November 2013. That was enought to have a range for PS2 numbers...

Anyway, i just round PS2 numbers to 160 million. If i have more time later, i'll try to expain better this range.
 

MrCarter

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,152
I hope this comment isnt considered thread whining but... how will any of us know the answer of that? Literally only Sony could know the answer.
Exactly. However it’s more likely PS2 sales are or have exceeded 158 million after reading some of the well-written posts in this thread.
 

Bundy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,968
Actual shipments of the PS2 are 158.6 million minimum, and 161 million maximum.

I made that calculation over 2 years ago, so right now i don't remember the excat numbers i used to, let's see if i remember correctly...
For a year Sony started to give only Playstation family shipments, which mean for a Fiscal year we only had PS2+PS3 shipments. That's why we also don't really know the sales of the PS3, BUT we know PS3 surpassed the 80 million milestone back in November 2013. That was enought to have a range for PS2 numbers...

Anyway, i just round PS2 numbers to 160 million. If i have more time later, i'll try to expain better this range.
Funny you are mentioning this. I actually did the same 1 year ago and guessed that the PS2 should be over 160 million by now :)
 
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ggx2ac

ggx2ac

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Oct 25, 2017
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Actual shipments of the PS2 are 158.6 million minimum, and 161 million maximum.

I made that calculation over 2 years ago, so right now i don't remember the excat numbers i used to, let's see if i remember correctly...
For a year Sony started to give only Playstation family shipments, which mean for a Fiscal year we only had PS2+PS3 shipments. That's why we also don't really know the sales of the PS3, BUT we know PS3 surpassed the 80 million milestone back in November 2013. That was enought to have a range for PS2 numbers...

Anyway, i just round PS2 numbers to 160 million. If i have more time later, i'll try to expain better this range.
That's a better estimate than what the Wikipedia entry had with how it determined 158.0 million (157.68 million).
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,983
It's fairly simple.

PS2 Production Shipments were 117.9 million as of March 2007.
At this point Sony switched from reporting production shipments to hardware sell in.
Hardware sell in at this point was 115.6 million. So you can see there is a slight difference between Production Shipments vs Hardware sell in due to difference in reporting methods.

PS2 sold a further 39.5 million units through to March 2012 which takes the sell in total to 155.1 million.

In the fiscal year ending March 2013 a total of 16.5 million PS3&PS2 units were shipped. PS2 was still being shipped during this period so the info we're missing is how many units were PS2 and how many were PS3. Using PS3's 80m sell in announcements as a guide you can work backwards and ultimately work out that PS2 must have been close to 4m.

So whilst we don't know the 'official' number. We do know it was 155.1m as of March 2012 and there was another few million shipped shipped during the 9 months after that.
Actual shipments of the PS2 are 158.6 million minimum, and 161 million maximum.

I made that calculation over 2 years ago, so right now i don't remember the excat numbers i used to, let's see if i remember correctly...
For a year Sony started to give only Playstation family shipments, which mean for a Fiscal year we only had PS2+PS3 shipments. That's why we also don't really know the sales of the PS3, BUT we know PS3 surpassed the 80 million milestone back in November 2013. That was enought to have a range for PS2 numbers...

Anyway, i just round PS2 numbers to 160 million. If i have more time later, i'll try to expain better this range.

That's a better estimate than what the Wikipedia entry had with how it determined 158.0 million (157.68 million).
 
Last edited:
Nov 4, 2017
1,800
I wonder if ANY console wll come close to those 2 giants. I don’t see the PS4 reaching 120 million. Maybe the Switch will reach 100 million ( too early to say ).
I think PS4 will top 120 million handily. It should hit 100m by mid next year, so it just needs to shift 20 million in the time before PS5 launches and in the "budget for console option" transition period Sony consoles typically experience. I think they'll do it, and reasonably exceed it if PS5 has BC and they can get the PS4 price low enough.
 
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ggx2ac

ggx2ac

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Oct 25, 2017
2,304
Actual shipments of the PS2 are 158.6 million minimum, and 161 million maximum.

I made that calculation over 2 years ago, so right now i don't remember the excat numbers i used to, let's see if i remember correctly...
For a year Sony started to give only Playstation family shipments, which mean for a Fiscal year we only had PS2+PS3 shipments. That's why we also don't really know the sales of the PS3, BUT we know PS3 surpassed the 80 million milestone back in November 2013. That was enought to have a range for PS2 numbers...

Anyway, i just round PS2 numbers to 160 million. If i have more time later, i'll try to expain better this range.


FY2012 is here

PS3 70 million sell-in on November 4th 2012

PS3 80 million sell-in on November 2nd 2013

The maximum range I get is 6.8 million which means the highest units for PS2 is 161.9 million
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,200
Italy


FY2012 is here

PS3 70 million sell-in on November 4th 2012

PS3 80 million sell-in on November 2nd 2013

The maximum range I get is 6.8 million which means the highest units for PS2 is 161.9 million
Yes yuo are right, 161,9 million is indeed the maximum! Now that i think more about it, that was also the number i got back in the days, but like i said it's been 2 years ago (more actually, like 2 years and half), i just didn't remember correctly.

For the 158.6 million as minimum... i think i got those numbers because 3.3 million is the numbers shipped for PS3 after it reach 80 million? But 151.1m + 3.3m is 158.4m, not 158.6m...

Man i wish i saved in some excel file the calculation i made. :-/

But anyway, we can be sure that the range is somehow between 158,4 to 161,9 million, so we have at least a good range.
 

ZhugeEX

Senior Analyst at Niko Partners
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
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The minimum would be 4.1m in FY12 and the maximum would be 6.8m.

PS2 is likely up YoY in FY12 as it is not mentioned as being down, like it is in prior reports. So with that in mind, and to align with PS3 hitting 80m in November we can say PS2 LTD is a minimum of 159.2m and a maximum of 161.9m. Most likely being closer to the former number.
 
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ggx2ac

ggx2ac

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Oct 25, 2017
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The minimum would be 4.1m in FY12 and the maximum would be 6.8m.

PS2 is likely up YoY in FY12 as it is not mentioned as being down, like it is in prior reports. So with that in mind, and to align with PS3 hitting 80m in November we can say PS2 LTD is a minimum of 159.2m and a maximum of 161.9m. Most likely being closer to the former number.
And this is the earnings results he is referring to:
 
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ggx2ac

ggx2ac

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Oct 25, 2017
2,304
I've been informed that the numbers used in Wikipedia for that last row of numbers actually came from VGChartz and there was no citation mentioning vgchartz.






Quote from OP:
The numbers became rounded from March 2008 onwards, and the final tally doesn't even add up to 158 million exactly. (The last row adds up to 157.68 million)
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,199
That's extraordinary. This was a perfect storm of good marketing and development which led to the sustained success and adoption of the PS2 over time. I held off from owning one for almost 5 years but eventually gave in because it had all those games.
 

Joule

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,005
I'd be more impressed if anyone could find out PS3s LTD sales. That's the biggest mystery