Right wing extremism will steamroll the fuck out of us regardless of how good we look.
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What's the deal with antifa?
- Thread starter Deleted member 46489
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Oh. That makes sense. As for Chomsky, I don't have a problem disagreeing with him. I just think his opinions are relevant to public discourse.
A lot of the American left seem to prefer order to justice, so when a group that actively fights for justice over order, you'll have people arguing against them and their methods.
For a very recent example. If the HK protests were to happen in the US, they would very likely be condemned by all sides and any attacks of violence used in response by the protesters would be held up as examples by 'moderates' to why the protests are wrong and why they shouldn't be supported.
For a very recent example. If the HK protests were to happen in the US, they would very likely be condemned by all sides and any attacks of violence used in response by the protesters would be held up as examples by 'moderates' to why the protests are wrong and why they shouldn't be supported.
Many liberals and "progressives" are more interested in upholding the appearance of civility and peace rather than justice. That's why they fall for the rightwing propaganda that antifa is actually a threat to human lives.
Yup. This video is somewhat related and worth a watch:
We are Antifa. Anyone who wants to stand up again fascism, white supremacy and hatred is antifascist. We're made up of everyone from all walks of lives. Historically this has meant Jewish and Black communities, communists, anarchists LGBTQ- anyone and everyone at risk of persucution or against hatred. That sometimes means we're aligned differently on how to deal with an issue. Some believe violence is the only way others believe peace. But we're all against fascism.
The right-wing media an politicians are afraid of unity - seeing such a diverse group coming together united under a single purpose is a fascists worst fear. So they'll demonize us, outlaw us. Do anything and everything to break apart acts of unity in the left. Divide and conquer - a tactic as old as mankind itself.
The right-wing media an politicians are afraid of unity - seeing such a diverse group coming together united under a single purpose is a fascists worst fear. So they'll demonize us, outlaw us. Do anything and everything to break apart acts of unity in the left. Divide and conquer - a tactic as old as mankind itself.
Antifaschistische Aktion are great.
Anybody who is willing to stand under the general banner of anti-fascism, and take actions to oppose fascism, are also pretty cool.
Fuck fascists, and all those who enable them.
Anybody who is willing to stand under the general banner of anti-fascism, and take actions to oppose fascism, are also pretty cool.
Fuck fascists, and all those who enable them.
Are you quoting something? Because I'm anti fascism, but I sure as hell am not Antifa. And if you wrote this, I doubt that you're Antifa.
They're groups, and like all groups, there are people who do wrong things and go too far. At least in my opinion. So I disagree that just "anyone" taking actions against fascism under the banner of anti-fascism is pretty cool.
But that's a nitpick, in general, I believe the existence of the Antifaschistische Aktion is very important.
What the hell? Who cares about a naming convention? Stop holding Anti fascists to a higher standard than we hold MAGA chuds. christ
Something that also hasn't mentioned is when they start rounding up ordinary people who have been vocally anti-fascism on social media, the "Antifa" label is what they'll use.
No, it's still a ridiculous abbreviation.
If it was a proper abbreviation it would be AFA.
Antifa and particularly the An-Tee-Fah pronunciation that Fox loves to use makes it sound like a hipster salad. Which is almost certainly their intention.
I'm off to eat some MagWAH!
People on era find a way to be angry about just about anything. Easily angered. I like to call them Easilang.
I meant because it shows a massive lack of understanding what antifa is, hah. I don't think people in these groups are anything but vocal about it, but the assumption that "we all are antifa" based on being anti fascism seems a bit naive for someone "in it".
Hope that made sense.
Well, when you start a movement with a name that's still being used 87 years later, you can do it better, okay? Seriously, nitpicking a close to 90 year old German abbreviation is just dumb.
Especially complaining about the pronunciation of a word that didn't originate in your language.
Besides being a bit of a paranoid horror fantasy, I'm not sure what you're getting at. If that were to happen, it'd be really really bad. But... not something that'd really change the situation for better or worse, if we're at that point.
you should stop giving a rat ass about what people on the right have to say about anti fascists.
So you don't actually know what it stands for?
Also as someone who grew up in a neighborhood with strong antifa background in germany it's a bit weird americans are so clueless about antifa.
People would rather bend to fascism than actively oppose fascism.
This is how dictatorships are often born.
Given history, the backlash against anti-fascists is not at all surprising, but it is depressing.
This is how dictatorships are often born.
Given history, the backlash against anti-fascists is not at all surprising, but it is depressing.
That's the german pronounciation that's been in use for close to a century...
Even if it doesn't sound cool to you, it's still not "ridiculous". It makes perfect sense.
Also Fox does apparently pronounce it how it is supposed to be pronounced.
Being anti fascism doesn't mean your antifa. Seriously people should read up on what they're claiming to be.
Antifa is way more criticized (rightfully) and not nearly as beloved in Europe as here on Era. I don't know much about American Antfia though, they may be different. But statements like "anybody who is an antifascist must be good" is laughable from an European (German) perspective on Antifa in my home country. They have been needlessly violent against police (remember that our cops are a thousand times better/tamer than your US cops) and destructive against property of completely innocent people. They randomly burn cars parking on the street for sport if they feel anonymous hidden in a group and mask it with fake anti-capitalism arguments.
So if you think positively about your American Antifa groups, fine. But at least keep in mind that THE Antifa does not exist. There are many groups worldwide with different views and behaviour and not all of them are friendly activists. There is no organization overseeing what Antifa as a whole stands for.
So if you think positively about your American Antifa groups, fine. But at least keep in mind that THE Antifa does not exist. There are many groups worldwide with different views and behaviour and not all of them are friendly activists. There is no organization overseeing what Antifa as a whole stands for.
Antifa isn't a cohesive group, it's a loose coalition of various groups and individuals whose only common characteristic is being anti-fascist. Anyone that engages in anti-fascist activity is by definition antifa.
Protesting a fascist rally with a sign that tells them to go eat shit -> Antifa
Disrupting fascist conferences by informing their venues that they will be hosting fascist so the events get cancelled -> Antifa
Making YouTube videos calling out their bullshit -> Antifa
Engaging in anti-fascist activities but claiming your're not antifa is kind of like saying "I walk on two legs but I'm not a biped." Complete nonsense.
Protesting a fascist rally with a sign that tells them to go eat shit -> Antifa
Disrupting fascist conferences by informing their venues that they will be hosting fascist so the events get cancelled -> Antifa
Making YouTube videos calling out their bullshit -> Antifa
Engaging in anti-fascist activities but claiming your're not antifa is kind of like saying "I walk on two legs but I'm not a biped." Complete nonsense.
Most of the burned cars aren't motivated politically. Most eco liberal news outlets like springer simply blame the Antifa but it isn't simply true.
German cops aren't also the good buddies like you suggest even if they are much better than the US police. The current study of the Uni Bochum suspects 12.000 cases of illegal police violence per year and the recent twitter grinds in Germany also shows how brutal and arbitrary they can be.
And this is just the known case, I don't want to know how many other cases are out there.
Plenty of nazis and white supremacists work for police.
Pretty much.
I don't feel safe in my city knowing the police force is full with nazis (proven! then they got kicked, but just the known ones)
So that there's groups within the Antifa network, or that the term has a symbol and a history, that just... doesn't matter?
"Antifa" is not like "Feminism". "Antifa" stands for "Antifaschistische Aktion". It's not a simple catch-all term.
Plus, if I may play Devil 's advocate:
This.
EDIT: And while I've posted the link before, maybe it helps if you read up on the history behind the term/groups/network:
Anyone CAN be Antifa, but being vocal against fascism or even being part of demonstrations doesn't make you Antifa.
In my eyes I see this whole process counter productive. When you have reports of violence occuring among left and right wing groups, it just makes regular people scared. And they become more accepting of police state and authoritarianism.
Yep, the European branch of antifa have very little symphaty. They pop up every time G8 conventions are held in europe and they really give shit impression of their beliefs.
edit. Sorry, I might be mixing antifa and Black bloc.
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The only people criticizing antifa are mainstream media and centrists. As history proved, both will always pick the fascist side if push comes to shove. So who cares.
Also, even german police are still just lapdogs for capitalism and full of racist people, so they're not your friend.
It's not like "remember that our cops are a thousand times better/tamer than your US cops" is some controversial statement though, that's kinda true regardless of the whole ACAB situation
I used to run with Antifa in the 90s. My city of Oslo had a pretty major nazi problem at that time. The strategy was to confront them physically whenever they tried to arrange marches, concerts or meeting points. The nazis would catch a beatdown quite often, but we also cooperated with mainstream and peaceful antiracist and leftist organizations. We'd arrange large rallies, demonstrations and so on. I still believe that the combination of direct (sometimes violent) action and peaceful politics eventually cleaned up the city. Obviously the nazis were the proper violent ones - we'd get shot at and bombed, while it was never our intention to hurt anybody seriously. Luckily most of the leading nazi figures ended up in jail eventually.
Europe has its own problems with fascism, they really shouldn't throw that stone in their glass house.
If you're curious, I recommend this video highly:
Basically the negative perception is mostly propaganda from the right or just plain ignorance. Like, there have been and will be misguided people using the antifa brand to justify their actions, that doesn't change the majority of what antifa has done not the stated goals which are, unless you are 100% pacifist, entirely agreeable.
I don't blame you though. I got the sense antifa was pretty sketchy until I looked into it. Unfortunately I anticipate the confusion will continue just as it did with Black Lives Matter. What compounds the issue is the underlying violence as an option paves the way for people to exaggerate or generalize the "movement" or for somebody to just be assholes under the guise of activism.
Basically the negative perception is mostly propaganda from the right or just plain ignorance. Like, there have been and will be misguided people using the antifa brand to justify their actions, that doesn't change the majority of what antifa has done not the stated goals which are, unless you are 100% pacifist, entirely agreeable.
I don't blame you though. I got the sense antifa was pretty sketchy until I looked into it. Unfortunately I anticipate the confusion will continue just as it did with Black Lives Matter. What compounds the issue is the underlying violence as an option paves the way for people to exaggerate or generalize the "movement" or for somebody to just be assholes under the guise of activism.
Of course we got problems with fascism. I'm in freaking Austria. You gotta be blind to not see the FPĂ–VP as a massive freaking red flag.
Still doesn't make the statement untrue, so still not sure why you bolded it. Unrelated to the thread though, I guess.
They already accept those things with open arms.
I love how the burden is on antifa to make sure state-sponsored propaganda against them doesn't make more neolibs receptive to fascism when they're already plenty enough receptive to fascism to allow it to have a prominent foothold.
Its also funny how quickly its been forgotten that german police officers work again and again for and with fascists. Like last year, this year, next year. The money I would pay to see a police works with antifa scandal.
when someone says "yes, but the police in my country doesn't have those problem", that's a big red flag that says "I don't know what I am talking about".
This shit may apply to the US system, not worldwide. A generalizing statement about cops worldwide is a fucking insult to real human beings who are doing nothing wrong. This doesn't mean there are no bad cops in Germay for example, but the problem here is not necessarily as systemic as in other countries. "Bad apples" is fitting for German cops.
Also, our cops being a thousand times better than US cops still doesnt mean ours are great.
This generalizing shit should be bannable when talking about cops worldwide tbh. Fuck you.
