do you know that the say is "a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch"?
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What's the deal with antifa?
- Thread starter Deleted member 46489
- Start date
Cops protect the interests of capitalism and the state, not the people.
can hardly call yourself liberal if you don't think punching a nazi is a Good Thing.
Would someone please think of the poor cops?!
Fuck off with this stupid shit.
Antifa is just a cute name. In Denmark at least, they are almost labeled as a terrorist group... Almost. They are the majority when it comes to violent riots against the police and what not. They take every opportunity to start a riot and make havoc in Copenhagen. They even come from Germany and Sweden to stir shit up.
Not quoting anything, just what I believe. You fear to be seen as 'Antifa' because you see what is shown in the news - violent activists dressed in black burning cars and breaking windows. No one with a desire for peace wants to be thought of as a dangerous thug, I understand. We fear being seen as violent and uncivilized because in our hearts we believe we're fighting for what's good and just and violence has no place in that.
Fascists would rather divert the conversation at them - and you'll follow, not wanting to be seen alongside communists or anarchists because of the tactics they use or the ideology they stand for, but it's a distraction against our message - a united message against fascism (it's just sometimes a little messy due to our diversity and a difference in a 'overall' goals)
I can't ignore that, yes, some in protests are unnecessarily violent and destructive - you get that everywhere; it's the same with climate change protests - some splinter off and begin sabotaging equipment and putting lives at risk in the name of the environment, but it's a minority.
I'm always reminded of that poem by Martin Niemöller:
And now I'm seeing news stories of wanting to outlaw 'Antifa' in the US - it scares me. Antifa isn't an organization like Greenpeace of PETA, to outlaw Antifa is to outlaw Anti-fascism. We can't be divided, don't let them control the conversation. Condemn the violence, by all means, but don't let it distract from the message.
Also I highly recommend (for everyone here) reading Antifa: The Anti Fascist Handbook by Mark Bray. It covers the history of Anti Fascism from its beginnings around the early 1900s and what Antifa stands for and why the act the way they do. The world is a little different today, I'm not sure on how best to approach things myself, but I'm scared.
Your mistake is assuming everyone who has a problem with police are American.
Don't bother. They are out of reach. They live in a bubble where they think that every policeman is corrupt, and is only there to kill his fellow man. They try to apply everything from the US, and make it a worldwide problem.
Bs. Cops protect the interest of the people, which was vote by the people. Don't like the current system? Then vote. If not, then you are maintaining the status quo.
Let me stop you right there. I'm not Antifa because it's a clearly defined group of people in Austria, and I'm not one of them. That armchair psychiatry is reaching way too hard.
I've been at protests on the same side as Antifa people, but I was clearly not part of their groups.
You really need to understand that people like me are not condemning the message.
I also think it's impossible and downright stupid to attempt to outlaw Antifa.
Could I ask where you're from?
lol, wut? This reeks of excessive exaggeration. You make it sound like we have tons of riots in copenhagen, but we barely have any.
Ok. See who you're going to call if someone from the people side punches you in the face or worse.
I get why people are critical of police who act violent, racist or whatever. I also get why people are especially critical of entire police organizations if they are trained and ordered the way they are in the US or other more corrupt states. I really do.
But if you sincerely think that every cop in the world is in the job or gets ordered to defend "the capital" and is therefore a "bastard", than you are a single-minded pathetic being for generalizing millions of people like that.
I'm not American. I've lived in six different European countries. And the police is shit everywhere. I've been harassed, robbed and beaten by the police. I've been taken into custody without charges and released in the middle of fucking nowhere without an explanation. And i got the skin color lottery. I can only imagine where i'd be if i weren't white. So yeah fuck the police.
And apart from individual cases of abuse, the whole police system exists solely to protect the inequality system. So double fuck them.
I never said we have a ton. But the riots we had in the last 1 1/2 year alone was fueled by antifa.
People who sign up for a job where they are tasked with patrolling the poor are complicit in the system.
12000 cases for illegal use of violence
right-wingers in the police like recently shown in Hessen again
many more cases which are registrated but accepted in silence
and we still have the police of Dessau who burned a black person alive in his cell and the administration who tried to coerced three policemen to slow down their reports on right winged attacks
Its so fucking stupid that "antifa" is an organisation and not a way of action, when facism is always said to be a way of action and not an organisation.
How is that possible? You have to be a serious numbnuts to think that way.
How is that possible? You have to be a serious numbnuts to think that way.
No I'm not. WTF is up with you for thinking that just because of my opinion? What kind of shitty reflex is this to guess something personal about me instead of arguing with what I actually said?
I'm actually a German with a migration background who has been treated unfairly by a judge (I was the victim) and had to handle racism before. Not that this matters at all. I have voted left all of my life, yet Era is the only place I engage on where I regularly take the side of the state just because so many of you will not slow down with your one-sided generalization. It's ridiculous that I'm quoted to death in such hostile way for the tame things I said, asking you to think outside of your boxes that "all = bad". While at the same time someone who severly insults millions of people, among them a lot of good hearted ones for sure, gets a free pass.
@ Everyone posting police statistics. I know all of that. We have right wing nuts in many offices, especially in the east. This doesn't contradict anything I said and it sure as hell is not enough to justify violence as sometimes seen by German Antifa. Fighting fire with fire..
Yeah, Danish antifascists are awesome and totally uncompromising. They're welcome over here anytime to sort shit out.
Btw remember that police dude from your country that said he would gladly pull out gold fillings from immigrants?
Bet he was better then all the US cops...
Calling Antifa violent, or treating Antifa as a monolithic entity or organisation means not understanding Antifa.
Signed: Someone who's been Antifa since the 80s.
Also, some history on the Antifacist movement will help for perspective:
Signed: Someone who's been Antifa since the 80s.
Also, some history on the Antifacist movement will help for perspective:
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Where are all those good hearted cops when their colleagues murder innocents and uphold the inequality system? How many of them testify against the rotten apples? On which side are they when people protest fascism on the streets? Or when fascist dictators take over?
Look around the world at how many defacto dictatorships exist. How many of them are supported by the police?
The police, as an institution, is the strong arm of the ruling class. It always has been. If you look at the history of police forces around the world, that's how most of them came to be. It's their purpose.
It's also an institution that tends to attract personalities that get off on power. The US is completely out of control on this issue but that underlying issue is not exclusive to the US.
I'm from the UK. I guess I don't see Antifa as a whole group but an umbrella made up of smaller organizations like 'Antifa Action' and the 'Anti-Nazi League' etc. which are much more defined IMO. I wouldn't see myself under those groups that are causing senseless violence either and I didn't mean to say you were condemning overall the message sorry.
I guess it's just a difference in our definition of what Antifa is (I don't know what groups they have in Austria, maybe they're simply called 'Antifa'?) - to me I don't believe it's something that's easily defined beyond 'Anti Fascist' (which, as you say, is why it's so stupid to try and outlaw it).
I agree, but as I would theoretically fit under that umbrella, I'm not part of any politically active group, so even though I may participate in political action sometimes, I'd feel weird using that term for myself.
A semantic thing, sure, but not unimportant to me.
Missed this little nugget. The 'voting is everything' fallacy. Hey maybe you can help me out here because i suck at math. I keep voting left but the right keeps winning. What am i doing wrong? I also seem to have missed the 'fuck capitalism, give me socialism' option on the ballot. Help me out fam.
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Pick one out of two provided options in order to change the system
Where are all those good hearted cops when their colleagues murder innocents and uphold the inequality system? How many of them testify against the rotten apples? On which side are they when people protest fascism on the streets? Or when fascist dictators take over?
Look around the world at how many defacto dictatorships exist. How many of them are supported by the police?
The police, as an institution, is the strong arm of the ruling class. It always has been. If you look at the history of police forces around the world, that's how most of them came to be. It's their purpose.
It's also an institution that tends to attract personalities that get off on power. The US is completely out of control on this issue but that underlying issue is not exclusive to the US.
Their existence alone is enough to prove that ACAB intended at literally all the cops worldwide is a stupid generalization for an easy argument. They shouldn't exist if you were correct about "all cops".
Because a lot of folks perceive the potential transgressions of the people who agree with them as "worse" than the opposition. It's a focus on what your methods look like instead of results.
I mean, a lot of folks here said that about the WTO protests in Seattle, J20, and even Ferguson; "Antifa" was only on the American media radar for one of those. The collective memory has largely forgotten the events of the WTO protests, but I'll be damned if there weren't way more posts on my facebook timeline mourning the gas station that burned in Ferguson instead of Michael Brown, which pushes my attitude far in the other direction. Ultimately, protests are not about making people comfortable in their existing state and sometimes destruction of property is a part of that. The people who are more shocked that windows get smashed instead of asking why people are so upset that they are smashing windows are probably not going to get it for a long time.
How would you call a cop that while doesn't misuse its power personally, stay silent when he has to speak about classic bad cops?
But at the same time I doubt you convince many people join the revolution and create the police free society either. At least in europe/us. Maybe when goverments there go full nazi mode, then you might have stew going on.
Antifa most definitely conducts violence at their rallies more often than not. Other than the rumors of the Dayton shooter they have not actually killed anyone though. My issue with Antifa is being completely clad in black with masks while conducting the violence. Milk shakes with concrete mix, bike locks, bricks, etc.
You don't amass large groups of people in masks to peacefully protest.
I don't actually care that they exist or want to protest. Good on them, go affect change. But to think they are out in the streets for anything but altercations is asinine. There are far too many videos to support that statement.
BLM proved you can amass large groups of people and basically get the same message across without violence/masks.
You don't amass large groups of people in masks to peacefully protest.
I don't actually care that they exist or want to protest. Good on them, go affect change. But to think they are out in the streets for anything but altercations is asinine. There are far too many videos to support that statement.
BLM proved you can amass large groups of people and basically get the same message across without violence/masks.
While their cause is a good one they are intimidating to witness. There is always a stressful tension surrounding them I feel. Masked people that stand face to face with those that they most despise. It's bound to cause chaos and you will do well not to go near it.
I'm sorry. But this bullshit. The Black Block ski masked thugs who hijack protests and strikes with violence aren't there 'because they are upset', they are there to incite senseless violence in a protest that is often not even their own. We had a big national strike and protest organised by the unions, which turned to violence because a couple of those maskes black block guys started to burn cars (one was even of a hard-working migrant, which the right of course used endlessly in their dismissing of the protest/strike). There was also footage of someone knocking a police man (who had his back to them) out with a stone.
That's not 'because they are upset'. That's because they are anarchists believing violence is a means to an end. The only effct it has is that the message of those protests and strikes gets drowned out, and that the right-wing has extra arguments to dismiss them.
I know not everyone under the Antifa banner is like this, and I respect some of their actions (like counterprotesting fascist marches), but I have zero respect for those that hijack protests with violence. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship. There are other ways to stand up for your cause. If you can only deliver your message with violence, you can better not deliver your message at all.
Milkashakes mixed with concrete have already proven to be fake.
Where's the proof that a Soros-funded Antifa sect didn't throw milkshakes laced with cobra venom at conservatives?
WHERE?
Cops do suck everywhere, but that's just a consequence of the kinds of states they serve; it's not hard to imagine a better society with far, far fewer cops who overwhelmingly do clerical shit and resolve minor disputes between citizens (e.g., which driver is at fault in a traffic accident). Or just stand around to remind citizens of the state (or imply its capacity for violence, if you're a cardholding anarchist). Like less than one-fifth of police work today is "crime fighting" in any sense people would recognize. The job is supposed to be dull, and it should hardly ever require force.
That said, while cops do kinda suck everywhere (and protect capital and landlords, reinforce white supremacist structures, etc.), I think it's important for American leftists to realize that their policing is uniquely violent and fucked among advanced democracies. ACAB, sure, but other countries go years at a time without a police-involved shooting. A lot of Europeans are not going to fully grasp the American attitude to cops because they have grown up with a sense of police as bumbling civil servants who don't even carry weapons.
That said, while cops do kinda suck everywhere (and protect capital and landlords, reinforce white supremacist structures, etc.), I think it's important for American leftists to realize that their policing is uniquely violent and fucked among advanced democracies. ACAB, sure, but other countries go years at a time without a police-involved shooting. A lot of Europeans are not going to fully grasp the American attitude to cops because they have grown up with a sense of police as bumbling civil servants who don't even carry weapons.
A fash? I could not even google it, but based on your language, I assume you are from the UK? If so, I don't think I have to say anything about your PM to make my point.
Nice sources. I thought I would see the daily wire in there too.
I don't know you or where you have lived, so I cannot and will not comment on that. I have always been met with care when I needed their help.
And the bolded, simply no. You may argue with that with the case of the Spanish Guardia Civil, but not everywhere.
Not one single jewelry was confiscated or taken. It was all a signaling effect, nothing else.
The US system is fucked, indeed, but you are part of the people, then make the people vote differently. The majority of the people wanted Trump, then they got it. It's funny how the rest of the world can figure out how to make democracy work, but the US cannot. Vote independently, or approach it differently.