Com'on man, you know what I mean by Open World Pokemon and it isn't what Red/Blue was on the Gameboy or what Zelda was on the NES.
3D, free roaming, fully realized world with traversal mechanics a la BotW.
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What's with the animosity towards Game Freak & Pokémon as of late? Is it justified?
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
Com'on man, you know what I mean by Open World Pokemon and it isn't what Red/Blue was on the Gameboy or what Zelda was on the NES.
3D, free roaming, fully realized world with traversal mechanics a la BotW.
My point is "open world" shouldn't mark a different direction for Pokemon, only reserved for a spinoff. It's what they probably envisioned R/B (or Zelda) to be if the hardware had permitted them. Maybe you don't need all the traversal mechanics of Zelda (like climbing anywhere), but yeah, we shouldn't be limited to just walking and jumping off ledges. With PokeRide, Gamefreak has guaranteed all players have access to the same basic overworld abilities, so they should design the world to actually utilize them (much like the Zelda devs did with the sheikah slate runes and shrines)
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You are really trying to downplay everything they did in B2W2. I'm not sure why people should be impressed by them adding a few new pokémon to an already low count. It doesn't help that all of them are end game.
My first post said explicitly that they can keep their 15 million seller main line games.
My suggestion was for them to branch out and make games beyond the scope of what they have done for the last 20 years, specifically targeting an older audience.
I don't think you understood my post at all. Their mainline games SHOULD be open world. That's what they were always meant to be. That's why they took place on a large, interconnected continent. For HW reasons they couldn't really achieve that, the same way Zelda games always had to use zones (such as the segmented overworld in most of them, the islands in WW, and the ground areas in SS), but were always meant to be that way. I don't want a separate branch to do that. I want the main games, and the series going forward, to do it
A content rich open world Pokemon should be the natural evolution of the series now that they moved to consoles. The hardware is certainly there.
Thankfully, someone called this out early on. Let's hope the rest of the thread doesn't revolve around people saying that the battle system can't be changed (even though most players complains have little to do with the battle system) or that little kids won't be able to play the game if you change anything about it.
Mario games actually have to be made with even younger kinds in mind, yet they satisfy everyone, and they do it while continuosly reinventing the series (while keeping the basic gameplay intact).
Pokemon conquest was pretty good. I enjoyed my time with it.
I think for me it's in the world design more than the graphics. Even though it's GREATLY improved from XY they still very much feel like 2D games rendered in 3D. Yeah they have slopes and natural changes in elevation, but the topography is pretty simple still. You seem to be a DQ fan, based on your avatar, so just compare DQ7 to DQ8. Oh, a good example of this is pokemon is towns. Compare a town in any 3D RPG, where they can be large and complex, to Pokemon where they're all flat for some reason. In fact, the most topographically complex town in any of the games was probably Sootopolis in R/S/E
Honestly, after how atrocious Gen VI was (I still firmly believe ORAS is the worst game of the franchise) Game Freak should in theory deserve all of this negativity. My only problem is, outside of the stupid linear and hand-holdy nature of the early games to Gen VII, (with no option to skip) Gen VII fixed all the problems that ORAS in particular made me hate it for. It wasn't easy as sin anymore, (in fact USUM is pretty tough which I love) and outside of the early game handholding the game lets you do whatever in the post-game which leads to a lot of fun things to do. All that really needs to be done for Gen 8 is ditch the tutorial and replace it with the FRLG help menu/make it optional for newcomers, add a bit more freedom to the mix and keep the game as packed with content as Gen VII, while adding more fun stuff to do.
So I don't think Game Freak needs to be replaced now that they redeemed themselves (at least for me) but if you asked me if the hatred of GF is justified in 2014, when my best friend quit the main series for freaking Digimon Masters because ORAS bored him to death, I'd be rallying for GF to be fired from the main series and replaced with Spike Chunsoft (who still makes outstanding Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Games and Super MD is currently my all time favorite video game) or the devs of Pokemon XD (forgot their name)
I will still say though that removing good features from older gens for no reason is a BS move that needs to stop. I will seriously rage if they remove the 3D roaming fun that Gen VII brought to the table in favor of freaking 8-directional movement in a cramped space again for Gen VIII.
So I don't think Game Freak needs to be replaced now that they redeemed themselves (at least for me) but if you asked me if the hatred of GF is justified in 2014, when my best friend quit the main series for freaking Digimon Masters because ORAS bored him to death, I'd be rallying for GF to be fired from the main series and replaced with Spike Chunsoft (who still makes outstanding Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Games and Super MD is currently my all time favorite video game) or the devs of Pokemon XD (forgot their name)
I will still say though that removing good features from older gens for no reason is a BS move that needs to stop. I will seriously rage if they remove the 3D roaming fun that Gen VII brought to the table in favor of freaking 8-directional movement in a cramped space again for Gen VIII.
I'm not talking about changes on the elements of the turn-based battle, but the core turn-based battle gameplay itself. The turn-based gameplay is never going away unless the series stops selling somehow.
Game Freak already adds new combat features every gen in order to make it deeper, like natures. Dynamism, interactivity, etc. are not outside of the realm of possible gameplay elements that they insert every 3-4 years, just don't expect anything too complex at a first glance. Pokèmon follows the very well-known principle of "easy to learn, hard to master" after all, which is why it has a strong competitive scene.
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I've been building up rage at The Great Pokemon Hypocrisy for a while now.
People like to shit on the "Dudebro AAA" market where yearly upgrades and not including the full game is common, and "toxic", yet no one cares when Nintendo/Game Freak/Pokemon company does it.
People like to shit on the "Dudebro AAA" market where yearly upgrades and not including the full game is common, and "toxic", yet no one cares when Nintendo/Game Freak/Pokemon company does it.
Now this I will stand behind despite enjoying Gen VII for the most part. I'm seriously scared that Pokemon Switch will launch next year and will be as half-baked as ORAS all over again, yet people will blindly eat it up because it's a new game on a new system. If SM was any indication, taking time on a game and having a year off is a better idea, especially if the spinoff game released in the gap year is as legendary and amazing as Pokemon Super MD. I'm fairly certain that while I think the PMD series has ended, they could at least make another great spinoff for 2018 to tide us over. Perhaps a Conquest sequel?
I wonder how much of this is on Nintendo though. They don't seem to believe in yearly releases even with their other major franchises, Pokemon seems to be the exception here. the TPC in general seems to behave in a very different way from a developement standpoint and I wonder just how things are handled at GameFreak if compared to the other Nintendo teams.
Not shifting the blame here of course, I just genuinely wonder why GF seems to act so differently.
regarding the games being too easy, legendary pokemons being badly implemented doesn't help.
A legendary pokemon should be a rare pokemon, with mystery surrounding it, that you get to interact with and eventually capture in a cool dedicated side adventure, it shouldn't be a weapon of massive destruction with stats that make all the other pokemons in the game (both your and your oponent pokemon) look like a joke.
They have been adding more and more overpowered pokemons as the franchise went on. More and more legendaries in a single game, add mega evolutions more recently, they new super moves or whatever.
What's the point? they are banned in competitive play, you can't use them in regular play either because they are overpowered as f*ck.
Why do legendary pokemons have to have over 600, let alone 750 points for stats? and now they add megaevolutions, to already broken pokemon?
Wouldn't it be awesome if you could add that legendary pokemon (that your're so prouf of capturing) to your team, without it negatively affecting game balance/difficulty? who knows, maybe you even get to get attached to it, instead of throwing it into the PC and forgeting about your new shiny pokemon.
A legendary pokemon should be a rare pokemon, with mystery surrounding it, that you get to interact with and eventually capture in a cool dedicated side adventure, it shouldn't be a weapon of massive destruction with stats that make all the other pokemons in the game (both your and your oponent pokemon) look like a joke.
They have been adding more and more overpowered pokemons as the franchise went on. More and more legendaries in a single game, add mega evolutions more recently, they new super moves or whatever.
What's the point? they are banned in competitive play, you can't use them in regular play either because they are overpowered as f*ck.
Why do legendary pokemons have to have over 600, let alone 750 points for stats? and now they add megaevolutions, to already broken pokemon?
Wouldn't it be awesome if you could add that legendary pokemon (that your're so prouf of capturing) to your team, without it negatively affecting game balance/difficulty? who knows, maybe you even get to get attached to it, instead of throwing it into the PC and forgeting about your new shiny pokemon.
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I think it played a large part in keeping Nintendo afloat during the Wii U era, if I'm honest. So it worked out for them.
It's safe, reliable profit, when last gen it was a coin flip if a new IP or game flopped or hit. But my entitled/risky/stupid passion for video games in me says that now is not the time for safe, reliable profits. Not when the Switch practically prints money now.
It shouldn't have to be this way anymore. In the past, yeah, the got away with it because there was no real way to deliver DLC to those systems. But now, there's no excuse. It makes zero sense to launch a game that's clearly half assed and then release the update the next year with more content.
I'm not sure what new mechanics they can add to the battle system, I just know that mega evolutions and Z-moves weren't good ones. They come off more as gimmicks compared to the changes we'd gotten up to that point and I sort of hope they don't return. At the least, if they do, they need to be greatly improved.
This might be controversial, but I think I'd actually like 2v2 to be the default for battles going forward. That format is already used for competitions as the main mode, so I think the game can do more. Maybe have ways of one partner defending the other, maybe have attacks that synergize/complement each other outside of the normal 1v1 rules. Who knows. I don't think they have to drastically change things. As much as people say turn based is old, we still have big budget series like Dragon Quest and SMT/Persona that still use them
This might be controversial, but I think I'd actually like 2v2 to be the default for battles going forward. That format is already used for competitions as the main mode, so I think the game can do more. Maybe have ways of one partner defending the other, maybe have attacks that synergize/complement each other outside of the normal 1v1 rules. Who knows. I don't think they have to drastically change things. As much as people say turn based is old, we still have big budget series like Dragon Quest and SMT/Persona that still use them
Ah, OK.
I thought you were dismissing the open world Pokemon suggestion because "Pokemon is already open world", which I've seen several times before.
We're on the same page now.
It sems like it's very clearly going to be the later then? cutscenes!!
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I'll be honest, I'm a bit surprised with the poll results. There was one guy in one of the US/UM threads saying that it'll probably flop compared to previous entries. Hopefully these results aren't supporting that prediction.
I remember seeing the Pokemon + Nobunaga's Ambition cross over years ago, I didn't know they localized it.
I'll check it out.
I think it's noteworthy because mid-generation Pokemon additions that aren't something ambiguous like a form change aren't something we've really ever gotten before.In fact, till now, it seemed like something GF was emphatically against.
Personally speaking, I love BW2, even more so over the original Unova titles. But the fact is, the new stuff it offered was in terms of plot structure and rearranging where you started on the map and add a few new areas. It's important not to overstate what one thing actually did.
I really doubt that'll happen. If it does, I'll fully admit it honestly, but even with the silliness with Amazon reviews in Japan it seems people are buying it. It may very well be down like third versions usually are but I'm not guessing it'll be too dramatic.
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I guess you could also chalk it up as the 3DS fading away faster than we expected if it does end up underperforming rather than this animosity towards Game Freak & Pokémon being widespread amongst the general gaming public.
Sun and Moon had one of the biggest launches in the franchise. That's going to be true regardless.
Yeah, I'd say the major stepup of PS2 RPGs were their out-of-battle design. More of a focus on having a variety of things to do and interact with in the overworld. Additional exploration mechanics, changing landscape, and a sense of scale.
Battle-wise, they brought a lot of wrinkles to the usual turn-based formula. FFX, for example, had battle-specific actions for certain boss fights, Wild Arms 3 had character positioning, WA4 had the hex battle system, Persona 3 had party AI and weaknesses, DDS had demon transformation and devouring, Shadow Hearts had the wheel, and so on. The PS2 gen just brought a ton of unique variety.
Well, the series' most important target audience obviously won't care that there's already been a dozen of samey iterations released when they weren't even born.
Mid generation Pokémon seems like the next logical step after bucket load of Mega Evolutions they added in the middle of the last generation. I just personally don't see why adding five Pokémon is all that big of a deal in the grand scheme of USUM's release.
You are understating the significance of creating entirely new towns, routes, gym leaders and the order of traveling around the region. The redesigns of characters and their roles, to age the region in a way to evoke a passage of time. This wasn't some 90% rehash like youve been trying to describe it as. It's especially strange trying to downplay the games when also trying to go bat for USUM which is largely the same.
Is Pokemon really all that accessible even? Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't imagine that many kids prefer choosing attacks in a menu, instead of having direct control. I know most in this thread like the turn-based stuff, but for most humans, the main draw of Pokemon has always been the creatures and collecting, not the battle system. (Not saying they have to ditch turn-based battles though, I'm mostly thinking of having a more immersive world, pokemon roaming the environment, modern graphics, etc. Preferably co-op.)
But sure, they'd have to clearly state that they will continue making the small-scale classic stuff, but that next up is a more ambitious and grander Pokemon adventure, so that veteran fans won't feel abandoned.
Because there's absolutely no way that a more ambitious Pokemon would flop.
I too agree that it's a logical step, but that doesn't make it any less unprecedented.
But BW2 did what it did by making what are, in operation, small changes that added up to refreshing , and it was on a system that was also less intensive to develop assets for. In other words, it "did a lot with what is actually very little." I'm not trying to downplay anything, I'm trying to add perspective.
That's presentation. I'm sure most of us agree that the series' presentation needs more work, especially now that's moving to consoles.
I meant "flop" relatively, as in "only" 5 million or something. Anyway, even if it the entry sold as well as previous entries, future ones could have trouble if people don't end up liking it. There's no reason to change the core gameplay, which is turn-based. The menu is accessible as it is simple to navigate and the battle only resumes once a choice is made.
Considering Sun and Moon are my new favs, I don't really want something hugely different.
Things I want:
Over the shoulder/ full 3D camera.
Difficulty settings.
Proper Pokémon size scaling.
Even more focus on story and world building.
More post game battle facilities.
Maybe voice acting.
Things I want:
Over the shoulder/ full 3D camera.
Difficulty settings.
Proper Pokémon size scaling.
Even more focus on story and world building.
More post game battle facilities.
Maybe voice acting.
Why do they abandon alot of features from older games, why the handholding, when we were kids and played Red & Blue we didn't have problems with no handholding, the sales were good as well, kids of today are different? i don't understand Gamefreak.
Maybe if Gamefreak hires a new writer/scenario designer. They can't write for shit. The most entertaining writing in the series seems to be in the localizations. If it was up to a larger, more complex world or storytelling and awful cutscenes I'd take the former
Resetera isn't representative of the wider gaming community as a whole.
That said, hopefully the poll results will actually convince you folks that there are a significant number of people here that are not happy with the way Game Freak is handling the series. And y'all need to stop circling the wagons the moment someone voices their unhappiness.
I think the animosity is absolutely justified.
Pokemon is one of the biggest franchises in all of gaming, and yet the budget and scope has never really grown accordingly. They've actually conditioned us to now expect less and less in each new game. 100+ Pokemon? Nah, not happening anymore. Post-game content? We might get a fetch-quest like the Delta Episode, but nothing meaningful. Remakes with all of the improvements of the updated version? Nah. Every new iteration also manages to remove fan-favourite features for no real reason.
I mean, let's compare XY and SM. XY had:
People shit on XY for having no post-game, but it arguably had more than Sun & Moon. It featured the Looker quest at the end of the game which I would argue is more meaningful than catching some Ultra Beasts. The Battle Tree in SM is also essentially a re-skin of the Maison from XY.
I'd like the series to become a true 3D RPG. I'm not asking for an open world Pokemon of the Wild, but I don't think it's asking too much to expect one of the most successful franchises in gaming to have a world with the scale of idk...Final Fantasy XII? I mean Sun & Moon is essentially one big corridor for the entire game. There are very few areas with meaningful areas to explore. Where were the labyrinth caves and enemy-filled dungeons of previous games?
Pokemon is one of the biggest franchises in all of gaming, and yet the budget and scope has never really grown accordingly. They've actually conditioned us to now expect less and less in each new game. 100+ Pokemon? Nah, not happening anymore. Post-game content? We might get a fetch-quest like the Delta Episode, but nothing meaningful. Remakes with all of the improvements of the updated version? Nah. Every new iteration also manages to remove fan-favourite features for no real reason.
I mean, let's compare XY and SM. XY had:
- Trainer Customisation, with more clothing options than SM. (Wouldn't be surprised if USUM still has less).
- Pokemon Amie, which wasn't meaningfully improved upon in SM.
- Super Training. Removed in SM.
- The PSS, which was so far superior to the Festival Plaza it's not even funny.
- O-Powers. Removed in SM.
- Horde battles. Removed in SM. SOS Battles are not as good.
- Friend Safari. Removed in SM, and no equivalent feature.
- Consecutive fishing. Removed in SM.
People shit on XY for having no post-game, but it arguably had more than Sun & Moon. It featured the Looker quest at the end of the game which I would argue is more meaningful than catching some Ultra Beasts. The Battle Tree in SM is also essentially a re-skin of the Maison from XY.
I'd like the series to become a true 3D RPG. I'm not asking for an open world Pokemon of the Wild, but I don't think it's asking too much to expect one of the most successful franchises in gaming to have a world with the scale of idk...Final Fantasy XII? I mean Sun & Moon is essentially one big corridor for the entire game. There are very few areas with meaningful areas to explore. Where were the labyrinth caves and enemy-filled dungeons of previous games?
Why? It's not as if one flop is going to kill the franchise. It could be a good thing to spur Game Freak on to mixing things up a bit. I also think that third versions are an outdated concept given the ubiquity of DLC - it's ridiculous to charge full price for the minor new additions USUM has added. They need to die. Sequels like B2/W2 should be the norm going forward if they want to pump out games yearly.
Well that's wrong. I've only catalogued Ultra Sun male stuff and it's already double what XY had
Not really much to improve about it really, but it is actually used with battle mechanics now to help heal your Pokémon. Is that not meaningful?
Mini-game yes, display no
I agree with this
Back in USUM
Subjective
Does there need to be one?
SOS Battles are your consecutive fishing. It's pretty much the same damned thing
Ok so in Generation 7 we have
86 new Pokémon
18 Alolan Forms
An obscene amount of alternate forms that could easily be separate Pokémon
Even excluding those extra forms, we're at 104, which happens to be 100+
Also they don't appear out of nowhere. The Ride Pager has a special ball in it and that's what is used to summon them
That Looker quest wasn't as big and less meaningful really. USUM expands on post-game narrative content too, plus the Battle Agency
Please refer me to DLC which has fundamentally changed a game's main narrative.
Oh you are not bringing that argument. You are not meant to buy both versions. Buying just one doesn't mean you don't have the full game.
Pokemon to me has always been a franchise that has been constrained by the portable hardware. There is so much potential to use the Pokemon canvas to make a large open RPG, which wasn't able to be tapped into until the Switch which offers HD visuals. Nintendo have gone big with Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey - I think i'd be very disappointed if the Switch Pokemon game doesn't also get special treatment and just sticks with the old formula. I say this as someone who isn't a fan of the series, i'm not particularly invested in it nor do I really care too much if a big change annoys the fanbase.
The Battle Maison had Triple Battles and Rotation Battles too, making the Battle Tree more of a cheap imitation. The AI partner was implemented much better in the Battle Maison as well.
Never thought I would miss the Battle Maison after completing it for a second time in ORAS, but, somehow, GameFreak managed to do it.
But TPC/Gamefreaks insistence of getting one last squeeze of the teet is one of the primary complaints against them. US/UM are lackluster releases that were unnecessary and they will got sales accordingly.
Was Platinum lackluster? Or Emerald? Or Crystal? Because this has a lot more new in it than those did