• To celebrate the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Steam, Xbox Games Studios has provided 5 Steam copies of the game and 5 Xbox One copies of the game! We will be giving these away in the Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Some Steam copies will also be given away to the PC Gaming Era community.
  • An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 3 days, 23 hours, 43 minutes, 25 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

What's with the bullshit "as a consumer why should I care about sales" rhetoric recently?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pankratous

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,391
It is ABSOLUTELY FINE to care about sales. If I really enjoy a platform, game, series, or whatever, then obviously I am happy if if does well and sells a lot because it then means I'LL GET MORE OF IT.

It seems ever since Phil Spencer said "stop caring about sales", people on this website are going out of their way to peddle this "as a consumer why should I care" bullshit every time sales numbers are mentioned. Even in sales threads!

By caring about sales you are not automatically a corporate shill or trying to be friends with the corporation. You just want more good shit.

Of course, it can be taken too far (see: console wars) but there is absolutely no harm in being enthusiastic about sales.

Please stop the "as a consumer" posts regarding sales.
 

jcs

Member
Aug 7, 2018
1,949
More sales -> more chance of a sequel or similar games made in the future. Simple as that.
 

Viale

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,924
Must have been missing these posts, but you're 100% correct. There's nothing wrong with being happy a game you like is doing well and getting some recognition.
 

Starlatine

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,629
You're not a shareholder. Its one thing to be happy a game you enjoy is selling well, its another to turn into a cheerleader for a plastic box. Don't worry sony wont stop making the playstation even if they get a slight sales reduction for a month
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,185
It seems ever since Phil Spencer said "stop caring about sales", people on this website are going out of their way to peddle this "as a consumer why should I care" bullshit every time sales numbers are mentioned.
He didnt say that tho.

is as gamers you should focus on what you want, not focus on, like, my P&L [profit and loss statement], or the P&L of the console you chose to invest in. I see this dialogue about somebody worried that somehow Xbox is gonna make less money, or their console is gonna make less money
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,388
Must have been missing these posts, but you're 100% correct. There's nothing wrong with being happy a game you like is doing well and getting some recognition.
I think this thread is related to the thread that says that Xbox One family sold the most on BF and a dev whas asking how much more money PS4 and Switch made because the deals were not as good.
For games, I agree of course.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,969
As already said in another thread, the sales/money argument is a typical proxy for console wars, oftentimes under the form of concern trolling. It's annoying and, yes, should probably stop.
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,155
I also am happy when a game I like is doing well, increases the chances of quality post-launch support and sequels. But turning into football hooligans over which plastic box is selling more on a month-by-month basis or whether the new Sony or the new Nintendo games sells more this week is just insanity masked as consumer interest. We don't have the budgets, the marketing spends, the investors' expectations. In the case of consoles, what's profitable and what isn't is made out of so many factors that console sales alone don't even paint a clear picture anymore between subscriptions, accessories, first party games and whatnot. I'm happy that you are happy about the success about the console of your choice, but there's a reason a lot of people don't obsess over decimals, and it's not because Phil Spencer told us.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,405
It is ABSOLUTELY FINE to care about sales. If I really enjoy a platform, game, series, or whatever, then obviously I am happy if if does well and sells a lot because it then means I'LL GET MORE OF IT.
I also enjoy chicken but I never cared about chicken sales going up or down.
It seems ever since Phil Spencer said "stop caring about sales", people on this website are going out of their way to peddle this "as a consumer why should I care" bullshit every time sales numbers are mentioned. Even in sales threads!
Now this paragraph shows your true intention for this thread.
Please stop the "as a consumer" posts regarding sales.
Who are you to tell people what they should or not should post about?
 

Sparkedglory2

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,586
I care when it means a franchise I like will get sequels. It sucks when your favorite franchise is something like Ace Combat and you have to wonder if they’re selling enough to continue on.

hell there are many gamers who have it way worse as far as not knowing if their favorites will continue
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,071
You're not a shareholder. Its one thing to be happy a game you enjoy is selling well, its another to turn into a cheerleader for a plastic box. Don't worry sony wont stop making the playstation even if they get a slight sales reduction for a month
Yet, great games tanking generally means less games in that style. Prey is one of my favorites of the generation. It ranked. Do you think we’ll get a sequel? I don’t. I think in cases like this certainly make sense to show interest.

Conversely, if streaming were a huge smash hit out of the gate, it would only encourage companies to invest further in this potentially moving away from a traditional model.

Fortnite’s success has certainly has certainly had its fair share of negative repercussions.

This is where the interest stems from.
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
2,945
Why are you mentioning console warring as a extreme case of caring about on one sentece, and then pointing at Phil Spencer and a certain userbase on another?
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
2,306
He didnt say that tho.
Its reasonable to car about that though. You invest quite a big chunk of change in a platform, and that platform actually existing in a few years depends on it selling well enough. Not to mention side effects like third parties actually bringing out games, there being people online to play with.
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,714
Being zealous about profits is being a corporate shill. Doing well, compared to generate as much money from consumers as possible are 2 different positions. Phil is right. This line of thinking helps validate policies like preventing digital refunds for example, the need to limit uncertainty and create obstacles to make as much money as possible.
 
Last edited:

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,969
I also am happy when a game I like is doing well, increases the chances of quality post-launch support and sequels. But turning into football hooligans over which plastic box is selling more on a month-by-month basis or whether the new Sony or the new Nintendo games sells more this week is just insanity masked as consumer interest. We don't have the budgets, the marketing spends, the investors' expectations. In the case of consoles, what's profitable and what isn't is made out of so many factors that console sales alone don't even paint a clear picture anymore between subscriptions, accessories, first party games and whatnot. I'm happy that you are happy about the success about the console of your choice, but there's a reason a lot of people don't obsess over decimals, and it's not because Phil Spencer told us.
Good post.
 

Starlatine

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,629
I also enjoy chicken but I never celebrated chicken sales going up or down.
You should, what if they stop making chicken forever!!!

Yet, great games tanking generally means less games in that style. Prey is one of my favorites of the generation. It ranked. Do you think we’ll get a sequel? I don’t. I think in cases like this certainly make sense to show interest.

Conversely, if streaming were a huge smash hit out of the gate, it would only encourage companies to invest further in this potentially moving away from a traditional model.

Fortnite’s success has certainly has certainly had its fair share of negative repercussions.

This is where the interest stems from.
I have my share of games that i liked and failed to raise interest from the big public. it sucks, but thats how life goes. no matter how obnoxiously you shout, you still wont get the series a sequel on your own. no matter how much you hate fortnite you won't stop it from being relevant alone. you're just annoying everyone else.
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,100
I think Spencer has been (deliberately?) misinterpreted by some. He was saying it's his job to worry about MS' finances re GP, that's what no one really should care about for reasons that should be obvious. It's fine to discuss sales and whatnot and I'm sure Spencer isn't that bothered by our monthly NPD threads on that subject.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,071
You should, what if they stop making chicken forever!!!

I have my share of games that i liked and failed to raise interest from the big public. it sucks, but thats how life goes. no matter how obnoxiously you shout, you still wont get the series a sequel on your own. no matter how much you hate fortnite you won't stop it from being relevant alone. you're just annoying everyone else.
I’m just noting where the interest in sales stems from. Who said anything about shouting?

I disagree with you, by the way. I can at least shine a light on great games too via coverage.
 

Stygr

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,289
Also there is a big difference between:

"I'm glad x game sold y million copies" and "I wonder how much revenue x developer made by selling y copies at z price".


As a consumer you should care about playing mainly and then take a look at sales and move on, sales are not for you or me or other people consuming the medium, sales are a metric for publishers, devs and shareholders and not all successful games are getting sequels and not all games selling poorly are not getting sequels, even if you care or not, the people greenlighting projects does not give a fuck about what we think about the sales at all
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,921
The thing is, when you're happy a game made a million more than its already 10M, perhaps you're, indeed, a corporate shill.

Unless it's an indie game, those numbers don't mean anything anymore.
Not just indie games. Like smaller first party series. I'm going to root for metroid games to sell as much as possible because its always at risk of going on haitus from low sales.
 

Deriok

Avenger
Nov 27, 2017
307
What Spencer meant is not to worrytheir profit, he never said anything about sales. Big difference there chief.
 

noyram23

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,924
Because most of the time we are corporate stan and we have to notify other when we switch to normal consumer pov
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,810
There is 2 parts to sales numbers.

The first is as you say, a successful console or game series will see more content for this console or game series.

The second is perhaps a bit harder to accept; we all follow the games industry and while we don't want to have console war threads, the competition between the consoles is part of our entertainment, that plays out in sales numbers.
 

Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,189
My main issue with it is you know, caring about sales means you kind of start cheerleading for sketchy mobile games that suck the life out of creativity. But hey, that makes (Nintendo, for example) money, which definitely isn't an opportunity cost for stuff I actually want to play, no way.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,969
I have my share of games that i liked and failed to raise interest from the big public. it sucks, but thats how life goes. no matter how obnoxiously you shout, you still wont get the series a sequel on your own. no matter how much you hate fortnite you won't stop it from being relevant alone. you're just annoying everyone else.
I'd add that many "underperforming" games are still getting made, and could even go into the argument of asking sequels which are many times less well received than the original.

Like, look at how some of those successful games turned out. Am I the only one thinking e.g. Assassin's Creed would be in a much better place right now if it didn't become a freakin' behemoth?

Discussing sales is why not. But cheering for them is weird.
 

steviejd1

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,440
When I go into sales discussion here I usually look at things from a business perspective and not a consumer one as I see that as giving better discussion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.