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When Sega took on Zelda, they really went for the jugular

WestEgg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,237
The game does seem pretty interesting, surprised I’ve never heard of it before. Regarding the morality aspect of it though, I can understand challenging the classic murder hobo stereotype associated with RPGs in general, but I don’t feel it entirely applies to Zelda itself. There are plenty of instances of Link having friendly interactions with the monsters that aren’t hostile to him, like the “It’s a secret to everybody” moblin and the other monster you bribe with meat in Zelda 1, the Zora you buy the flippers from in LttP, and a few similar instances in LA which also predates this game. Later games would push this more with a greater emphasis on non human races, most notably Majora’s Mask, but those obviously come after this game.
 

SpoonyGundam

Member
Nov 18, 2018
115
I think Centy was the first game I played that actually took a serious stab at commenting on social issues, certainly the first where it was the point rather than a minor footnote at least. Way ahead of its time, and I definitely like it much more than any Zelda.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
I'm not sure making a game that failed to resonate with a wide enough audience and hence never getting a sequel, spinoff, or even a proper port to any future system, is really considered "going for the jugular". A more apt phrase to for this game is "You come at the king, you best not miss". Unfortunately for all their best intentions, the game did miss the audience and hence is largely forgotten until brought up again in threads like this that deal with obscure and forgotten games.

Sorry that the truth hurts, but Zelda takes no prisoners. This game is not bad though.
I have to agree. Never had any Sega system outside of a Dreamcast, but my buddy did and had this. While it was fun with wasn't close to going for the jugular or even being on par. It was a good Zelda type game but missed in a lot of areas.
 

SephLuis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,241
Never heard of this game, but now I'm curious to play it someday. Thanks a lot for the insight.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,449
Wow. What? I never heard of this game in my life, let alone it being a Sega game. Why didn't it take off? Why can't we see it today? In fact, why aren't there more Zelda like games today anyway.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,121
Philadelphia, PA
I think another thing to consider is the game has three different names depending on region. In the US it's Crusader of Centy, in PAL regions it was Soliel, and in Japan Shin Sōseiki Ragnacënty. So it's not like it's single identity was recognizable.

As for saying it missed in a lot of areas. I'd go so far to say Centy did somethings even better than what Zelda did. Especially so on narration and story bits. Beyond Oasis to degree as well I suppose.
 

Morisaki

Member
Oct 29, 2017
134
Given that quite a bit of people in this thread never heard of this game its more like Sega went for the jugular and missed. Never heard of this game myself. I had assumed from the title that it would be about the Oasis series. But it does look very interesting.
 

SuperFakerBros

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,747
The game looks neat enough. I'd be down to give it a shot if it came to modern consoles. That being said, it looks more like SEGA went for the jugular but missed than anything else as only a select few people even remembered the game

Wow. What? I never heard of this game in my life, let alone it being a Sega game. Why didn't it take off? Why can't we see it today? In fact, why aren't there more Zelda like games today anyway.
Probably because Zelda has only recently become relatively popular again. By the time games like Skyward Sword came out, there were plenty more popular fantasy / medieval titles or RPGs, such as Skyrim or even Dark Souls
 

Prof Bathtub

Member
Apr 26, 2018
1,908
I'm sure the game is great in it's own right, but I think it's a bit odd to suggest Sega went for the jugular when pretty much nobody ever mentions this game anymore, whereas everyone know ALTTP. This of course isn't necessarily an indicator of actual quality, but it does make me wonder how much stuff like nostalgia might be playing in to the OPs opinion here. That said, it does look great and I'd certainly be willing to give it a shot if it was rereleased in a convenient way
I'm not sure making a game that failed to resonate with a wide enough audience and hence never getting a sequel, spinoff, or even a proper port to any future system, is really considered "going for the jugular". A more apt phrase to for this game is "You come at the king, you best not miss". Unfortunately for all their best intentions, the game did miss the audience and hence is largely forgotten until brought up again in threads like this that deal with obscure and forgotten games.

Sorry that the truth hurts, but Zelda takes no prisoners. This game is not bad though.
Well, one also has to ask to what extent some of these Zelda-like titles were actually meant to be "Zelda-killers" in the more modern sense. Back then, there wasn't really an iron-clad sense of what kind of game design was the strict domain of Zelda, so you have many top-down action/adventure/RPG games that experimented with this and that. (Though Centy seems visually inspired by ALttP's style/perspective.)
 
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duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,850
Singapore
As for saying it missed in a lot of areas. I'd go so far to say Centy did somethings even better than what Zelda did. Especially so on narration and story bits. Beyond Oasis to degree as well I suppose.
The only thing Beyond Oasis did better was graphics. The animation and sprite detail was insane for the time. But in terms of puzzles, moment to moment combat, and boss game design, Beyond Oasis is the weakest one compared to Centy and Zelda.

There's only one "Zelda-killer" on Genesis and it's Landstalker. Not surprising that most people actually remember that game, and it's the one that you can buy on Steam now. Sega remembers what is worth remembering.
 

dabri

Member
Nov 2, 2017
923
In all seriousness, why aren’t you making these into a YouTube series.
You’ve basically outlined the scripts. These would do well.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,408
Mama Robotnik, do you have a list of your threads besides the Sega stuff? I could swear I remember other threads. I’d love to read through them when I have some free time.

Great job, as usual.
 

Ghost_Messiah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
637
I'm sure the game is great in it's own right, but I think it's a bit odd to suggest Sega went for the jugular when pretty much nobody ever mentions this game anymore, whereas everyone know ALTTP. This of course isn't necessarily an indicator of actual quality, but it does make me wonder how much stuff like nostalgia might be playing in to the OPs opinion here. That said, it does look great and I'd certainly be willing to give it a shot if it was rereleased in a convenient way
I'm not sure making a game that failed to resonate with a wide enough audience and hence never getting a sequel, spinoff, or even a proper port to any future system, is really considered "going for the jugular". A more apt phrase to for this game is "You come at the king, you best not miss". Unfortunately for all their best intentions, the game did miss the audience and hence is largely forgotten until brought up again in threads like this that deal with obscure and forgotten games.

Sorry that the truth hurts, but Zelda takes no prisoners. This game is not bad though.
Guys all the late-gen Genesis stuff was fucked. Even the much more remembered heavy hitters like Ristar, Vectorman and Streets of Rage 3. The only game I can think of that survived that timeframe was (the heavily marketed) Sonic and Knuckles. This was because in 1994/5:

1. Sega stopped supporting the Genesis, focusing on the 32X momentarily and when that failed, the Saturn
2. Nintendo carried on supporting the SNES, hardcore, as the N64 was still ways off
3. PlayStation and Saturn on the horizon. The PSX and Saturn launched in Japan '94. The US and EU '95.

Then you have the late-gen stuff that was Japan only like Golden Axe 3 and Monster World IV. Hell, this is a pattern of most late-gen Sega games because Sega had a tendency to drop their consoles. Like Sonic Triple Trouble, Burning Rangers and Crazy Taxi 2.

Sometimes Sega would "revive" the games by repeatedly including them in their constant Genesis collections (Streets of Rage 3, Golden Axe 3) or even with standalone re-releases (Monster World IV) but Sega are famous for treating their legacy games with nowhere near the care that Nintendo does.

To Mama Robotnik's credit (amazing thread by the way, love this series, some of the best threads on Era) Soleil might be the greatest casualty outside of some obscure Saturn stuff because it did the Burning Rangers thing of "let's act like this never existed and never re-release it in any form ever again".

TLDR: Sega stopped supporting the Genesis, never supported this game, then or now, and Sega ultimately gonna Sega.
 

gappvembe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
287
Funny story about this game. It’s pretty expensive, so much so, when I saw it for $10 or so from China no less, I figured it was a repo. Well it definitely was. I played it for about half a day, liking it. I saved it and went about the rest of my day. When I fired it up again, it didn’t save anything. I tried again, played just long enough to save. Did. Shut off, turn on.... New Game. Lesson learned.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,469
Seems like the kind of game Sega could have added animated cutscenes for the intro and ending and slapped on the Saturn if they cared enough to
 

BassForever

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,673
CT
Not sure how I’ve never seen this game, and I look for obscure gems like this on old consoles, will have to track it down and give it a whirl
 

Miscend

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
265
Sega couldn’t competently make this game in 3D. Which is what Nintendo has done with their franchises. They have now transitioned into a publisher specialising in PC strategy games.
 

ChrisD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,007
Never heard of this game at all, but seeing those gifs (and the wonderful write up of course!) really has me wishing it was easily available.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,121
Philadelphia, PA
This is the first time I've ever heard someone say the Boss design and combat for Beyond Oasis was weak compared to ALTTP, but opinions and all that.

Beyond Oasis had a far diverse moveset and combat options. There was definitely far less gimmick bosses that required you to use the specific item you obtained from the dungeon as is in the case in ALTTP for example.

As for Sega knowing what's worth remembering. It's a convenient excuse to say this in regards in Landstalker in the same sentence factoring Beyond Oasis is also available on Steam too.
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
I really need to sit down and play this game and Landstalker one day.

EDIT: And I guess Beyond Oasis too?
 
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Whales

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,138
wtf that story recap made the game actually look sick. Wow.

It looks very fun to play too..
 

Zen Hero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,523
Never heard of this, this sounds crazy. I can't imagine liking this game though. Based on your description, I think I would feel super gross playing it. This makes me really appreciate Undertale giving you a choice to spare the monsters.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,850
Singapore
This is the first time I've ever heard someone say the Boss design and combat for Beyond Oasis was weak compared to ALTTP, but opinions and all that.
Why compare with LttP when you can compare with LA? Which is after all, the best 2D Zelda game ever made.

Beyond Oasis had a far diverse moveset and combat options.
More options are useless when the game itself doesn't really necessitate the use of it. The combat in the game is pretty boring because the player combat options and the combat encounters aren't really designed to make the best use of each other. So it's like having potential but squandering it.
 

Aadiboy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,672
Feels like people are only focusing on the "going for the jugular" quote and not on the game itself.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
How come this is the very first time I’ve heard about this game? It looks good from the gifs. Did it dissapoint or why did no one ever talks about this?
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,121
Philadelphia, PA
How come this is the very first time I’ve heard about this game? It looks good from the gifs. Did it dissapoint or why did no one ever talks about this?
Centy, came out very late in the life of the Genesis / Megadrive, in fact by the time it came out it was during the dark period when the 32X and Sega CD were in circulation, so it was a case of the game being overshadowed by the 94 / 95 SNES library and not soon after the PSX and Saturn came out so it's just drowned out.

Nothing against the quality of the game. It is fantastic and worth playing. Beyond Oasis too.
 

Chrono

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,339
This is easily the number one game I want most on the Genesis Mini. I really hope they add it in there, as the game definitely deserves more exposure.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,158
dammit, this thread is going to have me installing a genesis emulator again.

Time for some Centy and some Shadowrun.
 
I just bought the JP version a couple weeks ago, just to support the game design. Now I have to learn fluent Japanese to actually enjoy it to fullest...

Nonetheless, thanks to this thread, I feel vindicated in my purchase.

Feels like people are only focusing on the "going for the jugular" quote and not on the game itself.
Yes, and it seems like most people are missing the point of why that phrase was used.

I think OP meant to use that phrase in the sense that the narrative of Centy completely undermines the motives behind why the Zelda series exists.
By making the player question the legitimacy of the traditional hero role, it downplays the importance of the hero in the Zelda story, thus making the Zelda story feel underdeveloped.

That’s pretty brutal.
 

TheIlliterati

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,951
I played this game from a Blockbuster rental and adored it. The story and gameplay blew my mind at the time. I often thought back fondly to it even before I finally started seeing it occasionally mentioned in threads like these. I really hope it gets a re release, as I would love to replay it.
 

Gearkeeper 8A

Member
Oct 27, 2017
229
The only one that failed this game was sega, another thing going for the jugular i don't think is correct, because this game never threated zelda ALTTP prestige, the fact that very few people know about this game is proof of that, this doesn't mean that the game is bad or isn't better that link to the past of course.
 

sheaaaa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
886
It is possible to go for the jugular and miss, which is what seems to have happened to this game. The number of people in here taking issue with an innocuous phrase is absurd.
 

Candescence

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,473
I can't say I'm not interested in trying this game out, but while the "humans unjustly persecuting monsters" theme was novel at the time, I do think 1) Undertale handles the subject more elegantly by actually providing the player with the choice to perpetuate the cycle of violence and persecution whereas Crusader of Centy seems to indulge in "but thou must" to make a point, and 2) even in the context of Zelda at the time, Link could interact with friendly non-humans, the vast majority of monsters he fought were either hostile animals or outright evil minions of Ganon, who is a legitimately evil antagonist, so trying to recontextualize Zelda in terms of Crusader of Centy's themes doesn't really hold water for me.
 
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balohna

Member
Nov 1, 2017
756
I had a Genesis growing up but have no recollection of this game existing. Looks cool though! Can't help but notice Atlus published it in NA, I guess Sega wasn't confident? Not that Atlus publishing a first party game is a bad sign... (See: Demon's Souls)
 

IrishNinja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,654
Vice City
to this day, i wish idve known about centy in '95 cause idve been all over it, just like i was with golden axe warrior

it's been crazy expensive for years (and unlike many others, it's legit a great game) and all i have to show for it is this crappy repro cart from the years before i knew about everdrives
 

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
This thread warms my heart. Such an amazing beautiful game. Better than lttp and i'm a big zelda fan
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
The more I read about this game the more intrigued I am. It should’ve been at least a sleeper hit!

Regarding how this game got past the censors I find it funny that while Mama Robotnik cant stop thinking about all the stuff games in the 90s usually couldn’t get away with like using a judeo Christian god and making him a villain meanwhile I’m just sitting here wondering how this game got a K-A rating from the ESRB??? Seriously, what happened there? This was an incorrectly rated game if I ever saw one.

If Earthbound got (correctly) upgraded to a T for Teen from its WiiU rerelease forward then this game should’ve been at least a T as well!

I’m in awe Sega never rereleased it in any way. How many Genesis collections have they pumped out with Sonic The Hedgehog 2 for the 47th time but this game continues to be ignored? Disgusting.

We sure this is a Sega owned IP nowadays? Cause I see Atlus there in the box and yesterday I didn’t even knew this game existed so I dunno.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,336
I had a Genesis growing up but have no recollection of this game existing. Looks cool though! Can't help but notice Atlus published it in NA, I guess Sega wasn't confident? Not that Atlus publishing a first party game is a bad sign... (See: Demon's Souls)
SOA decided to publish only Beyond Oasis instead, probably didn't want to do 2 games in the same category (action adventure "Zelda clone/killer") so close together. They skipped a lot of interesting late term MD releases for various reasons (Alien Soldier, Pulseman, Monster World IV, Golden Axe III, Surging Aura, Crusader of Centy, OutRunners, Puyo Puyo 2, The Hybrid Front, Pengo, Panic!, Popful Mail, Legend of Heroes I-II, Lord Monarch,, etc) some of which other 3rd parties like Data East, Working Designs or Atlus picked up.
 

hipsterbodega

Member
Oct 30, 2017
414
I thought Crusader was ok, maybe the best of the Zelda also-rans, but truthfully, it and its ilk don’t really measure up. Neutopia, Alundra, Beyond Oasis, etc all end up missing something that makes Zelda Zelda.
 

Oreiller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
I thought the game itself was fine but I was really shocked by how good its story is. It's really thought provoking, especially for a game from this era.