-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Where does Tomb Raider go from here?
- Thread starter oni-link
- Start date
I think they should focus on what worked in Shadow.
- Exploration.
- Challenge Tombs (more of these)
- More involved climbing, more platforming
- If they need to have some form of combat in the game make it more stealth focused, and less action oriented.
- Stronger characters.
- Use the lore of the tombs, more interwoven in the game, don't just have them in documents and so on.
But they should really focus on the exploration cause that's was what I liked the most in the trilogy.
- Exploration.
- Challenge Tombs (more of these)
- More involved climbing, more platforming
- If they need to have some form of combat in the game make it more stealth focused, and less action oriented.
- Stronger characters.
- Use the lore of the tombs, more interwoven in the game, don't just have them in documents and so on.
But they should really focus on the exploration cause that's was what I liked the most in the trilogy.
Totally. The voice acting alone in TR2013 made me not even consider playing Rise and Shadow, I couldn't bear more dozen hours of... that.
(I hope) away from mommy/daddy issues (though I love the Legend trilogy) and to pure artifact hunting that may or may not lead to saving the world. I miss the level to level structure but if an open world is varied I don't mind either. A remake of TRII would be nice too.
Yeah, most likely under that new studio Crystal Northwest.
Probably episodic and with GaaS elements. But now inspired by Venom or Aquaman instead of Batman Begins :v
That'd be awesome, a heavily puzzle-focused series again.
And conversly, it'd be interesting to see Crystal again tackling Soul Reaver, I think could become their own "passion project"
That is the ideal TR. I'd gladly take Minecraft type of graphics or first-person perspective if it's what it takes to do that kind of traversal "believable" again.
- Make platforming not automated/cinematic and have it be an important aspect of game where player has to master running, jumping and climbing.
- Drop the RPG mechanics completely - this is a prime example of series where those elements don't fit, similar to Assassin's Creed
- Have difficult puzzles in the main story
- Drop the secrret organization/cult stuff and make Lara encounter more interesting enemies as main villains
Too much to ask, I know.
- Drop the RPG mechanics completely - this is a prime example of series where those elements don't fit, similar to Assassin's Creed
- Have difficult puzzles in the main story
- Drop the secrret organization/cult stuff and make Lara encounter more interesting enemies as main villains
Too much to ask, I know.
Should be like the original, huge levels filled with puzzle and combat is a rarity and intense. More about suspense and exploration than action.
I loved the Reboot and think they went in the wrong direction with the sequels. Id like TR to be very tight and linear without too many RPG and Open World features. If they went full Uncharted with the trilogy it would have been for the better, not perfect but better.
Maybe ditch the rich heiress thing? Make her a poor grad student in a study program with a famous archaeologist who also happens to be an artifact smuggler. Have her uncover the lie but be stuck in a situation where she has to use her wits to get out of a sticky situation. Meanwhile, racing to solve the big archaeological mystery at the center of her adventure. The tone would be less grim, with a plucky Lara who needs her charm and her book learning to survive the ordeal. Not unlike MJ from the Spider-Man games but less linear and given many more options for how to tackle a problem. Maybe the game is based on a set of non-linear tasks the lead archaeologist sets for Lara, and depending how you accomplish them (at your leisure) grants you a different grade for the course. I would love less hand holding when something like a hidden cave is nearby and more environmental cues. Maybe you hear a strange whistling sound on one screen and can follow it to the source?
It will be back. Another reboot in 4-5 years. Too much interest and money to just let this one lie dormant, but it does need a small break and refresh with the dev.
Not really sure about the whole "back to its roots" thing though. The OG Core games were part of a mid 90's design philosophy for early 3d/polygon based gaming where you admittedly sort of "fought with the controls" every step of the way, none of it was intuitive and it was acceptable back in its day because the graphics were so dazzling for its time. (I often lump the early tomb raiders in with the old Resident Evil games- although different genres, gameplay perspectives, they shared the "tank controls" Of course, none of these mechanics would fly today.
And as a previous poster mentioned, and I wholeheartedly agree, people will endlessly gripe/debate over the amount of action/killing vs. isolation/exploring had in these games, but if the series is going to remain AAA, its going to have that action. A true "back to roots" isolation/platformer would have to a be a smaller game, in both budget and scope. And I don't think they will go there with this series, but who knows? Maybe an episodic thing like the recent Hitman game would work?
Not really sure about the whole "back to its roots" thing though. The OG Core games were part of a mid 90's design philosophy for early 3d/polygon based gaming where you admittedly sort of "fought with the controls" every step of the way, none of it was intuitive and it was acceptable back in its day because the graphics were so dazzling for its time. (I often lump the early tomb raiders in with the old Resident Evil games- although different genres, gameplay perspectives, they shared the "tank controls" Of course, none of these mechanics would fly today.
And as a previous poster mentioned, and I wholeheartedly agree, people will endlessly gripe/debate over the amount of action/killing vs. isolation/exploring had in these games, but if the series is going to remain AAA, its going to have that action. A true "back to roots" isolation/platformer would have to a be a smaller game, in both budget and scope. And I don't think they will go there with this series, but who knows? Maybe an episodic thing like the recent Hitman game would work?
Make another Lara Croft GO, that game was pretty fun. Maybe differentiated in that you have full 3D motion, but each map in GO was a puzzle in itself. Keep the bow from the modern trilogy, but with giant snakes and spiders and other monsters instead of armed cultists.
Guys, if you all want more of the old same, you can play those games. The reboot was good enough, I don't think franchises should go on forever, especially one like TR, so there's that.
I have yet to play Shadow, but I really enjoyed the first two. Their weakest point was the story, but I thought the gameplay, exploration, traversal, etc. were arguably better than any of the Uncharted games. The fact that Shadow focuses more on the exploration and tones down the combat makes it something I want to play sooner rather than later, so maybe the series needs to keep doing that -- differentiate it from Uncharted.
i.e. with pistols and dinosaurs :) It's all I've been wanting, really. The breathy, gasping, falling, gory, quoting, overly-serious Lara isn't very fun or interesting.
Drake did all those things but at least he had a cocky and likeable (somewhat arrogant) personality to make him stand out a little.
If the game didn't take itself so seriously, I would've enjoyed it more. The gritty reboot thing didn't do it for me.
Give her a looong break to make people happy to see it again, with new ideas, technology, maybe a different direction than graphics actually. Maybe make it totally about finding treasure while navigating organic tombs. Maybe when VR is big or something, I don't know.
Take out the head-on combat systems and put it in the very back seat. Switch to lock-on shooting like Anniversary had. It emphasizes the game as a puzzle-platform so it doesn't get hijacked by rudimentary shooting systems. At the same time the lock-on system highlights strengths such as evading enemies, awareness of surroundings. frees the player to maneuver around enemies and shocases Lara's movement skills. And like in Anniversary it rewards the player's risk and skill (last-second dodges gets you headshots etc.).
"Where does Tomb Raider go from here?" Well, this trash reboot will be back where it belongs. In the junkyard.
Give me back original TB, for f**k sake.
Give me back original TB, for f**k sake.
Go back to something like the previous trilogy. Id also be fine with going back to a PS1 style adventure.
Also dont be scared of Duel Pistols. That's iconic to her, not a Bow and Arrow.
Also dont be scared of Duel Pistols. That's iconic to her, not a Bow and Arrow.
Ironically she was renamed Lara Croft due thinking Americans would not be able to pronounce her original intended name Laura Cruz, also changing her Latina origin.
It's probably time to look back to the original games and recent styles of game like Dark Souls for inspiration (I'll elaborate on that, no I don't want Soul Raider).
1) The storytelling and cutscenes
- The recent games have had some strong actor performances here and there, and the cutscenes are super impressive technically/artistically. But I don't think the storytelling/writing have been good enough to justify the money being spent on all these open world NPCs/ characters in cutscenes. If they made a new TR game more of an isolated experience with less cutscenes/characters, it might streamline the story while also reducing production costs significantly.
- Maybe instead of going for hours of the typical mundane "explorer talk" about artifacts and trinity and blah blah blah, they just focus on dramatic 30-60 second long cutscenes like the one at the start of this video.
THAT is awesome. ^ Use little scenes like this to introduce a trap, a puzzle, a new enemy or boss. Or maybe reward the player with a slick cutscene when they finish a "chapter".
2) Cinematic scripted events / escape sequences
- These were all the rage last gen with games like Uncharted and Tomb Raider (2013) pushing the envelope on how cool you could make a 3 minute long escape/collapse sequence. But is it worth the money and time spent, in 2018? This kind of platforming isn't as impressive anymore (in my opinion) and a common complaint you see online is how the platforming in these games amounts to holding forward and pressing x to jump or climb. This could be another thing to cut and save production costs. And they could be replaced with platforming with actual tension and excitement, where you need precision and quick reflexes.
3) Gameplay, challenge, and how it ties into today's social gaming space
- The recent Tomb Raider games have very strong character movement, platforming mechanics and shooting. But the games are lacking spice. The platforming/climbing have too much assistance and are too forgiving, the combat encounters pit you against dudes with weapons and animals that all fight you the same way. The puzzles are actually really good but many of them are tucked away in optional tombs. All of this amounts to a game that doesn't have many memorable moments or points of discussion with your friends/social media/forums. And that social/online aspect is very important in games today.
- Compare the discussion/social presence at release for Souls games to modern Tomb Raider games. Dark Souls is SUPER interesting to discuss and/or watch on Twitch because it's challenging, offers memorable enemy counters and bosses, and leaves it up to players to discover things on their own. You play the games together as a community and that is very exciting and appealing to today's gamer. What is there to discuss in the new Tomb Raiders? There's no memorable fights, no memorable jumps, few if any challenging sections or bosses to get "stuck" on. There's also no excitement or tension in watching another player play it on Twitch, because they're going to all play this safe game the exact same way. You could say "well the puzzles are worth discussing" but they're undermined by the fact that they're completely optional. There's no "oh did you get to the rotating spike tower death puzzle part yet?!" because it's not part of the "main quest" and the game lacks proper structure and progression.
- Generate excitement, and you will generate sales.
4) TLDR
And for the record, I love this series and own every Crystal D game. But looking at today's market and what gamers want, I think it's time for another shakeup to the formula.
1) The storytelling and cutscenes
- The recent games have had some strong actor performances here and there, and the cutscenes are super impressive technically/artistically. But I don't think the storytelling/writing have been good enough to justify the money being spent on all these open world NPCs/ characters in cutscenes. If they made a new TR game more of an isolated experience with less cutscenes/characters, it might streamline the story while also reducing production costs significantly.
- Maybe instead of going for hours of the typical mundane "explorer talk" about artifacts and trinity and blah blah blah, they just focus on dramatic 30-60 second long cutscenes like the one at the start of this video.
THAT is awesome. ^ Use little scenes like this to introduce a trap, a puzzle, a new enemy or boss. Or maybe reward the player with a slick cutscene when they finish a "chapter".
2) Cinematic scripted events / escape sequences
- These were all the rage last gen with games like Uncharted and Tomb Raider (2013) pushing the envelope on how cool you could make a 3 minute long escape/collapse sequence. But is it worth the money and time spent, in 2018? This kind of platforming isn't as impressive anymore (in my opinion) and a common complaint you see online is how the platforming in these games amounts to holding forward and pressing x to jump or climb. This could be another thing to cut and save production costs. And they could be replaced with platforming with actual tension and excitement, where you need precision and quick reflexes.
3) Gameplay, challenge, and how it ties into today's social gaming space
- The recent Tomb Raider games have very strong character movement, platforming mechanics and shooting. But the games are lacking spice. The platforming/climbing have too much assistance and are too forgiving, the combat encounters pit you against dudes with weapons and animals that all fight you the same way. The puzzles are actually really good but many of them are tucked away in optional tombs. All of this amounts to a game that doesn't have many memorable moments or points of discussion with your friends/social media/forums. And that social/online aspect is very important in games today.
- Compare the discussion/social presence at release for Souls games to modern Tomb Raider games. Dark Souls is SUPER interesting to discuss and/or watch on Twitch because it's challenging, offers memorable enemy counters and bosses, and leaves it up to players to discover things on their own. You play the games together as a community and that is very exciting and appealing to today's gamer. What is there to discuss in the new Tomb Raiders? There's no memorable fights, no memorable jumps, few if any challenging sections or bosses to get "stuck" on. There's also no excitement or tension in watching another player play it on Twitch, because they're going to all play this safe game the exact same way. You could say "well the puzzles are worth discussing" but they're undermined by the fact that they're completely optional. There's no "oh did you get to the rotating spike tower death puzzle part yet?!" because it's not part of the "main quest" and the game lacks proper structure and progression.
- Generate excitement, and you will generate sales.
4) TLDR
- streamline the storytelling/open world/npcs/cutscenes -> allowing for a more focused cinematic experience with less dull moments and potentially reducing costs at the same time.
- streamline/reduce the amount of cinematic escape sequences and focus more on challenging platforming. Same thrills, and cost effective.
- Up the challenge of platforming, combat, add interesting bosses/enemies, and make puzzles part of the main quest. Make a game that is interesting to play, watch and talk about. Make a game that is memorable.
- streamline/reduce the amount of cinematic escape sequences and focus more on challenging platforming. Same thrills, and cost effective.
- Up the challenge of platforming, combat, add interesting bosses/enemies, and make puzzles part of the main quest. Make a game that is interesting to play, watch and talk about. Make a game that is memorable.
And for the record, I love this series and own every Crystal D game. But looking at today's market and what gamers want, I think it's time for another shakeup to the formula.
Last edited:
They'll never go back to a linear structure now, that's a given. If anything, we should expect them to shoehorn multiplayer in the next TR somehow, making it into a shared world service game - because they've heard that people love these.
Just finished Shadow and it was an okay romp , but in terms of story was all over the place....the tombs and world were pretty neat.
Personally would like a more oldschool design approach with a focus on exploration and isolation....get rid of the annoying sense prompt handholds and let people get lost and figure it out. More traps , more danger ..maybe a movement revamp where you can fall unless you walk...
Large interconnected , labyrinthine levels ....less dialogue..... spurts of combat with those dual pistols...more dinosaurs....more mysterious treasures......
Lol...ok, TR 2 remake :-)
Personally would like a more oldschool design approach with a focus on exploration and isolation....get rid of the annoying sense prompt handholds and let people get lost and figure it out. More traps , more danger ..maybe a movement revamp where you can fall unless you walk...
Large interconnected , labyrinthine levels ....less dialogue..... spurts of combat with those dual pistols...more dinosaurs....more mysterious treasures......
Lol...ok, TR 2 remake :-)
The new ones were very linear, the old ones not so much. And I never considered the PS 1 era ones linear.
The new ones were almost open world. The old ones were just a succession of levels with lots of backtracking in them.
Same style of games, just 10 years down the road. I want to see Lara in her 30's after she's learned life lessons and has calmed down a bit.
Funny thing is, Uncharted is more like Classic Tomb Raider than Rebbot Tomb Raider. I say make it more like Uncharted.
- Better actress
- Better story (or very little)
- Emphasis on exploring/puzzles
- Very little combat
- No RPG upgrade bollocks
- No open world bloat
- Challenging traversal (no magnetic jumps, you need to reach out to grab, etc)
Basically, the original game is what I want.
- Better story (or very little)
- Emphasis on exploring/puzzles
- Very little combat
- No RPG upgrade bollocks
- No open world bloat
- Challenging traversal (no magnetic jumps, you need to reach out to grab, etc)
Basically, the original game is what I want.
Don't try to be a hybrid between Uncharted and a really bad version of the Ubisoft Open World Games.
I don't consider straight paths with an open spot where you can find branches and fruit and sometime enemies very open world. The only thing that really makes it "open world" is you can quick travel to old spots, which really why ever go back except to pick up some collectible that in the long run means nothing.
I guess the series will get a break and will reappear 2-3 years into the next gen lifecycle with a fresh start.
They will copy what's popular at the time, have one suprisingly good game, then one that expands on the ideas of the first one but fails to make the next step. And then a third one that lacks the polish of the other games and fails to find a big enough audience.
They will copy what's popular at the time, have one suprisingly good game, then one that expands on the ideas of the first one but fails to make the next step. And then a third one that lacks the polish of the other games and fails to find a big enough audience.
Back to classic Tomb Raider hopefully. More exploration, puzzles and great atmosphere, very little human enemies if any at all. Tired of Uncharted Raider.
I hope the current Tomb Raider series don't take a long break or whatever. I'm a fan of the series. Although I haven't played Shadow of the Tomb Raider yet, but it's on my list of games to play.
I think they need to make the games less cinematic. The story in the reboot Tomb Raider games hasn't been interesting at all. But the gameplay is great.
I also think each new game should be a stand alone game. I'm not sure why the movie industry and the gaming industry want everything to be a trilogy.
But anyways, they should just build on what they already have with the current Tomb Raider games and make them less cinematic.
This might sound crazy, but maybe they can take some notes from Assassin's Creed Odyssey and add RPG mechanics to Tomb Raider. A big open world you can interact with and areas to explore. Lara can be hired by people to find treasure, artifacts, and valuable goods. She can also be hired to steal them. A main plotline would be required, but it shouldn't be super cinematic like the reboot Tomb Raider games. All of this with the fantastic visuals and gameplay would make for a great Tomb Raider I think.
Edit: Oh and the above post reminded me that there needs to be more enemy variety in the next Tomb Raider. I'd like to see more animals. I haven't really played the classic Tomb Raider games so I don't know what kind of enemies were in that game.
I think they need to make the games less cinematic. The story in the reboot Tomb Raider games hasn't been interesting at all. But the gameplay is great.
I also think each new game should be a stand alone game. I'm not sure why the movie industry and the gaming industry want everything to be a trilogy.
But anyways, they should just build on what they already have with the current Tomb Raider games and make them less cinematic.
This might sound crazy, but maybe they can take some notes from Assassin's Creed Odyssey and add RPG mechanics to Tomb Raider. A big open world you can interact with and areas to explore. Lara can be hired by people to find treasure, artifacts, and valuable goods. She can also be hired to steal them. A main plotline would be required, but it shouldn't be super cinematic like the reboot Tomb Raider games. All of this with the fantastic visuals and gameplay would make for a great Tomb Raider I think.
Edit: Oh and the above post reminded me that there needs to be more enemy variety in the next Tomb Raider. I'd like to see more animals. I haven't really played the classic Tomb Raider games so I don't know what kind of enemies were in that game.
Every open world game has "straight paths" to you next objective. Not every open world game is a sandbox game where you can do loads of stuff besides the main objectives. All three new TR games but the last two especially had "hubs" which are essentially "open worlds" in the same manner as, for example, TW3 had several hubs.