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Which game will sell more in its lifetime?

  • Super Smash Bros: Ultimate

    Votes: 1,236 47.6%
  • The Last of Us: Part 2

    Votes: 504 19.4%
  • Halo Infinite

    Votes: 103 4.0%
  • Something else will overtake all of these

    Votes: 106 4.1%
  • Pokemon

    Votes: 647 24.9%

  • Total voters
    2,596

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
I don't really want to get into the nonsense casual/core game distinction but the massive user base of the DS didn't just see higher sales for games like brain training. Look at NSMB or Mario kart.

Smash and Pokémon are just totally different franchises. Smash has been growing with every entry and ultimate was the perfect storm. Pokémon peaked with red/blue and has massively declined since then and remained stagnant regardless of what growth Nintendo has seen.

I agree that gen 8 has a lot going for it. It's the biggest step up a mainline Pokémon has ever seen in terms of HW by FAR. It will get a boost from Pokémon go and detective Pikachu and the switch user base is hungry for games.

But ultimate is going to outsell every Pokémon game of the last 20 years and maybe every one since red/blue. There is no reason to assume that Pokémon will definitely sell more.
Smash has only seen growth if you ignore the Wii U and 3DS games. And even then, talking about growth or decline is irrelevant when it simply has never shown being able to outsell a single Pokémon game ever.
Whereas there's evidence in the sales of past entries suggesting Pokémon is gonna sell more, there's no evidence showing Smash could sell more. It all boils down to a feeling that Smash, Odyssey, BOTW, Splatoon, and pretty much every other franchise can see this incredible growth but Pokémon won't, for some reason.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,369
Fair enough.

PS Now exists on PC for 2 reasons, to sell more subscriptions and help bring the PC audience to the PS ecosystem. Lets see, I am a PC gamer who never tried God of War but it came to PS Now, I subscribed, played the game but realize there are other games like HZD and Spider-Man that I am missing out, so I go and buy a Play Station to play them which brings a new audience and hence more sales.

Xbox GP, similarly helps in this way. The Metro Collection is on GP, I play it and realize there is a new Metro game out which I find interesting because of game pass and buy the game which I may not have tried if it wasn't for GP.
Ok, it sounded like you were saying that a PC gamer playing TLOU on PS Now should be considered a sale.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
I think PS4 has the potential to carry on selling at a reasonable rate even after the PS5 comes out, somewhat similar to how the PS2 carried on selling for 10 years.

But Yeah, what you said is not controversial and could be the case.
The PS2 had several factors in its favor to allow for that, such as another major successful console within its power bracket to keep receiving games, the Wii, it was brought down to a really cheap price as well, and the PS3 not doing as well and also losing a lot amount of money, giving Sony more of a reason to keep it around for a long period of time. The PS4 won't really have these sort of factors in its favor like the PS2 did

I'd say it's very likely to be the case
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
While TLoU2 will certainly be a cross-gen game and sell more than the first episode, Nintendo has always an unbeatable attache rate for their in-house game.
 

Kandinsky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,823
In the end, it will be something from Sony (say, Spiderman, TLou2, Horizon, GoW, etc), thanks to the aggressive and awesome pricing of their first party offerings. In overall profit/dollar spent it's going to be Smash, no doubt about it.
 

The_R3medy

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,843
Wisconsin
Smash seems like the easiest call of those listed, as most Nintendo Switch owners will buy it.

TLOU 2, while probably amazing, will likely do around GoW numbers (which still ain't bad)

Halo Infinite will also sell well, but sales will be impacted by Game Pass.

As the person above me wrote, though, probably Pokemon.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
Smash 20-25 million
Pokemon Gen 8 15-20 million
The Last of Us 2/Halo Infinite (on PS4/Xbox One) 10-12 million

It's too hard to guess how the Sony and Microsoft games will sell in the next generation, particularly as subscription services rise in importance. No matter what happens though Smash Ultimate will be the biggest of the group by a substantial margin
Can I ask why you think Smash could see a 7m to 12m increase in sales over Brawl while Pokémon 8th gen could see a decrease of 1m to an increase of 4m at best compared to Sun and Moon?

More accurately, Smash has seen growth if you combine the Wii U and 3DS games, which I think makes sense to do so. Given that, every Smash game so far has sold more than the last.
But Smash U and 3DS are different games? And XY and SM sold more than BW too. As another example, ORAS sold more than HGSS. And that's without combining sales of different games
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
I think PS4 has the potential to carry on selling at a reasonable rate even after the PS5 comes out, somewhat similar to how the PS2 carried on selling for 10+ years.

But Yeah, what you said is not controversial and could be the case.
ps2 kept on selling thanks to the disastrous launch of ps3. unless you expect ps5 to bomb out of the gate, the ps2 situation won't be repeated. ps4 will be killed off soon after ps5's launch just like ps3 was after ps4's launch.
specially if ps5 has BC and expanded streaming services, it's in sony's best interest to kill off ps4 as soon as they can.

In the end, it will be something from Sony (say, Spiderman, TLou2, Horizon, GoW, etc), thanks to the aggressive and awesome pricing of their first party offerings. In overall profit/dollar spent it's going to be Smash, no doubt about it.
/s? even with large discounts (the complete edition being 20 dollars) horizon can't keep up with botw, and that one is selling at full price.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
The PS2 had several factors in its favor to allow for that, such as another major console within its power bracket to keep receiving games, the Wii, and the PS3 not doing as well and also losing a lot amount of money, giving Sony more of a reason to keep it around for a long period of time. The PS4 won't really have these sort of factors in its favor like the PS2 did

I'd say it's very likely to be the case

How many games did the two platforms (PS2 and Wii) share?

Don't you think PS4 and Switch will share the indie and Japanese library for the foreseeable future?
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
TLOU 2 will have MP, the first was great and still have players

Naughty Dog multiplayer is niche as fuck. It's not going to be what elevates the game to the potential attention Smash and Halo are capable of with their multiplayer. There is a reason why ND can get away with its terrible monetization in its multiplayer for their games. No one pays attention to it.
 

kirbyfan407

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,112
I'm expecting it to be Smash, but I don't know if we know enough about Pokémon or Halo to rule those out. Both could do something that makes their releases huge events. TLOU2 will do well regardless, even if I'm currently unsure it'll hit the numbers of Smash.

TLoU was a bundled game a lot, so that 17 million number never sits with me.

On this note, I technically own Uncharted 4, but I've never played it and never wanted it. It just was included the cheapest PS4 Slim bundle by a long shot that I could find back in 2016, and there were no other bundles that had games I wanted. The sales results and comparisons really could come down to the way that each company handles their bundles and what options they give consumers, as a cheap bundle could really cause numbers to grow for any of these games.
 

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,709
Switch is a popular system and we just had a Nintendo Direct with a ton of announcements. This shouldn't be surprising.

Plus it's really weird conclusion from that other poster, as more people on era likely own a ps4 than a switch. Hell we just had a thread I think where more people game on the PS4 than PC or the switch.

The PS5 thread is going to be legendary.
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,566
But Smash U and 3DS are different games? And XY and SM sold more than BW too. As another example, ORAS sold more than HGSS. And that's without combining sales of different games

Uh, I didn't say anything about Pokémon. I was talking about Smash. And I think treating Wii U and 3DS as separate games is a bit disingenuous when talking about the growth of the series over time.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774

DeoGame

Member
Dec 11, 2018
5,077
Halo Infinite (if it lives up to the franchise and restores the old style) will have far and away more impact, players and profitability in the long run. Mark my words.

Xbox One + Scarlett + PC + GamePass are a force to be reckoned with. The player count will dwarf most other games provided it delivers.
 

Wracu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,396
TLOU2 being compared to those is a joke, right? It has absolutely no chance of being the best selling in that group.

It'll probably be Pokemon

It will probably triple Halo sales. But I agree that it's not going to beat Smash and/or Pokemon. It would still outsell Halo when that Franchise was at its peak sales, much less now.

It will
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
How many games did the two platforms (PS2 and Wii) share?

Don't you think PS4 and Switch will share the indie and Japanese library for the foreseeable future?
Sports games, Just Dance, I believe some shooters, like CoD, and I know there were games like Sonic Unleashed that were shared across both systems and others I don't quite remember off of the top of my head

They will share them until support shifts to newer systems but I don't think those will be enough of a reason to keep the PS4 around long term like there was for the PS2. The PS2 was also pushed hard out of necessity
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
ps2 kept on selling thanks to the disastrous launch of ps3. unless you expect ps5 to bomb out of the gate, the ps2 situation won't be repeated. ps4 will be killed off soon after ps5's launch just like ps3 was after ps4's launch.
specially if ps5 has BC and expanded streaming services, it's in sony's best interest to kill off ps4 as soon as they can.

PS4 won't be killed off soon after the PS5, this makes no sense given the large install base. Devs will continue to support the system and Sony will continue to manufacture them. The West might move in droves but cheaper PS4 units will find new homes in smaller countries.
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,562
My guess:

Smash > TLOU2 > Pokemon SKU A > Pokemon SKU B > Halo Infinite

Alternative:

Pokemon > Smash > TLOU2 > Halo Infinite


lol nice attempt at downplaying smash with future hypothetical bundles, when comparing it to tlou of all games
smash will have no problem shooting past 25M LTD. it's going to get close by 2020, and will sell until 2022.

right? there's some gamefaqs level bullshit discussion going on here where people are trying to pass off made up numbers and data and feelings as fact

Why are you so aggressive?
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
PS4 won't be killed off soon after the PS5, this makes no sense given the large install base. Devs will continue to support the system and Sony will continue to manufacture them. The West might move in droves but cheaper PS4 units will find new homes in smaller countries.
the huge userbase will continue to get games, and if there's BC devs have no reason to stop development for it, i'm just saying sony won't aggressively keep pushing it like they did with ps2 years after ps3 launched.

Why are you so aggressive?
i'm sorry you see my posts that way, i don't think i am aggressive at all
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
Uh, I didn't say anything about Pokémon. I was talking about Smash. And I think treating Wii U and 3DS as separate games is a bit disingenuous when talking about the growth of the series over time.
The point being discussed is that Smash is apparently seeing growth but Pokémon isn't. To see the alleged growth of Smash you have to combine two very different games together, while Pokémon has shown growth with individual entries. And that's without combining Pokémon games with their enhanced versions which are actually the same games with more content, which would make more sense.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
Sports games, Just Dance, I believe some shooters, like CoD, and I know there were games like Sonic Unleashed that were shared across both systems and others I don't quite remember off of the top of my head

Thanks for the info, I'll have to take a look.

They will share them until support shifts to newer systems but I don't think those will be enough of a reason to keep the PS4 around long term like there was for the PS2

Unless devs drop the PS4 soon after the PS5, which I doubt, PS4 will continue to sell. It's not going to do PS2 numbers but then again, no one thought PS4 would ever reach 90+ million 5 years ago.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
the huge userbase will continue to get games, and if there's BC devs have no reason to stop development for it, i'm just saying sony won't aggressively keep pushing it like they did with ps2 years after ps3 launched.

Sony first party will shift, Sony main focus on consoles sales will shift but this doesn't indicate the termination of PS4 manufacturing.

Let's see :)
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
Thanks for the info, I'll have to take a look.

Unless devs drop the PS4 soon after the PS5, which I doubt, PS4 will continue to sell. It's not going to do PS2 numbers but then again, no one thought PS4 would ever reach 90+ million 5 years ago.
No problem

Oh I'm sure the PS4 will continue to receive support. The PS3 / 360 continued to receive most major games till 2015 after all and neither had legs like the PS4 is showing. But their sales fell off a cliff very quickly after the PS4 / XB1 came out and, while I expect the PS4 to hold out much better, I expect for its sales to go down pretty hard as well, especially if there's backwards compatibility, which will make the transition much easier
 

Doskoi Panda

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,955
PS4 won't be killed off soon after the PS5, this makes no sense given the large install base. Devs will continue to support the system and Sony will continue to manufacture them. The West might move in droves but cheaper PS4 units will find new homes in smaller countries.
I could see Sony pushing hard for cross-gen versions of most applicable games (maybe even a few important first-party titles) during the PS5 launch window, so that they can position PS4 as a worthwhile and contemporary purchase in 2020 and beyond.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Sony first party will shift, Sony main focus on consoles sales will shift but this doesn't indicate the termination of PS4 manufacturing.

Let's see :)
i think the termination will come 12 months after the launch of ps5. you think it'll take longer?

You say that as it was something good, man I wish Nintendo was like Sony, I can buy Horizon for $15, yet Botw is $60 >_>, Spiderman for $40 and Mario Od. for $60, GoW for $40 and Fucking Donkey Kong for $60, it sucks lol
horizon would still be 60 if it could keep selling at 60. there's no reason for nintendo to cut the prices when the games keep selling. does it suck for the consumer? of course, the way every game being 15 at launch would be hella better for the consumer. does it make financial sense for nintendo to cut the price of mario odyssey or botw? not at all.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,932
Can I ask why you think Smash could see a 7m to 12m increase in sales over Brawl while Pokémon 8th gen could see a decrease of 1m to an increase of 4m at best compared to Sun and Moon?


But Smash U and 3DS are different games? And XY and SM sold more than BW too. As another example, ORAS sold more than HGSS. And that's without combining sales of different games
1. Lack of legs, new Pokemon core titles come out almost every year, while Smash only has one entry per console. A large reason why ORAS sold more than HGSS is because there wasn't Platinum in between them. (Also HGSS were more expensive than the previous games at that point, as it was the first one to be priced at $40 because of the Pokewalker, which hurt them relative to the other games for sale at the time)
2. Increase in price, the jump to $60 from $40, will make it a somewhat harder sell for some consumers
3. Fewer people double dipping, in part because of the increased price and in part because of the extra cost of owning multiple Switches (yes this one is very minor, maybe 100k max, but still it's something)
4. Pokemon Let's Go vs. Smash sales performance, which while not a perfect metric, is the only one we have for the series' performances on the Switch thus far.
5. Smash Ultimate is a far better package than any previous Smash game and all of the third party, and many of the third party, characters that first appeared in 4 significantly broaden its appeal over Brawl, while I don't expect that kind of huge leap in quality/interest for Pokemon. This is speculation at this point though, of course.

I could totally be wrong and Gen 8 might end up blowing Gens 4 & 6 out of the water, there's certainly been enough interest in the series for it to happen, but I expect relatively modest growth in comparison. There are several factors limiting Pokemon's sales growth while all the restraints that held Smash sales back in the past are now gone, although there are things like NSO that could arguably effect both of them.
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,118
Don't underestimate the impact of a big Halo MP experience on Twitch. Remember, games like Apex Legends, Fortnite didn't have install bases but Twitch made them what they are.

If Halo captures the Twitch audience which is more likely than the other games in the poll, it can easily sell 30 Million.

30 million copies on a console base of 40 million? I just don't see it. Even with PC sale included, it's still a console focused game, and with the most successful games in the franchise being developed by Bungie, I just don't think 343 have it in them to create something that captures an audience that large. But hey, it'd be cool to be proved wrong.
 
OP
OP
BladeRunner2099
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
No problem

Oh I'm sure the PS4 will continue to receive support. The PS3 / 360 continued to receive most major games till 2015 after all and neither had legs like the PS4 is showing. But their sales fell off a cliff very quickly after the PS4 / XB1 came out and, while I expect the PS4 to hold out much better, I expect for its sales to go down pretty hard as well, especially if there's backwards compatibility, which will make the transition much easier

With the mid-gen consoles, it is harder to know how long they will be supported especially if PS4 Pro drops to 299$. Sony would want to push the higher priced SKU, PS4 is going to probably stay on longer since its done well as a 1080p machine and gamers will still see value.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,296
1. Lack of legs, new Pokemon core titles come out almost every year, while Smash only has one entry per console. A large reason why ORAS sold more than HGSS is because there wasn't Platinum in between them. (Also HGSS were more expensive than the previous games at that point, as it was the first one to be priced at $40 because of the Pokewalker, which hurt them relative to the other games for sale at the time)
2. Increase in price, the jump to $60 from $40, will make it a somewhat harder sell for some consumers
3. Fewer people double dipping, in part because of the increased price and in part because of the extra cost of owning multiple Switches (yes this one is very minor, maybe 100k max, but still it's something)
4. Pokemon Let's Go vs. Smash sales performance, which while not a perfect metric, is the only one we have for the series' performances on the Switch thus far.
5. Smash Ultimate is a far better package than any previous Smash game and all of the third party, and many of the third party, characters that first appeared in 4 significantly broaden its appeal over Brawl, while I don't expect that kind of huge leap in quality/interest for Pokemon. This is speculation at this point though, of course.

I could totally be wrong and Gen 8 might end up blowing Gens 4 & 6 out of the water, there's certainly been enough interest in the series for it to happen, but I expect relatively modest growth in comparison. There are several factors limiting Pokemon's sales growth while all the restraints that held Smash sales back in the past are now gone, although there are things like NSO that could arguably effect both of them.
1. Pokémon games have legs though, XY even kept selling after Sun and Moon came out and in fact that prevented the latter from outselling the former.
2. That didn't hinder Let's Go's performance compared to other remakes, quite the contrary.
3. That has never been significant
4. Let's Go is a controversial remake whose graphical evolution was minimal
5. The jump in graphics for Pokémon alone will be huge coming from the 3DS and Let's Go, on top of having the novelty of being on a home console. It's not comparable to a normally bigger roster that comes with basically every sequel to a fighting game.

What are these limiting factors for Pokémon? If anything it's the one benefiting from being on the Switch the most as many people are used to snub handheld only games.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,008
I can't imagine anything other than Smash or Pokemon on that list. TLoU only reached that 17m mark by getting a remaster on another console, and being heavily bundled and discounted. There's no way of knowing if they will do any or all of those things with the sequel.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,991
London
No problem

Oh I'm sure the PS4 will continue to receive support. The PS3 / 360 continued to receive most major games till 2015 after all and neither had legs like the PS4 is showing. But their sales fell off a cliff very quickly after the PS4 / XB1 came out and, while I expect the PS4 to hold out much better, I expect for its sales to go down pretty hard as well, especially if there's backwards compatibility, which will make the transition much easier

Time will tell. Next gen is closer than ever.

I could see Sony pushing hard for cross-gen versions of most applicable games (maybe even a few important first-party titles) during the PS5 launch window, so that they can position PS4 as a worthwhile and contemporary purchase in 2020 and beyond.

I share your opinion. I can see Horizon Zero Dawn 2 being a cross-gen title.

i think the termination will come 12 months after the launch of ps5. you think it'll take longer?

Yeah, I don't see this happening unless there's a manufacturing overload.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,145
I mean... It's gonna be Smash, the only multiplayer, all-ages game on this list. Maybe Pokemon, there aren't many series' with the vacuum-pull of Pokemon.
Halo Infinite (if it lives up to the franchise and restores the old style) will have far and away more impact, players and profitability in the long run. Mark my words.

Xbox One + Scarlett + PC + GamePass are a force to be reckoned with. The player count will dwarf most other games provided it delivers.
Define "Impact" in this case, if you will.
I don't see Windows doing too much for Halo's sales. It might be an extra 25% if it's actually a good port and they do something to win over bitter PC players like myself.
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,225
It's gonna be Pokemon, as usual, but if you take Pokemon out the picture, Smash wins.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,576
The only reason is they are either sports games or racing games But can Super Smash or Pokemon do the same?
And this place really is Nintendo era, just look how many views and replies Nintendo related stuff can get.
... What? Smash sold over 30m on the Wii. Pokemon always does 15-20m.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
Judging by TLOU1 sales, Im going with TLOU2.. Im betting between PS4... and subsequently PS5 sales, its going to hit 15-20 million sales.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,039
Pennsylvania