White House considering ways to incentivize U.S. households to invest in the stock market.

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,310
The Stock Market is severely overinflated and due for a crash literally any day now. El Donaldo and co want to artificially inflate stock values even more by getting more people to invest so No. 45 can have a bulletpoint about stock values at his rallies and reelection ads.

Thom Hartmann and Rick Ungar have been covering this matter, that stock prices have become divorced from the actual true value of companies due to rich people using stock to horde their money away from taxes, inflating their value. At the rate things are going, a lot of companies are already publicly traded are going to turn out to be the next WeWork at the velocity the real economy is going.
People have been saying this for years now. The market will inevitably retract at some point, but that could still be years away for all we know. Especially with legislation like this and our current fed leadership.
 

mikeamizzle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
827
The Stock Market is severely overinflated and due for a crash literally any day now. El Donaldo and co want to artificially inflate stock values even more by getting more people to invest so No. 45 can have a bulletpoint about stock values at his rallies and reelection ads.

Thom Hartmann and Rick Ungar have been covering this matter, that stock prices have become divorced from the actual true value of companies due to rich people using stock to horde their money away from taxes, inflating their value. At the rate things are going, a lot of companies are already publicly traded are going to turn out to be the next WeWork at the velocity the real economy is going.
What are you talking about?
 

LukeOP

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,400
Investing is not a bad idea but this is completely irresponsible.

Before chucking money into the stock market, families should be prioritizing having a savings for emergencies and eliminating there debt. The government should be prioritizing resolving these issues before giving incentives to pump money into the stock market.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,416
The Stock Market is severely overinflated and due for a crash literally any day now.
We've been hearing this for a decade. It hasn't happened.
For those that plan and do have money to invest, the stock market continues to be attractive. Even when orange face has everybody worried, the stock market keeps reaching record highs. Why? Because there isn't anything better. Fixed income options like bonds are really small returns right now. Interest rates just aren't good enough compared to stock market returns. Some areas even have negative interest rates. Some consider putting their money in gold or crypto, but that's no guarantee of returns at all and mega risky, so stocks continue to be the best investing option by far.
The stock market is where your investment cash should be.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,847
I'm willing to invest.

I just don't trust anything that isn't 100% insured.
Not sure if you are kidding but you can opt for safer investment vehicles like a CD or savings account but they offer lower returns. My parents did this and although they are better prepared for retirement than most they probably lost out on millions.
 

HipsterMorty

Member
Jan 25, 2020
274
The Stock Market is severely overinflated and due for a crash literally any day now. El Donaldo and co want to artificially inflate stock values even more by getting more people to invest so No. 45 can have a bulletpoint about stock values at his rallies and reelection ads.

Thom Hartmann and Rick Ungar have been covering this matter, that stock prices have become divorced from the actual true value of companies due to rich people using stock to horde their money away from taxes, inflating their value. At the rate things are going, a lot of companies are already publicly traded are going to turn out to be the next WeWork at the velocity the real economy is going.
Yup. Stocks are way over valued right now. We’re currently in the longest bull market in history I believe. I was really expecting a recession in Trumps first term. The market is really defying the odds right now.

 

EnronERA

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,400
Would rather they increase 401(k) and IRA contribution limits.

I came in here to argue for this.

Americans do not save enough for retirement, and I'm talking about the ones that actually have the means to do so.

They've tried to tackle this several ways - raising the limits, automatic enrollments into 401ks, etc.

The average working person probably isn't savvy enough to do their own legwork on investing outside of their 401k, so It'd be easier just to raise the limits and be done with it.

You don't want these people investing in the stock market left up to their own devices - single stocks are the riskiest class of investment. Better to invest it into an index fund of some sort or a managed target retirement fund in your 401k.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,416
Yup. Stocks are way over valued right now. We’re currently in the longest bull market in history I believe. I was really expecting a recession in Trumps first term. The market is really defying the odds right now.
Investment money keeps going into the stock market because there isn't anything better. Fixed income like bonds suck right now. Gold and crypto is riskier than stocks. Real estate is super expensive. The stock market continues to see record highs because where else are people going to put their money? The stock market is so solid because that's where the money keeps going. If there were better investment options out there, I would be more convinced of a stock market fall. But there aren't better options. We see minor corrections then solid recoveries onto more record highs, again and again, year after year, because that's where the money is going.

After a decade of hearing doom and gloom about the stock market which has continuously proven to be 100% wrong, all that noise has done is convince people to miss out on the biggest investment opportunity in history. The popularity of ETFs provide the diversification to significantly reduce risk and the gains keep happening. Until something better becomes available, the stock market will continue to be the best choice for investment.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,551
Let's make a big bubble motherfuckers. "How can we force the market to rise, pumping up the 1% even further?"

Also an excuse for them to kill Social Security. Fuck off.
Social security is already doomed and we’re just propping up the corpse Weekend at Bernie’s style.

Being able to contribute tax free to a Roth would be a pretty sweet deal. Tax free in and tax free out in retirement.

There will be no bubble. This doesn’t change who will contribute or how much, just which account it goes into.
 

ameleco

The Fallen
Nov 2, 2017
491
Even if this program actually gave me money, I still wouldn't invest it if I had the choice. I'd have to throw it at student loans (or get around to starting that emergency fund). Come on now.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,095
Sounds like a bit like a Stocks and shares ISA in the UK only more specific as to where you can invest.

We can put upto £20k a year in them.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
13,071
London
Investment is how rich make money off poor saps who think the casino isn't rigged. You also need to have disposable cash before you can play.
Jesus. If you’d invested in the S&P500 back when it dipped in ‘18 you’d be sitting on 25% YOY returns.

With low-fee index funds it really can’t be any easier!

(Also in our socialist paradise capital gains aren’t taxed at all so stashing cash in investments is very lucrative for the average Joe)
 

Ikuu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,596
Some of you need to take a night off from shit posting and educate yourself about investing.
 

Shadybiz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,906
In theory, it's honestly not a terrible idea.

BUT, I would much rather see minimum wage increases across the board first. Not to mention putting a cap on both student loan interest AND tuition increases. As it stands, with federal student loan rates around 4.5%, college grads these days are under so much of a debt load that any extra money they get would probably be of better use paying off that debt, as opposed to investing in the market. Most of my loans were from 6% - 6.8%; you might not always clear that hurdle rate in the market, so any extra money I had just went towards paying those fuckers off. I DID contribute up to my employer match in my 401(k) while doing that, though. That match is quite literally free money, so you take advantage of that when it's offered.

They want to people gamble great. Trumps casino
Eh, in general, if you ever want to retire comfortably, you need to be investing, sooner rather than later. You don't have to go out and buy bitcoin or pork bellies...if you stick your money in index funds or target date retirement funds, over a couple of decades, you'll have a hell of a lot more than what you started with. Pensions are gradually going away. Firms now generally offer a 401(k) in place of a pension, so if at all possible, it's best to invest in that.
 
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Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,701
I've been tempted to dip some cash in a regular investment account on top of my Roth and 401k accounts. For the past few years all I've done is max my Roth contribution every year.

I guess maxing a Roth is not the same as actually investing, right? Haha....
 

Br3wnor

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,681
This doesn't do anything for low-income people.
That’s by design. Low income people are either voting for trump (poor rural/some suburban voters) or they’re likely not (poor urban voters), this is all about the middle class suburban voters in PA, WI, MI which are what will decide this election.
 

Ryu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
729
Oh of course. The whole stock market is a house of cards and the sooner everyone understands this the better. But gotta keep it up somehow, right? Jesus...
 

NervousXtian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,285
Investment money keeps going into the stock market because there isn't anything better. Fixed income like bonds suck right now. Gold and crypto is riskier than stocks. Real estate is super expensive. The stock market continues to see record highs because where else are people going to put their money? The stock market is so solid because that's where the money keeps going. If there were better investment options out there, I would be more convinced of a stock market fall. But there aren't better options. We see minor corrections then solid recoveries onto more record highs, again and again, year after year, because that's where the money is going.

After a decade of hearing doom and gloom about the stock market which has continuously proven to be 100% wrong, all that noise has done is convince people to miss out on the biggest investment opportunity in history. The popularity of ETFs provide the diversification to significantly reduce risk and the gains keep happening. Until something better becomes available, the stock market will continue to be the best choice for investment.
Yes, because the Fed has artificially kept rates low. And you haven't heard doom and gloom for a decade, that's bullshit. 2008 things crashed, the market has just got over inflated badly in the last 4 years or so. Stocks are overvalued, but the powers that be that control the large hedge funds will keep inflating the market for as long as they possible can until they know it's about to break and then make money shorting the fuck out of things.

The stock market is a scam for a very select few that control things these days. They get away with it like a giant ponzi scheme because they pay out the littles along the way.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,594
You gonna give us back our initial investment if the market tanks? Of course not. Hence why folks don’t invest.

People only invest wheat they can afford to lose. When your household is operating in the DEEP red, you don’t take that kinda risk. Want them to invest? Invest in them. Education, Healthcare. Get folks moving and working and making more money. Then they’ll invest.
Just to clear up something that I'm sure is a commonly held belief. You only lose if you sell your stocks and you didn't invest in a broad basket of funds like a money market account.


When your money is sufficiently spread out eventually the value of your shares will not only recover after a recession period but also exceed it.

Investing in stocks is best suited for younger adults because they can ride out that recession in ways the elderly especially in the 70+ range couldn't.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,594
It’s interesting how many people in this thread think investing is gambling. Feels like they’re conflating it with day trading, which you should definitely not do.
This is such a strange reaction by certain posters.

Throughout my life I have met older adults and peers who view this as gambling.


Right around I started going to college I was figuring out the inherent value of investing.


This perception isn't an era thing. The great Depression has done a major blow to the American psyche.


To be clear while I personally see this proposal as attractive in certain parts, I see it as absolutely terrible for the country.

Money management education is abysmal.

Most people even in the mid range of economic earnings are living pay check to pay check and are just as vulnerable to a recession as 70+ year olds.

Huge swaths of brokers especially in hedge funds are predators.

We cannot ever shift away tax dollars that we need for infrastructure weakened by placing those funds mostly in corporations.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
510
I agree on the move to democratize investment so that a wider range of people participate in and own companies, but you want to have a sound basis to make this effort -- it shouldn't be a "quick fix" for allowing the admin to go nuts with taxes, and it sure as hell should not be this corrupt and sleazy administration trying to implement it.
I can’t believe people still trust/give the benefit of the doubt to anything coming out of this administration.
Thank you. We're more than three years in and people still want to believe that this administration is trying to do anything productive for the American people?

Why don't we raise wages first and go from there?
 

DumpsterJuice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,110
California
I currently invest a lot into the stock market and don't need incentives from the government - I want the government to stay out of this. All they will do is manipulate the market if they get involved to make people feel like they are getting rewarded more than they should. It's not their place to do this.

How is this going to help the poor again? They need to scratch those incentives and do something to help the poor get by.

I don't need incentives because my incentive is getting money when correctly invest it.
 

Swig

Member
Oct 28, 2017
857
I came in here to argue for this.

Americans do not save enough for retirement, and I'm talking about the ones that actually have the means to do so.

They've tried to tackle this several ways - raising the limits, automatic enrollments into 401ks, etc.

The average working person probably isn't savvy enough to do their own legwork on investing outside of their 401k, so It'd be easier just to raise the limits and be done with it.

You don't want these people investing in the stock market left up to their own devices - single stocks are the riskiest class of investment. Better to invest it into an index fund of some sort or a managed target retirement fund in your 401k.
If you combine 401K and IRA limits, its like $26K per year.. I'm not sure upping those limits would really help many people. I'm not sure if this is some bullshit to artificially inflate the markets, but a policy like this is good for someone like me who isn't wealthy, but I'm not living paycheck to paycheck either. I invest in non-retirement funds to try to increase my wealth, but it's difficult to max retirement funds.

Yeah, this doesn't help the poor who are paycheck to paycheck, but it helps the middle class who aren't super wealthy increase their wealth. With a little research, you can invest in a relatively safe mutual fund. I didn't see in the article whether or not this applies across the board to any investment or if it's single stocks only.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,202
Racoon City
Most Americans bring in less than $50k a year, and a large chunk of families combined income is less than $50k.

I don't see how this helps lower middle class and low income individuals and families who struggle living check to check at all.

And it seems many of you aren't even thinking of them either.