White House considering ways to incentivize U.S. households to invest in the stock market.

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,091
Most Americans bring in less than $50k a year, and a large chunk of families combined income is less than $50k.

I don't see how this helps lower middle class and low income individuals and families who struggle living check to check at all.

And it seems many of you aren't even thinking of them either.
This gives them a very low bar to small investments for which they could see immediate returns. Even a $100 challenge on Robinhood is better than nothing.
 

NervousXtian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,274
Most Americans bring in less than $50k a year, and a large chunk of families combined income is less than $50k.

I don't see how this helps lower middle class and low income individuals and families who struggle living check to check at all.

And it seems many of you aren't even thinking of them either.
Because they don't give fuck all about them. This is just transparent Trump trying to keep Wall Street crawling higher because he knows the low IQ part of his base things the Economy = Dow Jones and the rich part of his base is able to reap the rewards of the markets rising.

The market never crashes until it crashes. Also historical data on current economies doesn't matter as that history is so short. In the grand scheme of things our current forms of Capitalism are toddlers at best.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,269
Portland, OR
It already exists - it's called the 401k, and most people aren't contributing the maximum anyway.

Perhaps the government can concentrate on something that will help more people - student loan relief/forgiveness would do way more economically than letting people throw a few more bucks into the stock market.
 

EnronERA

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,399
It already exists - it's called the 401k, and most people aren't contributing the maximum anyway.

Perhaps the government can concentrate on something that will help more people - student loan relief/forgiveness would do way more economically than letting people throw a few more bucks into the stock market.
you aren't getting that from this government, that's for sure.
 

Yamajian

Member
Oct 30, 2017
621
Rich folks: "How do we get lower middle class people celebrating the stock market and at the same time keep increasing income inequality?"

GOP: "Say no more fam"
 

Manfred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,854
Geneva, Switzerland
"A new batch of tax cut" ...

So it's the current tax rate that is stopping people to invest ?

Really ?

Because read like that it looks more like

- an electoral gift
- a perfusion to the upper part of the domestic economy
- A minor applications of "The empty-coffers policy", consisting into depriving the community from financial source of revenues, so plunging in into a deficit, and genuinely coming after and say "due to the debt crisis, we need to cut [what was attached to that source]".
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,405
This is rediculous and only serves to further increase income inequality. The first thing I think about when everyone talks about how good Trump has been for the "economy". Is, "well that's great, but what about the other 80-90% of people".

52% of all Americans own stock. As in own anything at all.

But the real figures, even as of 2013 which I'm sure has gotten even worse is that the top 10% income bracket owned 81% of all stock, followed by 11% in the next 10% (middle class) and finally 8% amongst the bottom 80%. So I'd say it's a good time to stop treating the stock market as an indicator of overall financial health.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,872
Most Americans bring in less than $50k a year, and a large chunk of families combined income is less than $50k.

I don't see how this helps lower middle class and low income individuals and families who struggle living check to check at all.

And it seems many of you aren't even thinking of them either.
Precisely this.

And for the vast majority of those earning 50k-200k it is only a way to entice scamming those individuals out of their money as well, to help the elite get more assets.

This is a net negative deal for America as a whole, but a few will dupe themselves into thinking it helps them personally.
 

Tom Penny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,007
I need to invest more... I just have my 401k... I don’t know what I feel about this.
Do you mean you have liquid money sitting idle making nothing? I made that mistake for a long time. You don't lose money but you certainly won't be making money. You can always start low and put like 20% invested as you learn. As most people say just pick various index funds and you cover the whole market instead of trying to find the next Apple Amazon etc..those stocks are already in those funds.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,194
Racoon City
That should be a given with some folks around here. "Progressive" ERA too has its share of "temporarily embarrassed millionaires".
it’s wild bc ppl are arguing oh they can just drop $100-200 it doesn’t have to be much... like hello idiots, that IS much for low income people. You take $100-200 away from them and you’ve screwed them, that’s rent, bills, payment they now can’t pay
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,054
Do you mean you have liquid money sitting idle making nothing? I made that mistake for a long time. You don't lose money but you certainly won't be making money. You can always start low and put like 20% invested as you learn. As most people say just pick various index funds and you cover the whole market instead of trying to find the next Apple Amazon etc..those stocks are already in those funds.
How do you recommend that I go about this? I would like to look into something soon. Would I be able to do it on my own with a Ameritrade or something similar?
 

Caturro

Member
Dec 9, 2017
88
Best way to incentivize investments in the stock market for lower to medium class people is to raise wages and mass educate the population. Period. Any other way is more than likely a grift, even more so coming from this administration.
 

Yaboosh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,223
How do you recommend that I go about this? I would like to look into something soon. Would I be able to do it on my own with a Ameritrade or something similar?

Throw any money you won't need for the next 5+ years into a total market index fund. VTSAX or something similar.

Very very very easy to do on your own. Not for saving for something in the short term though.
 

Tom Penny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,007
How do you recommend that I go about this? I would like to look into something soon. Would I be able to do it on my own with a Ameritrade or something similar?
Fidelity, Ameritrade, Schwab, Robinhood..a bunch don't even charge a fee anymore to trade. Vanguard is the most well know index / ETF funds. An ETF you invest in an entire sector like biotech, industrial, oil etc. instead of one company in that sector if your into that.

Starting early is because you want compound your money..I lost a lot of years staying idle in the market but luckily I've had a 401K with the same company a while for that part of my money.


And say you were getting 2% in a money market..which most aren't it takes you 35 years to double your money 0_o

 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,252
It's also funny they are doing this now when it will benefit the people less because eventually we will have it go back down to 15-20k. That will be the time to buy.
 
Jun 10, 2018
2,157
The amount of people here considering investing as "gambling" or "going to the casino" is deeply troubling. It's one thing if you don't have the available funds to invest, but if you're able to contribute to 401k and aren't, then well you have no one to blame but yourself when you're having difficulty with retirement.

Just because you don't understand a thing doesn't mean you have to demonize it. At least research what a friggin' index fund is.
What amazes me too is that....there is a website RIGHT now (Vanguard) catered primarily towards inexperienced investors that - should you have the time - has available a plethora of detailed in-depth information to give anyone a basic run down of what investing actually entails.

Hell, they even virtually spell it out the type of investing which is more skin to gambling.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,473
Texas
How is this getting past the House of Representatives? Or is this one of the things we have discovered can just be rammed through via other means, rendering Congress useless?
 

CrunchyFrog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
628
raise wages so people have more income to invest rather than use for daily needs? provide health care and other safety nets so people feel more comfortable not hanging onto every cent because their lives do depend on it?


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The problem is people are extremely short-sighted so they see the initial hit to their yearly reports and not the massive amount of growth they'd get down the line if the % of people investing jump nearly 10%
This is my main issue with this. In a void it's fine, but it really doesn't help anybody in low-income brackets, and it once again takes tax-payer money and puts it into corporate pockets. It would be far better if, say, the $10k was conditioned on only being invested in smaller entities/businesses, incentivizing riskier bets that would help grow the overall market/competition. You know, stir some ACTUAL economic growth instead of continuing to concentrate it into the few biggest pots.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
778
Fidelity, Ameritrade, Schwab, Robinhood..a bunch don't even charge a fee anymore to trade. Vanguard is the most well know index / ETF funds. An ETF you invest in an entire sector like biotech, industrial, oil etc. instead of one company in that sector if your into that.

Starting early is because you want compound your money..I lost a lot of years staying idle in the market but luckily I've had a 401K with the same company a while for that part of my money.


And say you were getting 2% in a money market..which most aren't it takes you 35 years to double your money 0_o

It's mind boggling to me just how fucking stupid most people are about saving for retirement. Seen so many people cash out their 401(k) after switching jobs because short term gratification trumps all.

People are living longer. Contrary to popular belief, old people are pretty passionate about living. Chances are you'll still want to enjoy life when you're 65. Anyone who is able to save for retirement (even single-digit percentage of salary) and chooses not to is being myopic as hell.

Everyone should read "Simple Wealth, Inevitable Wealth" by Nick Murray.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,395
Fidelity, Ameritrade, Schwab, Robinhood..a bunch don't even charge a fee anymore to trade. Vanguard is the most well know index / ETF funds. An ETF you invest in an entire sector like biotech, industrial, oil etc. instead of one company in that sector if your into that.

Starting early is because you want compound your money..I lost a lot of years staying idle in the market but luckily I've had a 401K with the same company a while for that part of my money.
It has never been easier and cheaper to invest in a diversified ETF fund. Trying to juggle individual stocks can be tricky, but ETFs make it super easy.
Those that do have some extra cash to invest should be putting it into stocks. ETFs are the easiest way.
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,395
It's mind boggling to me just how fucking stupid most people are about saving for retirement. Seen so many people cash out their 401(k) after switching jobs because short term gratification trumps all.

People are living longer. Contrary to popular belief, old people are pretty passionate about living. Chances are you'll still want to enjoy life when you're 65. Anyone who is able to save for retirement (even single-digit percentage of salary) and chooses not to is being myopic as hell.
No matter how low the risk, just mention the word "risk" and people use it as an excuse to not invest. It's totally understandable if a low income person has nothing to invest, but there are plenty of people who could invest for the their retirement and they don't. Even small amounts add up.
 

Sidebuster

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
849
California
it’s wild bc ppl are arguing oh they can just drop $100-200 it doesn’t have to be much... like hello idiots, that IS much for low income people. You take $100-200 away from them and you’ve screwed them, that’s rent, bills, payment they now can’t pay
Any time you try to tell them, it seems their eyes glaze over and they start day dreaming about stonks and forget all about what they were even talking about, snap out of it then start talking to each other about the how easy it is to make more money with more money! It's so easy I don't understand why nobody is doing it! *eyes glaze over again for some reason*
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,054
Throw any money you won't need for the next 5+ years into a total market index fund. VTSAX or something similar.

Very very very easy to do on your own. Not for saving for something in the short term though.
Fidelity, Ameritrade, Schwab, Robinhood..a bunch don't even charge a fee anymore to trade. Vanguard is the most well know index / ETF funds. An ETF you invest in an entire sector like biotech, industrial, oil etc. instead of one company in that sector if your into that.

Starting early is because you want compound your money..I lost a lot of years staying idle in the market but luckily I've had a 401K with the same company a while for that part of my money.


And say you were getting 2% in a money market..which most aren't it takes you 35 years to double your money 0_o

thank both of you. Looking into this now
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,597
Say what you want about the guy but this seems like a good idea. The market is absurdly good right now.
investing in something at record highs sounds like a good idea to you?

And in this case investing your future livelihood and wellbeing in a record high stock market that the president has directly put his thumb on the scales via dangerous and recklessly low interest rates?

Beanie Babies, aka Boomer Bitcoins would be smarter right now.
 
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rathesungod

Member
Jun 8, 2019
20
investing in something at record highs sounds like a good idea to you?

And in this case investing your future livelihood and wellbeing in a record high stock market that the president has directly put his thum on the scales via dangerous and recklessly low interest rates?

Beanie Babies, aka Boomer Bitcoins would be smarter right now.
I can't speak to bitcoin, but this is the greatest bull market in all of history, if you have the money why wouldn't you invest?
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,597
I can't speak to bitcoin, but this is the greatest bull market in all of history, if you have the money why wouldn't you invest?
While sensible people will include stock or related instruments as part of an investing and retirement strategy there are a few serious a few reasons to be extremely cautious:

1. this is being pitched as an alternative to traditional pensions and to help bouy or boost an already unnaturally swollen market

2. It’s always wise to divest your investments to spread risk and reduce potential harm.

3. This won’t help the Americans who most need help and on the contrary will continue the spreading gulf between the rich and the poor.

4. Literally every single boom in stock market history has been followed by a bust and a recession has been predicted by even optimistic economists as inevitable.

5. 401k as a replacement for company or government retirement plans is being pushed as a cost saving measure for the private sector- a sector that also pushes for tax reductions that exacerbate the problem.

6. The Trump administration and its chief economic officer Steve Mnuchin have literally no idea how the economy works and believe they’re insulated from negative consequences by wealth and power and have shown almost sociopathic disregard for the middle and working class. One of his chief economic influences and most senior is a tv stock market pundit who told Americans to stay in the market and in housing as the Great Recession was seen as inevitable and imminent by people he knew.

7. Donald Trump has frequently made statements and policy decisions that suggest he thinks the stock market is the economy.
 
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rathesungod

Member
Jun 8, 2019
20
While sensible people will include stock or related instruments as part of an investing and retirement strategy there are a few serious a few reasons to be extremely cautious:

1. this is being pitched as an alternative to traditional pensions and to help bouy or boost an already unnaturally swollen market
2. It’s always wise to divest your investments to spread risk and reduce potential harm.
3. This won’t help the Americans who most need help and on the contrary will continue the spreading gulf between the rich and the poor.
4. Literally every single boom in stock market history has been followed by a bust and a recession has been predicted by even optimistic economists as inevitable.
5. 401k as a replacement for company or government retirement plans is being pushed as a cost saving measure for the private sector- a sector that also pushes for tax reductions that exacerbate the problem.
6. The Trump administration and its chief economic officer Steve Mnuchin have literally no idea how the economy works and believe they’re insulated from negative consequences by wealth and power and have shown almost sociopathic disregard for the middle and working class.
7. Donald Trump has frequently made statements and policy decisions that suggest he thinks the stock market is the economy.
There are many legitimate points here but I disagree with 6 at the very least. Beyond that the S&P is up 30% in the past year. The average American should be able to profit off that. Not just the rich.
 

feline fury

Member
Dec 8, 2017
539
I've noticed that Americans tend to shy away from investing globally and have a large home bias.
I shy away from foreign markets because those funds tend to have higher expense ratios (which hurt even more when US equities are outperforming foreign ones). I still have about 10% of my 401k in an international fund but I get tempted to liquidate it for the above reasons.
 

Tom Penny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,007
investing in something at record highs sounds like a good idea to you?

And in this case investing your future livelihood and wellbeing in a record high stock market that the president has directly put his thumb on the scales via dangerous and recklessly low interest rates?

Beanie Babies, aka Boomer Bitcoins would be smarter right now.
You can't time the market. There is no bad time to invest in good companies. You can dollar cost average so if the market is bad you get a better price. If the alternative is a bank account and you choose that as your good idea I don't know what to tell you.
 

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,597
You can't time the market. There is no bad time to invest in good companies. You can dollar cost average so if the market is bad you get a better price. If the alternative is a bank account and you choose that as your good idea I don't know what to tell you.
If you’re talking about a person who can afford it right now I don’t disagree- but the thread is about an insincere government attempting to outsource American retirement and small-s social security.

the actual average American - not the median income or somewhat fabulist 50s ideal of a nuclear family- can’t afford to do anything meaningful with any market conditions and can’t survive even a couple of missed paychecks. People who can comfortably afford those risks over time are almost invariably doing so.

I’m personally benefiting from the current situation but I think it’s disastrous to ask the bottom half of the population to consider the stock market as anything other than a slow burn aspect of a long term plan is worrying in the big picture. If this were say W or Clinton I wouldn’t be adding that aspect.
 

DanGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,295
There are many legitimate points here but I disagree with 6 at the very least. Beyond that the S&P is up 30% in the past year. The average American should be able to profit off that. Not just the rich.
The average American should be able to benefit from massive corporate profits without having to play the stock market. We should be incentivizing better compensation and higher taxes to fund government programs and benefits. This plan would be a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 

mikeamizzle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
794

I've noticed that Americans tend to shy away from investing globally and have a large home bias.
It’s not just Americans, it’s all people with wealth from all over the world. The US stock market is the only game in town right now to make money. You can thank the BOJ and ECB for instituting negative rates for that.
 
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rathesungod

Member
Jun 8, 2019
20
The average American should be able to benefit from massive corporate profits without having to play the stock market. We should be incentivizing better compensation and higher taxes to fund government programs and benefits. This plan would be a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Hey I agree but we're not getting that. At least not soon, better to profit if you can anyways.