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Who else prefers the light saber fights of the Star Wars Prequals ?
- Thread starter Compass
- Start date
I'd like to hear more about the objective superiority of the prequel fights
No
The duel between Luke and Vader is still the best saber fight in the franchise bar none
Like it isn't even close
The duel between Luke and Vader is still the best saber fight in the franchise bar none
Like it isn't even close
I completely hated the fight scenes in the prequels. It was one of the reasons I feel the soul of Star Wars was lost in those movies. Star Wars to me was always like a mash up of gritty space western mixed with samurai influence and a dash of classic pulp science fiction. I get that a fully trained Jedi would be capable of fighting like that. But it was just way to over the top, especially when the originals had a more fencing style of sword play.
If the prequels had saber fights that were as tight and well executed as the gun fights were in John Wick, I think that's more like where I want to see Jedi at their peak. What we got comes off as dancing with swords to me.
So far the ST hasn't been much better, the forest fight was great but the Snoke throne room fight has really loose choreography, especially with the guys in red, that it detracts from the scene for me.
So far the ST hasn't been much better, the forest fight was great but the Snoke throne room fight has really loose choreography, especially with the guys in red, that it detracts from the scene for me.
I'll add that even the Darth Maul fight missed an important point about lightsaber duels.
In my opinion the best part of that duel is when those silly force fields come up and Qui-Gon Jinn drops into a meditative state to calm himself, and Darth Maul walks back and forth like a caged animal ready to strike.
It showed a real difference between the Jedi and the Sith. A real difference between the Light and Dark.
Then it went back to the wuxia style fights. What was really missing from that duel was the fighting styles. Maul should have been always going for a killing blow, with Obiwan and Qui-Gon defending against.
Every blow Maul made should have been leading to a kill blow that was barely blocked. While the two Jedi held him at bay locking for a non-lethal shot to bring him in.
Instead it was the typical wuxia battle. Which are great action scenes but, can fail to display the weight of a battle in favor of showing skill.
In the actual movie Darth Maul acts like the Jedi have done some great wrong the Sith must avenge. But when he fights them, he fights them like a Jedi. Defending against every move never going for a killing blow, except for the one time it works for the story.
And that's fine. But imagine a Darth Maul v Obi-wan and Qui-Gon duel, where the two Jedi, having not faced a Sith ever, who believed the Dark Side had no champions and had been practicing lightsaber techniques out of tradition. Like a Karate Dojo.
Suddenly had to face a true scion of the Dark Side.
One who makes every attack with his dual-bladed lightsaber a killing strike. Every parry an effort, ever dodge a near miss. Imagine what that fight would look like.
Hell, I would have Darth Maul even reveal his double bladed Saber until he had no choice.
Qui-Gon attacks, Maul parries, but Obi-wan attacks seconds latter from behind and the second blade comes our parrying Obi-wan's strike. Showing the difference between the Master striking true, and the apprentice striking easy.
It would show the difference between the Jedi and the Sith, not just in philosophy... But in how they fight.
Maul would still kill Qui-Gon, and Obi-wan would still win. But you would see the deadly truth of the Sith. That with a Sith you are either with them, or in their way. And you would see with the Jedi that life itself was the most important thing.
Some of the novels in this era explored that, but you don't get points for showing it in the homework.
In my opinion the best part of that duel is when those silly force fields come up and Qui-Gon Jinn drops into a meditative state to calm himself, and Darth Maul walks back and forth like a caged animal ready to strike.
It showed a real difference between the Jedi and the Sith. A real difference between the Light and Dark.
Then it went back to the wuxia style fights. What was really missing from that duel was the fighting styles. Maul should have been always going for a killing blow, with Obiwan and Qui-Gon defending against.
Every blow Maul made should have been leading to a kill blow that was barely blocked. While the two Jedi held him at bay locking for a non-lethal shot to bring him in.
Instead it was the typical wuxia battle. Which are great action scenes but, can fail to display the weight of a battle in favor of showing skill.
In the actual movie Darth Maul acts like the Jedi have done some great wrong the Sith must avenge. But when he fights them, he fights them like a Jedi. Defending against every move never going for a killing blow, except for the one time it works for the story.
And that's fine. But imagine a Darth Maul v Obi-wan and Qui-Gon duel, where the two Jedi, having not faced a Sith ever, who believed the Dark Side had no champions and had been practicing lightsaber techniques out of tradition. Like a Karate Dojo.
Suddenly had to face a true scion of the Dark Side.
One who makes every attack with his dual-bladed lightsaber a killing strike. Every parry an effort, ever dodge a near miss. Imagine what that fight would look like.
Hell, I would have Darth Maul even reveal his double bladed Saber until he had no choice.
Qui-Gon attacks, Maul parries, but Obi-wan attacks seconds latter from behind and the second blade comes our parrying Obi-wan's strike. Showing the difference between the Master striking true, and the apprentice striking easy.
It would show the difference between the Jedi and the Sith, not just in philosophy... But in how they fight.
Maul would still kill Qui-Gon, and Obi-wan would still win. But you would see the deadly truth of the Sith. That with a Sith you are either with them, or in their way. And you would see with the Jedi that life itself was the most important thing.
Some of the novels in this era explored that, but you don't get points for showing it in the homework.
also obi-wan is still super agile and careful after qui-gon dies
Compare that to Luke going apeshit and cutting off Vader's hand
Also even if the duel was perfect it was interspersed with scenes of kid Anakin accidentally blowing up a ship
I think it's a problem for almost all the movies where the fights are cut up with other stuff going on. Even when it's good other stuff, I don't like it. TFA I think was only cut in the middle of the saber fight, which is just a step below ideal.
I still think the finale of the original is the best in the series partly because it isn't 2-4 battles happening at once.
This has been touched on a few times already in the past couple pages. The likes of Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin, Dooku, Qui Gon etc, are all JEDI MASTERS. They were instructed by Jedi teachers, and later honed their skills under a Jedi Master. They have decades of experience. Obviously Lucas also wanted to showcase more/flex what Jedi could do. Hence the acrobatics and more fencing, fast paced like combat. We're getting to see the Jedi Order and Jedi masters really for the first time on screen in a more complete sense, as full trained as warriors. Then Order 66 happened....
There's certainly nothing wrong with preferring the prequel lighter saber combat. They are the most enjoyable one's for me. But Rey is not trained in lightsaber combat. She is somewhat skilled at using a staff, as she's had to learn to defend herself from a very young age. Of course she's going to fight in a sloppy and amateurish fashion with a lightsaber. Kylo is not fighting for his life in most of this early encounters, and he hasn't even finished his training.
Kylo was sent to Luke when he was around 10 years old, as stated by Leia and Han. He hasn't spent nearly as much time as other Jedi in lightsaber instruction, on top of Luke, who is a non-traditional Jedi who is training him. He was with Luke for 8-9 years, then destroyed Luke's temple.
He's obviously is a better duelist now than when he left Luke, but of course the likes of Obi-Wan, Anakin et al, would wipe the floor with him. He's emotionally unstable, and lets his anger overwhelm him. He's not nearly as skilled as Jedi masters in lightsaber combat, but look who he is fighting and toying around with. Not Jedi.....Rey, Finn etc.
Apparently you can be super agile no matter what according to the Prequel movies as long as your in a duel.
Count Dooku is super agile can do flips off of platforms. Yoda doesn't need his cane when he's doing a lightsaber duel.
Whatever Force powers are at work when Jedi and Sith are fighting each other, they need to keep it going all the time, because its the Elixer of Youth.
Well until a New Hope, then Obi-wan can't flip around like he used to, even though Yoda could do it at 780 and Dooku could do it at 70.
Darth Maul was cool, but a lot of that was his look + the dual lightsabers + the music.
Other than that, it's all trash. Yoda buzzing around like a fly is a goddamn embarrassment. I actually massively prefer the OT duels over that shit.
I wish we could one day see a sword duel that is slow and methodical with two strong opponents pressuring each other but also being goddamn prudent and careful, and focusing on the seme more than flashy flailing. It'd probably be called "boring", though, but I'd be all over that.
Other than that, it's all trash. Yoda buzzing around like a fly is a goddamn embarrassment. I actually massively prefer the OT duels over that shit.
Agreed.
I wish we could one day see a sword duel that is slow and methodical with two strong opponents pressuring each other but also being goddamn prudent and careful, and focusing on the seme more than flashy flailing. It'd probably be called "boring", though, but I'd be all over that.
I like the over the top lightsaber battles; in the latest trilogy we might call them lightbats the way every one is swinging them..
That's because they were amateurs. Kylo was a padawan who never finished his training and Rey had never dueled anyone before, ever. The fights in the prequel trilogy were all between people who've been trained in actual combat styles. Of course it's intentional.The saber fights seem to have more finesse in the prequels. It was as if it really was an art. I can't help but notice the roughness of Klyo and Rey, almost amateurish. Not sure if thats intentional or not. I don't know. Obi, Anakin, Yoda would have cleaned streets against these fools. Even Darth Maul would have made Kylo sweat.
vs
Serious question. How has no one ever accidentally cut off a limb or worse while wielding these things?
Your holding a slim tube that has a crystal that can be focused to create a energy weapon that can destroy a planet.
By pressing a button it creates a steam of plasma nearly 3 feet long, in a constant form.
The amount of energy that a lightsaber puts out is insane. Your are holding a fusion reactor in your hand. It's going to push against you.
I disagree. I feel Obi-Wan v. Maul in Rebels is at least a close runner up, if not better.
I vastly prefer the sequels. They have much more oomph behind them.
Obi vs. Ani was good though.
Obi vs. Ani was good though.
There is no depth and weight to the Prequel fights, they look good in the same way coreographed swimming routines look good.
The force. This is also why worrying about Kylo Ren cutting himself with his cross guard was dumb. No one ever cuts themselves with their own lightsabers, but how many people have had their hands lopped off?
He flings it at a switch to open the doors behind him............................
It's why only force users/advanced cyborgs ever wield them. To everyone else it's just a really cool way to loose your limb or cut yourself in half.
I didnt realize we were counting animated stuff
I still havent caught up fully but so far the stuff is much better than the live action prequels usually. It's just as flashy but from what I've seen at least they seem to be trying to hit each other
I like them for their own merits. But I still prefer the more hefty feeling of the OT and sequels.
Ah. Said franchise, not films, so figured you were. My apologies.
This. It makes more sense to spin them around like crazy, the only weight would be in the handle anyway.
Its not just the Jedi who aren't decent.
why do they pose waiting for Rey to hit them? And why does Rey swing down low if the opening is up high? And why the one person swings after passing a ducking Kylo? And why is everyone waiting for a turn to swing?
My favorite part is when the guys on the left just run away after getting deflected.
This was amazing on the first watch in theaters but rewatching it... does not hold up at all lol.
It would seem the actord couldn't move fast enough for the choreography to work? (I mean, Rey and Kylo)
It was amazing the first time in the theater, so...
It's a cropped, truncated gif of the actual shot, running slower than full speed and missing frames, looping endlessly so you have time to look for every flub.
I don't have a problem with making the duels more fancy, but they lacked punch. When Luke is swinging on Vader in ROTJ, I feel that. It felt like they were putting on a show in the prequels, not actually fighting. If they can tone down the fancyness a little bit, enough to get some umph in there, then we'll have the perfect mix in my opinion.
Fencing vs sword fighting. I kind of like fencing because it made sense. I don't mind any of them specifically. I just don't like the current series fights mainly because of the throne room fight. And how over overly "heavy" they played it as. I mean the guard are literally getting blocked and throwing themselves away from glancing blows etc. They aren't that heavy of swings, the mass behind a saber is pretty low.
OT post first film is the best kind of weight imo. I want that but with a little more force usage and maybe a little flourish.
OT post first film is the best kind of weight imo. I want that but with a little more force usage and maybe a little flourish.
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If you want real embarrassment, look no further than the OT
No matter how you spin it, this is shit.
None of the movies show any form of realistic sword combat and nor fucking should they when the people fighting have advanced reflexes and can jump 10 feet in the air.
Love the canon explanation of it being a lost art, hope it returns in the next trilogy, F the haters.
That was shit. This however is not.
Post the first film it got significantly better.
1. They used the actual actors and not stunt performers, so they probably were just not able to execute the choreography fast enough for everything to work perfectly.
2. If you want a fancy shot of 6 people with weapons attacking 2 people with weapons at the same time, and the 2 people win this thing, somebody has to fake out. In every lopsided fight that the good guys win, you will find some background baddies who just stand around/jump around aimlessly and react to hits they never actually received.
3. Stuff like this (choreography of background characters) is simply not meant to be put under scrutiny in an endlessly looping gif. This excludes the staff-dude center-left that just yoyos back on his own, that's too obvious and should have been done differently.
Could it have been better choreographed? Yes. Absolutely. I would never call that scene "good" from a fight-choreography standpoint because of the same reasons you listed.
Did they value impressive visual storytelling over perfectly executed and realistic combat? Yes. They wanted hose sweeping shots of everybody involved in the fight with the actual actors and without many cuts/shaky-cam to hide spotty choreography.
Do the blows still look (mostly) more earnest, real and deadly than in the PT? Yes anyway.
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Because it's a choreographed fight not meant to be watched in a slowed down gif. Most action scenes look goofy when slowed down and looking at a sub-30 second loop.
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Maaaannn. That would've been cool. Why did you have to curse me with this idea. I also liked the meditation bit, but this would've been way more interesting.