I'd put Naruto himself on this list. You say Sakura's character was defined by Sasuke? Sasuke was Naruto's only crush. I hate the 3 leads pretty equally.
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Who is the worst character in Naruto? (poll inside, full series spoilers obviously)
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
- Start date
I had thought about writing a more critical post in response here, but I think I"ll just leave it at suggesting that if one is only able to see a singular world in terms of insight into these kinds of things, then perhaps it explains the myopia present in these threads and the limited and narrow reach of the discourse.
Bro stop. this is Naruto it isn't rocket surgery my man it's not that hard to understand there's nothing Narrow or open-minded needed to understand a simple battle manga. Say what you are going to say not what ever that is
Kishi should've replace Sasuke and Naruto with Neji and Rock Lee.
You don't need 'rocket surgery' to think about what you're consuming on a level beyond 'that's terrible' or trash or whatever other limited, reactionary perspective. If these are the only conclusions one can come to, the only world they're able to inhabit in how they perceive what they're taking in, then I don't think it's as easy for people to understand as you're saying because that kind of reactionary criticism is narrow and only reflects on pure distaste and nothing more. Understanding doesn't come out of mere distaste or displeasure with something, it comes from something deeper, something I don't think most are willing to put in the effort to think about - but are willing to rhetorically imply that these consensus building reactions reflect on some deeper truth.
I don't think that is limited to shonen threads though, it's just the internet and how people comment on media in general.
I think it's evident in the post I wrote, but If you have further questions about anything specific, then drop me a private message.
Easily Sakura. Most women in Naruto are completely hopeless but Sakura is on a league of her own
If you read my previous posts, I did share some of my thoughts on the nature of the subject, and almost always do in these threads, trying to engage in discourse outside of 'x is terrible or trash, 'the writing is bad' etc'. I've written about some of the nuances of the characters before and in this thread. Most people aren't interested in talking about these characters outside of a reactionary perspective though. So yeah, I am dismissive of pure distaste being the basis of the conversation, because ultimately it's a discursive non starter. If you think it's disrespectful to call that out, then okay, but I don't feel the need to respect writing that can't offer any thoughtful analysis but is rhetorically positioned as authoritative. I don't even think it's 'my' level that anyone needs to rise to - to come out of the self indulgence of mere distaste doesn't require any singular figure to rise to. In fact, I wouldn't want someone to be like me in particular, part of what I'm getting at here is that these threads are essentially just people saying the same thing over and over and it's not interesting - but there could be something more to be said about what people aren't letting themselves think about. When you're so hyper focused on how terrible something is, I think you limit your ability to offer an insightful or unique perspective. I am suggesting that there are ways to think about these things outside of the narrowly perceived locus that is so often indulged in on this and many topics regarding various media.
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I don't agree with any of the poll's choices.
I've always loved Sasuke and was emotionally attached to his journey. Obito was epic. Danzo's story was quite sad, how he died showing shades of gray. I even like Kabuto and felt like he was a victim of circumstance.
The character I never care about was Kaguya. Because she never talked. She's a prop to fight and nothing else.
I've always loved Sasuke and was emotionally attached to his journey. Obito was epic. Danzo's story was quite sad, how he died showing shades of gray. I even like Kabuto and felt like he was a victim of circumstance.
The character I never care about was Kaguya. Because she never talked. She's a prop to fight and nothing else.
They're all the same level of bottom of the barrel awfulness, I want to vote for all of them.
Why can't I vote for all of them?!
Ah screw it Obito it is.
Why can't I vote for all of them?!
Ah screw it Obito it is.
I can't in good conscious pick Sasuke because as frustrating and insufferable he is to everyone around him and the fact that everyone continues to like him despite him doing everything in his power to make himself an enemy to everyone, by the end he did have a point. In fact, I'd almost argue by the end of the series his and Naruto's respective motivations are the only ones that have any sort of weight to them.
I mean, the dude experienced the trauma of having his entire clan murdered by his beloved brother, was consumed by vengeance enough to betray his comrades for power only to learn later that the entire massacre of his clan was sanctioned by the Hokage himself using Itachi's fanatical devotion to the village to carry it out, but they did this only because the Uchiha were themselves planning to betray Konoha to gain power for themselves, but wait, turns out this is all just the continuation of a generations-old blood feud punctuated by periods of war and bloodshed that shows no signs of every stopping. And to top it all off, when he learns all of this he's expected to just kind of be okay with it because endless civil warring between ninja clans is just part of the business and that's how we roll y'all.
So I forgive him at least a tiny bit for looking at everything that happened, especially the circumstances regarding the horrific state-sponsored genocide of his entire clan (and the fact that there are all-powerful godlike beasts with the power to warp reality or whatever), and deciding that Itachi was full of it and saying "to hell with it all" and going full scorched earth. So it actually meant something when at the end after fighting Naruto and seeing how determined he was that Sasuke finally relented and decided to place his faith in Naruto's determination to change the ninja world for the better.
And believe me, it makes me sick writing all of that but it's true.
As for the actual answer, it's Obito. Because Obito is basically the same character as Sasuke and has all the same flaws, except where Sasuke is frustratingly dense and stubborn, Obito is just a damn idiot who let himself be manipulated Anakin-style because his not-girlfriend died.
As for the others, I quite like Sakura but I hate the way the story treated her. Kaguya barely counts as a character so picking her would just be cheating. Orochimaru is/was at least threatening and an interesting character in his own right. Danzo is a complete tool but I think that was the point?
I mean, the dude experienced the trauma of having his entire clan murdered by his beloved brother, was consumed by vengeance enough to betray his comrades for power only to learn later that the entire massacre of his clan was sanctioned by the Hokage himself using Itachi's fanatical devotion to the village to carry it out, but they did this only because the Uchiha were themselves planning to betray Konoha to gain power for themselves, but wait, turns out this is all just the continuation of a generations-old blood feud punctuated by periods of war and bloodshed that shows no signs of every stopping. And to top it all off, when he learns all of this he's expected to just kind of be okay with it because endless civil warring between ninja clans is just part of the business and that's how we roll y'all.
So I forgive him at least a tiny bit for looking at everything that happened, especially the circumstances regarding the horrific state-sponsored genocide of his entire clan (and the fact that there are all-powerful godlike beasts with the power to warp reality or whatever), and deciding that Itachi was full of it and saying "to hell with it all" and going full scorched earth. So it actually meant something when at the end after fighting Naruto and seeing how determined he was that Sasuke finally relented and decided to place his faith in Naruto's determination to change the ninja world for the better.
And believe me, it makes me sick writing all of that but it's true.
As for the actual answer, it's Obito. Because Obito is basically the same character as Sasuke and has all the same flaws, except where Sasuke is frustratingly dense and stubborn, Obito is just a damn idiot who let himself be manipulated Anakin-style because his not-girlfriend died.
As for the others, I quite like Sakura but I hate the way the story treated her. Kaguya barely counts as a character so picking her would just be cheating. Orochimaru is/was at least threatening and an interesting character in his own right. Danzo is a complete tool but I think that was the point?
If you got rid of Sasuke, like a lot of people are saying, you're almost completely eliminating the theme of the show: forgiveness. The entire show was leading up to a final clash where he could see he still is loved by people. Even if he lost his way for a while. All the tramua he experenced, and it's no wonder he was afraid to let people in and was intimidated by Naruto and Sakura.
Every villain in the show has a shade of gray in them and is just a product of world wronging them.
Sakura came to my mind immediately. What is she even doing in this story again? She was supposed to be one of the new generation of Three Ninja, but it never felt like she was ever part of plot. I can forgive convoluted motive, but supposedly being one of the mcs in the story and never really felt like one is a major failure
No one is saying get rid of Sasuke people are saying they come a better character. In order to have a character like Sasuke you must make him more likeable more understanding etc. Because so much of the story center on him it doesn't work because he is so much of a dick and a crazy man for must of it really doesn't make sense for anyone to care for him.
And with the villain part not every villain needs to be grey person with a sad back story. It is cool to have people who just suck.
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Which should have been possible prior to Sasuke's Retrieval Arc.
Yeah it should have been possible, kishi just drops the ball went it came to it. And tries to save it later on but at that point it feels.
As much as I dislike Sasuke and Sakura I have to go with that Kaubto/Orichimaru; They are fucking war criminals that get a mulligian because they did ONE good thing during the war.
Kabuto was basically the 2nd in command in the war and his reanimations(including Madara) and zetsu clones probably killed a good number of those 40,000....and all he receives is being monitered lightly and giving a squadron of Uchiha clones...
and Orichimaru literally killed two Kages....and now he's like the fun uncle in Boruto....
Kabuto was basically the 2nd in command in the war and his reanimations(including Madara) and zetsu clones probably killed a good number of those 40,000....and all he receives is being monitered lightly and giving a squadron of Uchiha clones...
and Orichimaru literally killed two Kages....and now he's like the fun uncle in Boruto....
It's tough the series had so many terrible characters.
Sakura is always the one who stands out due to the love obsession, I even remember that bit where she is approached by another villages soldier who wants to know if they would go out. She declines and mentions she's waiting for someone.
Sasuke is your typical problem spoilt child, you have to wonder without the deus ex machina of the Sharigan how many times he would have been killed or lost a battle.
Naruto though I think might be the worst. He started as a child who was cursed with the embodiment of evil. Hated by everyone except a few who helped him rise above the hatred. This helped him form friends, team and respect along with defeated one of the villages worse enemies, Pain. He was no prophecy. Then he was a prophecy, with extraordinary power than before who the whole worlds fate was in his hands.
So I go with Naruto.
Sakura is always the one who stands out due to the love obsession, I even remember that bit where she is approached by another villages soldier who wants to know if they would go out. She declines and mentions she's waiting for someone.
Sasuke is your typical problem spoilt child, you have to wonder without the deus ex machina of the Sharigan how many times he would have been killed or lost a battle.
Naruto though I think might be the worst. He started as a child who was cursed with the embodiment of evil. Hated by everyone except a few who helped him rise above the hatred. This helped him form friends, team and respect along with defeated one of the villages worse enemies, Pain. He was no prophecy. Then he was a prophecy, with extraordinary power than before who the whole worlds fate was in his hands.
So I go with Naruto.
I don't agree with this. I think it's perfectly fine to have a character take the spotlight who isn't likeable and is challenging to understand.
I also think it makes perfect sense for people to care about him. Naruto and a few others see him for what he really is beneath the vengeful side, a vulnerable and damaged kid, capable of caring for others. Sasuke knows this himself too, he can see this part of himself and that's why he tries to sever it, because he feels that it won't let him accomplish his vengeance. He ultimately can't though, because that's too much a part of who he really is. Consider moments in the story where his vulnerability seeps through or can be seen if even a little, like after Itachi dies and Sasuke is resting, he's in a fog and seems somewhat confused - then Obito comes in and tells him the real story about Itachi and primes him for further vengeance, swooping in at just the right time, after Sasuke accomplishes his original goal and is left in the wake, suspended in the haze of not knowing who he is anymore It's the kind of thing that doesn't need heavy explanation because it can be seen through the emotions the characters display. I think Kishimoto's somewhat simple art style can evoke the emotions he's going for quite well.
And just like Obito, For Sasuke that part of himself that cares can't be taken away. Naruto sees their humanity and that's what he respects and tries to work through. He's basically like a natural trauma counsellor. The empathy with which Naruto and others approach some of their adversaries is part of what makes them the seeds of revolution in the shinobi world, the change they bring is that they are ultimately rejecting the previous ways of past generations, where cold utility reigned as a guiding force in their society. Naruto and others see that empathy towards outcasts and defense of those you care about can be held at the same time.
In terms of villain backstories being sad - Straight evil is just not what Naruto is going for, for the most part. Naruto is about the society of the ninja villages and how they're corrupt and often cruel regimes. This kind of stuff doesn't come about through plain evil, it's too complex for that and Kishimoto wanted and succeeded at telling a story about how the society they lived in created it's own worst enemies because it was an inherently damaging system that exploited children. This couldn't be done if there were a lot of plain evil villains. The world of Naruto is murky and unclear, it's a world of shadows, not a brightly lit world where good and evil are simple and defined easily. The systems in place in the shinobi world come about for a myriad of reasons, on a scale of bad and good.
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But there really isn't challenging about Sasuke to understand. For example
In for order for Naruto and Sasuke to work and to have Naruto and friends to cares so much about him require for us the reader to view them as best friends. Which doesn't happen . In part 1 Nartuo and Sasuke aren't friends or aren't the level of friends needed for part 2 to work.. lLike they don't spend that much time together they go one one arc and that is it. Sure they see it other occasionally but that not enough for it to work later on in the series. Especially when sasuke becomes the crazy man. Like look at gonna and killa friendship that is relationship is on a who different level then whatever nartuo and Sasuke have. This is a major problem that ksishi try to fix by creating all these flashbacks in part 2 showing that Nartuo and sasuke we're always secret best friends or something.
And for villain backstory part. It works for like one or two dudes but when every villain is the same thing it just loses its meaning. Sometimes it is cool to just have a bad dude not ever dude needs to have this 15 min flash back showing why they bad. And is the ninja world a bad place sure but rarely does Naruto ever show us that , it just tell us .It wants to have this dark and complex world but it never commit to it.
They don't need to be best friends for Naruto and others to care like they did. The connection Naruto feels is depicted as something more or different than 'time spent = level of closeness'. It's not dissimilar to how when people fall in love, the feelings they have don't come out of simply the amount of time they spend with someone, it can come from just deeply liking something about the person or a bond that can't be explained. Love, in this sense, isn't limited to romantic love and is something that can happen in other circumstances. Naruto's character is defined as someone who carries and works towards revolutionary love. Naruto feels how he does because the experience he's had makes him relate to others who are damaged in a similar way. He has an innate understanding of how isolation can affect someone, because he lived through it himself. Naruto is basically gifted in the area of empathy, it's a core part of him that bridges the gap of time spent with someone and allows him to understand and feel for them.
Villains - It isn't every villain though. There are characters like Madara and Orochimaru who were too far gone for Naruto to get through to. Orochimaru basically attained some form of enlightenment through his pseudo death and probably saw his past schemes with Konoha as petty in the grand scheme. I mean, he's basically immortal - something that I would think changes one's perspective. There are other villains like Kakuzu and Hidan that weren't in it for anything other than their selfish or fanatical desires.
Ultimately, I don't think the world of Naruto could be coherent with many villains who were just plain evil. It's not that kind of world.
I don't know what you'r talking about with Naruto not showing us that the shinobi world is a bad place, it shows it plenty. Like almost every character is defined through how it is not a good place. It is committed to showing this the whole way through really. On the most base surface level, children are being trained to fight and die. It's a world constantly at war. And this is something that is easily seen as in the premise of the series. There's plenty of other aspects to how messed up the shinobi world is throughout the rest of the series.
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The issue with Part 1 Sasuke is the tone is incoherent because Kishi tried to combine a tragic character with a bad boy character. Sakura and Ino fawn over Sasuke because he's dark and mysterious but he's dark and mysterious because his brother killed his mother... It makes no sense and it's creepy as shit.
Sasuke in Part 2 just doesn't make much sense or have much of a coherent set of goals. He's strapped to the Idiot Ball and makes whatever decision the plot demands.
Sasuke in Part 2 just doesn't make much sense or have much of a coherent set of goals. He's strapped to the Idiot Ball and makes whatever decision the plot demands.
